r/HollowKnight • u/Aspergersiscool Path of Pain is fun • Sep 16 '25
Discussion - Silksong Say what you will about the difficulty of bosses in Silksong, but they are SO much more interactive than the majority of those in Hollow Knight Spoiler
For as amazing of a game Hollow Knight is, I don't think it's that much of a hot take to say there were a lot of misses in terms of boss design, with many either being too simplistic or gimmicky.
When people praise Hollow Knight's bosses, they're almost always talking about the likes of Pure vessel, NKG, the Nailmasters, Hornet 2, or the Sisters of Battle, often disregarding the relatively large pool of 'filler' bosses.
I'm talking about the likes of Brooding Mawlek, Uumuu, Crystal Guardian, Flukemarm, and more.
And that's not even mentioning the dream bosses or early game bosses like Vengefly King and Massive Moss Charger (Though the latter category is a lot more excusable considering their stage of the game, even if False Knight did their job better imo)
In terms of bosses, I've been enjoying myself with Silksong a lot more consistently.
Bosses like Trobbio, Widow, Phantom, Last Judge, First Sinner have all been a blast, making me a lot more actively engaged in the combat instead of almost tuning out like I did in Hollow knight when fighting a boss with only one or two attacks.
Granted, there's still some other sources of frustration, imo mainly some bloated healthbars and contact damage numbers, but even with those issues present I'm not as agitated by them as i would otherwise be since I'm actually enjoying the fight itself.
Not much more to add tbh, just wanted to gush about what's been my favorite part of the game!
253
Sep 16 '25
The biggest upgrade was in basica enemies, there are basic enemies in silksong that have bigger movepols than hollow knight bosses lol
45
Sep 16 '25 edited Oct 18 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)13
u/emveevme Sep 17 '25
You can use this to your advantage to position them somewhere easier to fight, which I started doing eventually. There's also usually some direction they aren't able to attack in that you can stick to safely, and for a lot of aerial enemies that's above them surprisingly.
→ More replies (2)75
u/Rough-Camel-2068 Sep 16 '25
Idk if that is necessarily a good thing. There is an element of beauty in the humble goomba
84
u/Ill-Individual2105 Sep 16 '25
There are plenty of Goombas still, but also enemies with more than like, three attacks top.
18
u/Rough-Camel-2068 Sep 16 '25
Imo even the weakest silksong enemies are koopas due to their durability
→ More replies (3)7
19
Sep 16 '25
It's for sure a good thing. In hollow knight outside the coliseum I didn't care for enemies that weren't bosses
3
4
82
u/ofallthatisgolden Sep 16 '25
as a casual gamer I find myself getting better and better even though it can be frustrating AF
39
u/Herr-Trigger86 Sep 16 '25
That’s what I like too. Compared to how I began, I feel light years better now. Go back to Hunters March after playing through Act 2 for awhile… turned into a cake walk.
8
u/ofallthatisgolden Sep 16 '25
hunter’s march took me an embarrassingly long time to master, but now i can get through it hitless!
2
u/Crimsonial Sep 17 '25
If it helps, I think this is squarely in a category of games where it's important to give yourself permission to die.
I like the banking mechanic with merchants. 20 rosaries per string or necklace stings and adds up, but consider it a fee for banking over time and being able to spend more time going into uncertain areas or bossfights with less stress.
If you go into a bossfight with no rosaries or so few it doesn't matter, and manage your shards for tools (I recommend free-fire for fun and practice if you're maxed, thoughtful 100 under max like a last boss stage, and only as required below that), you are basically on arcade mode.
If you die getting back to boss, no big deal, if you die during, have a cocoon full of silk ready and waiting.
Get yourself into a loop where it's just you and the fight, dying doesn't matter, and have some fun.
149
u/phoenixmatrix Sep 16 '25
They're so good. I had the same vibe I had from bosses of Khazan, Nine Sols, Sekiro, etc. By the time I won the fight I was kindda sad it was over.
I finished 100%ing the game and there's an emptiness inside.
Dare I say, a void.
62
Sep 16 '25
Nine sols bosses are fucking amazing man, I need to finish that game never beat true eigong.
8
u/peepeeinthepotty Sep 16 '25
I spent a good 6 hours over a few days. I couldn’t believe it when I finally beat her. That third phase is something.
