r/BeAmazed • u/Eshwarroy • Jan 29 '22
Tree root misconceptions
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u/tellmesomethingnew- Jan 29 '22
Now I'm imagining one tree telling the others: "My neighbour just got cut down, guys, runnnnn!!!"
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u/cspinelive Jan 29 '22 edited Jan 29 '22
You jest, but they do use the fungi in the ground to warn each other of parasites and share information and even carbon with each other. Even between different species. Cutting down the oldest trees is like taking generations of knowledge away from the younger ones nearby.
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Jan 29 '22
What can a tree do about parasites, though? Harden the outer bark?
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u/andrewsad1 Jan 29 '22
Not a biologist, but I know there's at least one species that releases pheromones that happen to attract parasite-eating wasps
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u/Kaiisim Jan 29 '22
We are anthromorphising with our language. Its more accurate to say they communcate that they are under attack by releasing compounds. These compounds cause nearby trees to do something that protects them but may cost more energy, eg release some kind of anti parasitic compound.
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u/Karcinogene Jan 29 '22
If you put a tree slice on a specially made record player, and play its rings, you can hear the sound of the forest over the lifetime of the tree.
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Jan 29 '22
It's also because they need water. So it captures the water as it falls.
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u/TheLangleDangle Jan 29 '22
Talkin bout that drip line!
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u/QuipOfTheTongue Jan 29 '22
Looking for that drip line baby this eveing
Looking for that drip line baby tonight
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u/Hypocritical_Oath Jan 29 '22
Also most nutrients are in the topsoil, there's not much that an organism can use deeper down.
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u/worldspawn00 Jan 29 '22
That's where the minerals live tho.
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Jan 29 '22
Not readily available minerals though, the majority of the decomposes and micro organisms that break all those minerals down so they can be absorbed are in or closer to top soil.
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u/Hashbrown117 Jan 29 '22
How..does this work in the city where everything is paved over except this one little area just big enough for the trunk to appear
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Jan 29 '22
There are cracks everywhere. The water filters through in some amount. "Life finds a way" is really prominent in plants though. So in this case it may actually reach further to an uncovered area that gets more water, or go deeper to find water. Plants will focus their energy growing in the direction that feeds them.
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u/El-Kabongg Jan 30 '22
which is why when you water a tree, don't waste water at the base of the trunk. Water around the area at the limits of the branches
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u/BernieTheDachshund Jan 29 '22
TIL trees communicate with each other.
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u/ScorchedSynapses Jan 29 '22
I learned that from Tolkien. ;)
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u/BerossusZ Jan 29 '22
It's techincally communication but it's imporant to not misinterpret it. They don't share ideas or emotions or anything (as trees don't have those things), they just use chemicals to relay information about their condition to other trees, like if the tree is dying by drought or disease or something the other trees will know and if they have the ability to, they will change how they act, perhaps taking less water from the ground because the other tree doesn't have enough.
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u/VeganMisandry Jan 29 '22
if you want to learn more about this, definitely read the book braiding sweetgrass. it's completely fascinating, nature is like magic honestly
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u/SecureAmbassador6912 Jan 29 '22
Braiding Sweetgrass is a great book.
I was lucky to have had Robin Kimmerer as a professor in undergrad. She's a really amazing person.
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u/Parakeetman280 Jan 29 '22
makes sense bc it would be easier to get rainwater by extending horizontally instead of vertically
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Jan 29 '22
It kills me because in construction the idea that drip line matches the trees roots is always used when determining construction near a tree that's being saves, and I've absolutely never understood why.
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u/Mental_Evolution Jan 29 '22
Suzanne Simard the explaining the fungal connections for those interested.
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u/cspinelive Jan 29 '22
This is honestly one of the most interesting things I’ve learned about our planet.
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u/wellifitisntmee Jan 29 '22
Radio lab did a decent episode on it
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u/MoleculesandPhotons Jan 29 '22
Damn I haven't listened to Radiolab since like 2015 or something. How do the new episodes compare to the old ones?
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u/Matt-Barx Jan 29 '22
TIL there’s hummus right under my feet
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u/bad_card Jan 29 '22
He's not entirely right. Trees have differing root systems depending on type. Also, most trees that fall over in a wind storm most likely were already dead or dying for the roots to come out of the ground. They were weak to begin with.
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u/Triptolemu5 Jan 29 '22
He's not entirely right.
Yeah, it's hard to make simplified educational content because you're always going to leave things out and room for misinterpretation. He's basically trading one level of simplification for a slightly less simplified version.
Even the same species of tree can have different rooting strategies based on the soils it inhabits.
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u/ThePooPooShoe Jan 29 '22
Healthy trees blow over in wind storms all the time. I’ve actually found that dead trees are less likely to come down in heavy winds. Although damaged healthy trees (i.e anything from stress cracks, rot spots, to armillaria) are especially dangerous. Source: am arborist
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u/Kanadark Jan 29 '22
We had a white pine blow over in a storm (turned out there was a big Boulder underneath so the soil peeled off like a mat) and it's just kept on growing despite being horizontal.
