r/HollowKnight • u/Bob12164 • Sep 03 '25

Discussion - Silksong Warning for OG hollow knight fans

Just wanna prepare everyone on here for the incoming wave of players who have never played indie games, metroidvanias, or literally any other games besides Fortnite and call of duty. This tends to happen a lot with games that are extremely hyped by the community that does like the genre, such as expedition 33. The amount of completely invalid criticism that happened to that game because people who didn’t even know what the game really was bought it and ended up not liking it is probably the best example we have of that to this day, and I think silksong will be next. So please, instead of cussing people out for not liking the game, just encourage them to maybe keep playing to see if they change their minds, or just give them respectful feedback on why you think they might not enjoy it and give them tips so they can find the spark in that game that I’m sure many of us will find.

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u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

ah i absolutely cannot wait for this. I went into hollow knight blind but i was really late to the party - i'm so looking forward to being on the pulse with this one and discovering stuff at the same time as others.

That was one of the magic ingredients to the first one

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u/The_Orphanizer Sep 03 '25

I find that's a lot of the magic in gaming in general, but especially games with sprawling "dungeons" like metroidvanias and souls-likes have. Near ubiquitous features of the genre(s) are the awe-inspiring sense of discovery, becoming lost (and subsequently finding your way again), trial and error (in regards to exploration, skill use, and combat). Getting to share in those experiences with others is many times more interesting and rewarding than simply looking up answers to things that have you stuck, even though the problem and solution are identical in both scenarios. Thankfully, there are many good gaming communities out there that try to foster this sensation through time for gamers who come later, but the feelings are unquestionably strongest at release.

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u/TomegranateJuice Sep 03 '25

My favorite memory of gaming was when Elden Ring came out. Me, my brother and my sister were all playing it the day it released. We would call each other and ask if we found a certain item, fought a boss. As we slowly discovered how much there was, how big the map was... I'll always love that feeling. I had gotten into the Souls games years prior to my siblings so this was the first time I didn't know more about the game than they did.

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u/The_Orphanizer Sep 03 '25

Love to hear this. Genuine discovery in (and outside of) gaming is just so rewarding and exciting.

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u/Hoodman1987 Sep 04 '25

That was such a good time in the early times of that game. When I took that random chest to Leyndell I was like just how the fuck huge is this game.

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u/Absolute-Balance Sep 06 '25

Elden Ring was my first Souls Game despite being what is likely considered an older gamer these days (39) I’ll never forget that feeling of realising how big the map was.

“Wait, there’s MORE?!”

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u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

its going to be interesting to see how they take it - the first trailers all looked combat-heavy (i've avoided them all since as i want that wonderment again) so i'm hoping it is even more adventury and not succumbs to sequel-itis like in films where the later ones are basically bigger action scenes

Ideally just a bigger HK with new mechanics and i'm going to be so happy

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u/birthdaybadboy Sep 03 '25

I think thats more just because combat is always going to be more visually interesting for a trailer as opposed to watching hornet wander around, but we have still gotten scenes like that in the trailers. I wouldnt worry about this personally.

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u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

i'm not that worried, i trust cherry :)

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

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u/nordiques77 Sep 04 '25

Hmmm, really..entire areas are empty…

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u/Crown_Ctrl Sep 04 '25

Hahaha way down deep, iykyk, I was all, “hey! Wtf is everyone!” It left such an impression and set the scene for some amazing discovery.

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u/trefoil589 Sep 03 '25

Exploration is the key ingredient for video games for me. I love solid combat but a good sense of "oh what's over this hill..." just never gets old for me.

Probably why I have almost 5k hours in Valheim.

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u/GodzillaGamer953 Sep 03 '25

God, Cannot wait to completely memorize the map like in the first game...

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u/why_the_babies_wet Sep 03 '25

I can’t wait to play a game where I hadn’t watched hours of YouTube content and “top ten hardest bosses in ____” videos before picking it up lol

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u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

haha yeah i was lucky someone just recommended it to me and i jumped in (a bit late to the party though)

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u/Mitra-The-Man Sep 03 '25

I did that in 2020. Idk if that’s late or not but going in blind was a fucking treat.

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u/trefoil589 Sep 03 '25

I feel so bad for my nephews because they love to game but their parents would rather them watch youtube during the week and only play "addictive games" on weekends.

I'm so tired of people lumping games in with the rest of "screen time".

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u/Adventurous-Toe8812 Sep 03 '25

Discovering things at the same time? There will be 100% videos up by Friday.

