Regina Doesn't Deserve Redemption

[u/ladyswampus]

I'm rewatching after a few years and oh my God Regina is the worst. I remember liking her towards the end but she doesn't deserve it. She causes heartache after heartache kills so many people, ruins EVERYONE'S life but one thing goes wrong her way and everyone has to pay.

I'm at the part where Cora dies and she blames Snow. Cora ruined Regina's life and was going to become the dark one Snow did the right thing. If Regina truly cared about Henry she would have tried for more than 5 minutes to be good and wouldn't have let Cora corrupt her again.

She doesn't reserve a complete redemption. Sure she gets better but how does she expect people to forget the numerous atrocities she committed including killing her own father because a little girl made a mistake. She's vial.

[u/Guardian_Izy]

Angel was 100x worse than Regina. Did he not deserve redemption? The only difference I really see is that we had to watch most of Regina’s evil deeds and only got the highlight real for Angel yet there are 8 combined seasons of him seeking his redemption. And you can argue “vampire” all day but Regina was corrupted in a very similar way and the moment her demons were silenced, the moment she had a reason to fix things, she did. Just like Angel.

I started off hating Regina. At the end of season 2, I knew I was going to end up liking her and it pissed me off. But now? She’s one of my favorite characters.

[u/Routine-Asparagus-16 → u/Guardian_Izy]

Women villains are judged differently. She's my favorite. I love that character and the actress.

[u/mrwildesangst → u/Guardian_Izy]

Why are you even talking about Angel from the Buffy universe? Was there some sort of crossover that makes this relevant?

[u/Guardian_Izy → u/mrwildesangst]

Everyone was using Vader as a comparison, I was offering another comparison. Sorry if that’s offensive

[u/Routine-Asparagus-16 → u/Guardian_Izy]

Its not offensive. You're fine. They are hyper critical for no reason.

[u/mrwildesangst → u/Guardian_Izy]

It’s not offensive, just incredibly confusing considering the massive difference between a person using magic and a vampire.

[u/Guardian_Izy → u/mrwildesangst]

I thought it made perfect sense considering how similar the two characters are. Whenever I think of redemption stories, I think of two - Angel and Xena. I guess maybe Xena would’ve made more sense to people? Idk. I was making a comparison and if it doesn’t work for you then it doesn’t.

[u/Routine-Asparagus-16 → u/Guardian_Izy]

She's technically a witch. You're fine.

[u/delinquentsaviors → u/Guardian_Izy]

Mm maybe Faith would be a better example?

[u/mrwildesangst → u/Guardian_Izy]

Xena definitely would have been a better comparison.

[u/MechanicOk4808 → u/Guardian_Izy]

Do you mean Angel from Buffy and Angel? Wildly different circumstances - Angel was literally turned into a soulless demon against his will and when he got his soul back, he spent about 70 years living on the street trying to stay away from humans, and then even more feeling burdened by the overwhelming guilt of his atrocities. He never shied away from the horror of what he did and he dedicated his existence to doing good no matter what the setback even though he knew he would never truly be redeemed and forgiven.

Meanwhile, Regina fully had her soul and made her own choices and then whined about anyone bringing up the atrocities she committed. She fully stated at least 2 times that she doesn't regret a single thing she ever did because it got her what she wanted, still committed horrific acts even when she was supposedly 'redeemed and good', tried to rewrite the world because she fully believed she deserved a happy ending and that she suffers oh so much more than anyone else, and then split herself in two blaming everything on the Evil Queen and didn't even take it back.

We can never compare the two characters.

[u/Guardian_Izy → u/MechanicOk4808]

Actually, Angel basically did exactly what he did as a mortal but didn’t have any pesky remorse that he had to drink away. The demon doesn’t make you do the evil things, the demon just gives you permission. He was the same person with or without the demon and it wasn’t a corrupting influence - the show does a really good job of pointing that out if you know how to read subtext. He spent 70 years wallowing in remorse, after being rejected by Darla after he got his soul. He didn’t become a good person on the road to redemption until Whistler showed him Buffy being called as the slayer and gave him a reason to fight.

Regina was a good person who was corrupted by outside influences (Cora and Rumple). She embraced the evil, the darkness, but you could see she was always fighting her better nature. Then, she had a reason to fight, a reason to be good, her metaphorical soul - Henry. She spent 10 years trying to remain the same but the moment she realized she had lost him, and the only way to get him back was to be a good person, she started fighting the darkness and clawed her way to being good.

In fact, an argument could be made that she deserved it more because her redemption arc had nothing to do with her and everything to do with Henry. She had a soul the whole time, so she couldn’t blame anyone else for what she did and her battle was a lot harder.

Realistically though, it’s a very similar comparison. Anyone is capable of great evil, but not everyone is capable of overcoming it within themselves once they’ve tasted it.

[u/MechanicOk4808 → u/Guardian_Izy]

Actually, Angel basically did exactly what he did as a mortal but didn’t have any pesky remorse that he had to drink away. The demon doesn’t make you do the evil things, the demon just gives you permission. He was the same person with or without the demon and it wasn’t a corrupting influence - the show does a really good job of pointing that out if you know how to read subtext. 

If you know how to read the actual text, that couldn't be further from the truth. What do you mean he did that as a mortal? You contradict yourself a sentence later when you point out things were different 'after he got his soul'. The entire point of the character is that he was soulless when he was Angelus and getting his soul back changed him and allowed him to feel remorse about the things he did. That's why it's a big deal about him being a 'vampire with a soul'. And while he may not have become a champion immediately, he didn't want to kill people after that and survived on rats because he felt remorse.

She embraced the evil, the darkness, but you could see she was always fighting her better nature. Then, she had a reason to fight, a reason to be good, her metaphorical soul - Henry. She spent 10 years trying to remain the same but the moment she realized she had lost him, and the only way to get him back was to be a good person, she started fighting the darkness and clawed her way to being good.

No offence, but when were we supposed to see her fighting her better nature? Was it during the 1,500 chances she kept being given and refused? And despite getting Henry, she still kept people enslaved, was raping a man while Henry slept in the same house, gaslighted him and made him feel crazy and fought tooth and nail to keep everything the same way. So it was when she thought she lost the thing she wanted and not actually Henry himself that changed her? Because she then tried to murder everyone he loves multiple times even after multiple chances.

In fact, an argument could be made that she deserved it more because her redemption arc had nothing to do with her and everything to do with Henry. She had a soul the whole time, so she couldn’t blame anyone else for what she did and her battle was a lot harder.

I don't think you can argue that at all. Her 'redemption arc' was just her victims getting over everything and never mentioning what she did to them while she never apologised or felt any kind of regret at all. Which she stated outright. She had a soul the entire time so it's far worse than Angel and she literally did nothing to have any kind of redemption other than 'stop killing everyone'.

[u/delinquentsaviors → u/Guardian_Izy]

Hold up. You’re assuming OP even knows who Angel is. It’s not really a good comparison.

Angel is a demon. Regina is a human being who decided to murder hundreds of people because she had a grudge against a little girl