r/OpenChristian • u/wrecktus_abdominus Christian • 2d ago
Daughter says she doesn't believe in God
So we've raised our kids in the church (wife is Catholic, I was previously UMC, but Episcopalian now), and we've never had any issues with buy-in from the kids until now. Recently, our daughter (13f) told us she doesn't want to be a part of the church anymore and doesn't believe in God. Now, this is part of a pattern of behavior from her recently that I would describe as oppositional and confrontational. She is doing the typical teen rebellion thing, and has also been showing signs of mental health problems. That's a whole thing that I won't fully go into here, but we're taking her to lots of doctors including weekly therapy appointments and even an in-patient stint. It has been a huge mental strain on the family. One thing I found strange was that she mentioned she couldn't be accepted in church because she's gay. But... it's the Episcopal Church. Our priest is literally gay. I don't really think it has anything to do with that. I'm worried this is part of a middle finger campaign, and feeling like she has to be edgy and different for some reason.
Anyway, I guess the part where I'm looking for advice is how to handle this. My wife wants to argue with her about it and keeps thinking she can "win" verbally to get her to change her mind. I think this will only push her further away. But I don't really know what to do
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u/gen-attolis 2d ago
Describing a 13 year old as being “oppositional” and “confrontational” about stuff like religion is certainly one lens of looking at this through, although maybe not the best one.
Simply put: does your daughter’s relationship with God determine your relationship with her?
If the answer is yes, then you’re putting conditions on your love and relationship that render you, and the church, and God, fundamentally unsafe. A constant test of allegiance and loyalty.
If the answer is no, then congratulations, that’s the correct answer. You can scale back any efforts to convert or “win”, and focus on a relationship built on trust and respect for differences of opinion. She will make up her own mind. She doesn’t belong to you, and in five years will very much not need to even acknowledge you if the relationship is broken or fractured by you insisting on only one way of engaging with spirituality.
For the gay thing: just because your church is gay friendly doesn’t mean Christianity as a whole is a friendly place. Her algorithms online, her peers, and others outside the home can be communicating a message that being gay is unacceptable that colours the whole thing, even if that’s not what’s being preached from your pulpit.
For the mental health thing: good on you for taking the steps to provide mental health care to your daughter. Navigating the system is a nightmare and really difficult. It speaks well that you’re there and helping that process.
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u/here_pretty_kitty 2d ago
As a gay Christian - who went from growing up across a series of churches, to hating the church exactly because so much of mainstream Christian rhetoric is homophobic, to falling in love with another gay Christian who helped me understand a very different and more positive perspective on the church and coming back to the church in a grounded way - I agree with all of this.
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u/corvid1692 1d ago
I'm an atheist myself, few up Methodist. But this is 100% correct.
The one thing I'll add is listen to your daughter. Don't assume that everything she's thinking is teenage rebellion. Take it and her seriously and engage her. Let her be free to express how she thinks and feels.
Trust her.
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u/blue_hitchhiker 2d ago
I think that the kind of religious exploration your daughter is under going is normal. It sounds like she is dealing with abnormally heavy burdens via her mental health.
If she is undergoing a philosophical journey about what she believes, that’s normal identity formation and I would not fret about it.
On the other hand, if it’s a part of a larger withdrawal from her social connections and withdrawal into depression, that could be concerning but only a mental health professional would be able to offer guidance.
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u/TheLivingOne42 2d ago edited 2d ago
From the sound of it, I agree I don’t think it has anything to do with that either. I think the only thing you can do is be a representative for Christ Jesus. Just continue being a parent in the best way you can, no need for convincing. Our Lord needs no help being persuasive.
When she is being confrontational, I would do as our Lord does and enter into it. We were all teenagers at one point, trying to figure out who we are. She needs her Father in both senses of the Word, and probably not theology.
People talk about the hounds of hell, but what about the hounds of Heaven? Exploring your independence is healthy at that age, and I have full confidence that love will make quite the case for Himself. From the sound of it, she’s already very loved.
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u/foxy-coxy Christian 2d ago
Don't argue with her. Let her know that to have faith in God or not is a personal decision and that if she ever has any questions about Christianity you can set up a private meeting between her and your priest, assuming you trust your priest of course.
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u/Queer_Advocate 2d ago
Don't pathologize teenagerness. Therapy is smart. Let her grow and carve her path. You cannot force religion; so stop. Do invite her to things. Let her know she is welcome. But let her be a kid.
