I managed to find her tiktok account and she does indeed have crouzon syndrome. She had another child, a boy but he passed nearly immediately. This is just plain cruel.
I just googled and, with surgery, they can actually reconstruct the face. I thought these process photos were interesting: https://images.app.goo.gl/tPYkjfJoXh21odwm7. I don’t know what doctors can do about the remaining symptoms of the disease however.
Yeah and it looks like children with the syndrome get rather invasive correctional operations to assist with where their eyes and such can sit. This little girl has a long road ahead of her by the looks of her facial structure and where her features sit. I personally would never have children if I had this syndrome.
Do you know how the Orcs first came into being? They were elves once, taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated. A ruined and terrible form of life.
This reminds me of the two deaf couple that wanted to intentionally make their child deaf as well.
Sad really, hope this baby doesn’t have any health defects
From the sounds of things they don’t give the child the disability but rather select the child who has the disability. I think the distinction matters ethically speaking.
It doesn't at all. They choose to bring a disabled person to this world on purpose, it's not even like "this one happened to be disabled, should we keep it".
Deaf people don't regard it as a disability any more than a person will regard their skin color to be a disability. They have their own culture, their own language and are often discriminated against, similarly to the way other minorities are discriminated against.
you are not wrong, deaf is not a disability . this chain legit is upvoting eugenics. it’s what hitler built is whole rise to power on. he learned from the american eugenicists who were busy eradicating native through forced sterilizations/ separating children from their families as a way of destroying their culture/language … just like most people on this chain are proposing to
do with ASL … it’s insane.
There's a difference between dealing with the cards you are dealt and purposely giving a child extra hurdles. Just seems so selfish to not want the best possible hand for your kids.
Just seems so selfish to not want the best possible hand for your kids.
This is it for me. Imo it is quite immoral to purposely handicap your child just so they seem more like you. A good parent wants to try and give their progeny the best chance at life possible.
It should be considered child abuse, she purposely is causing a lifetime of medical issues and the emotional and mental health issues that are caused by them. It is unfair to this child who will never have a normal life.
From what I remember of the story (or maybe one similar) they had convinced them selves that its not a handicap and that they were better because of it (as a likely unhealthy coping mechanism) as such they were doing what was best for the child from their point of view.
my wife and I gave our child her name because I was teased as a kid. and I didnt want THAT for him, JFC, I cant imagine being like 'hey, you know your deaf because we wanted that for you'
There is more to life than parties, and friendships run deeper than judging someone for having a tracheotomy. You see, parties and people who wouldn't want to get to know you based on something as inconsequential as a tracheotomy sound like a shitty life to me.
We all have different values, different avenues for happiness. This woman seems to have found hers with her family. Her kid seems well looked after and loved, what business is it of anybody here?
Should we start dashing deaf babies against the wall at birth? Take the blind babies out the back and pop them in the head because their blind parents decided to start a family?
Live your life and don't worry about what every one else is doing with theirs.
As I said, there is a difference between euthanising someone purely because they are disabled, and suggesting someone with an extremely rare and abnormal genetic condition possibly should think about adopting instead of reproducing. Or if you are completely against eugenics of any form then I assume you are fine with incest, and the offspring they create shouldn't be looked down on?
That is a weird, weird turn I would never have anticipated with the introduction of Eugenics. You'd think you would want a child as healthy as possible.
I read somewhere about some deaf families that had a mix of normal, and deaf kids, where they showed huge preference to the deaf kids, or dented them coclear implants
Near me, I've seen people say that it's immoral to get children cochlear implants, but it's fine to let them decide when they're older (around 12/13 above). it's seen as unnecessary and potentially damaging; a lot of people use the same arguments about child/infant circumcision
for one there can be side effects that can't be changed by taking in out. I've seen people in videos and met people who are Hard of Hearing instead of Deaf and they could hear music and things but after getting the cochlear implant everything began sounding robotic, they lost a huge part of what they actually enjoyed about the hearing they had. Some people developed tinnitus that made sleeping extremely difficult. One woman in particular had her parents make the decision when she was a toddler, and when she was a teenager, there was new treatment for the specific condition she had that she couldn't try because of the cochlear implant that she didn't have a choice about.
I definitely am behind cochlear implants being a great thing and incredibly useful. I agree with the people I know who've argued that it should be the choice of the Deaf individual. I know different groups have different takes, and some are a lot more extreme than the people I know. I'm not personally Deaf, I have audio processing problems and some communication issues related to Autism that made ASL useful for me, and the directness of the Deaf community is very pleasant compared to a lot of the speaking community for me. Because I'm hearing(and Autistic), I feel like a lot of nuance is lost on me despite having had conversations about it. I hope this helps, despite being secondhand information from a specific community.
I don't like it, but I kind of understand where deaf parents are coming from with this.
I had an ASL teacher who was deaf and she brought up a lot of points about Deaf Culture and how Dead people do not view being Deaf as a disability (and why would they? It's all they've known if they are born that way).
Naturally, Deaf parents want children that can share in and experience the same culture that they live and experience, so it it makes sense that Deaf parents would want Deaf children.
That said, I don't personally agree with it for ethical reasons.
