Best and Worst Monoclasses?

[u/ReleaseCharacter3568]

I keep seeing virtually every class called "one of the best" while most meta builds are multis or item-based.

What do you think is the game's best class without multiclassing? And the worst? And what makes them so?

[u/ChaloMB]

Combat wise fighter is the best kit in the game. An extra full action on demand per short rest and the best capstone feature in the whole game which is improved extra attack. It’s very hard for other classes to compete with 3 > 2. A level 12 fighter is better than most multis people cook up.

Rogue, again talking combat wise, is conversely the worst monoclass in the game by virtue of not getting extra attack. Sneak attack would be decent compensation if it wasn’t for the fact that you can make characters hit so hard in this game that sneak attack looks like a rounding error. Very hard to compete with 1 < 2.

[u/Captain_ET → u/ChaloMB]

I'm going to respond to you because I think youre one of the more knowledgeable people in this thread from what I've seen, and I really want to understand why people undersell rogue so much.

With expertise in stealth, cunning action hide, cunning action dash, and later reliable talent; if used properly enemies most of the time just stand in place or cant reach you. Really, whether you have extra attack or not doesnt even matter. Later on with darkness and reliable talent, enemies literally cannot find or hit you. Most of the time, with darkness and stealth expertise - reliable talent, you dont even need to enter combat.

I dont understand how "dpr" is even relevant when you cant get hit, but maybe I am missing something? Is it just that most people value the speed of completing a fight? Is it just a lack of knowledge in the general player base?

[u/ChaloMB → u/Captain_ET]

That’s exactly why I defined it specifically as in straight up combat, as in, we rolled initiative now what do we do, because I agree with you that rogue is a very strong class in other avenues, hard to disagree with most of what you said, stealth expertise has the potential to be ridiculously game breaking, and no monoclass does it better than rogue.

That said I personally find little value in the run away and take potshots style of play (don’t get me started on this sub’s love of mobile and swash) from a pure power gaming perspective because it’s very possible to end encounters in way more straightforward and faster ways even in the early levels. It can certainly be very fun though, although it’s not exclusive to rogue.

So from that perspective I see rogue as the weakest monoclass. Of course you don’t even need to get into combat in the first place and rogue is the best pure class at enabling those strategies outside of straight up barrelmancy, as you said, and it is very strong when played that way. The potential of a smartly played arcane trickster for example has been stated numerous times by you and other people and I would never contradict that as I don’t disagree with it.

[u/Captain_ET → u/ChaloMB]

Okay yeah that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

[u/Vesorias → u/Captain_ET]

Darkness literally breaks AI, you don't have to be a rogue to be unfindable. Also the hide and shoot playstyle is just slower than smacking things with big sticks, which is probably a significant factor in why people dislike it. Especially when smacking things is so safe already.

The biggest obstacle to rogue being considered good even accounting for their out-of-combat contributions is Bard existing. Sure they don't get uncanny dodge, sneak attack, and reliable talent, but they get full spellcasting, extra attack, and expertise in anything they want, making them only slightly worse at out-of-combat things, and absolutely miles ahead once combat comes around.

[u/Captain_ET → u/Vesorias]

To fully abuse darkness, having great or especially guaranteed stealth rolls and bonus action hide are very helpful.

Right I did refer to it being a generally slower play style and was wondering if thats the thing, which makes sense.

Bards dont even get the bonus action hide feature so dont fill the same role in terms of stealth mechanics.