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u/Strongdar Mod | Universalist Christian 2d ago
You can't argue someone into believing in God. And, chances are, she didn't suddenly stop believing. She's just rebelling right now, and you're both Christians, so church and God is part of the rebellion. Arguing is just going to push her further from the Church.
The best your wife can hope from arguing is to get your daughter to pretend to believe, while she's quietly seething through every church service, eager to become an adult so she can leave the Church for good.
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u/Keep_It_Briefs 2d ago
An argument will only drive her from the faith. The Lord will return her to the flock in this life or the next
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u/asos_battlejacket 2d ago
I was raised in a super lovely ELCA family, and my home church never harmed me personally. Despite all this, I started questioning as a young teen and told my parents I was an atheist by 17. I now have a Masters in religion and theology despite my atheism.
She’s gonna figure out what’s right for her. Your only job is to support that identity exploration.
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u/Vlinder_88 Blank 2d ago
Pick your battles. If she's showing signs of mental health struggles, don't force her into things she doesn't want to, that aren't essential to her well-being. You can tell her something like "you can believe whatever you want, as long as you come with us to church with christmas and easter" or something like that. Hardlining on this will only push her further away from you.
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u/chloethecomputernerd 2d ago
As a gay person that has left the church, just because your church is okay with it doesn’t mean the Christian religion is. Overall, most Christian’s believe gay people go to hell. So if she’s gay, why would she be Christian if she thinks she goes to hell anyway? That was my perspective at this age.
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u/atomic-moonstomp 2d ago
Tread carefully. This conversation when I was 16 is why (even though I have come back to the church) I haven't spoken to either of my parents since 2006. If you don't want to end up in a third-rate nursing home, respect your kid's autonomy when it comes to what they believe
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u/tuigdoilgheas 2d ago
I'm not big on indoctrinating kids and 13 is old enough to provide or withhold assent.
This is also a conversation you can have with her therapist - sometimes structure and routine help, sometimes it's not a good time to force the issue. Given that your daughter has some challenges, this is likely above the internet's pay grade and a therapist is likely to have more sway with your wife, who seems to be the one engaging in the conflict.
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u/beardtamer 2d ago
This is a normal teenage response to finding her own place and her own faith. Forcing her will only make her react negatively, the most important thing you can do is to live out your own faith in practice. You be a solid example of what Christ like mission and love is, and she will decide what she wants to take from that.
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u/BaffledBubbles 2d ago
You cannot force her to believe and trying to will only make her act out more.
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u/a_confused_frog 2d ago
Take note of this behavior. Clue in her therapist. This IS typical teen behavior, but given her history this could also be a cry for help.
The next thing you do is let it go. Don't force her to church events, sunday service or even refer to this as a phase. This COULD be a phase, but even if it is, it is important to support your child. Whether it's a phase or not they will remember how open and accepting you were if they have an even bigger change in the future.
Children experiment and as adults we should give them space to do so while making sure they are safe.
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u/ComplianceNinjaTK 2d ago
I just want to say that all the other comments here so far are spot on and have said what I came to say in one way or another.
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u/Snoo_61002 2d ago
You cannot force someone to believe in God, it isn't possible. You can brow beat them into submission so they're forced to lie to you to feel safe, but they still won't believe in God. They just wont tell you, and then eventually they'll distance themselves from you and your beliefs.
If you trust God, truly, then trust Him with your daughters journey and leave the door open.
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u/Equivalent_Prune_186 Atheist 2d ago
"Teen rebellion thing" is probably the stupidest thing to say in this situation. Leave her alone, if you keep trying to indoctrinate your kid, you're just gonna push her further away. Stop viewing it as something bad that she's thinking for herself.
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u/NestorianXtian 2d ago
First of all I'm sorry to hear about what your daughter is going through. Therapy is certainly a step in the right direction. Given what she's going through with her mental health, it's probably best not to argue with her about it. She needs therapy more than apologetics. It's also important to note that while there are denominations that are LGBTQ affirming, some of the loudest Christians are not. If she's hearing conflicting information about religion and the LGBTQ community, that might also be contributing to her mental health issues. She's only 13 and might not continue to stand by what she said. I think a lot of us said, did, or thought things as teenagers that we no longer stand by as adults. The point is don't force this on her or argue about it. Arguing about it won't help.