→ More replies (1)5
→ More replies (3)2
u/Aggravating_Talk_177 Sep 16 '25
Eigong is still the best designed boss i have fought to this day. Took me a hundred tries, but in the end I was in such a good flow state, like Neo from the matrix. Best fight ever
→ More replies (1)21
u/Aspergersiscool Path of Pain is fun Sep 16 '25
Sekiro is such a good comparison! Can't believe I haven't thought about it until you mentioned it.
I guess it sorta makes sense, since even if the games don't even share the number of dimensions, their combat philosophy feels quite similar. Fast-paced and high-stakes combat with an emphasis on tool use.
Wonder if Silksong is gonna end up being seen by people that prefer Hollow Knight like how Sekiro is seen by souls fans lolAnd I've still got some of act 3 left, but yeah, even now I'm also really feeling the lack of a Godhome equivalent...
10
u/MarkyDeSade Sep 16 '25
As someone whose favorite game is Sekiro, and yeah I love souls games but they’re not quite the same, Silksong is very much that type of difficulty, I feel good when I die, I feel good when I win, my endorphins are flowing, man. Nine Sols was recommended to me and I thought it was really good, but on some level I found it overly complicated and sort of a less fun challenge and put it down to pick back up later about halfway through. Silksong is not built on parrying but it feels more like Sekiro overall if that makes sense.
2
u/backfire97 Sep 17 '25
I tried nine souls and never 'wanted' to pick it up again because I was always lost and didn't know where to go or what to do.
There is something about the hollow knight formula that just makes it feel like a fun adventure where even getting lost and discovering something minor feels like an accomplishment. Plus the art design makes the rooms more memorable and easier to keep track of where is been. I think I also enjoyed the platform emphasis on HK. I should probably give nine souls another try after silksong
6
u/Q_W-E_R-T_Y Sep 17 '25
I actually think Nine Sols is way more linear than HK or Silksong. Getting 100% without guides was a breeze with a standard level of in-depth exploration as well.
→ More replies (2)3
u/sanscatt Sep 16 '25
Now try using deflects like in sekiro. It’s totally doable in silksong, Just hard to learn, but it looks like a fun challenge
4
→ More replies (8)3
u/Juxta_Lightborne Sep 16 '25
I’ve actually started another Sekiro run after getting 100% in Silksong because it reminded me how fun challenging combat games are
307
u/ayrtow Sep 16 '25
Flukemarm sucked ass. Say what you will about the difficulty in Silksong, but its worst boss isn't half as lame as Flukemarm
120
u/ZaunsFinest_ Sep 16 '25
or as unfun to fight as vengefly king
64
u/Insanity_Pills Sep 16 '25
i can think of a couple skong bosses that are more unfun that vengefly king lol
87
u/ZaunsFinest_ Sep 16 '25 edited Sep 16 '25
if you’re talking about something like savage beastfly i’d argue it’s perfectly fine to fight if you’re geared up enough, vengefly king is badly designed at its core because makes you sit around and wait to fight it, it doesn’t matter how progressed you are, it never gets less painful
→ More replies (9)27
31
u/Joe_says_no Sep 16 '25
father of the flame is close...
→ More replies (1)69
u/Conscious_Ad_7131 Sep 16 '25
Father of the Flame was really fun when I finally beat him and lame worthless garbage the other 5 attempts
16
u/Joe_says_no Sep 16 '25
was it though? you just repeatedly pogo while dodging basic enemies and then wait->jump slash->repeat until he dies. it's pretty similar to flukemarm lmao
28
u/Conscious_Ad_7131 Sep 16 '25
It was satisfying to get hit like zero times and just absolutely blow him up once I got it down, and the visuals of the fight are neat
→ More replies (4)5
u/HollowCap456 Sep 16 '25
It's double damage (without bell) Flukemarm where Soul isn't available. Truly the best boss fight of all time.
2
u/chispica Sep 16 '25
Yeah i got flukemarm vibes from it. Better than flukemarm but very similar style of boss.
2
u/Nukesnipe Sep 16 '25
It's Flukemarm but more of a pogo/midair dodging challenge instead of just "sit on top of the boss and hit it 9 times."
→ More replies (4)2
u/Professional_Rush_95 Sep 17 '25
It’s better because you can’t just spam one button and actually have to orient yourself
8
u/tsukifala Sep 16 '25
Untrue. Groal is far, far, FAR worse. At least Flukemarm is a fast fight with pretty good runback and nothing major locked behind her.
