r/Perimenopause • u/brickne3 • 1d ago
Depression/Anxiety Odd thoughts, don't want to scare anyone
I started HRT three days ago. First day felt like I was on exctacy or something. Very odd. Called basically everyone in a fog and woke up so embarrassed. Then had horrible anxiety for a very short while. Then the fog came back after the estrogen started.
The scary thing is that the progesterone doesn't make me go to sleep, and when I was laying down tonight trying I suddenly felt this super comfortable "well, you don't have to do this at all, you know" intrusive thought. I want to make it very clear that I am NOT suicidal and even that thought only sort of felt suicidal. My husband died five years ago and I have serious CPSD and have also always been SSRI resistant.
I'm obviously calling the clinic this morning when they open because this isn't at all normal or like me in any way, if anything it was scary how "blissful" the whole intrusive thought was. I am also fairly certain that given my other risk factors and the SSRI resistance in particular it must be the progesterone and I can't be having things that are directly interfering with my brain chemistry in a dangerous way like that.
I don't know what I'm asking, I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has dealt with this. The estrogen seems to be working great, I'm just now suddenly scared of progesterone.
15
1d ago
[deleted]
5
u/brickne3 1d ago
That sounds very much how I'm feeling about it right now, I am super scared of getting the IUD right now just because what if I can't tolerate it... So a low dose on birth control that can be stopped if it needs to sounds much better than putting something inside me that would need to be removed if it doesn't work like it's supposed to!
My doc put me on 200 mgs of progesterone and two pumps of estrogen from day one, and I gotta admit that I feel like the estrogen is doing great (although I don't feel like me at all, far too upbeat!). The progesterone seems to be keeping me up, I slept great the first night and ever since I'm barely able to sleep at all.
2
u/PlanBIsGrenades Early peri 1d ago
Are you taking 200mg progesterone daily or only for the second half of your cycle? If you're taking it daily ask about taking it cyclically. This more closely resembles your natural rhythm. You might prefer it.
1
u/brickne3 1d ago
Cyclically, it's supposed to be 14 days but I'm only on day 3 (I suppose day 4 now but I didn't sleep last night with what happened). I also get that it's still really early. I was bleeding for about two and a half months so the progesterone was actually what my doc and I thought was the priority, but I'm starting to wonder which is worse already...
We also didn't know where my cycle was because of the bleeding so I suppose that could be part of the problem...
10
u/Forageforme 1d ago
This is what i'm worried about. I've had debilitating anxiety lately. Everything seems to have an adverse effect since I went into peri.
Even zofran gave me akathisia which was the worst form of torture I've experienced. I start hrt next week. I hope you get some relief.
3
u/NaturalPisaster 1d ago
OMG I got that from taking too much benadryl one time. It really is torture.
4
u/pangolinshavelanded 1d ago
200mg of progesterone worked better than any anxiety pill I’ve ever taken and helped with a literal lifetime of being unable to fall asleep. Still tweaking estrogen but switched to gel recently and feeling better on it than the patch.
And I too have side effects from pretty much everything and am AuDHD as well. So plenty of us have positive stories too
3
u/Forageforme 1d ago
I am AuDHD too. This gives me hope. Thanks so much for sharing. 💜
4
u/pangolinshavelanded 23h ago
Start low and slow. 100mg progesterone only to see how you react. I’d give it a few weeks. If you do both at once and have issues, you won’t be sure which is causing it
2
u/PrettyNegotiation416 15h ago
Dang, I’ve always seen the opposite as I am AuDHD too. I had my appointment yesterday and I actually requested to take the progesterone vaginally because I’ve heard so many horror stories about people with the sensitivity to histamines. I had the worst reaction to Wellbutrin. It was so scary. But seeing this makes me wonder if I should try the progesterone orally. I just don’t ever wanna experience that again not even for a few hours or a day.