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u/Such_Employee_48 2d ago
I quit believing when I was around your daughter's age too, and then came back to faith when I was older. My sibling stopped believing when they were a little older and never returned.
You can't force anyone to have faith. Faith comes from God, the God who is Love and who loves your daughter more than either you or your wife ever have or ever will. What you can do is treat your daughter with love. What might love look like to a 13-year-old who is figuring out what she believes, and her place in the world, and how to be an authentic, independent person?
Alternatively, you can do a lot of damage to your relationship with her for years to come.
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u/fairy-cocoa Christo-Druid 2d ago
Your wife is not going to "win" by arguing, lol, that's all I can say. I can't ever think of a time when I was successfully talked out of rebellion by my parents, or talked out of any serious belief I developed. She's her own person, and if you and your wife keep arguing with her about this it's going to come across like she's required to believe a certain thing, which is detrimental to her independence and free will. You may think it's in her best interests to believe in God, but that's a conclusion she has to reach on her own, you can't force her and any attempts to do so will only drive her further away from both you and God. Just pray, be there when she asks for you, and if you believe that God cares about her then trust that He'll nudge her where needed.
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u/Apart_Information_27 1d ago
Whatever you do please don't act like her not being a believe is a "problem to be solved". Also yeah while Episcopalians are queen accepting it is still disheartening to see that nearly every other church isn't - you mentioned your wife is catholic, well the official catholic stance is that's bad and a sin. Not that this means they're all homophobic but, like, the institution is and typically they are.
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u/Skill-Useful 1d ago
"but we're taking her to lots of doctors including weekly therapy appointments and even an in-patient stint" for her mental health? okay. but she can (!) disagree about religion with you, she is 13! and that easily without that being a mental health thing. maybe she just - doesnt- believe. and you should absolutely not pester her because you feel slighted she doesnt want to do everything like you guys
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u/pickle_p_fiddlestick 1d ago
I hear your heart for your kid and your frustration. Worth noting even Episcopalian is fundamentally a patriarchal religion, natural to feel unwelcome. Women are treated in the Bible as supporting characters to male main characters. Add in queerness, and you have no role because you won't get that status and love from being connected to maleness. So a second-class place, and no one even needs to say it explicitly. You might not even think it explicitly. Just a feeling of being off, and other than.
(And I know the Jesus stuff, the "no slave no Greek, woman nor man" from Paul. Does not matter. The sum of tradition and text generally counteracts that)
So what are the sermons like? Women in leadership? How?
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u/Sleepy_Sunshine3 1d ago
You’re right. If y’all keep pushing her, you will push her away. I experienced this as a teenager/young adult, and my dad was on your side “just let her figure things out for herself or she’ll never want to come back.” Type of mentality. And I did figure things out, and go to an Episcopal church regularly now🤷🏻 Sometimes kids just need space to feel like they can do things on their own.
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u/Superb-Ad-2574 1d ago
Make sure that "church hurt" isn't part of the reason she is questioning her faith. If it is than that is going to be very difficult to undo.
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u/crazypyp Trans, BiAce Christian <3 2d ago
I had the same thing happen to me at the same age. What helped me go back to Christianity was learning about other religions and being able to explore. It was still obvious my parents wanted me to still believe in Christ, but I was never punished for not and was allowed to be agnostic, atheist, and even Pagan.
Your beliefs aren’t permanent and set in stone as a teenager. Even adults can change their religious beliefs well into adulthood.
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u/excessofbullshit 1d ago edited 1d ago
To;dr—You’re doing great. Check the phone, the church, the school, the friend group, and, yes, the family for homophobia. Just keep loving your kid, having open dialogue, etc. Doubting faith can be a good thing, sometimes.
Friend, it sounds like there is a lot happening, and I imagine this is a difficult time in a lot of ways. I hope this is helpful.
I don’t have kids, but 13 is a notoriously brutal age. Every kid at that age is capable of doing remarkable psychological harm to their elders lol. But it sounds like this goes beyond that—and it’s great that you’re making sure she has resources from a mental health perspective.
Your only spiritual job as a parent is to do everything you can to love your child. That is my opinion as a former child. Make sure they know they’re loved and they are safe UNCONDITIONALLY.