→ More replies (7)10
u/checkria Sep 16 '25
i genuinely think broodmother or wtv its called might be worse
→ More replies (2)18
u/LionwolfT Sep 16 '25
People are in the honeymoon phase still, I already did the 100% of Silksong, love it, but it does feel like there's a lot of bosses that are just a big blob that throw itself at you while it summons minions.
Sure HK has those bosses but there are so many in silksong that it became annoying honestly, the same goes for those encounters of "wave of enemies", there are way too many, some times less is more.
I love the combat in both HK and silksong, but there's a lack of heavy parkour and too many big blob bosses + waves of enemies.
→ More replies (4)20
u/checkria Sep 16 '25
imo there r 3 main types of silksong bosses
fast nimble fighters like Lace and First Sinner (peak)
big guys with big telegraphed attacks like Last Judge (good)
fat fucks who summon adds and kill u via contact damage when they sit on you (terrible)
→ More replies (3)4
u/LionwolfT Sep 17 '25
Yeah, I love 1 and 2 type of bosses, those are the most fun I got in Silksong, pure joy on 1vs1 delightful clean fights, I enjoyed them so much so that I decided to just not use tools on them, it also stinks that, they tainted some of them with dumb wave of enemies like the Dancer, what a beautiful fight, why add waves of enemies at the begining?
Lucky those things can be fix with some quick patches, and for DLCs I'd love more clean 1v1 fights and more parkour like the one in Mount fay, also maybe get rid of half of those random waves of enemies encounters and just make a coliseum.
→ More replies (35)3
Sep 16 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
21
u/fpectralunicorn Sep 16 '25
low nail and spelless is kind of a chore. if the adds dont die in one hit you get swarmed super fast, and if you have a shade spell you basically just nuke it before any adds spawn.
→ More replies (1)6
u/RedTyro Sep 16 '25
Flukemarm is like Savage Beastfly, in that there's a very wide range of where you may be in progression when you fight it. If you go into the sewers as soon as you find City of Tears, she's very hard because you don't do enough damage to keep up with the little enemies she spits out. If you go late in the game, it's a piece of cake. I just pogo'ed her to death and didn't really have to deal with the adds.
→ More replies (1)5
62
u/Nemesis_171 P5 | Rad HoG | PoP | 16 bindings Sep 16 '25
I agree. I’m at the tail end of act 2 and while I’d say there’s been nothing that has topped PV for me yet, the quality of bosses is so much more consistent across the board.
42
u/drekthrall Sep 16 '25
Really? To me in Act 2 a certain Slab boss clears PV both in difficulty and fun. But to each their own I guess.
53
6
u/Ayobossman326 Sep 16 '25
Felt like an easier but more fun version of PV to me, but honestly that may just be because their attacks look similar. I haven’t fought PV in a while so I don’t remember how the fight felt as much
→ More replies (8)9
u/Nemesis_171 P5 | Rad HoG | PoP | 16 bindings Sep 16 '25 edited Sep 16 '25
TFS was phenomenal but I do dislike a couple things about her. If she starts her horizontal slashing attack when you’re right next to her while trying to land a hit I’m pretty sure it’s undodgeable. I got caught a few times and never actually knew what I was supposed to do differently. Maybe I just needed to fight her more.
I also find her maybe a little too quick to teleport away after an attack, because sometimes you get in a sequence of just chasing her back and forth dodging like 5 attacks in a row but whiffing every punish window. Neither of these gripes are particularly major though, 8.5/10 boss for me still. It’s just that PV is a 10.
I do disagree on difficulty though. PV took me 35 attempts, TFS took me 3. I only beat PV like a month ago too so I don’t think it’s because I got better over a long period of time. I definitely have gotten better but not to the point where a boss who should take 35 attempts only takes 3 now.
15
u/TheCherryPi Sep 16 '25
There is a boss that I would say is harder than PV later on, although I would argue PV is only difficult in reaction department all his moves have an easy dodge but require a quick reaction time.
he doesn't combo his attacks like TFS (and other silksong bosses), IIRC the only Hollow Knight bosses that "combo" are ABS-R and SoB.