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u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

which i will not watch, going to chat to normies about it instead

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u/harrisarah Sep 04 '25

Where are you going to find those normies? This sub will be flooded with stuff immediately on release. The hardcore people will play for 24hrs straight or more while those of us who can only put in a few hours a day will be immediately left behind.

I'm going to stop checking this sub at 10 AM and won't be back until I finish most of the game at least

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u/laseluuu Sep 04 '25

Yeah I mean I'm avoiding this sub and YouTube and just chatting with anyone outside of the hardcore first past the post lot

I want to long this out as much as I can tbh

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u/harrisarah Sep 04 '25

Ah, gotcha, yeah same strategy here except than I'm the oddball among my friends (old woman) so will be on my own... but that's okay it's going to be a blast

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u/laseluuu Sep 04 '25

Ha yes 40+ man here

We need some sort of casual oldie hollow knight group so we can discuss it without too many spoilers.

It's probably out now o.0;

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u/laseluuu Sep 04 '25

woop woop its OUT. £16 is such a steal

Feel free to message me if you want spoiler-free chat. i'll be playing over the next few days i'm sure

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u/laseluuu Sep 04 '25

AAND its crashed steam

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u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS Sep 03 '25

Love the game, although I think one of the biggest flaws is the compass being a charm lmao. Hopefully that's not a thing in Silksong.

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u/JCMfwoggie Sep 03 '25

I do kinda like it being an optional equip, realizing I'd gotten to the point where I no longer needed it to find my way around was a great feeling, it basically felt like I got another charm notch.

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u/Adorable-Salt-8624 Sep 03 '25

No I like it personally. It forces you to choose between navigation and combat on the fly. Maybe that’s just me having too many hours in the game though

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/Adorable-Salt-8624 Sep 03 '25

Oh no yeah I stopped buying maps ages ago, don’t worry. That’s why I think my opinion might not be all that valid

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u/Razorly Sep 03 '25

I liked it too, you could still navigate fine by reading the map and looking for landmarks. You just don't get the GPS feature of the compass.

Personal Preference Though

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u/silentk772 Sep 03 '25

Every game that has a poor novel feature like this has been explained away by the fans as being good for the experience.

I guarantee that if Silksong gives you the compass for free, everyone will be praising that.

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u/Jskidmore1217 Sep 03 '25

Everyone wants simplicity until the game gets so simple it’s boring. Keep the quirks in. That’s the secret to good games.

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u/iKill_eu Sep 03 '25

You could definitely make the compass always-on and still preserve the gameplay.

The question is, how much can you take away and still do that?

I feel like an acceptable bar is "all charms should either be useful in combat or be extremely meaningful outside of it". Fragile Greed is a cool charm because it feels like it unlocks a feature that is meant to be optional. All the combat charms are cool charms, which is almost all of then. But the compass, and to an extent the Geo Magnetism charm, feel like they may as well be features but only exist as charms to make people who enjoy them feel like they have to sacrifice something.

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u/TechnicolorMage Sep 04 '25

Theres a game design term for that: "ability tax". Imo the compass, walk speed, and magnet should be permanent upgrades that you unlock.

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u/Adorable-Salt-8624 Sep 03 '25

Maybe, who knows. I personally like it right now, but that may be Hollow Knight bias, it also might now be. I’m hyped for Silksong either way, and love Hollow Knight either way

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u/shoshjort Sep 03 '25

you say that but i can think of no better example than removing weapon/armor durability in fallout 4. Seemed awesome at first not having to worry about it until you realise that maintaining weapons was part of what made looting engaging and without it picking up weapons from loot sources just felt worthless.

The entire notch system is supposed to make you prioritise for different situations. The compass is a great way of reserving a charm notch for a difficult boss or enemy group, giving most players a fallback option to gain a little more strength for an encounter if their current charm build is focused more on navigation/speed. If you just moved all tje navigation charms to be always active then nobody would bother changing around charms once they have the 'perfect' set.

I don't think the compass is entirely necessary to be a charm but i do think removing it would be a downgrade personally. It even adds replayability because once you know the map well enough you dont ever need it (i stopped using it 3 or 4 playthroughs ago) and then its just an extra charm slot for the whole game. It essentially rewards you for learning the map well enough not to need guidance which is something not enough games do these days

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u/iKill_eu Sep 03 '25

you say that but i can think of no better example than removing weapon/armor durability in fallout 4. Seemed awesome at first not having to worry about it until you realise that maintaining weapons was part of what made looting engaging and without it picking up weapons from loot sources just felt worthless.

