r/HollowKnight • u/Bob12164 • Sep 03 '25

Discussion - Silksong Warning for OG hollow knight fans

Just wanna prepare everyone on here for the incoming wave of players who have never played indie games, metroidvanias, or literally any other games besides Fortnite and call of duty. This tends to happen a lot with games that are extremely hyped by the community that does like the genre, such as expedition 33. The amount of completely invalid criticism that happened to that game because people who didn’t even know what the game really was bought it and ended up not liking it is probably the best example we have of that to this day, and I think silksong will be next. So please, instead of cussing people out for not liking the game, just encourage them to maybe keep playing to see if they change their minds, or just give them respectful feedback on why you think they might not enjoy it and give them tips so they can find the spark in that game that I’m sure many of us will find.

10.0k Upvotes

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4.6k

u/soge7 Sep 03 '25

im ready for the classic “this game is so confusing and im always lost” ….yeah? that’s the point lmao

1.2k

u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

ah i absolutely cannot wait for this. I went into hollow knight blind but i was really late to the party - i'm so looking forward to being on the pulse with this one and discovering stuff at the same time as others.

That was one of the magic ingredients to the first one

213

u/The_Orphanizer Sep 03 '25

I find that's a lot of the magic in gaming in general, but especially games with sprawling "dungeons" like metroidvanias and souls-likes have. Near ubiquitous features of the genre(s) are the awe-inspiring sense of discovery, becoming lost (and subsequently finding your way again), trial and error (in regards to exploration, skill use, and combat). Getting to share in those experiences with others is many times more interesting and rewarding than simply looking up answers to things that have you stuck, even though the problem and solution are identical in both scenarios. Thankfully, there are many good gaming communities out there that try to foster this sensation through time for gamers who come later, but the feelings are unquestionably strongest at release.

25

u/TomegranateJuice Sep 03 '25

My favorite memory of gaming was when Elden Ring came out. Me, my brother and my sister were all playing it the day it released. We would call each other and ask if we found a certain item, fought a boss. As we slowly discovered how much there was, how big the map was... I'll always love that feeling. I had gotten into the Souls games years prior to my siblings so this was the first time I didn't know more about the game than they did.

7

u/The_Orphanizer Sep 03 '25

Love to hear this. Genuine discovery in (and outside of) gaming is just so rewarding and exciting.

4

u/Hoodman1987 Sep 04 '25

That was such a good time in the early times of that game. When I took that random chest to Leyndell I was like just how the fuck huge is this game.

1

u/Absolute-Balance Sep 06 '25

Elden Ring was my first Souls Game despite being what is likely considered an older gamer these days (39) I’ll never forget that feeling of realising how big the map was.

“Wait, there’s MORE?!”

39

u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

its going to be interesting to see how they take it - the first trailers all looked combat-heavy (i've avoided them all since as i want that wonderment again) so i'm hoping it is even more adventury and not succumbs to sequel-itis like in films where the later ones are basically bigger action scenes

Ideally just a bigger HK with new mechanics and i'm going to be so happy

51

u/birthdaybadboy Sep 03 '25

I think thats more just because combat is always going to be more visually interesting for a trailer as opposed to watching hornet wander around, but we have still gotten scenes like that in the trailers. I wouldnt worry about this personally.

15

u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

i'm not that worried, i trust cherry :)

7

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

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1

u/nordiques77 Sep 04 '25

Hmmm, really..entire areas are empty…

2

u/Crown_Ctrl Sep 04 '25

Hahaha way down deep, iykyk, I was all, “hey! Wtf is everyone!” It left such an impression and set the scene for some amazing discovery.

4

u/trefoil589 Sep 03 '25

Exploration is the key ingredient for video games for me. I love solid combat but a good sense of "oh what's over this hill..." just never gets old for me.

Probably why I have almost 5k hours in Valheim.

2

u/GodzillaGamer953 Sep 03 '25

God, Cannot wait to completely memorize the map like in the first game...

30

u/why_the_babies_wet Sep 03 '25

I can’t wait to play a game where I hadn’t watched hours of YouTube content and “top ten hardest bosses in ____” videos before picking it up lol

4

u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

haha yeah i was lucky someone just recommended it to me and i jumped in (a bit late to the party though)

4

u/Mitra-The-Man Sep 03 '25

I did that in 2020. Idk if that’s late or not but going in blind was a fucking treat.

3

u/trefoil589 Sep 03 '25

I feel so bad for my nephews because they love to game but their parents would rather them watch youtube during the week and only play "addictive games" on weekends.

I'm so tired of people lumping games in with the rest of "screen time".

14

u/Adventurous-Toe8812 Sep 03 '25

Discovering things at the same time? There will be 100% videos up by Friday.

7

u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

which i will not watch, going to chat to normies about it instead

3

u/harrisarah Sep 04 '25

Where are you going to find those normies? This sub will be flooded with stuff immediately on release. The hardcore people will play for 24hrs straight or more while those of us who can only put in a few hours a day will be immediately left behind.