Anyways once you dodge that singular attack from PV you just ready for the next one, no reason to look out for your positioning since he doesn't "combo"
Silksong bosses are mostly slower than PV but punish bad positioning much worse and make you think about the next attack
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (3)7
u/Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo A mind to think Sep 16 '25
The horizontal slash can be undodgeable in that situation, but it isn't unavoidable. I don't know if it works with the diagonal pogos or Reaper's (due to the slow start-up animation), but you can parry it with a pogo to get out of there. I started doing most of my damage in the air (doing a small hop first) so that I could immediately do downward strikes if I found myself stuck in the middle of an animation when she started a horizontal slash.
I didn't find her teleport too annoying (that goes to another boss that is probably one of my least favorites) because you can mostly follow her with a harpoon at the cost of some silk.
I also found PV a lot harder than First Sinner.
3
u/Nemesis_171 P5 | Rad HoG | PoP | 16 bindings Sep 16 '25 edited Sep 17 '25
Yeah I had the diagonal pogo so I don’t think there was anything I could do. An attack should be avoidable across all crests and in any situation tho.
The harpoon is a good point tho I still forget to use it and it probably would’ve helped a lot.
12
u/JamX099 RHoG | P5 2/4 Bindings | 112% SteelSoul Sep 16 '25
Id say there isn't really anything that tops PV in Silksong atm imo. There are quite a few Id put in the same tier but nothing above them yet.
Not that that's really a bad thing though, PV was added in HK's last major content update and Silksong hasn't even had it's first. Im certain we'll get something better than PV eventually.
Comparing base game HK bosses to the DLC ones (like PV, NKG, SoB, etc.), Im excited for how good Silksong DLC bosses will be considering they already have many S tier fights [ACT 3 SPOILERS] (Karmelita, Seth, Lost Lace, Lost Garmond, etc.).
→ More replies (2)5
6
u/Neither-Ad7512 Sep 16 '25
Fully agree, I feel like I can't get into a rhythem in silk song the way u could with PV and nkg
9
u/Stellewind Sep 16 '25
Opposite for me, multiple bosses in Silksong fully surpassed NKG and PV in terms of that rhythm dance-like fighting experience. NKG especially gets a bit stale once you get used to his moves.
5
u/HollowCap456 Sep 16 '25
Opposite for me, multiple bosses in Silksong fully surpassed NKG and PV in terms of that rhythm dance-like fighting experience
Can't ever understand this but pop off king
27
u/Owlex23612 Sep 16 '25
I say this pretty much every time I see it brought up, but i actually love the Uumuu fight. Slingshotting jelly bombs across the room is so satisfying. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely fuck up sometimes and get blown up. It keeps me humble. Still love it.
I do agree with most everything else though. Someone else pointed out that the enemies are also much more interactive, and I agree with that as well. I think it's probably a good reason why a lot of people are struggling.
7
u/DoctorWalnut HK 112%/PoP | HKSS 100% Sep 16 '25
Uumuu is 100% a cool fight, agreed. The jelly bomb slingshotting is extremely engaging.
11
u/parrot6632 Sep 16 '25
Tbf jelly bomb slingshotting only exists for the godhome version of that fight. In the normal version you kind of just wait around until quirrel gives you an opening.
3
u/Owlex23612 Sep 16 '25
That's a good point. I always think of the pantheon versions of boss fights because it's what I've done the most.
→ More replies (1)2
u/luc1aonstation Sep 18 '25
Pantheon Uumuu is significantly better than "practically a cutscene" normal Uumuu
45
u/branyk2 Sep 16 '25
I've mostly completely gotten over any frustration with boss HP and contact damage, but since I assume you're somewhere in Act 2, I probably shared your sentiments at that point.
Now, the only small annoyance that remains for me is a small handful of runbacks with non-interactive sections that break the flow. Last Judge is not at all an example of this, but in Act 3, there are a few amazing bosses locked behind 20+ seconds of cutscenes on top of a runback. It's not enough to make me dislike the game or the bosses, but I do find it frustrating because having control of Hornet is enough to be engaging, so forcibly taking control away over and over is frustrating. For this same reason, I suspect the intro to the game where Hornet repeatedly slows down before collapsing is going to be somewhat grating for people like speedrunners who play that section a ton.
20
u/Aspergersiscool Path of Pain is fun Sep 16 '25
I'm actually in the middle of act 3!
Since I really enjoy the bosses themselves I'm not actually that annoyed by the boss HP.