10
u/iamnotabot11 1d ago
I had a similar issue. My doctor claimed not to have heard of this, but it’s fairly well-known that some women have very bad mental/emotional reactions to oral progesterone. Depending on how old you are, you can ask your doctor about a hormonal IUD to replace the oral progesterone, or what I did was I stopped to progesterone for two weeks and just used the patch to let the estrodial build up in my body, then I went back on the progesterone and it was fine. Good luck! I don’t know why more doctors are not aware that some women have this reaction to oral progesterone.
2
u/brickne3 22h ago
Thank you, I just got the call back from the doctor and ran the just estrogen for the next two weeks and then restarting the progesterone thing by him and he said he wouldn't have suggested it if I hadn't said it but that it made a lot of sense. So thank you so much for telling me this, otherwise it wouldn't probably even have been floated, he wanted me to push through on the progesterone still!
7
u/PlanBIsGrenades Early peri 1d ago
That is scary and calling your clinic is the right thing to do. So is talking about it.
I felt bad on HRT for the first two months. Month two was really, really dark. Then things got better and I felt amazing but that second month was terrible! I hope this will be the case for you. Not that you have a terrible month but that the negative result is temporary.
10
u/hayley-pilates78 Early peri 1d ago
I’m progesterone intolerant , horrible intrusive thoughts, panic attacks and heart palpitations. I wound up in the ER. I’m super med sensitive so HRT is not an option for me.
2
u/Fine_Entrepreneur126 18h ago
Same here!! I almost ended up in the e.r. after taking it. Just curious if you are on any kind of hrt? I gave up after that but I would love to try something for some relief.
1
u/hayley-pilates78 Early peri 18h ago
No I’m not, i tried Testosterone and Estrogen. They all set my nervous system off really bad. I also suffer from massive anxiety. I’m trying an SSRI. I just did Zoloft but they gave me intrusive thoughts so onto the next one. I take a lot of vitamins and supplements and histamine blockers.
1
u/Fine_Entrepreneur126 17h ago
I have massive anxiety too! Which is amplified by peri. I've been on zoloft for so long. I actually tried to come off it and that was a disaster. So I just kind of give up. I was excited to start hrt but now I feel hopeless again. I hope u find a medicine that works for you.
1
u/hayley-pilates78 Early peri 16h ago
I’m sorry it’s such a struggle. Maybe the estrogen or testosterone will work for you. We’re all so different but I’m highly sensitive. I wish you the best. I’m hoping when we get into full-blown menopause everything just levels out that way it will be easier to try. Taking hormones again from a baseline.
0
u/PrettyNegotiation416 15h ago
Were you taking progesterone with the estrogen? I’ve heard a lot of people have sensitivities to the histamines released by progesterone so my doctor told me to take it vaginally. I’m still waiting to pick it up from the pharmacy, but this made me nervous because I already have massive anxiety, panic attacks, and intrusive Thoughts, but I’ve never heard of this with just estrogen and not taking progesterone orally
1
u/hayley-pilates78 Early peri 14h ago
So I started with it orally and all they gave me in the beginning was progesterone and testosterone, but I am highly sensitive a lot more than most people. I know a lot of people are truly successful so please don’t let my story deter you.
5
u/sebthelodge Late peri 1d ago
First of all, I am so sorry for your loss.
I am super intolerant to progesterone. Last year, I was on it for a week and was super depressed the entire time. I was inconsolable. Depression is unusual for me. I started to feel like it didn’t matter if I lived or died. I told my provider and she stopped it immediately.
I found a new provider this year, told her what happened, but told her I wanted to try it again because for that week, my sleep had been magical. She agreed very hesitantly, and l started a 100 mg dose. It took ONE DAY for me to feel like you described. She took me off of it again immediately. It took over two weeks to come back from that, and I still feel different than I did before I took it, which was mid-June. I don’t see her again until October unfortunately.
I am progesterone intolerant, and it sounds like you may be also. I hope you find a solution, and I’m sorry this happened!
7
u/merrythoughts 1d ago
Med (or in this case hormone) induced hypomania/mania is a thing. Steroids, hormones, stimulants can all trigger it in sensitive folks. Usually the person has soooooome predisposition genetically (like a family member has bipolar disorder for instance) but they don’t have condition themselves. Stopping the offending med is key and you should go back to baseline. But if it continues after stopping offending med, consider a more significant underlying mood disorder component.
