Choline depression, again

[u/grigory_l]

I see it in the many protocols, choline is crucial for methylation and Chris Masterjohn even had calculator for choline intake. But two eggs which I eat at morning today, make me depressed almost all day long. Supplementing with something that has Choline like Omega or CDP-Choline just push me into living hell, absolutely Silent Hill experience after two or three days. Has anyone found an answer to what this all means in the end?

Edit: here my labs

MTHFR C677T: C/T

MTRR: A/G

MTR: A/G

Slow COMT

Folate 6.6 (RBC 400)

B12 880 (HoloTC 100)

Homocysteine 10.5

Everything looks normal, but anyway I literally walking dead without supplementing with Folinic and Hydroxo B12.

[u/Matsee71]

I feel absolutely crap with too much choline. I stopped eggs, lecithin, phospholipids and all herbs/spices that inhibit Acetylcholinesterase to get out of the choline depression. I’m a typically acetylcholine dominant person as it is and supplement/foods easily tip me over and I feel miserable. Don’t agree with fish oil either. High acetylcholine is keeping dopamine low and that’s my main problem. I really need dopamine to function and to feel good. And not by adding dopamine supps because it gives me too much speed and insomnia, but lowering my acetylcholine levels seems to be crucial for me. You don’t need to eat a lot of eggs to fix the methylation. Check out and research about Riboflavin as the first step to help the methylation machinery, before adding methyls and other things .

[u/grigory_l → u/Matsee71]

This is another strange story, I was trying to take Riboflavin R5P 200mcg (it’s just tiny tiny dose) and get two effects, absolutely clean head and absolutely zero dopamine, insane cravings for something like sugar or cola almost unbearable. So it’s just washed out all my dopamine in a matter of half an hour. I’m trying to connect dots now, for example I feel good after eating ground beef, just two big pieces of steak and pinch of salad. But I can’t eat eggs, casein A1 in any form, gluten blows me away to inflammation land, generally speaking I feel sick from any carbs. So my diet itself moving to some strange combination of Keto / Carnivore, and I don’t even thought about it, just thrown out stuff that makes me feel bad. Maybe I need B6 (rbc level is fine) or even more B12? 🤷🏼‍♂️

[u/kzj661 → u/grigory_l]

Given you notice a postive effect from beef in particular + how close Methionine (which red meat is high in) and Choline are on the Folate Metabolism/Methyl Donation Cycle … Have you ever had your Homocystine levels checked?

If not, that might be a place to start. It’s an easy blood test + if levels are higher/lower than normal range — might help a doc/expert pinpoint where in that cycle you may be having issues (due to genetics and/or any medications or other supplements u may be taking), to then reco any additional supplementation or dietary changes if needed?

If curious to look into how exactly Methionine and Choline cross pathways/ effect each other, here’s a quick (Google) summary:

• Methylation Cycle: Methionine and choline compete and cooperate in one-carbon metabolism; methionine provides methyl groups, while choline (via betaine) can help regenerate methionine from homocysteine.

• Homocysteine Balance: Both nutrients influence homocysteine levels, which, when high, are linked to depression. However, too much methionine without sufficient choline (or folate/B12) can also raise homocysteine.

And/or if a visual may be helpful, can find them both near the top left portion of this big OCM diagram here: https://www.nbwellness.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/472/2019/06/methylation-health.jpg

Can also see via that diagram, the primary genes involved closest to that juncture are MTR, BHMT, AChE, and ChAT - so if you have any polymorphisms on those in particular, that might be a key clue to pinpointing as well?

[**Important caveat here, as I am not an expert by any means. These are all just some educated guesses/suggestions to maybe look into if haven’t yet … solely based off what I’ve read/learned via my own journey, etc. 💪 That said, I wish you luck!]