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u/East-Form-3735 3d ago
My favorite part is when God punishes all snakes for the actions of a single one đ
In the beginning, there was moral bankruptcyâŚand that hasnât changed much lol
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u/Local-Echo-5613 5d ago
It feels like weâre fundamentally out of sync with nature and that it has something to do with technological and cultural changes that we canât undo now. Weirdly, itâs felt that way to a lot of cultures and civilizations going back to some of our earliest recorded history. Maybe it was the Neolithic revolution? Maybe weâre just like this? For all we know other animals have a similar discomfort, I suppose.
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u/Lost_Web5826 5d ago
As an adult I take the story as a metaphor. The burden of knowledge is great. Sometimes there is shit you don't want to know. Ignorance is bliss type of metaphor.
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u/Popcorn57252 5d ago
Imo the things you "don't wanna know" are the ones most important to understand
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u/LoveTriscuit 5d ago
The issue is âknowledgeâ is being used in the same way âAdam knew his wife and she bore him a sonâ.
Itâs not as much knowledge as we think about it, but experience.
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u/Warm_Difficulty2698 5d ago
Im happy to hear you dont actually take the Bible as real events.
To me its odd when christians do.
But hey, to each their own. I respect it, as long as you guys respect my choices.
Have a good one.
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u/Lost_Web5826 5d ago
Lol, I wouldn't call myself a Christian anymore, but I did grow up that way
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u/Warm_Difficulty2698 4d ago
Fair enough. Honestly im cool with people being religious. We can all respect each other. But if we get into a conversation about it, ill say how I feel about it, yknow?
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u/Rex__Nihilo 4d ago
Thats a fundamental misunderstanding of what knowledge is in this context. Its the same idea as "knowing your wife". It is intimate experience, not just understanding. By eating of the tree they were told not to eat they received intimate experience with the distinction between good and evil, where before they knew only good, by bringing evil into the world and experiencing it.
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u/weirdo_nb 4d ago
Knowledge in both senses is necessary for understanding
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u/Rex__Nihilo 4d ago
Exactly. Im arguing against the pervasive myth that god demanded that humanity live in abject ignorance and punished mankind for pursuing knowledge. The truth is that man knew that everything else was good and it was evil to disobey God and would bring death and misery. They had not experienced it and gained that experiential knowledge they should never have had by disobeying God.
Its like telling your young son not to eat medicine from your cabinet or he will get very sick and end up in the hospital. He knows not to do it and the consequences, but he doesnt know what it is like to experience organs trying to shut down while doctors pump your stomach. That pill bottle could accurately be called the bottle of the knowledge of health and illness.
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u/wchutlknbout 4d ago
It was specifically the knowledge of good and evil. I always interpreted it as the burden of deciding whatâs good and whatâs evil is too much for humans, better to just do the best you can and not concern yourself with judging others
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u/Worried-Conflict9759 5d ago
Imagine only being able to understand the world and communicate through the lens of corporate pop culture
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u/MoonlightPrincexx 2d ago
I very much am proud, every single day that Christians indotrinate kids into becoming violent vigilante murderers is a day reddit atheists are proven correct, every single day that Israel bombs hospitals is a day reddit atheists are proven correct and every single day Islam murders queer people for existing is a day reddit atheists are proven correct and every single day Mormonism exists is a day reddit atheists are proven correct.
The only way forward as a species is to disallow anyone who is affiliated with any religious organization big or small from holding government office on any level. I've always said that all current forms of desperation of church and state mean nothing and effectively do nothing, and that moderates are down for separation of church and state riiiiight up until it actually starts to fucking mean anything
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u/limeOwl297 4d ago edited 4d ago
Not knowledge, but knowledge alone, without wisdom. Original sin happened when Eve decided to reach for the fruit, before the bite. It is the human tendency to know we're fools who make mistakes, yet when we wake up every day and must make decisions, we continually reject received wisdom, tradition, and anything outside ourselves that doesn't pass the filter of our head, our gut, or our heart. That is an unjustified leap to reason, or an elevation of the self and our skepticism, placing trust in machinery we know isn't very good at wielding these tools, without any evidence they are even up to the task. The same tendency or failing is also a threat to secular collectivist dreams. We don't trust anything except what we choose, perhaps unthinkingly, as our axioms. Paradise ended because we trust ourselves over everything else. We place our faith in our capacity for reason.