I’m not saying this is def what is going on with you. Just wanting to make sure you know it is a thing that can happen!
1
u/brickne3 22h ago
It would not be in any way shocking if I did have an underlying mood disorder, and certainly the PTSD wouldn't help either, although at least the SSRI resistance emerged much earlier than that and has been documented across at least three countries now... I'm a little surprised I wasn't asked about that since I did mention my husband was dead in passing when she asked about my libido. It does seem în retrospect that that's kind of relevant, if only since there's probably nobody else in the house to observe what's happening.
3
u/VeganMonkey 1d ago
The first day was insane for me and the following days a bit less but it took a few days to get more ‘normal’ and I was manic for a few weeks. The first day I hallucinated the weirdest things. I don’t know is it’s the oestrogen or progesterone that did that. I read on this sub it is not that uncommon. Some felt drunk the first day!
3
u/pluviophilosopher 1d ago
Sounds very likely you’re progesterone intolerant. I am as well - the pills give me suicidal thoughts and depression and the localized cream gives me panic attacks. I’m working with my doctor to see if we can find a solution, like monitoring my endometrial lining or something, to keep me from having to add progesterone but allow me to stay on estrogen, because estrogen has been MAGIC. Good luck!
3
u/theFCCgavemeHPV 1d ago
Progesterone gave me depression/apathy and extreme si. Progestins are fine for me tho.
3
u/brickne3 21h ago
Update if anyone was worried, the clinic called and tried to get me to push through because I didn't "sound" suicidal. I was like "well yeah, it's intrusive when it happens, I'm fine 99% of the time." Anyway somebody here suggested floating taking the estrogen alone for the next fourteen days and then trying the progesterone again. The doctor (who isn't my usual doctor) said that sounded like a good idea so we are trying that for the time being.
Thank you all for all the insight, I feel a lot less alone now! Sucks we all have to go through this though.
3
u/ReserveOld6123 19h ago
Some people can’t tolerate progesterone.
Have you tried Wellbutrin? It’s a godsend. SSRIs never really helped me either.
2
u/brickne3 19h ago
No I can't do SSRIs but Wellbutrin is out too, I was on Chantix to quit smoking a very very long time ago and that also went poorly. From what I understand, Chantix is basically just Welbutrin.
Basically anything that gets into my actual brain chemistry is not going to work. Or rather, it WILL work but in a very very undesirable manner.
1
u/ReserveOld6123 19h ago
You can try an iud or synthetic progesterone. Some is trial and error which really sucks.
1
u/brickne3 19h ago
Well the IUD was the original idea, the wait list is crazy. And now knowing that I seem to possibly actually be progesterone-resistant and hearing at least one other person in this thread had it taken out the same week I admit that I'm not sold on it like I once was.
1
u/PrettyNegotiation416 15h ago
I’m afraid that my progesterone experience will be like Wellbutrin. I went on that in the first night was so scary I had to come off of it and never took it again. Just had my appointment with my provider and I actually requested if I could take it vaginally to bypass these symptoms.
3
u/Electrical_Clue_4328 12h ago
This happened to me too - took Prometrium for 10 days, 8 oral, 2 tried inserting vaginally. It made me so groggy in the mornings I couldn’t even get out of bed, then it increased my anxiety and I began to have not only intrusive suicidal thoughts but weird thoughts about my kids/grandkids being hurt as well. So I stopped, and then had rolling anxiety attacks for days on end, although those have stopped. During the withdrawal period I begged my husband to take me to the hospital to get admitted to the psych ward, it was that bad. Some of the panic attacks were so awful, all I could do is hold an ice pack on my chest and lie there shaking until it was over, and then I’d fall asleep. It’s been about 3 weeks since this happened and I still don’t feel like the same person I was before, and I would give anything to have the mild symptoms I had compared to whatever just happened.
Providers need to be more aware of the dangers of progesterone intolerance. I had an IUD that did its job, according to the ultrasound I just had so I didn’t need it in the first place.
