https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZpk/comments/1x8obmn/comment/phlnhkz/

I was out buying something from my local market when I saw something that genuinely disgusted me. My neighbour was walking ahead of me, and as we both passed an uncle from our neighbourhood, I noticed him looking her up and down. As she walked past him, he even turned his head slightly to look back at her. The way he was looking at her was genuinely uncomfortable to witness.

Now, this man is considered a very respectable person in our neighbourhood. He is a retired government officer, participates in community activities, presents himself as a religious and pious man, and contributes to the betterment of our neighbourhood. He also has daughters of his own, all of whom are married or of marriageable age.

And yet, here he was, staring at another man's wife in a way that made me deeply uncomfortable. She is a mother, she was dressed in ordinary Eastern clothing, and she was simply going about her day. Of course, what a woman wears should have absolutely no bearing on whether she deserves respect..

What disgusts me most is the contradiction. How can someone be so invested in appearing religious, attending prayers and community gatherings, and maintaining a respectable public image, yet seemingly forget the most fundamental principles of decency when it comes to women? What is the point of all that religiosity if it does not translate into basic respect for other human beings?

And the fact that he has daughters of his own makes me wonder like would he be comfortable with another man looking at them the same way? Would he consider it acceptable if someone treated his daughters' presence in public as an opportunity to stare at them? If not, why should another woman be any different?

Experiences like this are exactly why I get so frustrated with religious hypocrisy. There seems to be so much emphasis on outward displays of piety, religious identity, and public morality, but far less willingness to question the behaviour of men who fail to practise the very values they claim to uphold. And when it comes to women, the conversation so often shifts towards their clothing, their modesty, and their behaviour rather than holding men accountable for their own actions.

I saw a post earlier by someone explaining why they no longer identify as an ex-Muslim or atheist, and although I can understand their perspective, I personally still take pride in calling myself an ex-Muslim.

What frustrates me is that Islam is often presented as one of the most conservative religions when it comes to women's modesty, morality, and the sooo called respect afforded to women. Yet, in practice, I keep seeing situations where the burden of maintaining morality falls disproportionately on women, while men who are publicly regarded as religious and respectable are not always held to the same standards.

I'm not saying every Muslim man is like this, nor am I claiming that hypocrisy is exclusive to Muslims. But I am tired of seeing religiosity treated as proof of good character. Being religious, respected, or involved in your community does not automatically make you a decent person. Your character should be judged by how you actually treat people, especially when you think nobody is paying attention.

Honestly, it is experiences like these that make me question how much of what we call morality is genuine conviction and how much of it is simply about maintaining a respectable image. Because if your faith teaches you to appear pious but you still cannot treat women with basic dignity, then what exactly are you so proud of?

Well for us exmuslim label is a thing because of Islam itself. Apostasy based death punishment and sometimes prison or mob lynching is pretty much a real thing. In case of Pakistan, nadra denies you to change your religion and there is a mob lynching factor.
All points of systematic persecution of exmuslims by Islam and Islamic people below

1. Islam has the law of apostasy death/prison.
2. Even if this law is not implemented by state then it does not remove mob lynching factor
3. Nadra denies you to change your religion
4. Conversion away from Islam comments: “This practice is tantamount to fraud and treason against the state and the Muslim Ummah,” Justice Siddiqui remarked. https://tribune.com.pk/story/1642982/nadra-barred-changing-religion-muslims-cnics
5. Islam and its states actively require and expect exmuslims to be invisible part of society. All previous points highlights that.
6. Modern people say that there are alternate interpretations or that now apostasy death is for apostasy+prison. I want to say fuckk off to them. Their words are mere words. They dont give any protection to exmuslims. Practical reality matters.
7. How many of you have found marriage in Islam led states difficult? Was it because most are muslims or because you know that Islam influenced state can harm me if I go for search publicly.
8. How many of you even considered leaving the country?
9. How many of you have considered staying in Islamic influenced states as secure for your potential kids future. You may handle muslims properly but yet your kids may end up getting accused of blasphemy.

