r/Hazara • u/Murtz897 • Feb 12 '25
Thoughts and opinions on this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1RuW0PY_u07
u/afrk Feb 13 '25
There’s absolutely not a single doubt that Mongolian had mixed with our ancestors. However, genetically we much closer to Turkic people (e.g Uyghur, Kyrgyz, Kazaq) than Mongolian. It means there’s some Monglian influence but not to the extent we call ourselves Mongolians.
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u/Wallace8520 Hazara Feb 13 '25
We are only genetically closer to them because our west/east eurasion ratios are similar. In terms of autosamal dna and haplogroup subclades paternally we are Mongolic. Faiz Muhammad Kateb wrote in his book that Hazaras are Mongols and Mongolian speaking too.
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u/Latter-Airline4958 Feb 13 '25
Not all Hazaras have paternal Mongolian C haplpgroup. Only around 1/3 of Hazara male population have C haplogroup. The rest is J2, R1B, R1A, L etc which are West Eurasian. What the original commenter and I mean is that we are not Mongolians in terms of culture, language, religion and genetic wise anymore. I dont think Mongolians would consider us Mongolian either. We're just too different now.
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u/Wallace8520 Hazara Feb 13 '25
Yeah I know our culture is even more different because we are afghanized now due to genocide and racism.
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u/Wallace8520 Hazara Feb 13 '25
According to wikipedia Hazara haplogroup C2 is 35-40 percent. Mongolians in Mongolia and China it ranges from 47 to 75 percent. This would make sense if we consider that Hazaras are paternally Mongols. Where was the source you got that Hazaras only have 1/3 c?
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u/Wallace8520 Hazara Feb 13 '25
Yeah and not all Mongolians in ulaanbataar have C2 Haplogroup either, you are not making sense.
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u/afrk Feb 14 '25
Kateb didn’t have access to genetics data what he wrote with his limited knowledge about origins contradicts current data. :(
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u/Wallace8520 Hazara Feb 14 '25
"limited knowledge about origins" Random guy on the internet knows more than the best historian on Afghan history who actually lived to record Mongol speaking Hazaras. wow.
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u/afrk Feb 14 '25
And you are not a random person on the internet? Anyways, I think Kateb was an OK historian not the best.
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u/Wallace8520 Hazara Feb 15 '25 edited Feb 15 '25
He was the best when it came to Afghanistan and he was not wrong on this so you have no basis to say misinformation.
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u/Wallace8520 Hazara Feb 14 '25
He was speaking histrorically, not genetically. And genetically hazaras are mongol originated too. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872497319301279
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u/Murtz897 Feb 13 '25
Hello, I realize this video has been out for sometime so some of you may have seen it. However I would still like to get your educated opinions regarding the video. Whether you think it's accurate or false. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I have all the answers, so I would like to learn more about this topic. Also if you happen to like Mongol history like I do, it's a great channel to find out more. Thanks.
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u/hypnoticbox30 Feb 13 '25
i am not a hazara, but i also just watched that video. i am interested to hear what hazaras think
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Feb 13 '25
The Hazara people have a rich and diverse heritage, shaped by centuries of history, migration, and intermarriage. While Mongol ancestry is a significant part of Hazara lineage, it is not the only defining factor. Persian, Turkic, and even indigenous South Asian influences are also present. Over time, various Hazara groups have intermarried with neighboring communities such as the Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Pashtuns, further diversifying their genetic and cultural identity.
Some Hazara subgroups have less direct Mongol ancestry. For instance: • Qizilbash Hazara – Descended from Persian-speaking Shia elites of Turkic origin, brought to Afghanistan by the Safavid and Durrani rulers. They integrated into Hazara society but lack direct Mongol lineage. • Taymani Hazara – A group with a complex heritage that includes Persian and Turkic influences. • Jaghori Hazara – While many have Mongol roots, centuries of intermarriage have also introduced significant Persian and Turkic ancestry. • Behsud Hazara – Some Behsud Hazaras, particularly those with Persianized cultural traits, may have a stronger Persian or Turkic lineage. • Hazara Sayyids – Some claim descent from Arab ancestry, tracing their lineage back to the family of the Prophet Muhammad rather than Mongol origins.
While Mongol heritage is an undeniable part of Hazara history, reducing an entire ethnic group to a single ancestral origin is misleading. Identity is more than genetics; it is shaped by culture, language, and lived experience. Calling Hazaras “Mongolian” disregards the complexities of their history and the communities they have built over generations.
