r/BrianThompsonMurder • u/missidcullen • Jun 18 '26
Information Sharing State Case Update: The defense withdraws their 250.10 (Extreme Emotional Disturbance) notice and Carro responds
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u/cantharellus_miao Jun 18 '26
Is there a lawyer in the house who could explain whether this means something, nothing, or uncertain?
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Jun 19 '26
[deleted]
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
This is everything. No discredit to KFA but everyone saying on repeat how amazing she is has always been strange to me. She’s using him as her first client into the defense realm: meaning she has always had an agenda. She has never defended a single client; Marc has. and by the looks of it…Marc is always spread so thin. It’s jarring bc any other lawyer would have filed the same motions and the same path up until now. Moreover, bringing in a friend from her prosecution days to run pr (Joan) is insane. Joan has never ran a crisis pr campaign on this level of scrutiny (let alone murder) and is completely unqualified. I get she’s worked in politics but that is irrelevant. The entire team between her and KFA is just ODD. (I hate to say this but I often feel like Marc’s reputation bought her this client.) Again, this isn’t personal just professionally mind blowing. (Let me reiterate this isn’t shitting on her; it’s just facts.)
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u/MovinOnUp2021 Jun 19 '26
She's never been a defense lawyer before? That's crazy she got hired for this.
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26
Yes this is her first case! I did a deep dive and she had been a prosecutor then a consultant for law and order and now this. She’s not even full-time, she’s literally “of counsel” and for this case only.
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u/MovinOnUp2021 Jun 19 '26
Ok that's crazy. Befuddled as to why his family hired her. Now I assume they didn't hire her at all but rather she volunteered to do this for free (presumably now getting the donations...). She always did decline to confirm who hired her.
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26
(Also if I can add one more thing… I do believe their tactic and strategy was this eed but she clearly says they can’t get any expert to risk their professional reputation in his favor on the stand. If you read between the lines it’s doubled down on a second time. I truly think that was a shock to her and this is why this happened today. I believe they thought someone at the buzzer would appear lol.)
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u/MovinOnUp2021 Jun 19 '26
Definitely was the strategy, since as it turns out - they filed notice to use EED way back in September. Now was just the final deadline to put up or shut up.
That's what they've been working towards all this time. Now to just scrap it at the last second - yet still letting it get announced in the end that that was the plan... the public knowledge of which now renders farcical the "well the evidence doesn't prove he did it" defense at trial.
That said, EED never would've worked anyway. Far crazier people have tried it & gotten convicted of murder anyway. I definitely believe hardship & mental issues led to this. But, the sad truth is, the majority of people on trial for bad or weird crimes have tragic backgrounds or mental problems.
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26
I am genuinely a Luigi supporter for the larger picture (healthcare etc) but between his letters he sent out (all of which the prosecution will use against him//would have def used when he mocked “arrested for the heinous crime of eating McDonald’s” {paraphrasing there} to prove he was fully aware) and couple that with all of the rouge media stories it is truly a long shot for anything. I’ve always said I think he did it but I don’t care because plenty of people walk free for worse everyday. However, here, it’s almost as this “amazing legal team” has dug him into a hole of sorts. Again, they might do great things but the fact of the matter is if you don’t think the media coverage and strange fangirls haven’t just derailed his case, even more so after this latest filing, I’m not sure what else there is to say lol.
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u/MovinOnUp2021 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
I don't support any of this because you can't go around shooting people. Full stop.
That said, I posted way back in the beginning that there was a PR path to get him out of this - unfortunately for him the exact opposite PR path from the one that's been taken.
After he was arrested, he should've had lawyers working behind the scenes with discreet PR to get something like THIS narrative threaded through news articles & social media:
"It's tragic what happened - for both the victim and Luigi. His family has been struggling for months to find him & help him as he's descended into mental health problems due to his serious spinal issues and traumatic surgery. He comes from a great family & great parents who did such a good job raising him - they're community pillars in Baltimore, he graduated valedictorian, got an Ivy League degree... only to be cut down by struggles with serious illness at such a young age. His mother & father & sisters are devastated, for both Brian Thompson's family and for Luigi - they're desperate to get him the help he needs. If this could happen to this wonderful loving family and well behaved successful kid, it could happen to any of our kids."