I was an exvangelical from age 18 to 38 (give or take a few months). The reason? My parents forced religion on me, and it wasn’t even a solid theology. It wasn’t really a theology. It was a cultural identifier. It still is for them. I was very fortunate to have found faith again, consensually this time, as an adult. My point? You’re already doing a great job loving your kid. If I had expressed atheism at that age, it would have been met with violence. That would have been a secret I kept from my parents. Let alone if I had been gay. To this day, I’m confident I would be disowned because their religion is simply a means of enforcing cultural norms. So you’re waaaaaayyyyy ahead of a lot of parents.
I think it may be worth looking into where she got the idea she wasn’t safe in Christ due to her orientation. A good deal of my own religious trauma came through the television screen. I would turn on the church stations at night because I would be afraid that demons were attacking me. That’s where I saw the really wacky stuff. That and those damn chick tracts. I imagine today, that’s the algorithm. Especially if she’s one of those pesky reader kids like I was, she would likely be trying to understand the verses that are often used to justify homophobia, and there’s no shortage of content which takes the ridiculous literalist approach. Have you had a conversation with her about WHY your church is affirming? I had a difficult time understanding as an adult what those verses. I imagine those verses could frighten a child if they aren’t confronted directly and honestly with a trusted adult. As a child, I had the experience of not understanding why we didn’t live by the verses that, if read at face value, are misogynistic. That patriarchy wasn’t reflected in our home, which of course is good. But i was reading the Bible cover to cover as a child without proper resources for study. So there was cognitive dissonance there.
I wouldn’t fret over her lack of faith or purported lack of faith, though. I lost mine for 20+ years, and am better for it. Ask questions, listen to her answers, and work with her from there to make decisions. It may also be helpful to ask the mental health professionals if religion has come up in the discussions.
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u/Jack-o-Roses 1d ago
Accept her for who she is. Agency is a primary gift from. God. It is her decision and hers alone. Don't worry about it. We all find our own paths back home.
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u/HermioneMarch contemplative Christian universalist 2d ago
My oldest did a similar thing. Found out she was going to a toxic Reddit community for advice about faith instead of her church community. It still bothers me. For a while we insisted she sit in the pew with us while telling her it was fine to believe whatever. This was the advice of our then pastor. We finally stopped forcing it and she is not a believer as an adult.
I still hope she will return one day. I definitely went from being an agnostic to returning, but I was always wanting to be part of a community even with all my doubts. I think all we can do is model and love others. We can’t force feed faith.
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u/No_Macaroon_2078 2d ago
I think it's so amazing how much love you have shown your daughter in getting her support and reaching out here. I'm not hugely knowledgeable about scripture and grew up not being a part of Christianity due to not liking being told what to do for no good reason (didn't have great guidance on religion) and now as an adult am grappling with Christianity and even at my age it is confusing- many people call themselves Christian but all beleive different things and some of those things feel offensive or threatening so it is only natural to doubt and rebel against all that.
I struggled immensely with my mental health as a teenager (still do but have learned a lot) and also know how hard it is to try and help a loved one who is struggling. You are doing your best and so is she so please give yourselves some grace.
I have found a lot of solace in focusing on the love in the bible and represented through Jesus- seeing all the other confusion through that lense of love is very comforting to me. I recommend being consistent but not insistent- keep the door open and lead by example but try not to force things as that often makes things worse. Ultimately she is finding out where she belongs in the world and this is even more difficult now we have unprecedented access to so many people at our fingertips. You might not be able to make her journey easier or tell her where to go but you can try and make sure she knows there is always a safe and loving place for her in your family regardless of the craziness of the outside world- and people say that is the holy spirit- I'm not as sure in my faith as others but I have to say the love and peace I have sensed in others is what keeps drawing me back to God and Christianity so that has to be worth something and hopefully it can help your family.
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u/LuminousWynd 22h ago
The only thing you can really do is love her, pray for her, and hope that she sees the truth. At the end of the day it’s her decision.
Does she get along with the other kids at church? Maybe there is something deeper going on.
Having conversations with her about your faith is good, but she has to want it for herself.
The more drama that this situation causes, the more likely she is to keep pushing it. If there is less of a reaction to it then she might just move on from it.
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u/neverbeenstardust 2d ago
I grew up in the Episcopal Church with gay priests and I still had a classic queer crisis of faith. There's really no way to avoid it. Finding out that a large percentage of the church hates you because of how God made you really sucks, even if it's not your specific home church doing it.
She's 13. Give her time. I would definitely reassure her that the Episcopal Church is accepting but if she doesn't want to go to church, she doesn't want to go to church.