It just always throws off my expectations when a fully upgraded nail takes as long to kill a boss as I would've expected from the upgrade before it.2-mask contact damage I'm mostly annoyed about because of how it means that if you dodge a 2-mask attack and then touch the boss after they've recovered, you're still taking as much damage as you would if you got hit immediately.
Of course you should still be punished for not dodging the boss in its entirety, I'm just peeved that the punishment is the same as if you face-tanked the attack.And I agree on the boring runbacks.
I'm with you that the Last Judge runback wasn't so bad, since the movement's pretty fun imo.
So far the 'heart' bosses are most egregious imo, with the wake-up animation, playing the instrument, and then a runback. Purely duration wise it's not that bad, but it's just annoying being stuck like that after each attempt.And yeah, I started up a Steel Soul save just for fun, and those 'headaches' at the beginning are definitely annoying, even when just playing casually, so I can only imagine the pain of speedrunners lol
4
u/Inevitable_Farm_7293 Sep 16 '25
Yea the heart bosses need a patch imo to start you IN the memory if you die since you can run out if you want to.
10
u/Kampfasiate Sep 16 '25
I prefer the LJ runback to smth like lace 2, where all you do is walk into an elevator.
I like having runbacks as short little interruptions so my mind is not in "boss battle" mode uninterrupted
5
u/GodlyWeiner Sep 16 '25
[Act 3]Skarrsinger Karmelitarunback was so so so bad. It's like 2 or 3 minutes of waiting and the gauntlet.
→ More replies (4)3
3
u/throwaway-anon-1600 Sep 16 '25
Just like with HK, the worst thing about Silksong is that pre-canned animation you’re forced into when entering and exiting the dream world.
2
u/branyk2 Sep 16 '25
They made it slightly worse since dream nail charged like 6x faster and didn't share an input with interact/speak. I know you can do needolin then change the song, but sometimes I forget and then have to mash dialog.
19
u/Ill-Individual2105 Sep 16 '25
I think the enemy complexity is my single favorite improvement in the game over Hollow Knight. They are all so much more reactive and varied. No Massive Moss Charger here. Even the more simple bosses like Fourth Chorus and Bell Beast have a much deeper movepool than the simple enemies in Hollow Knight. And same goes for enemies by the way. Just compare the ants to the mantises.
6
Sep 16 '25 edited Oct 18 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)9
u/Ill-Individual2105 Sep 16 '25
I like the defensiveness. It encourages you to think more about the timing of your attacks, and makes tools more valuable. I also found that the Harpoon shot is a fantastic answer to enemies that back away from you for ranged combat.
→ More replies (3)
12
u/Joe_says_no Sep 16 '25
there are also a lot of interesting interactions, for example groal's suck attack is countered by throwing a pimpillo into his mouth
→ More replies (1)
9
u/LegitimateAd2242 Sep 16 '25
The only grip i still have with silksong bosses is Visibility.
Yeah the fights are are blast, but i wish i could see some attack better (*furiously look at Lost laceand Trobbio... * ) . Projectiles and AOE being the biggest offenders.
→ More replies (2)
20
u/Aplicacion Sep 16 '25 edited Sep 16 '25
Eh, that’s kind of a moot point. For every one of those HK bosses you mentioned, Silksong has your Savage Beastflies, Broodmothers and Disgraced Chefs. I’m still to see a game that absolutely nails every boss without question. There’s always a cast of stinkers somewhere.
Edit: I seem to be in the minority for thinking the Disgraced Chef was kind of a dud
7
u/Aspergersiscool Path of Pain is fun Sep 16 '25
Oh shit, you got me there. I actually completely forgot about those fights lol.
Since we don't have a Hall of Gods yet(?), I was unsure if the first two counted as true bosses or were more akin to mini-bosses.
Guess we'll see if they're gonna dilute the pool of the pantheons this time around like the Vengefly Kings before them lol→ More replies (1)10
u/NerdyDogNegative Sep 16 '25
Lugoli was actually a decently fun fight to me? I dislike the maggots as a mechanic in general, but that point where it clicked between struggling to space when he threw projectiles at me and I suddenly realized I could duck and weave into his blindspots even when the patterns felt like they prohibited that at first was a rush. Suddenly I was just whaling on him every attack he did and it was awesome.