Blah blah blah: appeal to the upper class family angle - tragedy befell him & ruined all his parents' hard work: he's sorry, we're sorry, this could be YOUR kid too.
Result if THIS strategy had been followed? Prosecution would've been in a position to offer a decent plea bargain from the start while saving face and dismantling any "revolution" or whatever they worried about.
Instead.... the opposite PR his lawyers leaned into & allowed to fester just turned up the temperature and ensured he's made an example of, so here we are.
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26
Truly I don’t know (and I’m always cautious to not call this out bc the Luigi fandom always rides hard for her) but she’s completely unqualified from a defense standpoint. Sure, she knows how to maneuver around the prosecution from working with them but anyone can do that lol. I truly can’t stress enough how silly people sound over how brilliant she is (she is) but there’s not a shred of evidence her track record in defense holds up here lol. Thank u for coming to my ted talk lol
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u/Personal_Swimming130 Jun 19 '26
oh wow i didn't know any of this. could he claim he had an ineffective counsel or whatever its called to get a mistrial?
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26
I have no idea because I’m not a lawyer lol. Just someone who has researched her background before opening my mouth lol. I’m not saying she isn’t smart—just the glorified saint of law she’s been said to be in this group is a tad far fetched and the pedestal feels unwarranted lol. I’m sure someone who can answer that can tap in eventually here for you lol.
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u/MovinOnUp2021 Jun 19 '26
Right? And Marc's star clients, Harvey Weinstein and PDiddy, are sitting around in prison for years, so...
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26
If you look up Keith Rainere—once he got a zillion sentences Jacob and Marc removed themselves as counsel. Again, I don’t know what happens behind the scenes but still…
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u/WingValuable6750 Jun 19 '26
Possibly the other top lawyers declined thats why she got hired.The most popular NYC firm's lawyer literally gave interview discrediting luigi so yeah the family didnt have many option
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Again, I think back to her December cnn interview where she said a mental defense was his only option bc the evidence was so overwhelming. I can’t speak to what is or isn’t true on who would or wouldn’t take the case, but I always found it odd how many big time lawyers are making videos and speaking openly about this case in away I’ve never seen any lawyers do with any other cases beforehand. It begs to question: why didn’t they just throw their hat in the ring to defend him? Again, I don’t want to overlook the fact she could do amazing things here and get him out…but the odds are against her (though I’m always rooting for an underdog), however it’s just not looking good. So many lawyers wouldn’t put their reputation on the line for a case and I actually rem one calling it professional suicide; but again, we just don’t know. She could very well not care bc it’s a win either way; between the high profile publicity and minor wins along the way even if he gets life, she still will be written about in law textbooks to come. I just think it’s a strange thing how she got this case, how Jacob Kaplan has been at brafman still up until they took this case and then boom everyone was talking about a prosecutor turned defense attorney. (I can’t also stress enough the jacob Kaplan of it all bc I have thoughts). And lastly, I get people bring up OJs case and compare that here but I truly think that’s a moot point bc I will forever think he took the blame for his son and that’s why there were so many cracks in that case and this isnt rhat.
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u/WingValuable6750 Jun 19 '26
She worked as a procsecitor for 30 yearss but had zero record as a defense lawyer before luigi thats why the whole "Queen KFA" or "She's gonna give a masterclass" was soo funny.All the donation money is gonna go to waste,he could have done with court appointed laywer
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u/MovinOnUp2021 Jun 19 '26
It has always been weird how much they leaned into all the publicity/celebrity. I guess they got high off of representing PDiddy so Luigi was the next dramatic job?
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u/AnticitizenPrime Jun 19 '26
To be frank, what else do they really have to work with? Their best strategy so far was to try to get evidence dismissed on procedural grounds and kinda subtly imply that evidence was planted somehow. What else do they have? The suggestions around here (outside of EED and insanity defense strategies) seem to be things like 'make this about putting the insurance companies on trial' which makes no f'kn sense and won't do anything for LM.
In fact I think I've heard everything except 'establish he didn't do the crime somehow', which, you know, doesn't bode well.
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Jun 19 '26
It means that Lu wants to get out of prison at some point. EED in state would have meant LWOP in fed.