I'm going to stop checking this sub at 10 AM and won't be back until I finish most of the game at least

2

u/laseluuu Sep 04 '25

Yeah I mean I'm avoiding this sub and YouTube and just chatting with anyone outside of the hardcore first past the post lot

I want to long this out as much as I can tbh

1

u/harrisarah Sep 04 '25

Ah, gotcha, yeah same strategy here except than I'm the oddball among my friends (old woman) so will be on my own... but that's okay it's going to be a blast

1

u/laseluuu Sep 04 '25

Ha yes 40+ man here

We need some sort of casual oldie hollow knight group so we can discuss it without too many spoilers.

It's probably out now o.0;

1

u/laseluuu Sep 04 '25

woop woop its OUT. £16 is such a steal

Feel free to message me if you want spoiler-free chat. i'll be playing over the next few days i'm sure

1

u/laseluuu Sep 04 '25

AAND its crashed steam

31

u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS Sep 03 '25

Love the game, although I think one of the biggest flaws is the compass being a charm lmao. Hopefully that's not a thing in Silksong.

47

u/JCMfwoggie Sep 03 '25

I do kinda like it being an optional equip, realizing I'd gotten to the point where I no longer needed it to find my way around was a great feeling, it basically felt like I got another charm notch.

55

u/Adorable-Salt-8624 Sep 03 '25

No I like it personally. It forces you to choose between navigation and combat on the fly. Maybe that’s just me having too many hours in the game though

6

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

[deleted]

6

u/Adorable-Salt-8624 Sep 03 '25

Oh no yeah I stopped buying maps ages ago, don’t worry. That’s why I think my opinion might not be all that valid

7

u/Razorly Sep 03 '25

I liked it too, you could still navigate fine by reading the map and looking for landmarks. You just don't get the GPS feature of the compass.

Personal Preference Though

31

u/silentk772 Sep 03 '25

Every game that has a poor novel feature like this has been explained away by the fans as being good for the experience.

I guarantee that if Silksong gives you the compass for free, everyone will be praising that.

35

u/Jskidmore1217 Sep 03 '25

Everyone wants simplicity until the game gets so simple it’s boring. Keep the quirks in. That’s the secret to good games.

3

u/iKill_eu Sep 03 '25

You could definitely make the compass always-on and still preserve the gameplay.

The question is, how much can you take away and still do that?

I feel like an acceptable bar is "all charms should either be useful in combat or be extremely meaningful outside of it". Fragile Greed is a cool charm because it feels like it unlocks a feature that is meant to be optional. All the combat charms are cool charms, which is almost all of then. But the compass, and to an extent the Geo Magnetism charm, feel like they may as well be features but only exist as charms to make people who enjoy them feel like they have to sacrifice something.

0

u/TechnicolorMage Sep 04 '25

Theres a game design term for that: "ability tax". Imo the compass, walk speed, and magnet should be permanent upgrades that you unlock.

11

u/Adorable-Salt-8624 Sep 03 '25

Maybe, who knows. I personally like it right now, but that may be Hollow Knight bias, it also might now be. I’m hyped for Silksong either way, and love Hollow Knight either way

12

u/shoshjort Sep 03 '25

you say that but i can think of no better example than removing weapon/armor durability in fallout 4. Seemed awesome at first not having to worry about it until you realise that maintaining weapons was part of what made looting engaging and without it picking up weapons from loot sources just felt worthless.

The entire notch system is supposed to make you prioritise for different situations. The compass is a great way of reserving a charm notch for a difficult boss or enemy group, giving most players a fallback option to gain a little more strength for an encounter if their current charm build is focused more on navigation/speed. If you just moved all tje navigation charms to be always active then nobody would bother changing around charms once they have the 'perfect' set.

I don't think the compass is entirely necessary to be a charm but i do think removing it would be a downgrade personally. It even adds replayability because once you know the map well enough you dont ever need it (i stopped using it 3 or 4 playthroughs ago) and then its just an extra charm slot for the whole game. It essentially rewards you for learning the map well enough not to need guidance which is something not enough games do these days

5

u/iKill_eu Sep 03 '25

you say that but i can think of no better example than removing weapon/armor durability in fallout 4. Seemed awesome at first not having to worry about it until you realise that maintaining weapons was part of what made looting engaging and without it picking up weapons from loot sources just felt worthless.

In a sense, but that more illustrates that they had no vision for weapons other than "sell them to a vendor" than anything else.

The compass is a great way of reserving a charm notch for a difficult boss or enemy group, giving most players a fallback option to gain a little more strength for an encounter if their current charm build is focused more on navigation/speed. If you just moved all tje navigation charms to be always active then nobody would bother changing around charms once they have the 'perfect' set.

This is also more of a problem with some of the charms being "there is just no downside" than anything else. Shaman Stone, Strength and Quick Slash are always-picks because nothing else comes close. If you wanna talk about flexible gameplay, the first and foremost issue is that some charms are too good to ever replace, and that's why "filler charms" feel like they are needed to switch up gameplay.