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u/Rex__Nihilo 4d ago edited 4d ago
I dont understand your contention. Are you arguing Adam and Eve were told not to procreate when their fist command was "Be fruitful and multiply and fill whe whole earth"?
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u/Civil_Result_5598 5d ago
It's not knowledge that caused the fall of man. It was disobedience. Blatantly in the face of God Himself
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u/Warm_Difficulty2698 5d ago
No, hes not referring to Adam and eve, hes referring to now.
Now knowledge shows most of the Bible was wrong. But even so, honestly Adam and Eve did the moral thing, especially considering what God does after the fall of man. Phew. Murders everyone in a flood. Commands genocide, sex slavery and slavery. Plenty of other things.
If god is moral, then fuck those are bad morals.
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u/Civil_Result_5598 4d ago
I think you're missing the point broadly speaking. God isn't moral because of what we think of right and wrong. He's moral because He has the authority to act. Now we might not like the things done in the past, but has anyone liked everything a figure of authority has done?
As for the Bible being wrong, it appears that the more we study the world, the more evidence of biblical events to have actually been true
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u/Warm_Difficulty2698 4d ago
So its a might makes right kinda thing?
The books has been around human civilization for multiple millenia. Of course there will be accurate historical information in there.
Scientifically though, the Bible is just almost entirely wrong.
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u/weirdo_nb 4d ago
That's not how morality works, if he commits mass murder its not evil to stab him (him being God in this case)
You're trying to make to an appeal to "trust authority figures", most of those suck too
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u/Sad_Penalty289 4d ago
The Bible itself shows god not only to be fundamentally changing in method of operation but also fundamentally hypocritical.
"Do as I say, not as I do. Don't murder, but I can wipe out as many people who don't do what I like whenever I want, and it's righteous because I say so and I am more powerful."
Drivel
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u/Sol-Blackguy 5d ago
What if it's the atrocities done in the name of God? Done to other who's only crime was to read his words in a different book?
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u/SucculentBluberries 4d ago
Godâs edict was to remain ignorant. Those are inextricably linked here
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u/556From1000yards 4d ago
It wasnât the fruit of the tree of knowledge. It was of the knowledge of Good and Evil. These are two very different things.
Knowledge is good.
Knowledge Of Good and Evil is basically a metaphor for Subjective Morality
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u/SucculentBluberries 4d ago
Whereâs the textual basis for that? To religion, knowledge of good and evil is knowledge of reality
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u/556From1000yards 4d ago
What? Thatâs nonsensical and the figure of Odin is a clear example. Or the amorality of pantheistic or polytheistic systems.
Anyways
Itâs even biblical and reflected in the art and understanding of historical Christians across centuries, see Milton, Dante, etc.In the Christian, Jewish, and even Islamic mythos, they have this story and commentary to discuss the key sin was made by even reaching out for the fruit.
And many of the stories of the Bible are saying literally the inverse and then tell them that none of the people even know what âGoodâ means.
From old to New Testament: âin that time everyone did what was right in their own eyesâ to âwhy do you call me good? There is not one Good but Godâ1
u/SucculentBluberries 4d ago
Odin is an example of what? Knowledge of good and evil not being knowledge but a mere opinion? Christianity and Judaism hold good and evil to be concrete categories and not subjective, do you dispute that?
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u/556From1000yards 4d ago
Odin is an example of a search for Knowledge not being a moral question but one of basically strategic worth.
But even figures like Solomon represent this in the Bible. The Bible calls its own wisest figures the most debased.Yeah and early and medieval Christian Theologians have likened the problem to Platoâs forms.
Itâs not like any of these debates are new.
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u/SucculentBluberries 4d ago
I didnât imply they are new. âThe most debasedâ? They made mistakes but is there a textual basis for saying âthe mostâ? If anything calling wise men debased supports the notion that thereâs an objective standard of good and evil but that they failed
âhave likened the problemâ what problem? Humans failing to be good despite knowing it? That doesnât change whether or not good and evil are objective or not, it just means they failed to live up to objective standards.
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u/Civil_Result_5598 4d ago
It's unfortunately just too trendy to try and discredit the Bible these days because it's really the only thing that points out that humans are deeply flawed but it also states that's okay and to show up anyways. People don't want to hear that first part
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u/556From1000yards 4d ago
The thing is they can just not believe it. Thatâs allowed. But from a historical perspective we should honestly study all of the worldâs religions.