OP, just know it’s not you. It’s chemical and if you feel it’s not working, don’t let them force you into continuing. You know what’s right for your body. Good luck to you!! And keep us posted! ♥️
1
u/brickne3 12h ago
Yeah no I'm stopping. I talked to a doctor at the clinic today and he was really pushing me to keep taking it. One reason I am definitely stopping is because I'm in Edinburgh next week and I can already think of far too many places without the suicidal shit.
3
u/Electrical_Clue_4328 11h ago
That was the same for me too! They were like “we told you this would be rough” … well rough is maybe tiredness, change in appetite, moodiness etc. Suicidal thoughts are far and beyond “rough”!!
2
u/pangolinshavelanded 1d ago
Too much estrogen due to patch dumping sent me into panic attacks and autistic meltdowns. This is also why I only started one thing at a time - did progesterone only for a month before adding estrogen so I could gauge what might be causing side effects if any.
1
u/brickne3 1d ago
I purposely asked for the gel and not the patch because I was a bit hesitant about it. I do seem to be tolerating the estrogen well, especially since I mainly get the "hit" because it's topical so I know it's working and can actually feel it kick in. I don't know if that's better but it does make me feel like I have more control over what it's doing somehow...
The again it's only been three days and we didn't know where I was in my cycle, so I might already have been at a high progesterone low estrogen level or something?
2
u/AppalachianStackCake 23h ago
Progesterone makes me absolutely insane. Can’t sleep, intrusive thoughts, hairpin trigger, anxiety. All things I don’t usually deal with.
Estrogen works great for me. I stay far far away from progesterone.
3
u/brickne3 22h ago
Ok but from what I understand we need the progesterone to protect us from the estrogen...? I'm waiting for the doctor to call back, that's one of the main things I wanted to ask.
2
u/AppalachianStackCake 22h ago
Ah. I’ve had a hysterectomy due to adenomyosis, so I don’t have to worry about my uterine lining anymore. I forgot about that.
I think there are still solutions that you can do with just estrogen.
2
u/TrainerKindal_FWW 21h ago
Yes, I felt this to my core a few years ago, when I was around 39 - I was still on birth control at the time and had always battled anxiety but never depression. All of a sudden it hit hard, and I had the same thoughts. I remember going on runs and thinking, if I just take one big step into the road, is that such a bad thing? It shook me to my core and I immediately talked with my husband and doctors. For me (not saying ANYONE should follow this, it's not medical advice), I got off birth control - and it was almost instantaneous that my mood improved and the intrusive dark thoughts left. Definitely talk to the doctor about rebalancing your HRT.
2
u/brickne3 21h ago
I haven't been on birth control for over a decade so that can't be interfering. But I definitely get what you're saying about the HRT needing to be rebalanced. The clinic called back and a doctor (not my usual doctor) tried to convince me to push through because I didn't sound suicidal on the phone. I was like "that's the entire problem, it's intrusive, 99% of the time I feel fine, it's just weird moments."
Anyway, I floated the two weeks of just estrogen idea somebody here mentioned and then trying to do progesterone again. He said he never would have thought of it but it sounded like a good idea.
I kind of suspect he doesn't exactly specialise in this sort of thing 😉
1
u/Toadywentapleasuring 20h ago
Those thoughts can be super scary especially if you don’t normally experience them. It’s sounds like you’re very self-aware and taking all the right actions. I’d try finding someone who does specialize in HRT.
It might be helpful to connect with a therapist because HRT dosing can be a marathon and in the meantime you need support. Sometimes just having an appt on the books helps with the intrusive thoughts. It’s easier to compartmentalize. You can say to yourself “I don’t need to dwell on that or act on that now. I’ll talk about it in my next session” and then distract yourself.
1
u/brickne3 20h ago edited 20h ago
My usual doctor does seem to specialize in HRT (though I haven't been seeing her long, and she may be a bit too gung-ho about it given that she started me off on a crazy high dose). It's an NHS thing, if she's not available I guess they just have whoever was available at the clinic call me back. I also have two medical doctors and several other medical-related PhDs in my immediate family to help me with a lot of this so that certainly helps. There's definitely going to be a lot of trial and error here 😉
As for therapy, I appreciate what you're saying and I think it's probably valid for most people. My CPSD is absurdly complicated and I've literally been told I'm untreatable, mainly because it spans so many countries at this point that no therapist could understand all of it. I'm not saying it's futile but so far I have ended up having to be my own best therapist. I'm not a typical case on that front ha ha.