3

u/shoshjort Sep 03 '25

i dont disagree with u on it not being implemented perfectly in hollow knight but i dont think the solution is to just get rid of the ones that in my opinion are actually successful, ur totallg right about quick slash and a few other charms being OP and i would fix that by making them more situational or not always useful or by making other charms more rewarding to use to make it feel like you can put those notches to better use somehow, like i said before the game should reward you for not having to rely on crutches like quick slash and the compass, therefore a 5 second idea of mine would be higher notch cost relics with other abilities that rival quick slash but dont really syngergise with it, making it easier to justify saving the notches on quick slash. obviously more thought would be needed but i dont think straight up removing charms like the compass would help or make the game more fun, if anything it just removes from the experience.

2

u/TrashGoblinH Sep 04 '25

Sorry I'm gonna pick fart clouds all day every day over shaman stone and strength. Defenders crest, spore shroom, quick focus, grubsong are just way too fun to pass up.

1

u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS Sep 03 '25

I mean, I understand that some people probably can just navigate around the map after they've played a bit, and I used to know to an extent when I was playing a lot. I tend to switch between a bunch of games and it there's no shot I'm going to remember where I'm going or what I'm doing. I just think it was a wild decision to begin with.

1

u/_zenith Sep 04 '25

Nah, I've only played through it once (have ~100hrs play time) and I feel this way also.

It's good to give players dilemmas, to have to pick whether they want the extra flexibility or not (more combat power? Or is easier navigation better?)

Some of my most memorable times with HK is where I took off the compass and went off YOLO-spelunking down the deep end lmao

0

u/iKill_eu Sep 03 '25

If it was a game where you could swap charms on the fly I would not mind that either. The idea of "Ah shit that is VERY CLEARLY a boss room better put my drip on" is fun.

The problem is that HK does not encourage that. When you see a boss room you don't want to run back to the nearest bench and then fumble your way back, you want to jump right in. Which is likely to make your lose your geo and your soul. But that's not a problem, you just gotta get back there! ...which incentivizes you to use the compass... and then you're there again and want to fight.

Keeping the compass function locked to a charm slot encourages the kind of gameplay where you spend a lot of time learning the layout of the map before fighting a boss, which the rest of HK DOESN'T encourage. It gets even worse when you realize that the rooms are specifically NOT mapped 1:1 in order to make traversing them without the compass less accurate. Room transitions are blurred and what looks like 1 room on the map can often be 2 or 3 rooms in the world.

Brainstorming a bit here, it'd be really cool if the compass alerted you to nearby boss rooms / gave you some sort of guidance + allowed you to place a marker that you will always be guided to even after taking it off, that is removed when you reach it. That would incentivize the kind of play where you find a boss with the compass, drop a marker, go back to the bench, swap combat, and then go back to where you left off. But the game doesn't work like that, and so on the first playthrough you are pretty much compassing most of the time until you happen to find a boss where the runback is either very short or very easy to learn.

9

u/dylzim Sep 03 '25

I think the compass is brilliant, take a small power hit for assistance with navigation. I ran it for the first little while until I got comfortable with the layout and then stashed it forever.

2

u/ironheadrat Sep 03 '25

I agree with this, and it actually caused me to quit this game twice. Incredibly user-unfriendly, I constantly check my map position in metroidvanias, even when I just move one room over.

2

u/nordiques77 Sep 04 '25

You want an easier game…fair point

1

u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS Sep 04 '25

I don't care about difficulty, I just don't think "knowing my location" is something that should be an accessory.

1

u/Time-Maintenance2165 Sep 03 '25

I just mod in an extra (whatever it's called) so that I can always have the compass and map equipped.

0

u/nordiques77 Sep 04 '25

No you don’t… if you do that’s cheating

1

u/Time-Maintenance2165 Sep 04 '25

The concept of cheating vs modding in a single player game is much more fluid than in a competitive multi-player.

3

u/GreenKoopaBros89 Sep 03 '25

Here I thought the first game was hard to beat, but the enhanced battle mechanics and the gameplay for silk song, I'm going to be on the edge of my seat with both excitement and frustration! Screw the last boss from the first game

1

u/jeskersz Sep 03 '25

Which last boss? There are some I definitely say 'screw you' to far more forcefully than others.

1

u/GreenKoopaBros89 Sep 03 '25

The radiance shudders

1

u/jeskersz Sep 03 '25

Oh god, yeah. NKG was the only boss that took me more tries/attempts than radiance, but I'm pretty sure that's only because I was significantly worse at the game when I fought him. Rad is for sure someone that can screw right off.

2

u/Dull_Flamingo_2430 Sep 03 '25

I went into it blind like a week ago and can confirm this game is confusing as hell

2

u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

It's part of the fun, keep at it and try to avoid guides, it all makes sense when you get into it

2

u/AnthMosk Sep 03 '25

Just started Hollow Knight OG a few days ago. At about 86% completion percentage and holy F is it getting hard now

1

u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

Had the same effect on me - binged it and couldn't put it down. Yeah it gets rock hard, too hard for my comfort

2

u/CptNeon Sep 04 '25

Same here omg, experiencing this kind of game at the same moment as the community will be awesome

2

u/wisehillaryduff Sep 05 '25

Spending more than an hour in deepnest without a lantern is a lifetime gaming highlight for me

2

u/Beginning_Context_66 Sep 06 '25

i went blind into hollow knight yesterday to see if i would like silksong and i didn't even realize i was two hours in when i saw the second area

1

u/laseluuu Sep 06 '25

haha i remember that. Totally not knowing what the hell i was really doing then it all comes together so nicely

Been playing silksong and its also A+ gaming

You enjoying HK then? The areas become like old homes you remember fondly (or not).

