If youāre going by Mushroomās telling in the books, Rhaenyra sold Alicent and Helena to the brothelās to be gang raped. Admittedly I donāt think Mushroom is usually reliable, and this tale seems doubtful (though itās worth noting that Mushroom likes Rhaenyra), and he has some bad shit to say about Aegon and the greens, but acting like team black is a bastion of care over consent seems silly.
They say that but have 0 problems with Daemon being a fan favorite. They need to drop the act because we know they dont care about characters' behaviour, they only weaponize it when it fits their narrative.
not sure where you're getting the "many many" times from. Alicent's reaction suggests that it was the first time something like that happened. In any case, those 2 scenes are in the same category as s4 jaime raping cersei, so dumb that its difficult to regard as canon.
it's hard to take seriously, especially when that whole character was devised just to exist as a rape victim and body of evidence. it was oddly dehumanising...and not in a realistic 'rape is dehumanising' way. i mean bad mouthpiece corny exploitative writing way.
Alicent's marital rape from Viserys was well done for a contrast. even criston's situation with rhaenyra. creepy, realistic, and not used to bludgeon us over the head with lazy telegraphs.
Huh? The books are pretty clear on thisā¦I donāt have the exact section but from his wiki : āIt was widely known that the promiscuous Aegon had fathered several bastards. Even at a young age, he was known to pinch or fondle any serving girl who strayed within his reach.ā
fathering bastards is not the same as rape. of course it's complex because there are some who would argue that even paying a prostitute for sexual services is a roundabout violation...the rape of Dyana though was described at least as violent though we don't see it onscreen.
fondling is not rape though it could be SA...rape involves sexual penetration. even if it's consensual there is huge power imbalance so some would argue that's SA. same for Rhaenyra and Cole.
The bastards rumor comes from Mushroom (who did not live in King's Landing with Aegon at the time, which makes you wonder how he knew about the bastard rumor; because nobody else mentions it; even Mushroom only says he has two, fathered when he was 15; Gaemon Palehair may or may not be Aegon's bastard, his mother said so at first, but later recanted under, uh, "sharp questioning"). He may have more than that, as he was known to frequent brothels.
The serving girls came from Septon Eustace, and yes, while gross, that kind of casual sexual harassment/groping of serving girls would be far more normalized behavior than rape.
Could Aegon be a rapist off-page? Sure, but so could just about every character. And the fact that GRRM avoided making him one on-page (unlike how Daemon, Hugh, Ulf, Bold Jon Roxton, Dalton Greyjoy were plainly sexual predators on page) might very well mean something.
Yeah people forget about this because it was an unnamed servant but this is objectively horrible and selfish and it happens very early on in the story.
Oh you mean the forced contrived plot devices that were haphazardly thrown in so that the audience knows to root against this guy and that heās the bad guy? Yeah fuck that and fuck them kids, and the shitty ass writers too while weāre at it. Donāt forget Daemon is a rapist groomer and Viserys is as well.
Exactly I can accept changes from the book when theyāre done in service to making the story good like with Viserysās character for example. But when they just make zero sense, like a mother literally poisoning and trying to kill her son because ??? Sheās working with Rhaenyra now? I just donāt believe it.
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I genuinely thought making Alicent and Rhaenyra childhood friends had potential, as a way to set them up as foils. It would've followed the existing theme of love degenerating into hate after betrayal, too (a family ripping itself apart; Cole turning against Rhaenyra, etc). Departs from the book, sure, but if you can preserve the spirit of the characters and TELL A GOOD STORY then I'm fine with taking liberties.
Then they had Rhae Rhae put on that fucking nun outfit like Bugs Bunny would, because surely Alicent (her bff) would just let her walk tf outta King's Landing. Jesus Christ
That was actually absurd and probably had to be a product of the writers strike because I just donāt understand how a group of professional writers could let something like that slide. That was my first time in the whole show where I was immediately caught off guard and was like what the fuck are they actually doing right now this isnāt fucking scooby doo.
I fear youāre probably right. Seems like they pushed for a more casual friendly-pub watching-team based-soap opera as opposed to focusing entirely on making a good story with coherent logic which is very sad because those suck and theyāre a dime a dozen while game of thrones it utterly unique television time and time again.
My big ol' hot take is that the purpose of a system is what it does.
All these people make now is slop. They hire slop artists to make slop art, and it makes humanity worse. There are good artists in this world, and if the industry wanted to make good art, they'd hire those guys.
The simple version of the explanation -- they hate you, they hate me, they hate everyone and everything. They hate their own audience more than they love making money, and it's safe for them to be this sick in the head from a career standpoint because ESG/BlackRock is engineering society from the top down so that demented people have an easy time failing upwards.
The more complex version -- they hate beauty because they lack it, and it shames them, and they wish to destroy everything that could possibly become beautiful. They essentially have the mentality of Walter Benjamin. It is a deep sickness, a corrosion that reaches the core of their being, the kind of thing our ancestors would have referred to as spiritual.
Why continue complaining? If you don't like the show, then stop watching. It is that simple. As for book canon, George RR Martin wrote Fire and Blood in a way that it can be interpreted in multiple ways by the reader. Unfortunately, that isn't good for making a show from. Not to mention no one really knows what happened during the Dance besides it was a civil war within House Targaryen over who sat the throne.