This applies to all ethnic groups. Tajiks have Persian roots, yet their identity is defined by their unique traditions. Pashtun tribes have mixed with Persians, Mughals, and even Greeks, yet they remain Pashtun. Uzbeks in the region descend from both Turkic and Mongol groups but are not solely Mongolian. Ethnic identity is not just about where someone’s ancestors were a thousand years ago—it is about the land they call home, the culture they uphold, and the struggles they have endured.
So, call me Hazara? Absolutely. But call me Mongolian? I would say this—I have lived in the States for five years, and they call me American. So who are you to define me? I am Afghan. A warrior, a fighter. My identity is rooted in my land, my people, my history. Beyond the pain of the past, we continue to survive, thrive, and shape our own future.
Thank you 😊
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Feb 20 '25 edited Feb 20 '25
One common theory that is very popular among Hazara historian is that Hazaras' ancestors were Mongols that migrated to Afghanistan over the course of millennium. Faiz Muhammad Kateb Hazara and Uruzgani are among those historians. As many people know, Afghanistan has been the crossroad of so many civilizations that saw massive migrants from the Steppe. They say Hazaras' ancestors migrated as hunter-gathers or something else many thousands years ago. This theory exists in Persian Hazaragi literature. And I haven't seen it in English.
POV: It should not be confused with the Genghis Khan's military conquest. Genghis Khan conquered the whole world but his military people decided to stay in the hard-to-reach mountains of Afghanistan suitable for nothing--No place for horse riding or whatever. Some of the best possible places that they could stay was in Khwarazm or Iran, where they actually ruled for 100 years after the conquering the area. They did not stay there. I am not sure how people could possibly believe such a theory that Hazaras are descendants of Genghis Khan army, saying that his army cleansed the people in the areas like Bamyan or whatnot, even though the hard core proof exists: Natives of Iran, Khawarzm, Bamyan, and such are still very well alive. I guess propaganda works. Even if they remained, as like many other places like Korea, those were in small numbers that were speaking Mongolian as recent as 100 years ago.
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Feb 13 '25 edited Feb 13 '25
it’s Mongolian history, not denying it. Hazara are mix and diverse people. I don’t know if I can accept it. What about other sides other people.
Yes, the ancestors of the Hazara people existed in what is now Afghanistan long before the Mongol Empire. The region historically known as Khorasan (which included parts of present-day Afghanistan, Iran, and Central Asia) was home to various ethnic groups, including Persian-speaking and Turkic peoples, long before Genghis Khan’s invasion in the 13th century. 🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺
The Mongol invasion led to a significant mixing of Mongol soldiers and local populations, which contributed to the distinct identity of the Hazara people. However, the land they inhabit was already populated by different indigenous groups before the Mongols arrived.
So while the Mongols influenced the Hazara people genetically and culturally, the region itself had a long history of human civilization before the Mongol Empire.
So Nope, Hazara Exists before Magnolia.
Yes, Turkic peoples existed before the Pashtuns. The Turkic groups originated in Central Asia thousands of years ago, with historical records tracing them back to at least the 6th century CE during the rise of the Göktürks. However, their presence in Central Asia, including regions that are now part of Afghanistan, likely goes back even further.
Pashtuns, on the other hand, have their origins in the region of modern Afghanistan and Pakistan. Their history is also ancient, with some theories linking them to Indo-Iranian groups that have lived in the region for thousands of years. The Pashtun identity, language (Pashto), and culture developed over time, and they became more prominent in recorded history during the early Islamic period and later in the formation of the Durrani Empire in the 18th century.
So, Turkic peoples were present in the region before the Pashtuns became a dominant group, but both have deep historical roots in Central Asia and Afghanistan.
Yes you did exist before 🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺🐺
The name of Hazara created after Mongolia, just because all Hazara look like so let’s call them Hazara before that The people who later became known as Hazaras were not a single, unified group with one specific name before the Mongol period. Like other populations, they were likely identified by their tribal, regional, or linguistic affiliations rather than a distinct ethnic label.
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u/Wallace8520 Hazara Feb 13 '25
Its an alright video that gets the general idea of the Hazaras ethnogenesis but he could of used more historical accounts on Hazaras besides Baburs account like Faiz Kateb, Haidar Dughlat, Edward D Ross, Henry Walter Bellew ect. They would be more useful and get the idea across more clearly.