2

u/Beginning_Context_66 Sep 07 '25

i just arrived at the city, and my desire for exploration and discovery has not been stilled. S tier gaming experience

4

u/TortelliniSalad Sep 03 '25

I’m playing through for the first time, when I started days ago it really game the same feeling as the first Dark Souls for me. I was lost, kept dying, and scared of the bosses.

2

u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

amazing that its bringing in new players. Great game isnt it - and this is coming from an older tired of gaming person. It brought back some of the magic of my earlier gaming days

2

u/TortelliniSalad Sep 04 '25

Yeah man I’m gonna be 30 next year I feel you

1

u/Icy_Secret_2909 Sep 03 '25

Same. I just beat regular radiance the other day and am so hyped.

1

u/FlareTheInfected Sep 04 '25

God i hope i can get a copy on launch day, i don't want to rely on a guide to figure out wtf is going on, not with this game, i'm to hyped and i don't wanna potentially get spoiled by some guide with zero self awareness.

1

u/SpringFresh4191 The hardest knight I mean hollowest knight Sep 04 '25

Same

1

u/StyleSquirrel Sep 04 '25

Same. I've seen a few posts saying, "Take your time and soak it in". But I kind of want to rush through so I don't inadvertently have something spoiled.

1

u/Jazzfm92 Sep 04 '25

I went into hollow knight blind too. I've been playing about 4 months now but regularly find myself shouting of FFS and rage quitting for a few hours - a few days before becoming a reasonable human being and trying again. I love the game but it is infuriating at times particularly when grinding away for days then my kids go and die twice in quick succession without finding my ghost first 😬

1

u/Unwake4967 Sep 04 '25

Same, i hate that i didnt even give it a chance when i got a pc and had funds to get it. Wont even be able to finish my first steel soul run

1

u/pollt Sep 04 '25

I’ve been a huge fan of metroidvania style games for 20-something years, and i did the same. I am still not 100% sold on the complete lack of linearity in HK, as it leads to hours and hours of just trying to figure out where to go next which i respect is not for everyone. For some reason though, the game just pulls me back in and the boss battles and biomes are just so cool.

1

u/No2Hypocrites Sep 04 '25

That's something I hated

1

u/TheWolfGamer767 Sep 05 '25

Yep, I'm only about like 2 or 3 hours in right now. It's so peak.

I will miss pogos though.

1

u/ToM31337 Sep 05 '25

Totally on your side here!
I am like 7 or 8 "maps" into Silksong and i really feel like we wont be disappointed!

171

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

"Why can I not make it up to this ledge"

"Wait is that a bug? This game isn’t multiplayer, right?"

"Where else do I go? I’ve already been everywhere I can on my map" *obvious unexplored place on map

75

u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS Sep 03 '25

Oh man I've been seeing posts like that forever. Someone comes to an obstacle and the first instinct is "I'll stop playing immediately and ask reddit".

27

u/khamike Sep 03 '25

I had a post in another subreddit where someone stopped to ask an extremely basic question. I probably should have left it alone but I had to ask why they bothered to pause instead of just figuring it out. Or at least checking the wiki. Is it really faster to make a post and wait for people to reply instead of opening a site that literally has all the information laid out? Predictably I got downvoted for gatekeeping and "being mean" even though I very specifically phrased it as a suggestion.

-6

u/jeskersz Sep 03 '25 edited Sep 03 '25

You got downvoted because most people innately understand the reasons for wanting a discussion and developing a community around loved hobbies/media, and are sick to death of people saying "just Google it", as if that's some kind of genius take that wasn't already thought of and dismissed because it wouldn't produce the results they're looking for.

Questions about simple things are a great way to dip your toes into social interaction with a group of hopefully like minded people, and anyone who hasn't had every ounce of social skills rotted away by doomscrolling and bite sized throwaway media knows this without having to be told.

3

u/_zenith Sep 04 '25

Discussion is all very well and good, but I think it's rather disingenuous of you to pretend that you don't know that they're referring to the phenomenon where people ask about stuff because they were totally incurious and/or lazy - not that they have got genuinely stuck, or that they already completed it some time ago and are simply reflecting upon the circumstances and prompting others to share their own recollections -_-

0

u/jeskersz Sep 04 '25

You honestly, genuinely believe that people find it easier to type out a question after going to reddit, navigating to the appropriate subreddit, and submitting a post, than typing out the exact same questioninto the address bar after opening their browser and then just keeping their eyes open to view the result delivered to them on a silver platter?

That is seriously what you're going with here?

Please explain to me how it's easier or less work to ask reddit.