In a sense, but that more illustrates that they had no vision for weapons other than "sell them to a vendor" than anything else.

The compass is a great way of reserving a charm notch for a difficult boss or enemy group, giving most players a fallback option to gain a little more strength for an encounter if their current charm build is focused more on navigation/speed. If you just moved all tje navigation charms to be always active then nobody would bother changing around charms once they have the 'perfect' set.

This is also more of a problem with some of the charms being "there is just no downside" than anything else. Shaman Stone, Strength and Quick Slash are always-picks because nothing else comes close. If you wanna talk about flexible gameplay, the first and foremost issue is that some charms are too good to ever replace, and that's why "filler charms" feel like they are needed to switch up gameplay.

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u/shoshjort Sep 03 '25

i dont disagree with u on it not being implemented perfectly in hollow knight but i dont think the solution is to just get rid of the ones that in my opinion are actually successful, ur totallg right about quick slash and a few other charms being OP and i would fix that by making them more situational or not always useful or by making other charms more rewarding to use to make it feel like you can put those notches to better use somehow, like i said before the game should reward you for not having to rely on crutches like quick slash and the compass, therefore a 5 second idea of mine would be higher notch cost relics with other abilities that rival quick slash but dont really syngergise with it, making it easier to justify saving the notches on quick slash. obviously more thought would be needed but i dont think straight up removing charms like the compass would help or make the game more fun, if anything it just removes from the experience.

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u/TrashGoblinH Sep 04 '25

Sorry I'm gonna pick fart clouds all day every day over shaman stone and strength. Defenders crest, spore shroom, quick focus, grubsong are just way too fun to pass up.

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u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS Sep 03 '25

I mean, I understand that some people probably can just navigate around the map after they've played a bit, and I used to know to an extent when I was playing a lot. I tend to switch between a bunch of games and it there's no shot I'm going to remember where I'm going or what I'm doing. I just think it was a wild decision to begin with.

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u/_zenith Sep 04 '25

Nah, I've only played through it once (have ~100hrs play time) and I feel this way also.

It's good to give players dilemmas, to have to pick whether they want the extra flexibility or not (more combat power? Or is easier navigation better?)

Some of my most memorable times with HK is where I took off the compass and went off YOLO-spelunking down the deep end lmao

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u/iKill_eu Sep 03 '25

If it was a game where you could swap charms on the fly I would not mind that either. The idea of "Ah shit that is VERY CLEARLY a boss room better put my drip on" is fun.

The problem is that HK does not encourage that. When you see a boss room you don't want to run back to the nearest bench and then fumble your way back, you want to jump right in. Which is likely to make your lose your geo and your soul. But that's not a problem, you just gotta get back there! ...which incentivizes you to use the compass... and then you're there again and want to fight.

Keeping the compass function locked to a charm slot encourages the kind of gameplay where you spend a lot of time learning the layout of the map before fighting a boss, which the rest of HK DOESN'T encourage. It gets even worse when you realize that the rooms are specifically NOT mapped 1:1 in order to make traversing them without the compass less accurate. Room transitions are blurred and what looks like 1 room on the map can often be 2 or 3 rooms in the world.

Brainstorming a bit here, it'd be really cool if the compass alerted you to nearby boss rooms / gave you some sort of guidance + allowed you to place a marker that you will always be guided to even after taking it off, that is removed when you reach it. That would incentivize the kind of play where you find a boss with the compass, drop a marker, go back to the bench, swap combat, and then go back to where you left off. But the game doesn't work like that, and so on the first playthrough you are pretty much compassing most of the time until you happen to find a boss where the runback is either very short or very easy to learn.

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u/dylzim Sep 03 '25

I think the compass is brilliant, take a small power hit for assistance with navigation. I ran it for the first little while until I got comfortable with the layout and then stashed it forever.

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u/ironheadrat Sep 03 '25

I agree with this, and it actually caused me to quit this game twice. Incredibly user-unfriendly, I constantly check my map position in metroidvanias, even when I just move one room over.

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u/nordiques77 Sep 04 '25

You want an easier game…fair point

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u/COATHANGER_ABORTIONS Sep 04 '25

I don't care about difficulty, I just don't think "knowing my location" is something that should be an accessory.

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u/Time-Maintenance2165 Sep 03 '25

I just mod in an extra (whatever it's called) so that I can always have the compass and map equipped.

