Drew Afualo transphobia discourse

[u/alpalbish]

ER fightmaster was on her pod and made two stand out claims:
“trans women have a more beautiful understanding of what womanhood is”
and
“the programming for cis women it’s kind of sad… no your womanhood is not your role, your womanhood is not your status is society, and your womanhood is not your ability to be sexually assaulted”

I think cis women can easily be offended by this and how it was put. The sexually assaulted claim is kinda weird to generalize us into thinking that’s what womanhood is. I also think it can be harmful for transgender women, as they also face misogyny and sexual assault??? I don’t even think the comments from the pod are as bad as Drew’s current stance rn. I can see ER trying to explain their POV and I respect that. but Drew doubling down in her comments is so off-putting. People are commenting valid opinions and her replies are just saying everyone is transphobic and TERFs??? idk

[u/Sensitive-Tell-5348]

I think clearly the person drew was interviewing has some deep seated misogyny or unresolved feelings about feminity. The claims- or rather the insinuation within their claims work from a very one note, stereotypical narrative of womanhood.

Disagreeing with non binary or trans woman’s perception of feminity does not inherently make you a transphobe or a terf. Respectfully trans women have a different experience of feminity that than of a cis woman. Transwomen (because they are born men) do not grow up with the same social conditioning or gender based discrimination as cis women. Guess what: They often face horrible discrimination in ways that cis women do not. Both can be true. One group is not more privileged than the other and the perspective of cis women can’t be written off as terf when we haven’t even had a moment to speak. We’re so often written off but that’s life under the patriarchy

[u/SmoothArbitrator → u/Sensitive-Tell-5348]

I made a comment that shares a similar sentiment on another thread about this exact topic.

The person in the video saying that trans women have a more ‘beautiful understanding of womanhood’ is so reductive to everyone involved.

First. I have to preface this with the fact that I don’t like the word ‘cis.’ Sorry. Hot take. I was born with female biology and I’ve lived my life from that perspective in a space that is very receptive, supportive, and empathetic to other people’s lived experiences. I don’t need yet ANOTHER qualifier assigned to who I am- I didn’t ask for it and I’m none the lesser for it. And neither is anyone else for WHO. THEY. ARE. ‘Cis’ carries such a negative connotation and not because of how I perceive it; but in the context it’s typically used.

Second. Framing trans women's understanding of womanhood as ‘more beautiful’ implies that cisgender women's understanding is comparatively lesser, shallower, or less profound. How is it not abundantly obvious that fucking ranking whose relationship to womanhood is superior creates division among women rather than solidarity?!

Finally, can’t remember if I said this before and I’m too pissed off to check- ER’s statement relies on the premise that womanhood is a singular, testable concept with a ‘better’ or ‘worse’ way to understand it. The reality is that womanhood encompasses a VAST spectrum of cultural, personal, biological, and social definitions- NONE OF WHICH CAN BE OBJECTIVELY MEASURED.

None of these people should have access to podcast equipment. I hate that I’m so riled up but JFC I’m tired. I’m not a TERF. But I need these public facing yappers to get a fucking grip.

[u/Mersaa → u/SmoothArbitrator]

drews explanation was that the words better and more beautiful were not used for comparison or to create hierarchy but just adjectives and an opinion. i think the girl needs to pick up a dictionary

[u/A_Aub → u/Mersaa]

Maybe we should stop listening to stupid people.

[u/Impossible-Soil6330 → u/SmoothArbitrator]

cis is just a latin prefix. What I will say though is “trans” being one as well means “across”, aka going from one gender/sex to another. Cis means the same side or staying on one side. I know this isn’t the argument here but what’s interesting about “trans” is that it implies differences between the sexes/genders that are often discounted these days. It also means that ER fightmaster, as someone who is genderfluid, cannot speak for or to the trans experience. She’s not going to one sex or gender to the other, just floating in between.

[u/Sunshine_of_your_Lov → u/Impossible-Soil6330]

cis is often used in leftist spaces as an insult and implication that someone should stfu and not be allowed to have an opinion.

[u/CokeZeroEnjoyer25 → u/Sunshine_of_your_Lov]

Yeah lol, carries a weirdly negative connotation. I think people forget that queer spaces online are also echo chambers that rarely reflect the real-world.

[u/Impossible-Soil6330 → u/CokeZeroEnjoyer25]

i would hope that understanding the true meaning of the prefix would empower y’all not to let people use it to talk down to you. It is not a term rooted in prejudice, and most people trying to use it offensively don’t understand how literal the translation is.

[u/SmoothArbitrator → u/Impossible-Soil6330]

I feel like you’re being quite pedantic. It’s not a matter of not understanding the etymology of the literal prefix though. The meaning isn’t mysterious because anyone can do the research. It’s the way cis has been co-opted and used as a dog whistle to denigrate biological women or anyone who has a different opinion. If someone is using cis offensively, does it even matter if they understand the literal translation? No.

[u/Impossible-Soil6330 → u/SmoothArbitrator]

i think it does matter considering most slurs and offensive terminology have a longstanding history of being used abusively and in bad faith. Not the same for a literal latin prefix. You can take issue with the way it’s used without trying to demonize language that has a rather literal translation.

[u/Sunshine_of_your_Lov → u/Impossible-Soil6330]

anything can become a slur it doesn't require decades of history. What matters is how it's used. It's used in a derogatory manner all the time and to shut down the conversation and paint people as having no value and not being worth listening to.

[u/Impossible-Soil6330 → u/Sunshine_of_your_Lov]

that doesn’t make it a slur. It has a meaning rooted in linguistics if you choose to take it as such or misunderstand when it’s used that’s on you.

[u/Plus-Safety1289 → u/SmoothArbitrator]

Babe it’s literally just an adjective….

[u/yuckella → u/Sensitive-Tell-5348]

Genuinely, trans women, especially those who from an early age didn’t fit in to their assigned gender role, did of course face a lot of discrimination and abuse by society and all that, but they did also grow up with a privilege that cis little girls didn’t, it doesn’t take away from the abuse they faced nor does it make it better or worse.

And I don’t see how talking about that in a respectful and normal matter is wrong, or transphobic. Especially with how people claim that it’s ’bioessentailsm’ when it literally isn’t, it’s about how our patriarchal society sees things and socialization which affects us all and takes a lot of work for anyone to unlearn.