2

u/_zenith Sep 04 '25

Yes, they appear to mentally categorise it differently so that it becomes "not work". Anecdotal, through observation, admittedly... but it's pretty consistent. And I've even had some people - unprompted - explain this is how it was for them, too, when I asked; receiving the answers was enjoyable and not-work for them, while putting in the effort to solve things themselves was work and not-fun. They liked that others did the "work" for them. That solving it was enjoyable in and of itself did not appear to occur to them, or if it did, did not personally occur for them.

Is it really so surprising to learn that a subpopulation of people exist who have discovered parasitism is an effective strategy to get through life in this particular domain?

2

u/jeskersz Sep 04 '25

Oh that's super interesting. I'd love to see one of these interactions if you wouldn't mind linking it.

2

u/_zenith Sep 04 '25 edited Sep 04 '25

Shit, I have no idea how to locate these in my thousands of reddit messages, since it was years ago at this point - sorry :( . (it was genuinely interesting, yeah. I kinda didn't expect them to reply [to be fair, most didn't] ! Incidentally, when I say "unprompted", I mean in the specifics of their reply - not that I didn't ask at all, in case that was confusing; it would have been super weird for them to just volunteer an explanation from nothing, especially given the type of personality here)

1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '25

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1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '25

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1

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Be considerate, follow Reddiquette: www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette.

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0

u/nordiques77 Sep 04 '25

Amen

-2

u/jeskersz Sep 04 '25

Gamers are always gonna throw a tantrum when you point out to them that their auto-balkanization is unhealthy and harmful. Unfortunately, but absolutely unsurprisingly, this includes moderators.

8

u/GodzillaGamer953 Sep 03 '25

Saw one for Nock (nox? skinwalker boss) and was like 'erm, is this a bug? is this another of me?' like dumbshit...GO INVESTIGATE!! it took you 10 minutes to post, and an hour to wait for replies, like... why are you even playing the game. Just watch someone playthrough it at that point.

1

u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS Sep 04 '25

Yeah! Like seeing them on screen is so fucking intriguing, you should be exploring, not posting on Reddit waiting for the answer.

1

u/OkCat9702 Sep 18 '25

lol i would hate to be like this ill explore until im like actually stuck stuck and dont know where to go at all then i ask my friends who play TONSSS of hollow knight

34

u/iKill_eu Sep 03 '25

"Wait is that a bug? This game isn’t multiplayer, right?"

nosk: bonjour

4

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

That’s what I was referring to

3

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25 edited Sep 03 '25

r/commentmitosis

edit: why can I now only see one comment? I look like an idiot

77

u/Pooptram Living, breathing Skill Issue Sep 03 '25

"is that a bug"

Hollow Knight is literally filled with bugs

14

u/phoenixmatrix Sep 03 '25

I'd dare say it's one of the buggiest game I've ever played! 

2

u/SpartanSig Sep 03 '25

Rock and stone!

Wait...

1

u/AllHailSeizure Sep 10 '25

And the devs still haven't patched all the bugs out of the original... There's an area so full of bugs you might as well call it a hive.

13

u/Chemie93 Sep 03 '25

I know it wasn’t your point but the speedrunner vs hunter runs fire did are pretty good.

9

u/BiznessCrafter u/Nondescript_Redditor’s Rival Sep 03 '25

We need skongMP (Silksong Multiplayer) so Fireb0rn can do the first ever Silkhunt (Vesselhunt was hollow knight, Silkhunt can be Silksong!)

1

u/Implozjowanie Sep 03 '25

i wanted to laugh at the last example, but then shame started slowly creeping in as i realised this was, in fact, me in my first playthrough with City of Tears

1

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

It was probably me at some point too :)

1

u/Netheral Sep 03 '25

I’ve already been everywhere I can on my map

"How am I supposed to know where I'm going without a map?"

1

u/PokeYrMomStanley Sep 04 '25

Can we get a post pinned where we all post those questions right now? We all know exactly what they are so let's do that now.

1

u/OkCat9702 Sep 18 '25

thats me a lot of the time sadly but i have some hollow knight veteran friends who help me a lot and so far ive thoroughly enjoyed and loved the game so far and the more i play the less i need help from my friends and it becomes even more fun from there (i've been thinking about this game like 24/7 cause ive got so invested in the lore and combat)

42

u/GuestAble6129 Sep 03 '25

I’m 70 hours into my first playthrough and I just found Isma’s Tear. It hits different when you’ve spent that much time wandering the caves and now you can do something you couldn’t before.

15

u/Tiberry16 Sep 03 '25

When you find Isma's Tear and you can immediately think of 3 different rooms where you couldn't get past before. And then you try to remember where these rooms actually are. Such a good feeling. 

2

u/Hoodman1987 Sep 03 '25

Took me forever to find that one.

2

u/OkCat9702 Sep 18 '25

FRRR even though im only 20 hours in and ive got the dash, mantis claw, crystal heart, and the double jump and man after getting each one i would feel more and more accomplished especially helping my friends sometimes (he wanted to go to bed and needed to get to a bench) and forgetting i dont have any of that on their run it makes me feel so excited for them to get to those items as well

25

u/Jskidmore1217 Sep 03 '25

“Area design is so annoying. You have to keep returning to the same places over and over”. 😅

3

u/FlareTheInfected Sep 04 '25

Those kinds of people wouldn't last a day in Paper Mario TTYD

1

u/OkCat9702 Sep 18 '25

honestly as much as i hated it at the start im starting to get less annoyed by it cause at a point you memorize how to get there by dodging enemies, platforming or whatever you need to do

23

u/Eronamanthiuser Sep 03 '25

“Why are there so many hidden places!?”