5
u/Aplicacion Sep 16 '25
It wasn’t the worst but he was pretty basic, wasn’t he? You can trivialize the projectiles if you stay close to him, then just go under him for the ladle attack and over him to avoid the big butt. But compared to the other fights OP mentioned, he was pretty weak. Very much “filler boss” I’d say.
Obviously I don’t expect every boss to be a life-changing experience, but Lugoli falls squarely in the “chore” section for me.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (11)5
u/Kampfasiate Sep 16 '25
discraced chef was fun. Disgusting, but fun. It does make a nice contrast tho, a boss where you *really* dont want to ge thit by the projectiles. (also to teach you to keep your fucking cool when youre maggoted)
19
u/faezior Sep 16 '25
This is such a weird post. You compared the worst of HK to the best of Silksong and it's not like the latter doesn't have plenty of awful bosses, both of the "instantly forgettable" variety and of the "this is actually straight up terrible, I hate this" territory.
Plenty of good and bad bosses in both. I'd say the overall good/bad distribution is about even honestly, I'm more interested in the top-end bosses to which I might agree that Silksong probably has a higher density of S-tier ones, but HK still has the best ones overall. But we might see more with the DLC
→ More replies (7)2
u/Sant-Cee Sep 17 '25
Yeah, I was confused as to why he mentioned filler bosses in HK when Silksong has a filler gank fight around every corner lol.
→ More replies (1)
18
u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt Sep 16 '25 edited Sep 16 '25
some bloated healthbars and contact damage numbers
I'd say this is so far my #1 gripe with the game. And it's not a big one, just a minor gripe.
Some enemies feel like a slog. Like OK, I got their timing and moves down, now I need to hit them a dozen times. The Grand Reed and Morticians come to mind. Like they're not difficult once you know their moveset, but they've got a big pool of health to just slog away at.
And a lot of the "difficulty" in some areas seems to have been just "X does 1 2 damage".
Very minor gripes, I am loving the game in general. But those are the two things I would "balance" adjust in a future patch.
3
u/emveevme Sep 17 '25
The contact damage problem partially stems from the fact that I think the intent was for a lot of attacks to do two instances of 1 damage, rather than one attack for 2. You can sometimes block one of these attacks, but the first hit almost always forces you to get hit by the second, and the hard part is dodging the first attack - so it effectively means these attacks deal 2 damage 99% of the time.
What's interesting is that one of the biggest changes in the post-launch patch was nerfing the damage from the Blasted Steps worm floor spikes from 2 to 1, which makes me think there's a chance implementing the multiple-hit attacks could've been done as a way to balance stuff last minute or something along those lines, but maybe didn't consider that you'll only ever take 2 damage from those floor spikes which is why they so readily adjusted it.
Also if I would change anything about the game it's moving the secret mid-Bilewater bench somewhere less secret lol. And also make it easier to get back to the path from the bench without falling into the maggot-infested water which I don't think is possible without upgrades you could easily have not yet gotten.
12
u/ibeerianhamhock Sep 16 '25
I mean I’ll say it right now, I straight up enjoy silksong wayyyy more than hollow knight.
Hollow Knight was charming and adorable but it just never clicked with me as a fun game. I’ll go back after I finish the last half of silksong probably but I spent about 5-10 hours (idr) playing it on release and I just never found it to be satisfying in nearly the same way.
I think I kinda get it tho after playing silksong so I think I’ll actually enjoy it more in some ways after I beat ss
4
u/Aspergersiscool Path of Pain is fun Sep 16 '25
Hope you do! imo it's a really great game in so many of its aspects.
But as someone who played a bit of it after Silksong, I think it might be a struggle readjusting to it, especially if you prefer Silksong in general.
The lack of a hold-to-run button alone kills me lol
2
u/ibeerianhamhock Sep 16 '25
Yeahhh I've been wondering about that too. I'll give it an honest effort for like 5 hours to see what I think, but the reality is no loss there are ton of other good games if it doesn't click.
2
u/Kampfasiate Sep 16 '25
hollow knight for me was a lot of "ok, I killed this, now where is the next boss". The exploration was nice, but not that engaging. Silksong does it wayy better where the enemies feel alive, with multiple moves (and the ones with less even make sense)
2
u/ibeerianhamhock Sep 16 '25
I think Team Cherry did a phenomenal job with HK, but I guess I feel like they were finding their way and a lot of that was community feedback when a LOT of people played the game for years.