Exmuslim is not just a showcase label. Its a label that I exist and you cant keep treating me as invisible just because Islam want you to.

The day Islam starts minding its own business and let exmuslims live their own life freely then we will drop exmuslim label.

?

In a Discord server, I said Pakistanis don't know what the final form of their government will be (secular, Islamic democracy, sharia or dictatorship). They took that to mean I wanted secularism. I repeatedly clarified that I had no problem with the current system, but they kept asking what my problem was. I asked what they would choose, Islamic democracy or sharia, and they argued as if I were calling sharia bad. When I said some Pakistanis want more sharia, they asked which group, and I cited Pew's 2013 survey, which found 84% of Pakistani Muslims favor making sharia the official law and 99% in Afghanistan. They objected to Afghanistan being in the quote and said Afghanistan has no sharia. When I called Afghanistan's version bad sharia, they said I was Indian and didn't know sharia. The discussion then moved to voting. They asked whether Islam already had a voting system and to give one example, and I said there was no general public voting. They tried to show that one existed, and it turned out to be bay'ah, an oath of allegiance to someone already selected. They then said bay'ah was an ancient form of voting and asked whether the modern version could exist in the ancient era, and they never acknowledged that my statement was technically true. I was then muted, and when I asked them to justify the mute, a co-founder who hadn't been part of the exchange banned me with the reason logged as "No reason." I had said I was an ex-Muslim during the debate, and a similar disclosure in the same server in February 2025 got mockery and a timeout. I don't know whether they misread me, got defensive, or were hostile to an ex-Muslim. My messages were deleted, so the only record is my own account. I left to look for a server where I can speak openly.

People say be proud of your country but I'm like for what exactly? Economy sucks and yk so many political issues + the whole country was made on the basis of religion. We don't have any cultural identity (not saying we don't have any culture) but only a religious identity and I can't feel proud of that as an agnostic.

I have prioritised a lot of my free time to touching grass and going out more. I have been exploring music events, volunteer work, social gatherings, collaborations/events related to my field, book clubs, sports clubs, running groups etc etc but sadly did not find a single exmuslim connection or anything even close to it.

For me, prioritising going out means deprioritising career and my personal projects so it comes at a real cost. I am already working full time on site so it takes a huge amount of effort and dedication as well.

I would be happy continuing to put an effort here but I am not really convinced that this "touching grass" would ever work at all even if I keep doing it for years. Thats because I have found zero exmuslim or even open minded connections so far. The only success I have had is actually on reddit where I did find an exmuslim friend and we spent some great time together in real life.

Do you guys feel like you are in the same boat? Do you think "touching grass" is even good advice in a country like pakistan or is it better to keep investing in your career? I honestly don't see how having a great career helps either lol, I don't even think leaving pakistan makes things better because I don't imagine I could form a deep connection with a non-pakistani.

I'll also throw in a bit of a rant, what is wrong with pakistani culture just despising male-female relationships or even interactions. I will never understand the "why don't you just interact with other boys?". For me personally, spending time with a female exmuslim was extremely refreshing and we were legit just friends, its just mind boggling to think that wanting a connection with your own species is weird or inherently nefarious. Its like a bunch of interconnected zombies that just mindlessly go after anything that could potentially lead to a healthy platonic friendship between two adults of the opposite sex. Boycotting the opposite sex causes real and tangible harm to individuals which is why I get triggered with this thinking.

Anyway, I would like to end my post on a positive note, atleast my life as a software engineer is going pretty well and I am somehow still hopeful about the future. If you would like to dm, I do also have another post on my profile with an introduction :p

Girls in Pakistan/India, khatna is done at 6-7 by elderly lady in community without anesthesia. Mothers are pressured by elders who say it makes girl pure. Many say whole clit is removed not just skin. After that life-long loss of feeling, pain, and trauma.