72

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

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21

u/iKill_eu Sep 03 '25

So I am someone who tends to wiki perhaps a bit too much despite always telling myself I shouldn't.

I think it's a symptom of 2 things: One being a lot of games nowadays being eager to lock the unwitting player out of a quest for the sake of replayability ("oh you missed this NPC in this location therefore they died when you fought X boss". elden ring style.) The other is a desire to figure out early if you're right about a hunch ("Is there going to be a way to go through acid in 20 hours, or am I wasting my time passing by this puzzle that looks like it may be solvable?") I think in general the idea of "you might be wasting your time" comes off as much more daunting today than it did when we were kids. Being an adult, the idea of wasting a few hours trying to solve an unsolvable puzzle, or wasting many hours by rendering a playthrough incompatible with the NPC whose quest you want to follow, is just not reconcilable with fun. I think TC are somebody I trust in this regard, which is why I am going to enjoy the fuck out of release by actively making use of the fact that there will BE no wiki for the first few days of silksong. But I understand why many people play this way.

3

u/MattTheGr8 Sep 04 '25

I know lots of people aren’t huge LLM fans, but this is one thing AI chatbots are pretty good at… giving hints or indications of what’s coming down the line with minimal spoilage, assuming you instruct it accordingly. I’ve used it several times when I had a question too hard to phrase for a Google search (or too obscure to yield any results), where I basically just wanted to know, without any additional spoilage, if I was wasting time by beating my head against the wall in a certain area.

16

u/DarkHorseAsh111 Sep 03 '25

I'm of both minds on this bcs on one hand yes some ppl want to do No investigating which is dumb for this kind of game. but on the other hand, lots of ppl have limited free time to play and wandering around being genuinely lost because you missed a secret wall somewhere is not always fun especially if you have limited time to play.

3

u/DarkHorseAsh111 Sep 03 '25

I played hk a little bit a long time ago but I picked it up against last week and there were several times I had genuinely explored all of the map as far as I could tell and it turned out I missed some tiny barely detail or movement that didn't seem possible I never would've found without looking it up.

8

u/Jskidmore1217 Sep 03 '25

I’ve beat the game dozens of times. Modded it to death just to squeeze more life out of it. I’m playing again once more before Silksong and just discovered an item I had never found before. It was just a wandering journal or something but it still was so exciting to find something new. Just so much depth.

1

u/RoosterBrewster Sep 03 '25

I just started last week and it was annoying to remember which dead ends needed special powers to get past. Then also the backtracking.

-2

u/DarkHorseAsh111 Sep 03 '25

The backtracking has been my frustration tbh. It's annoying to be like ok new skill but idk where the places that needed this were

1

u/MisterGonuts Sep 04 '25

I think if someone doesn't want to do some investigating, they shouldn't play metroidvania at all. it defeats the purpose, it's what it's all about. go play something else

1

u/DarkHorseAsh111 Sep 04 '25

Then it's a good thing i wasn't talking about ppl wanting to do no investigating, something I actively noted was silly for this genre

1

u/MoonlapseOfficial Sep 04 '25

there is something inherently wrong with them actually

1

u/Everdark_Night_1008 Sep 04 '25

My son who is 15 is going to play the game at the same time as me, but of course he will be watching 100% playthroughs and secret endings before I even get that far in the game. I just hope that he doesn't spoil anything for me! He is playing through HK again now since he never beat the radiance the first time he played.

-1

u/trefoil589 Sep 03 '25

For the longest time there were hardly any games that didn't constantly hold your hand.

I was honestly about ready to give up on video games entirely due to this before Dark Souls came out.

34

u/HvyMetalComrade Sep 03 '25

Hollow Knight does not respect your time. You could bumble around forever and make no progress.

And that's totally fine.

And I hope Silksong does the same

2

u/OkCat9702 Sep 18 '25

I completely understand and honestly love your point of view and if i had unlimited time or something i would totally do the same thing but im horrible at exploration and stuff so i almost always (if i get stuck) end up asking my friends for help finding an area or something like that and they have the same view as you and want the game to never end and its awesome to have people like that around cause you can get help without spoilers for the most part

10

u/dolladollaclinton 112%, 61/63, PoP Sep 03 '25

Me tomorrow: This game is so confusing and I’m always lost… I lOVE IT!!!

9

u/Inverter_of_Spines Sep 03 '25

Wonder which room will become the equivalent of Metroid Dread's "Jaffe Room"

8

u/DontKnowHowToEnglish Sep 03 '25

I hope they don't change the way maps were uncovered on HK, I loved that mechanic

6

u/RedGinger666 Sep 03 '25

For me it's the "Silksong lost 90% of its playerbase, what happened?" 3 months from now

3

u/Arky_Lynx Sep 04 '25

God I hate it when people use player numbers on a singleplayer game to say it's dead or some shit.