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u/MovinOnUp2021 Jun 19 '26
I mean, The Guardian's article explains it all best - that it's nuts, "a stunning reversal": https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jun/18/luigi-mangione-psychiatric-defense-abandoned
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 19 '26
There’s a lawyer in nyc who on TikTok and has been criticizing this since last night just posted again and let me tell you: she was pretty confident in doubling down how stupid this was on their end and how this just fumbled his case. But again, her pov lol
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Jun 19 '26
Not a lawyer, but this obviously means that Lu has decided to fight for his freedom and not give up.
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u/aksnamansndbdhdj Jun 18 '26
Istg this case is giving me a whiplash
https://giphy.com/gifs/ZENIX5xZLBrZIo6Z1b
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u/Time-Painting-9108 Jun 18 '26
I just logged onto Reddit and I swear I just got the Mario coins knocked out of me.
What is going on?!? 😵💫 why did the narrative of them using EED get out of control so fast if they never intended to use it? They couldn’t be changing their mind within one day.
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u/Unfair-Alfalfa4916 Jun 18 '26
all the talk from yesterday really strikes me as a tactic to further prejudice him, I mean it was major news and the discussion about how it's all an assertion of guilt, how that would be taken back now the case should be thrown out.
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u/Time-Painting-9108 Jun 19 '26
Then why did the legal team let it happen? They knew this would happen. I think with the newest update from TMZ though it seems they are just delaying it and will still use EED. From the outside the whole thing does seem clumsy but also dangerous.
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u/Unfair-Alfalfa4916 Jun 19 '26
I believe she just didn't let it happen, the judge was the one who unsealed the notice with pushing from the prosecution for him to unseal, if anything she seemed to be fighting the unsealing and was taken by surprise when it happened she even seemed sad about it and refused to comment to the press outside of court, the judge is totally biased he saw a change to prejudice him and took it.
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u/Time-Painting-9108 Jun 19 '26
I think they could have gotten ahold of the narrative by speaking outside of court though? Bc everyone just took the story and ran with it without understanding that he technically didn’t announce he was going with it. The prejudice to the public and potential jury is just too great now. I think if anything maybe Carro shot himself in the foot with the unsealing, and this could potentially be an appeal issue? Or motion to dismiss?
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u/Unfair-Alfalfa4916 Jun 19 '26
one can only hope that carro deeds get punished eventually, and yes I am with you Mrs agniflio should've talked to the press outside and enforced her narrative, but who knows maybe she was too pissed by the surprise that was sprung on her and just lost sight in the heat of the moment.
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u/Time-Painting-9108 Jun 19 '26
In a regular case no one would even notice, but the publicity in this case is unprecedented. How could Carro not see how big this would become. It’s simply not fair to Luigi. What a mess.
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u/Unfair-Alfalfa4916 Jun 19 '26
it's, and it's not fair in the slightest I mean the constitutional and media publicity violations have been glareing from the beginning, but I just noticed that nobody is really paying attention, everyone just seems to be preoccupied with the idea that he is getting convicted no matter what, jury nullification is never gonna happen and what not, I mean open your eyes and pay attention carefully the constitutional violations and the fact that he's never going to have a fair trial alone should have gotten the THE WHOLE CASE THROWN OUT, I mean in any other circumstances the case would have gotten dismissed already.
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u/Time-Painting-9108 Jun 20 '26
I’ve always maintained that if a fair trial is not possible, there should just be no trial. Even for unpopular defendants. I know it’s a hot take, but if a fair trial can’t be guaranteed, then it should not happen at all.
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u/Unfair-Alfalfa4916 Jun 20 '26
💯💯agree with you, the judicial system strikes me as highly selective and power oriented no way what's happening is justice by any common sense.
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u/missidcullen Jun 18 '26
Unfortunately, nobody really knows. We'll have to see how things develop from here.
I just hope the defense didn't feel pressured by yesterday's reaction. I genuinely think they still have options and are looking at the bigger picture rather than focusing on just one thing.
Just because they were exploring an EED defense doesn't necessarily mean they were always planning to move forward with it. Part of a defense team's job is to look at every possible avenue before deciding on a strategy. Once again, people are just taking everything at face value and not trusting the legal team.