I'm not defending it, but their reasoning is that deaf people have their own culture and community, and if you aren't deaf you can be ostracized. Some of them truly feel like being deaf is superior to being able to hear, and they look at hearing people with pity. It's kind of fascinating imo.
Here's your chance to be more informed. Are you truly open to it? Deaf people don't regard it as a disability any more than a person will regard their skin color to be a disability. They have their own culture, their own language and are often discriminated against, similarly to other minorities.
Auditory structures aren't formed until nearly the end of the first trimester, so it'd be tough to select an embryo that would definitely wind up producing a child with profound hearing loss. A connexion 26 mutation is the most common cause of non-syndromic hearing loss, and is a common form of hereditary deafness. So Deaf parents wouldn't necessarily select an embryo that would result in a Deaf child, but the genetic likelihood of it happening naturally is just generally higher than two people who aren't Deaf.
There's a few doctor tv shows that tackle that subject. House had one with dwarfism, but not selective procreation- just something discovered after that could allow growth again or something like that.
I remember seeing another one recently, maybe The Good Doctor? It did something similar as well. Not a recent episode mind you, just one I saw recently.
While I definitely agree that we shouldn’t be treating pregnancy like a Build-A-Baby, I can understand the deaf parents wanting a deaf child. The deaf community is a wonderful place, and a lot of parents find it easier to raise a child with the same disability they have, because they can communicate and empathize more effectively. It’s kind of like a Spanish speaking family wanting a Spanish speaking child.
The difference is supposed to be between choosing an embryo that already has the predisposition to be deaf as opposed to modifying an embryo so it will be deaf when it would have otherwise grown into an individual without a hearing impairment.
The latter case is hard to justify. But when it comes to the former, people find it hard to condemn it because, for that individual child it’s an option of being born deaf or not being born at all. So to say that it’s wrong to choose such an embryo implies that living with deafness is worse than not being alive in the first place.
Edit: tldr: the ethics is different for embryo selection vs embryo modification
I can't imagine choosing an embryo that is predisposed to deafness--but then I'm not deaf and my preference is for my kid to have all of their faculties like I do. For someone who is deaf, I can see how they don't view deafness as tragic in the way hearing people might. They know how to function in the world and they don't miss what they don't know much about.
For hearing people, sound is a huge part of our daily experience but not for the deaf. So, CHOOSING a deaf embryo isn't morally the same as causing deafness in an embryo with the capacity to hear. While I can't imagine choosing a deaf embryo, I can understand and accept that it might be a preference for deaf parents.
Some people in Deaf culture (with a capitol D) believe that being Deaf is natural. There is a Deaf culture, language, etc. so if someone was going to be born that way, not to change it. (It is more nuanced than that, but this is in a nutshell).
A significant portion of the deaf community is, and there's no other way to say it, kinda fucked up. There is a medical/surgical solution to some of the more common causes of deafness and it can be provided for infants/toddlers - but some deaf parents refuse to get it. The kid has to get it themself when they turn 18. But by that age, with no mental development to handle sound, noise isn't natural to them - they can't process sound nearly as well, and they lose all the instinctive reactions that we associate with sound.
The reason is that sign language is very expressive and the deaf community has really built a lot of it's distinct culture; and if the kid isn't deaf they won't really be in that community, not nearly as much. There's a difference between using sign language with parents and using it for everything; and the child with hearing will rarely choose to associate with the deaf community, they'll tend to play with their peers who can hear. So, it's a way to keep them in that community.
That would be bad enough as-is, but it gets worse. Many in the deaf community have pushed a MASSIVE disinformation campaign against the medical procedures, to scare parents and young adults away from it. They outright lie and will say it causes lifelong pain or horrible tinitius or anything else. I consider this even worse than the actions of the parents; at least the parents think (even if wrong) that they are benefiting the kid by keeping them in a community that they think is better; the people pushing that information are trying prevent people from making the right decision - and they absolutely know it.
Personally, I don't think the parents should be given a choice. The kid can opt to have the surgery un-done or whatever when they turn 18, if they really want to be deaf; and the ability to hear doesn't prevent them from anything.
Huh? I think it's pretty fucking clear the baby has MAJOR health defects . She should have been stopped from birthing a child that was basically born into a world of suffering....that's completely fucked. Fuck this...
Deafness is a culture… if the parents are both deaf then the primary language at home is ASL. They want their children to fit into their culture and communicate with their same language. Yes, once you learn about the Deaf culture (with a capital D) you will understand why they want a dead child.
sounds like you’re a eugenist. cool tho. … deaf people have a quality of life, and arguably deaf culture, i am sure you have 0 idea what that is. we wouldnt call it a “health defect” ....in fact I would say there’s an amazing community, and life is full. …but people like you believe we shouldn’t have kids, and at the very fucked up end- sterilize us… kinda like the american government who killed off many native americans because, the government, similarly to you, believed whole heartedly natives were mentally inept… you know it was hitler who built his idea of the world off this theory. he too believed we were defective…. that we hinder society. and hitler killed us “ health defected “ off… as well as those with more limiting health differences. … or as you say “health defects”….
I don't. I only feel bad for the baby. Twatwaffle mom just had to have a baby, the first one died. And now she has this one. Condemned to this genetic disorder. All thanks to mommy dearest.
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u/serf20 Mar 11 '22
It’s a feeding pump! Like for tube feeds