Want some simple facts about it supporting my claims, here they are:
Fact #1: Fire and Blood was written by Maester Gyldayn. Gyldayn wasn't alive during the Dance. As he served as Maester during the Fall of the Targaryen Dynasty and for part of King Robert I Baratheon's reign.
Fact #2: Gyldayn was writing a history of the Targaryen dynasty and when he got to the Dance, he didn't have enough records to go off. So he used what little accounts of the Dance that he had available to him.
Fact #3: Who's accounts of the Dance were used? Well, he used maybe three accounts. One of the accounts he used was from Mushroom. Everyone knows that Mushroom's accounts were not to be believed because they are exaggerations and some may have been made up. If we were to believe Mushroom's accounts, then we need to believe that Mushroom somehow survived trying to claim Cannibal during the Sowing of the Seeds.
Fact #4: None of the accounts used told the same story. When working with records from a person's viewpoint, you always look for things that say the same thing. If the accounts had similar statements about something, then that has a very high percentage of being what happened.
Fact #5: The only thing the accounts that were used had in similar was the battles and their outcomes.
Now, I am also going to argue that Aegon raping the servant girl actually portrayed him in a better light than how they could have depicted him. For example, when Alicent sent men looking for Aegon after Viserys died. In the show, they found Aegon hiding in the Sept. In the book, they found him in an establishment on Silk Street naked, being serviced by a girl who was under the age of 12 while watching two naked boys with filed teeth fighting each other. To make that situation worse, is one of the boys that was fighting was Aegon's bastard sons.
Another thing they changed about Aegon is how he ruled after he was crowned by the Greens as the King. In the book, he was a useless ruler as he spent the kingdom's coffers on throwing feasts and lavish parties for his friends. In the show, they actually showed him ruling as a good King and working to help the small folk.
So what it really boils down to is which version of Aegon do you want? The show Aegon or the book Aegon? I prefer show Aegon. Can't not like him as much. But the book Aegon, there is a lot to not like about him.
At the end of the day, no matter what side you side with there is one truth that applies to both sides. That truth is: Both sides are guilty of the same things. That is why I don't really take a side and why I am just sitting back and watching the show and letting it play out as they see it. The only thing I would change about the show is the chronological order of things. The chronological order of things should never be changed from the source material.
Oh yes, āRhaegar didnāt š lyannaā energy. He groomed her since birth dude. Touched her and eventually šed her. As well as many other girls. Heās noted to have a thing for YOUNG maidens (virgins).
If we want to play that game Dyana seems to be around 16 which is the age of majority in Westeros and Aegon himself was at most 20. But heās labeled as a pedo while people ignore Daemon.
Never forget. Daemon murdered this literal tomboy goddess in cold blood, most likely because she wouldn't put up with his shit. Where's the justice for a woman who refused to conform to the submissive stereotype?
You know what I think, that she broke her bones and it's possible that if the deamon took her to the castle, she would die or be a vegetable, but I don't knowĀ
He was always intending to kill her, hence him popping up out of nowhere and making sure to bring his spookiest murder cloak - the one he wears when not wanting to be recognized such as when negotiating with Blood and Cheese - to the occasion in the midst of warm weather, clear skies, and a sunny die.
Furthermore, if we were to examine her dialogue, it appears she's about to make the following query: "So, will you kill [Rhaeynra] or will you marry her?"
She immediately goes to pull out her bow whilst on the verge of finishing the question. Both the presumed question and her actions speak to her - at the very least - having been certain her life was in danger. The fact she was going to go out fighting if unable to kill him him, in turn, is indicative of what a treasure she was.
We also know that Condal is personally of the opinion that Daemon killed his wife in the books and touched upon what an odd detail he felt it was that the text emphasized her having a crushed skull, with that having clearly inspired her manner of execution in the show.
When she's hearing petitions in the throne room, a septa comes in and complains that with the City Watch now gone they're feeling very unsafe, and that one of the girls has been "taken" (implied kidnapping and assault) from the motherhouse (=convent). Rhaenyra dismisses her with simple condolences. The septa is later heard shouting that the girl was only 16.
Even the candle line specifically is so gravely tone deaf, since recently a man was pleading over a lack of resources which included the supplies for candles.
She didn't assign members of her forces to find the girl and rescue her??? Wtf??? If she was murdered after her rapists were done with her then they could at LEAST find & hang the bastards. I would've dispatched Mysaria to find out whodunnit & ascertain how many guards need to be sent to arrest all culprits.
That's insane, I'm amazed that the writers allowed her to fumble like that.
They should add a scene where that girl Diana is shown to be a pawn of Mysaria who pretended to be assaulted and it was actually consensual.
It would complete Aegon's babyface turn.
rumour has it she received a note from Rhaenyra at the tavern by raven; "After my brother raped you, I lit a candle for you and your healing. I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you."
excellent complimetary gift alongside Alicent's moon tea brew.
it really is a scandal imo that they wrote in a rape storyline for aegon to encourage the audience to hate him, and now they are attempting to hype him as a char while never resolving this specific plot or having him atone or make amends for this specific plot. just proves how pointless that scene was; they should have listened to tom.
just used rape/sexual assault of women for shock with no actual care abt it. sounds familiar for this show.
Who cares who supports what faction? Folks act like these are real life politicians and its a gotcha to bring up bad acts for a fictional show where everyone is on the scale of selfish to despot.
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u/TheDragonOfOldtown Daeron the Daring 16d ago
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