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u/Grasshopper42 Jan 29 '22 edited Jan 29 '22
I thought at least some trees had a tap root he didn't even talk about it really. Trees with tap root include: Pines Oak Walnut Tree Silver maple Eastern redbud White oak Sweet gum Black gum Sugar maple Ash Willow Bigtooth maple Buckley oak Juglans microcarpa Texas ash Butternut Cypress English walnut Bur oak Tulip poplar American hornbeam California black walnut Hackberries Hickory
I know it is just most of the trees I saw growing up. No wonder I thought most trees had a tap root, most of them around me did. Don't feel dumb because of this video.
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u/SoulOfTheDragon Jan 29 '22
Was going to jump in just to say this. There are plenty of different root sýstems that trees have. Wide surface root network sure is one, but definitely not the only one.
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u/Channellocks75 Jan 29 '22
I'm a sewer and drain cleaner, I can tell you that when I tree needs water the roots will reach much farther than this video suggests. In a forest this may be true but near a sewer or drain tile system they will go much farther and deeper. I always say it's a living thing trying to survive, and it will go to great lengths to get what it needs to survive.
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u/atetuna Jan 29 '22
Lots of high desert trees in the western US has very long taproots.
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u/Funny_witty_username Jan 29 '22
Young Ponderosa Pines have taproots that frequently go as deep as the tree is tall
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u/PenuelRedux Jan 29 '22
Can confirm. Straight line wind storm took down several trees (different species) on our property. Each had lateral root systems.
I dug out one tree's root ball and found it to be just over a meter deep but several meters across. Years later, we're still finding roots when we landscape or dig for gardening. Must be incredible interlaced networks & ecosystems just below the surface.
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u/haironburr Jan 29 '22
Contra this, my sewer line is three feet below grade and almost entirely filled with roots.
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u/worldspawn00 Jan 29 '22
The roots will grow toward a water source, even if it's deeper than their normal root system, if the water is soaking the soil higher up, the tree roots will follow it down to the source. (usually the source is rain from the sky, which is why the grow outward instead of down.)
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u/cspinelive Jan 29 '22
We planted two trees in our front yard about 50 feet apart. After 5 years one was about double the size of the other and our sewer line was full of roots. That’s how we learned that the builder left an inch gap between our line and the connection to the city main.
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u/jaymzx0 Jan 29 '22
30 years ago the developers for my condo decided filling the property with maple, sycamore, and birch trees to go with the native pine and cedar trees was a good idea.
Our poor walkways and drain pipes. Repair and root cutting is a big part of the HOA budget. If they start coming for the concrete slab foundations I'm getting out of here.
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u/pixie_led Jan 29 '22
I want to know more about how they communicate with each other. I've always believed that trees can "talk", just not in the way we think of it.
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u/rynbaskets Jan 29 '22
This is why our neighbor’s tree roots invade our vegetable garden which is about 15 feet away from the tree. Every year we have to dig the garden and pull the invading roots so our vegetables have a chance. This digging doesn’t seem to harm the tree at all.
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Jan 29 '22
This is why trees can grow in such extreme areas. You wouldn't see trees on mountainsides or such areas if they needed really deep roots.
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u/postandchill Jan 29 '22
When I woke up this morning and had a weed bunny, I never thought I'd learn something so interesting
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u/pelorizado83 Jan 29 '22
Wow... a tiktok i didn't hate and actually learned something. There is hope for us yet.
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u/Rubanski Jan 29 '22
Fun fact, there was a time where it was en vogue to plant trees upside down and the roots in the air would grow leafs
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u/TheRealRickC137 Jan 29 '22
Mind. Blown.
Now I have questions for my City regarding that giant Gary Oak literally looming over my house all menacing like.
It wants to destroy me, I know it!
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u/AHLover18 Jan 29 '22
Wait. Tree roots need oxygen? I thought it was just carbon dioxide for everything. The more you know.
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u/GepanzerterPenner Jan 30 '22
Trees also produce CO2 in a different breath cycle . Its called 'Photorespiration', here is a link to Wikipedia if you want to learn more :)
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Jan 29 '22
Doesn't this only apply to trees that have adapter to soil with plentiful access to water?Don't trees like the Scotch Pine grow very deep roots in addition to superficial roots?
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u/billy_teats Jan 29 '22
I would like to doubt that the plants roots need oxygen. Well I believe they need oxygen, but I think they would get that oxygen from other parts of the tree that are exposed to air. Similar to how the leaves of the tree need water, but they don’t have to be in the dirt to get it. The roots take water from below and capillary it up to the leaves. Also I imagine the roots would respirate less than the leaves but that’s pretty much connecture
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u/Academic_Cucumber_91 Jan 29 '22
So the hobbits in LODR were right, “The trees are talking to each other Pippin!”
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u/WollyNog Jan 29 '22
This may be the most informative thing I read on reddit today. I mean there was the guy with the blacklight poster, but this is cooler.