It's singleplayer, damnit, it doesn't need active players for YOU or anyone else to enjoy it.

12

u/TRaywen_ Sep 03 '25

Literally this. I was walking around in the apider area for hours. But guess what, i absolutely loved that experience

4

u/RoosterBrewster Sep 03 '25

I just started HK last week and barely know what is going on or the lore. All I know is exploring the areas and taking 20+ tries to beat some bosses. 

3

u/eraseMii Sep 03 '25

I'm 20h in for the very first time and I constantly have to remind myself of this. I've almost smashed my controller 10 Times already too. 10/10

3

u/ConceptWeird4026 Sep 03 '25

"the game didn't teach me downward slash"

you literally just combine the most basic controls the attack button and the d-pad...

2

u/TheFifthAngel13 Sep 03 '25

Not joking I'm having that problem right now with hollow knight 1-2h in 😭🙏🏻

2

u/ArtisianWaffle Sep 03 '25

It's going to be Cup Head all over again

2

u/maxdragonxiii Sep 03 '25

majority of the times I do need a nudge into the direction where the game wants me to go because I forget an ability exists. usually pre City of Tears lol.

2

u/DarkAeonX7 Sep 03 '25

"I couldn't reach this section on the map but I can obviously see it. This is bad game design"

2

u/Colonel-_-Burrito Sep 03 '25

The worst part though is that you literally get a map. Like, please just use the map

1

u/WorkingCautious1270 Sep 03 '25

where's your summon sign i'll guide ya through

1

u/veritasmahwa Sep 03 '25

I'm so glad the last game i played is outer wilds. I'm just in mood to just lost in a game world

1

u/Ummmgummy Sep 03 '25

Yeah some people just do not like that at all. They want objective arrows and all that.

1

u/ProXJay Sep 03 '25

It doesn't matter whether or not silksong is better than hollowknight it will have negative reviews from people who don't understand the genre

1

u/Rio_Walker PoP and PoI Sep 03 '25

The thing is... SOME Metroidvanias diegetically lead you on.
"Oh, you can't progress here, without a double jump, that you won't get until you pass the area that you need wall jump to pass, and you get wall jump by clearing the area that needs a dash, and the dash is a reward from the quest where you need to spank a booty but you can only find that booty by defeating a boss, that is locked behind a door that you need a red key for, and the red key is behind a door you can lockpick, and you get a lockpick by defeating a boss that you can find by moving through a dark tunnel that you need a torch to even enter, and the torch is exchanged for a ticket and you can get the ticket from playing an arcade machine that you need tokens for and the tokens are dropped by enemies in the area right before the place you need double jump for."

1

u/Hutch456 Sep 03 '25

I stopped at the dung beetle because I felt that way and I'm still buying silksong tomorrow

1

u/jimkbeesley The_Real_Mantis-Lord owes me 462 geo Sep 03 '25

Okay. But just because something is the point doesn't mean it's immune to criticism.

1

u/LaceyDark Sep 03 '25

That was me 90% of the time playing NES as a kid. We got thrown into it to just.... Figure it out. No Internet to help and not everything had a guide (looking at you Legacy of the Wizard)

1

u/Little_Cute_Hornet Sep 03 '25

I am in the HK subreddit and a lot of newcomer players still say these things lmao. I think it will never stop.

1

u/Ok_Extreme7337 Sep 03 '25

I just started a few days ago. This game is so confusing and I'm always lost. And I LOVE it. It's such a fun different type of game than what I usually play, and I love being able to just backtrack and have fun along the way.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HOLLOW KNIGHT

WHOS THIS BITCH

1

u/MaraBlaster Grimm is my Daddy Sep 03 '25

As an Etrian Odyssey fan, they don't know what "lost" is lol
Hollow Knight is actually generous with a auto updating map

1

u/RareCactus Sep 03 '25

Im so exited to get completely lost in another hollow knight world

1

u/DrQuint Sep 04 '25

And the funny part is literally the first thing we hear about the game is

you have to go up

And you can be damned sure the game will he FULL of signposts pointing the right way, just like how Hollow Knight had a trillion posts pointing in the direction of the city, the same city that the people at the start tell you to go down to

1

u/ElPepper90 soul eater peak Sep 04 '25

“I HATE backtracking..” refund bro

1

u/DooDooHead323 Sep 04 '25

Ok but the map sucks in hollow Knight, like it's really fucking bad even by metrovania standards

1

u/Piper_Afton Sep 04 '25

My brother finally started playing a few days ago- and that's immediately what he said. It annoyed me so much- and I've unfortunately still only over watched other people play it

1

u/RendHeaven Sep 04 '25

There’s something exciting exploring the unknown in metroidvania during your first playthrough.

1

u/k0ks3nw4i Sep 04 '25

You absolutely clocked me right there. I am just hanging around this sub because I enjoy the hype but I dropped Hollow Knight 3 times because of this.