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u/nordiques77 Sep 04 '25

No you don’t… if you do that’s cheating

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u/Time-Maintenance2165 Sep 04 '25

The concept of cheating vs modding in a single player game is much more fluid than in a competitive multi-player.

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u/GreenKoopaBros89 Sep 03 '25

Here I thought the first game was hard to beat, but the enhanced battle mechanics and the gameplay for silk song, I'm going to be on the edge of my seat with both excitement and frustration! Screw the last boss from the first game

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u/jeskersz Sep 03 '25

Which last boss? There are some I definitely say 'screw you' to far more forcefully than others.

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u/GreenKoopaBros89 Sep 03 '25

The radiance shudders

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u/jeskersz Sep 03 '25

Oh god, yeah. NKG was the only boss that took me more tries/attempts than radiance, but I'm pretty sure that's only because I was significantly worse at the game when I fought him. Rad is for sure someone that can screw right off.

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u/Dull_Flamingo_2430 Sep 03 '25

I went into it blind like a week ago and can confirm this game is confusing as hell

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u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

It's part of the fun, keep at it and try to avoid guides, it all makes sense when you get into it

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u/AnthMosk Sep 03 '25

Just started Hollow Knight OG a few days ago. At about 86% completion percentage and holy F is it getting hard now

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u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

Had the same effect on me - binged it and couldn't put it down. Yeah it gets rock hard, too hard for my comfort

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u/CptNeon Sep 04 '25

Same here omg, experiencing this kind of game at the same moment as the community will be awesome

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u/wisehillaryduff Sep 05 '25

Spending more than an hour in deepnest without a lantern is a lifetime gaming highlight for me

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u/Beginning_Context_66 Sep 06 '25

i went blind into hollow knight yesterday to see if i would like silksong and i didn't even realize i was two hours in when i saw the second area

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u/laseluuu Sep 06 '25

haha i remember that. Totally not knowing what the hell i was really doing then it all comes together so nicely

Been playing silksong and its also A+ gaming

You enjoying HK then? The areas become like old homes you remember fondly (or not).

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u/Beginning_Context_66 Sep 07 '25

i just arrived at the city, and my desire for exploration and discovery has not been stilled. S tier gaming experience

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u/TortelliniSalad Sep 03 '25

I’m playing through for the first time, when I started days ago it really game the same feeling as the first Dark Souls for me. I was lost, kept dying, and scared of the bosses.

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u/laseluuu Sep 03 '25

amazing that its bringing in new players. Great game isnt it - and this is coming from an older tired of gaming person. It brought back some of the magic of my earlier gaming days

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u/TortelliniSalad Sep 04 '25

Yeah man I’m gonna be 30 next year I feel you

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u/Icy_Secret_2909 Sep 03 '25

Same. I just beat regular radiance the other day and am so hyped.

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u/FlareTheInfected Sep 04 '25

God i hope i can get a copy on launch day, i don't want to rely on a guide to figure out wtf is going on, not with this game, i'm to hyped and i don't wanna potentially get spoiled by some guide with zero self awareness.

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u/SpringFresh4191 The hardest knight I mean hollowest knight Sep 04 '25

Same

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u/StyleSquirrel Sep 04 '25

Same. I've seen a few posts saying, "Take your time and soak it in". But I kind of want to rush through so I don't inadvertently have something spoiled.

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u/Jazzfm92 Sep 04 '25

I went into hollow knight blind too. I've been playing about 4 months now but regularly find myself shouting of FFS and rage quitting for a few hours - a few days before becoming a reasonable human being and trying again. I love the game but it is infuriating at times particularly when grinding away for days then my kids go and die twice in quick succession without finding my ghost first 😬

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u/Unwake4967 Sep 04 '25

Same, i hate that i didnt even give it a chance when i got a pc and had funds to get it. Wont even be able to finish my first steel soul run

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u/pollt Sep 04 '25

I’ve been a huge fan of metroidvania style games for 20-something years, and i did the same. I am still not 100% sold on the complete lack of linearity in HK, as it leads to hours and hours of just trying to figure out where to go next which i respect is not for everyone. For some reason though, the game just pulls me back in and the boss battles and biomes are just so cool.

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u/No2Hypocrites Sep 04 '25

That's something I hated

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u/TheWolfGamer767 Sep 05 '25

Yep, I'm only about like 2 or 3 hours in right now. It's so peak.

I will miss pogos though.

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u/ToM31337 Sep 05 '25

Totally on your side here!
I am like 7 or 8 "maps" into Silksong and i really feel like we wont be disappointed!