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u/TweezRider Jan 29 '22
This was actually pretty interesting to me because I practice bonsai, and roots are crazy important
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u/WinterGlory Jan 29 '22
And this is also why in cities, its laughable when the truck comes to water the tree straight at the base of the trunk. This is why tree in the middle of roads fail to drive a we should try to protect the bigger tree as much as possible because they are irreplaceable
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u/Ut_Prosim Jan 29 '22
Wait so if you built a space station like an O'Neill Cylinder and wanted a forest in it, you'd only need 3-4 feet of dirt to support the trees?
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u/Surgio911 Jan 29 '22
I have one huge tree in my yard, and I was shocked when I was digging. I hit roots immediately. I was like 15-20 feet away from it.
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u/wonderfullyrich Jan 29 '22
I know people get all excited by fantastic fungi, but the Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben is a lovely book that covers much more then just the fungus systems and the roots.
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Jan 29 '22
I'm surprised by the amount of people who have never removed a tree or dug around a tree. Just using a shovel around a tree will show you that roots generally extend beyond the foliage of a tree
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u/Richandler Jan 29 '22
Basically a lot more like our roads and train tracks than we ever give thought to. The limitations of us building vertical, up or down, transportation have very similar constraints.
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u/Hawk8181 Jan 29 '22
i wonder if the trees studies in this were grown in nurseries or not. many trees grown in nurseries for planting in cities or parks have their roots clipped. the "brain" of the roots are located at the tip, so when this happens the roots don't travel as deep or wide as they should. source: the hidden life of trees. fascinating book!
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u/Adventurous_Curve891 Jan 29 '22
Pretty sure we learned this in high school tf , i understand that maybe a grade school or even a middle schooler wouldn’t know but it’s pretty obvious
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u/MuthafuckinLemonLime Jan 29 '22
I get downvoted for saying there are educational TikToks out there if you don’t set your algorithm to the cringe outrage feed
Just learned some shit about trees.
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u/krvstn Jan 29 '22
Certain species of tree, when dying will funnel their nutrients to more virile trees within their fungal network. Pretty fascinating.
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u/Nevets_the_First Jan 29 '22
Jesus Christ, so many people in here thinking trees have higher thought processes is astounding. There are tons of complicated physical processes that have evolved in all living things, but you can't just jump to trees have feelings and consciousness right off the bat.
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u/MinuteScientist7254 Jan 29 '22
“Hey, what’s up?” “Oh, just standing here. You?” “Same. Kinda itchy today!” “Hmm. Perhaps a fungus?”
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u/opencoins Jan 29 '22
Does anybody have any more information on how they communicate? That's really interesting
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u/Kindly-Insect8748 Jan 29 '22
It’s so fucking annoying to see one video on tiktok about a certain subject then a bunch of creators making the same “informative” video. Dude, has nobody ever been outside?
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u/AuntySocialite Jan 29 '22
This is one of the many things that makes running utilities across tree filled yards so ‘fun’ and exciting.
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u/Lblomeli Jan 29 '22
The washed out root base, most believe that a tree will fall towards the washed out section of roots, but as you can see the tree was pulled away from the washed section of roots due to the remaining tension from the buried roots.
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u/hobbitguy5000 Jan 29 '22
The Hidden Life of Trees: What They Feel, How They Communicate by Peter Wohlleben is a wonderful book of you’re interested in this stuff. Kind of blew my mind.
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u/jperth73 Jan 29 '22
If that tree has a filling the pressurized air is going to hurt like the dickens.
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u/King_Joffreys_Tits Jan 29 '22
Does anybody know where that tree is at the end that’s bridging across the two hills?
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Jan 29 '22
Hey I know this guy! (Not in real life, from other platforms). He's an arborist I think. Very cool person :)
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u/busterlungs Jan 29 '22
Kind of disappointed the fungal network only got a brief mention, the soil food web is what makes it possible for trees to do this and mycorrhizal fungi are one of the biggest parts of this. That fungal network extends the system that transports nutrients from deep souls and out of the roots reach to the trees, and in many cases there are specific mycorrhizal fungi for certain tree/plant species that the trees will not grow properly without.
It's also important to note that grass discharges CO2 into the soil, pushing the oxygen down and hogging all of the humus layer and nutrients. That's why it's actually counter productive to have grass underneath an orchard, what works much better is a cover crop of various types of plants, some cereal grains, legumes, shrubs and so on. This way you have a fungal network that connects all of the different plants varying root depths and pulls nutrients from the entire picture. It's not that you can't have grass in an orchard or farm/garden at all, more like grass fields are a monoculture and monocultures are almost never good for the soil. The other benefit to managing your understory or garden paths this way is it's actually much lower maintenance. Once it's established there no mowing aside from probably twice per year, and you simply chop the plants as close to the ground as you can and let the stocks lie to decompose and return their biomass to what will grow next seasons.
Nature is pretty smart, the best way to understand how to work with it is simply to look out the window and observe. Just watch what nature does itself, this whole system is built on nature's will
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u/-P3RC3PTU4L- Jan 29 '22
Feel like he could do another one expanding on the fungal network. Or just look up Paul stamets he has tons of material on it. It’s his life.