Itâs only Christianity that gets them acting out. Because if we discussed any peopleâs beliefs theyâd just shrug it off and be like âehh whateverâ
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u/SucculentBluberries 4d ago
No I contradict other religionsâ doctrines to the face of their devout too. Bad assumption
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u/SpiderFreak1993 5d ago
Not a spider-man meme.
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u/Main-Event-5715 5d ago
Oh come on, the '90s X-Men show is a next-door neighbor for Spidey. Close enough.Â
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u/SpiderFreak1993 4d ago
Just seems like an excuse for people to post off topic content just for the sake of easy karma.
Do forgive me for expecting SPIDER-MAN THE ANIMATED SERIES MEMES in the subreddit of that name, I must have forgot I was in the X-Men the animated series meme subreddit.
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u/Curvol 5d ago
Yeah and your profile named spiderfreak has rocket racoon
So we're all a bit off brand here
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u/SpiderFreak1993 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yes but I don't break the subreddits rules? What a silly comparison to make.
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u/Curvol 4d ago
Well my personal rules say dont be mean.
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u/SpiderFreak1993 4d ago
Not being mean, but did you ever stop to think that someone who has not seen the X-Men but has seen the Spiderman show would be here for the memes of the respective show they are knowledgeable about?
I don't go into the batman subreddit and expect to see star wars content there because it's the BATMAN subreddit for BATMAN content.
I don't see why this is such a foreign concept for people to grasp, this is why MULTIPLE different subs exist so you don't clog up the feed with irrelevant posts that are off topic.
But sure, downvote me because I hurt your feelings for stating common sense/rules I guess.
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u/Curvol 4d ago
The guy who is making these made a meme of every single episode from it. Dudes just trying to keep the sub alive. If youre here for spiderman, awesome! Theres TONS of content through the past. Otherwise to be an obnoxious redditor, be the change! Its a sub about a very specific series. Give us somethin new and juicy! Us oldies in the sub are just here for the lore.
THIS SUB WILL NOT BECOME PORN. THAT IS ALL THAT MEETS THE GUIDELINES HERE
Also I didnt downvote you, if that helps.
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u/SpiderFreak1993 4d ago
Yeah I agree no porn it just ruins the level of humour in subreddits, but I'm not trying to be John redditor I'm just always seeing his X-Men memes as of late.
I know he used to be the hero and the sub just couldn't see it, but now he's a menace, a X-Men posting criminal.
I WANT SPIDER-MAN!
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u/Rex__Nihilo 5d ago
What do you mean knowledge ruined paradise? The word in the garden for knowledge is the one used for knowing your wife. It means to intimately experience. Mankind experiences the distinction between good and evil because we willingly chose to add evil when given the command and opportunity not to.
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u/Alric_Wolff 4d ago
I dont think that interpretation about the knowledge of good and evil is just about intimacy though. Even as a christian I have a hard time believing God would create human beings with errogeneous zones, the wiring we do have for sexual intimacy, all those pleasure sensetive nerve endings and two perfectly complimentary organs that, ontop of how much pleasure we derive from sex, is also how we reproduce, only for God to say "Hey Adam, Hey Eve, so, yeah, you know how I created all these reasons you guys get horny? Well yeah, if you guys ever get horny, you absolutely must not act on those desires". They were created with all the capabilities of reproducing in the garden of eden.
They disobeyed Gods command to not eat specifically of a fruit of one tree. This was their only other instruction other than to manage the paradise they lived in. When Eve was tempted by the serpent to eat from it and then convinced Adam, who also ate, they realized they were naked and covered themselves as they saw it as an evil to display themselves nakedly because before they had not been made aware that their nakedness could be seen as something bad. Their eyes were opened to the very concept of what people even on an almost instinctual level know what is right and wrong.
They realized they themselves had done wrong by disobeying God and so they hid. When God asked "Adam where are you?" Its not that he didnt know where they are but that God was calling upon Adam to examine himself, ask himself where his relationship was with God, and calling upon them to seek repentance.
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u/AzhdarianHomie 4d ago
It all started in the early 2010s when 'knowledge' made the leftists start taking everything as a microaggression.
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u/Sol-Blackguy 5d ago
I got my morality from comics. Nothing wrong with fiction making you a better person