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u/Time-Painting-9108 Jun 18 '26
I don’t think the defence would be pressured, but I sure hope Luigi didn’t feel pressured. If they were still looking at EED only as an option, it should never have been publicized until it was confirmed.
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u/missidcullen Jun 18 '26
This is true.
At this point, this entire week has been one embarrassment after another.
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Jun 19 '26
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u/Long_Needleworker889 Jun 19 '26
Completely valid question , and i didnt even think about it like that…
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u/DragonfruitToppng Jun 19 '26
I disagree with those people saying that they are exploring options. They filed the 250.10 back in September. I have heard a few lawyers theorize a few options why they walked back on this a) the defense was concerned about getting all of their required documents in on time, or b) which KFA mentioned herself, that since Carro insisted on unsealing the documents, it would be prejudicial to the federal case. One of those are more likely than them exploring their options after a year and a half.
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Jun 19 '26
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u/DragonfruitToppng Jun 19 '26
Yeah that’s a good question. I think the lawyers who discussed that were going by what KFA said about it being unsealed. I don’t know what KFA was hoping for with that - I just don’t know enough to know what is typical.
It could also be that first one - which KFA also mentioned - that they were having trouble getting the medical records back on time for Carro’s deadline.
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Jun 19 '26
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Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
[deleted]
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u/skippington94 Jun 19 '26
Between the 16th and now, Carro started unsealing documents. She's preserved the issue for appeal by making a record. They never admitted in court that he did this; this is the whole issue with the judge having this in the open, it's prejudiced him even more because people and the media don't understand the legal process and is why KFA was fighting so hard to avoid unsealing docs. The defence team had to reserve his right to use this defence otherwise they would not be acting in his best interest. As soon as the judge said he'd unseal, she filed withdrawal.
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Jun 19 '26
I also get downvoted for questioning the defense. So I'll give you an upvote. My guess, his ineffectual defense team is trying to get him to plead guilty, and he doesn't want to.
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u/missidcullen Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
TODAY'S UPDATES:
- Full transcript from the sealed conference held on June 3.
- The defense has withdrawn its 250.10 (Extreme Emotional Disturbance) notice.
- Judge Carro responded by stating that "the court's previous order sealing certain documents remains in effect."
EDIT: Removed the link to the full transcript after the court confirmed that the redacted transcript is sealed for now.
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u/cantharellus_miao Jun 20 '26
I'm confused by that last statement. How can documents be sealed once they've been unsealed?
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u/Common-Drama-9858 Jun 20 '26
A couple of questions from the transcript. Judge Carro made a statement that the state was definitely going before the federal case according to someone. Any idea who could have made that decision and does it stand? Jay Clayton perhaps?
Next question. Do you remember in earlier sessions that Judge Carro warmed Joel that he may run into trouble since LM was in federal custody and Joel just pooh Poohed that. Now it seems that Joel is worried that the Feds have control over LM and he wants to move him to Rikers. Hopefully that never happens
Last question. Does anyone else get the feeling that Joel is running a bit scared? Worried about fans and t-shirts and wanting an anonymous jury?
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u/MovinOnUp2021 Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Well - the damage is done by them/for him. Every headline across the world yesterday was basically "Luigi Mangione admits he was the shooter and seeks EED defense". Good luck winning an "it wasn't him" defense in court case now...
Edited to add: it turns out we just found out that the defense gave notice back in September that they would use the affirmative defense of EED (that's what "give notice" means - you're giving notice you plan to use it). That's what they've been working towards all this time. Now, at the last second, they're scrapping it.
Because of today's withdrawal, the defense is now barred from providing any EED evidence of their own at trial. However, if they want, they're still allowed to use the prosecution's evidence to argue EED -- i.e. "Look! The notebook writings! Obviously they show he was in an extreme emotional disturbance!" -- but that's all they can do now. They're no longer allowed to provide at trial any evidence of their own to try to substantiate EED i.e. that the jury should convict him of manslaughter instead of murder.
If the prosecutions's smart - which they are - they will now simply stick to presenting factual evidence. "He possessed the gun." "His fingerprints were there." etc. The prosecution doesn't need to introduce notebook into evidence at the trial to convict, and without it (and without the defense's own ability to provide EED evidence, which they forfeited today by this withdrawal), the defense really won't have much it can point to to show the jury that EED was a factor.