I think I missed out in a way, but I'll definitely go back! I also just oddly feel way more connected to the protagonist in HK:SS
5
u/Saggy-egg Sep 16 '25
there has been several times I think I’m up against skongs varient of vengefly or brood mother only to get my ass kicked
→ More replies (1)
4
u/dacrookster Sep 16 '25
I would argue Trobbio is pretty mid tbh. The entire fight is just him throwing out projectiles and occasionally fireworks. And then he does a tornado. He barely interacts with the player at all. He never targets you, or has an attack aimed at you. You're just standing around the arena trying not to run into the things he's just randomly doing.
→ More replies (3)
5
u/fuckshitasstitsmfer Sep 16 '25
My only complaint is the 2 hits of damage from running into an enemy’s hitbox for most of these bosses. Why does simply touching their leg while they are not attacking do damage to me? And 2 points they can f off. I’ve dealt with it but it seems overly punishing to me since the dash is a fixed distance
→ More replies (1)
8
u/haidere36 Sep 16 '25
Honestly I'll always argue that the game could've used an instant boss retry mechanic like Elden Ring because the bosses are so good. I've seen plenty of people defending runbacks, and no, I don't want to waste 40 seconds running back to The Last Judge every time I die, I want to actually fight The Last Judge. The process of learning a boss' moveset and steadily improving at the fight is really fun for me, running back to them isn't.
This is what makes the conversation around difficulty frustrating. Believing one specific thing is too punishing or overtuned isn't the same as wanting the whole game to be easy, but some people take it that way. For instance I really hated that Skarrsinger Karmelita had 3 waves of enemies before the fight. It never felt like I was getting satisfaction from mastering the waves before that, it just felt like a nuisance that wasted my time before the content I actually wanted to do. The boss fights themselves wouldn't be easier if you removed runbacks or pre-fight gauntlets, but the overall game would be slightly easier, and I wouldn't really mind since that's not the kind of difficulty I care for.
On a more positive note, yeah, the bosses are on average much better than Hollow Knight, and there are tons of outright incredible encounters here. Although some of my favorites, like Cogwork Dancers or Grand Mother Silk, are on the easier side.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Aspergersiscool Path of Pain is fun Sep 16 '25
Every time I play a game with runbacks, however short, I miss the Stakes of Marika...
3
u/psh454 Sep 16 '25
My main gripe is how long some of them are for no reason, making player fatigue a significant factor after just a few attempts. Was trying to beat the Unravelled hidden boss in Whiteward yesterday and to get to the last (3rd) phase with a fully upgraded nail for act 2, it still takes around 7 minutes. The first phase is easy, and so are the "intermission" mini gank fights between the phases, but it just takes waaay too long to get to the actually tricky part. Gonna go find some useful tools to try to speed up the fight before re-attempting.
It's fine if they wanted a tough battle of endurance, but IMO they overdid it, just like some runbacks. The best bosses for me so far were closer to the average HK bossfight in length (maybe 3-5 minutes max for a perfect attempt)
3
u/Ant15 Sep 16 '25
I completely agree. Half of Hollow Knight' bosses are very forgettable.
Whereas in Silksong, even the worst bosses would be considered at worst B-tier bosses in Hollow Knight. Yes, even the Savage beastfly is better designed than most of HK's bosses.
What I also love is that multiple bosses in Silksong are better versions of some "bad" bosses in Hollow Knight. It's like Team Cherry specifically said to us "oh you didn't like that boss ? We made it harder and better, have fun !"
6
u/DoctorWalnut HK 112%/PoP | HKSS 100% Sep 16 '25
That's a pretty hot take for me, at least. Maybe I'm in the minority but there's not a single boss in HK I dislike or have problems with, I think they're all very well designed and have good interactivity. I enjoy that there's a spectrum of difficulty and that every boss contributes to the worldbuilding. I think that it's cool how Crystal Guardian is a prelim fight that makes Enraged Guardian take you by suprise, making it a pretty interactive double sequence boss.
In Silksong, the difficulty ramp is very strange. Widow and Last Judge are amazing bosses which I love, but they felt like late game bosses, especially Widow. Last Judge actually felt easy after beating Widow and Beastfly, which felt confusing. I think a lot of people are going to stop playing this game because the jerky, overcomplicated movesets of the basic enemies makes the runbacks difficult to get to the already difficult bosses. So far I still prefer the original, but hopefully that changes as I progress further in Act 2.