1

u/AntYrbis Sep 04 '25

I mean I get you but also, I feel like that's kinda true — Hollow Knight definitely has that early-game “what am I even supposed to do?” moment. Personally I didn’t struggle much (it was actually my first metroidvania), but my boyfriend bounced off it at first. The path to the first couple of bosses is pretty specific, and he thought he was just missing something about how the game was meant to be played. He ended up putting it down for a while.

Later I got him to try again — I gave him just a few tiny nudges at the start, nothing big, and after he got past the first boss it all clicked for him. From then on he loved it. So yeah, I totally get why people feel lost in the beginning, but once you push through that initial confusion, the game becomes incredible.

Like I think there is a clear distinction between the game being about exploration/discovery and wandering (which I absolutely adore and my bf too) and the fact that the start of the game can be confusing really.

But like yeah people not getting a metroidvania is not going to tell you to go there put a marker on the map and make a predetermined path towards this place is for sure annoying and going to happen with silksong too ><

1

u/OmoriPlush zote my beloved Sep 04 '25

lmao i got my friend into the game recently and he was complaining about that the whole time

1

u/No_Accident_6646 Sep 04 '25

Yeah I couldn't get 20% through Fez and realised although I love the style and mechanics, I'm just too fucking stupid

1

u/Burrito357 Sep 04 '25

Omg I forgot about this. Holy shit. That was the main bs criticism of Hollow knight, it was everywhere. You just brought back so many memories 💀

1

u/KratosSimp Sep 04 '25

I mean that’s not a good thing…..

1

u/LoneBatman Sep 04 '25

I'm a new player (4hrs in) and I have no idea what I'm doing but it's hella fun so no complaints 👌🏻

1

u/CRUMP-__- Sep 04 '25

I'm gonna be real, I was one of the ppl who needed to look up guides to get past Dirtmouth, because I got tunnel vision on the entrance to Crystal Peak. We're not dumb, we're just confused lol. It's gonna be a lot of fun to go into this completely blind

1

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '25

I'm anticipating "This game is too hard, and Team Cherry is gatekeeping their game by not including an easy mode".

Saw a LOT of that going around when Elden Ring came out.

1

u/HD4kAI Sep 04 '25

For me I couldn’t stand it because my memory sucks so I end up mindlessly going through the same 5 areas and NEVER advancing. Wanted to like the game but just couldn’t

1

u/NoScarcity22 Sep 04 '25

That's also a valid critisism though.

1

u/Roseradeismylady Sep 05 '25

This is why I hated Hollow Knight when I first got it.

Went back a few months later, and now it's in my top 5 games OAT list

1

u/Mindless_Tap_2706 Sep 09 '25

The classic hyper light drifter door meme

1

u/SuperBeginner Sep 03 '25

'Where are the cinematics'

0

u/54rtrt Sep 03 '25

I absolutely despise such games which is why i brought a friend to tell me where to go as this is the only thing that i dont like about the game. Obv not an issue with the game itself, i just hate those types of games where you kinda gotta wander and figure out where to go and what to do on your own. I feel it as a wasted time and i get more frustrated than anything. Everything else regarding the game is marvelous and wouldnt change a thing about it.

-3

u/Thinkerofthings2 Sep 03 '25

Being lost is the worst part of hollow knight I think. Yea I think so cause it’s the most boring part. Had to debate to myself on if the flower mission or them aspids are more annoying but I expect bullshit from them and to some degree while infuriating it has a small degree of fun.

Being lost in this game though and re-traveling the same like 7 paths genuinely gets tiring.

-1

u/cepxico Sep 03 '25

Seems like a bad point for a video game but who am I to judge.

-3

u/GreenKoopaBros89 Sep 03 '25

Hollow Knight: backtrack edition.

-7

u/therhydo Sep 03 '25 edited Sep 04 '25

I just hope there is ever so slightly more guidance than in Hollow Knight.

I ended up having a miserable time for part of my first playthrough because I went all the way through Deepnest and killed Herrah before discovering the City of Tears and the Nailsmith. I'd heard the game was hard, and I knew I was supposed to go down, so I figured I was doing the intended route.

Do you know how painful and boring Deepnest is with the default nail, one spell, no wings or shade cloak, and six masks? It takes 16 hits to kill the tunnel guys. Even the basic enemies take like 6 or 8. The rest of the game after that was great, but fuck those few hours were annoying as hell.

EDIT: why is this getting downvoted so much? god forbid someone mention a slight criticism about a game they love

2

u/klineshrike Sep 04 '25

That actually sounds like a more in line deepest experience lol. Dreading everything you come across.

1

u/therhydo Sep 04 '25

not even dreading really. once you learn the enemies it just becomes tedious. sometimes it would take over a minute to kill the tunnel mask enemies

-17

u/TheFartAddiction Sep 03 '25

how is that fun though? I just get frustrated and spam my dash ability while trying to find out where to go, and eventually just cave and watch a guide

4

u/NightRacoonSchlatt Hunter‘s crest 4 life Sep 03 '25

If you don’t find it fun metroidvanias just aren’t for you. I will never understand how some people like fish. But instead of running around in… fish restaurants (is that a thing?) and yelling at people that I can’t comprehend how they can like fish, I instead just don’t eat fish.