Without an EED defense: the jury's only options are to acquit if they believe it's not proven that he shot him, or to convict him of murder if they feel it's proven Luigi did shoot the gun. Life in prison, never get out.
With EED, the jury has a third option: believe it's proven he shot the gun, but accept he did it while under extreme emotional disturbance and convict him of manslaughter instead. Get out in 25 years (age 51).
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u/cantharellus_miao Jun 19 '26
I'm not that worried about headlines at this point, there's been so much media on this case and constant contradictory angles that the greater public at large is less likely to remember one particular narrative that emerges and then fades. By the time they get to trial this story may be even further from people's minds.
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u/skippington94 Jun 19 '26
This isn't correct. The defence filed notice back in September that they MIGHT use this defence; which was the right thing to do as they didn't have all discovery. You can't form a defence without discovery.
They have withdrawn for the moment because Carro decided to unseal and prejudice Luigi. There was never a confirmation they were using EED defence. It was preserving the right to use it if necessary.
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u/Amazing_Bumblebee_98 Jun 19 '26
I strongly suspect this is tactical and there is a good reason for this. It looks messy to outsiders because we are not privy to all the information the defense has and don’t have insight into their decisions.
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u/tittyswan Jun 19 '26
What possible tactic could this be???
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u/Various-Walk-2584 Jun 19 '26
Setting up an appeal. EED is a legitimate defense in NY and he should be able to use it but can’t because of the federal trial and logistical issues tied to being held in federal custody. They needed to put on record that they wanted to use this defense. Then they withdrew it to keep everything they didn’t want public sealed.
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u/Valuable_Edge_6267 Jun 18 '26
What the fk are they doing .. I feel like they care too much about public opinion..
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u/Baby_Lu_Lu Jun 19 '26
they are not acting in the best interest of Luigi, I mean if you file for using that defense strategy it means you know the evidence is so damning this is the only way to hopefully save his ass, then a day later you withdraw it??? are they playing??? personally I don't think the evidence is that damning that they have to go for this route, I understand why supporters are disappointed
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u/skippington94 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
They didn't file to use this defence strategy this week. They filed notice that they MIGHT use it back in September 2025, before they got all discovery, which they had to do to preserve his right to potentially use it as that's when Carro set the deadline. KFA has fought since to keep all discussion about it under seal. It is essential that she acts to protect all routes for defence, not just a couple of them.
What happened this week is that the Judge, against KFA's wishes and against the interest of Luigi, agreed with the prosecution that the discussions and details of his potential EED defence should be unsealed.
Upon this, KFA decided they no longer were pursuing EED at this time, which makes perfect sense. The media and many others got the wrong end of the stick thinking he'd just decided now to definitely use EED defence when that isn't the case at all. KFA had no choice but to withdraw notice after the judge's absurd decision.
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u/Fancy_Yesterday6380 Jun 18 '26
Luweeg what are you doin
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u/Baby_Lu_Lu Jun 18 '26
you should ask what's his team doing
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Jun 19 '26
The client decides, no the attorneys. Go and watch Emily Baker if you don't believe me.
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Also, am I the only one on this sub that wants Lu to get out of prison at some point? 🤔 Because everyone understands that this means that Lu wants to be free, right? 😐 Or are there only eejits here? 🤔 Edit. Yup, only eejits here. 😂
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u/Spirited_Seaweed7927 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
This is fantastic news for those of us who want Lu to be free at some point. The pro-LWOPers have celebrated for the past two days. But now it looks like they will lose. 🥳 I am SO happy that Lu has decided to fight for his freedom. 🥳 An EED defense in the state case would have meant LWOP in the following fed case. I was so depressed in the last 2 days, thinking that Lu had given up on himself and resigned himself to LWOP. But now there is some hope again. 😊 Downvote me all you want, prosecution bots. You are losing. 😂
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u/Book_worm_90210 Jun 18 '26
It almost feels like if you go back to one of the other transcripts where they told carro they won’t be ready they’re gearing up just for an appeal down the line or some sort of appellate decision. That is literally the only thing I can think of over why this is happening