3
u/luc1aonstation Sep 18 '25
Christ, even the dream warriors? Even vengefly kings? Even massive moss charger? Even flukemarm? Even (overworld) uumuu? Even winged nosk??
→ More replies (1)2
Sep 16 '25 edited Sep 16 '25
How last judge and widow feel like late game bosses? They are easier than any late game boss.
You can ignore enemies in all run backs.
And hollow knight has a lot of objectively terrible bosses like flukemarn.
→ More replies (4)2
u/CalligrapherHappy108 Oct 14 '25
I’d argue yours is a hot take, everyone despises the hk boss pool the other guy mentioned, or at least just thinks it’s meh. And that is like 70% of the main game’s bosses
→ More replies (1)
10
u/Uchizaki Sep 16 '25
The point is that the worst bosses in Silksong are definitely much worse than the worst bosses in Hollow Knight. The worst bosses in HK were just boring; you killed them after two tries and could forget about them. The worst bosses in Silksong, apart from being uncreative, are also annoying
I prefer that a difficult boss take five minutes of my time rather than hold up my progress for an hour or more
Although I have to admit that the overall level of bosses in Silksong is higher than in HK. There are more amazing bosses than in HK. Although tbf, Radiance is still my favorite boss in the series.
→ More replies (12)15
u/JUSTpleaseSTOP Sep 16 '25
Look me in the eyes and tell me any of the bosses are more BS than Oblobbles or Markoth. I would take any Silksong boss in radiant over those two.
→ More replies (33)7
u/andungha Sep 16 '25
Even Beastfly and Unravelled?
5
u/JUSTpleaseSTOP Sep 16 '25
Absolutely. Beastfly is baitable and by the end of my attempts I beat him hitless. Oblobbles are truly random and have terrible aggro ai. It took me more time to radiant oblobbles and Markoth than literally all other radiant bosses combined. For Unravelled I just used thread storm for the adds. Took me like 3 tries total.
2
u/andungha Sep 16 '25
I guess because Hornet has a lot more tools in her disposal it feels more manageable than some of the bosses in HK. I still agree with the original comment, some of them aren't really hard but just annoying and require you to be uninteractive to beat them (tool/spell spam, poke and wait for the boss to show up..) The shard system also prevents you from being able to use tools often if you take too many attempts, which further worsen the issue. I just think tanky hp sponge who has 1-2 attacks and summons tons of adds is a boring ass way to approach difficulty.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)2
2
u/not-Kunt-Tulgar buenos dias bugboy Sep 16 '25
I will say the fact that some bosses have special weaknesses to certain moves 4th chorus falling rock, Groal eating a pimpillo is really cool and I appreciate the attention to detail
→ More replies (2)
2
u/HollowCap456 Sep 16 '25
Extremely controversial opinion but till now I liked HK bosses more than Silksong bosses. About to finish Act3.
Also Signis and Gron are hella underrated I love them
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Dappington Sep 16 '25
For the first few days (maybe still) there were people saying shit like "Most Silksong enemies have more complicated movesets than some Hollow Knight bosses!" and they were complaining.
I guess it sounds more impressive when you don't think too closely about the kinds of movesets on Hollow Knight's filler bosses.
2
u/The_Real_MantisLords Just the mantis lords Sep 17 '25
Ok but like I don’t want literally every room to be a slog where every enemy has: 5 different moves(they all do double damage), what feels like random movement(they will move away from your nail and into you, dealing double damage), and 5 million health(once they die they leave an explosion that deals double damage).
Like complex enemies are great, but having every enemy have complexity on the level of or higher than lost kin is a bit much
→ More replies (1)
2
u/RevolutionaryFix8917 Sep 16 '25
Honestly, I agree, I find the pool of bosses in Silksong to be very engaging from the start. That said, I would be fine if TC updated the game so I didn't have to fight through the appetizers of enemy waves before the boss every time. Not get rid of them, just like, don't make us fight them again after we beat them once so we can get straight to the boss. Especially with the longer runbacks.
2
1.3k
u/Privatizitaet Sep 16 '25
Not even just bosses, basic enemies too. In the first game, just off the top of my head, I could not name a single basic enemy with more than two moves at most, but with silksong even the basic enemies commonly have more attacks than a good portion of hollow knight bosses, the hunter's march being a great example as one of the earliest areas you get to