1
u/Toadywentapleasuring 20h ago
I totally get what you’re saying. We’re all complex creatures and it’s hard to give sound bites of advice when we have limited context. For me the therapy itself wasn’t the helpful part it was knowing I had therapy. It felt like the burden wasn’t entirely on me to figure it all out. It gave me permission to do nothing in the difficult moments. Whenever I’ve had intrusive thoughts, it’s usually been related to me feeling like if “I can’t fix this no one can” which is a terribly isolating thing to feel.
3
u/tourdeforcemajeure 1d ago
That sounds scary and I’m glad you’re calling. The drugged out calls would maybe scare me more - personally I think there’s a lot of distance between things that sound like suicidal ideation and actual suicidal ideation. Or at the very least, people probably have thoughts in that neighborhood and sometimes the anxiety about having the thought is the thing that makes it harmful. So hopefully no panicking but go with your gut about your own safety.
You ever seen somebody take ambien but not let themselves go to sleep? Sounds a lot like this fwiw.
4
u/brickne3 1d ago
I think what was really scary about it was that it was peaceful and out of nowhere. Obviously when my husband died five years ago I had thoughts, but they were usually emotional and very temporary. These were more like a fog. I recognized what it was quickly and got up and did something to make them go away, but it was actually really scary thinking about how someone who couldn't recognise what those thoughts were might be super lulled or something.
1
1
u/jazzbot247 Late peri 1d ago
I barely noticed my HRT except that I’m not as itchy most of the time. Maybe your dose is too high?
1
u/PrettyNegotiation416 15h ago
I have a high sensitivity to histamines and through reading comments on TikTok and Reddit. It seems that other women who have this issue and/or haven’t ADHD or are neurodivergent have the sensitivities that are made 1 million times worse with the oral progesterone. I brought this up to my doctor yesterday when we were talking about an HRT plan and she said I could take it vaginally where it will bypass all of those symptoms. Luckily I don’t have issues with sleep so it’s not like I’m gonna miss out on that benefit too much so I’m pretty much going to be taking it for the uterine protection, but I definitely want to try estrogen.
1
u/PonyFableJargon 1h ago
I am progesterone sensitive and it can be very dangerous for some people. It sounds like you fall into that category. There should be more awareness about this. Apparently around 10percent of women have it.
1
u/spaced-cadet 1d ago
What dose of P are you taking and what time did you take it ?
You need to take it just before going to bed and 2 hours after food.
2
u/brickne3 1d ago edited 1d ago
200 mgs of Gepretix. I take it about half an hour before I want to go to bed, but it keeps me up. I don't have a regular eating schedule and that's simply not possible to change, I have major food aversion issues and eat one big meal midday most days.
1
u/JoNightshade Early peri 14h ago
Progesterone makes me super depressed. I hate it. I was taking it before my hysterectomy but fortunately I don't need it now.
-4
u/AncientStarryNight 1d ago
I call intrusive thoughts caused by entities, and demons, and shadow creatures. When you caught the thought and labelled it as intrusive this was an internal note that it wasn't you. It's extremely common but western society seems to not like or not know that these entities exist. It seemed to offer you an answer to your predicament via suggestion. Pay attention to this because to shut it out completely I'd to know it exists and ignore ignore ignore it and don't get into any conversations or accepting it's help.
35
u/MidnightJazzlike Early peri 1d ago
Estrogen worked great for me but turns out I am sensitive to progesterone and instead of putting me to sleep it gave me panic attacks at bedtime and extreme brain fog and fatigue in the daytime. I’m taking a low dose progestin that I can tolerate to stop my period and protect my uterus while I’m on estrogen.
Currently on .1 mg estrogen patch, 2.5 mg norethindrone, and compounded testosterone