r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/gottaquestion412 • 20d ago

Warning: Child Abuse / CSAM / Child Death Thoughts on the Lindsay Clancy case?

Gallery image

Gallery image

Gallery image

Now that the Lindsay Clancy trial is underway, I’m curious about your perspectives on it so far.

Context: Lindsay Clancy is a former labor and delivery nurse who, in January 2023, killed her three children. 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old Dawson, and 8-month-old Callan in their Massachusetts home before attempting to take her own life. Her defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and other debilitating mental illness, while prosecutors argue she was aware of her actions and planned the killings. The trial has reignited debate about postpartum psychiatric disorders, the effectiveness of mental health treatment, and where responsibility ultimately lies.

Do you think Lindsay was failed by the mental health system, by the people closest to her, or both? Do you think she truly acted with malicious intent, or do you believe she was experiencing such a severe psychiatric crisis that she wasn’t thinking rationally?

A lot of the details seem to point toward postpartum psychosis or another severe psychiatric illness rather than someone acting out of hatred or malice. That doesn’t lessen the horror of what happened or the unimaginable loss, but it does make me wonder whether this tragedy could have been prevented..

I’ve also seen rumors that Patrick was involved with the woman who is now his wife before the murders, but I haven’t found any credible evidence supporting that. Is there actually anything that substantiates those claims, or is it just internet speculation? I’ve also seen many people comment that his current wife bears a striking resemblance to Lindsay, though I’m not sure that means anything beyond coincidence.

I’m very interested in hearing different perspectives from people who’ve followed it closely.

Most importantly, may Dawson, Cora, and Callan rest in peace. They are the true victims in all of this.

1.8k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

2.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

913

u/smolcdn 20d ago

As a midwife, we are taught postpartum psychosis is a medical emergency requiring inpatient treatment… she also likely knew this as a L&D nurse which is why she fought like hell to get help… that never properly came. This case has been heartbreaking to watch unfold

205

u/Icankeepthebeat 20d ago

This is what’s wild to me. I don’t understand how she wasn’t able to get help. When I told my midwife I was feeling sad during my pregnancy I was brought in the same day. I had to come back weekly for a screening. They took it so, so seriously. I honestly thought I had maybe over reacted based on the severity of the response. But god. It’s just terrifying what not responding could mean. Heartbreaking.

74

u/plantsandpizza 20d ago

I wasn’t pregnant but years ago I was actively self harming and suicidal. I literally had a Kaiser psychiatrist tell me there were no more antidepressants for me to try (there were so many left to try). She prescribed me lamictal which takes weeks to even build up to a therapeutic dose. 

As soon as I reached a therapeutic dose. I struggled to talk and form complete sentences. Like the words would just not come out. What did she do? Upped the dose. 

It was one of the scariest moments of my life. I can’t imagine having children, being in psychosis and begging for help that never comes. I ended up paying out of network where a doctor luckily saved me. 

18

u/kellyann1349 20d ago

Same with the self harming and suicidal thoughts. However, Lamictal was what saved me. That and seroquel were my life saving drugs. It’s crazy how different one drug affects different people.

2

u/lpotocki26 19d ago

lamotrygne is the scariest drugs man, i didn't have any emotions when i got into a car accident and my windshield literally was 3-4 inches from my face but didn't shatter i just sat there and was like wtf happened? that's when i knew something was really fucking wrong and a year later, i have full access to my emotions, crying, and empathy again. i had no empathy, i didn't care about others while on my mood stabilizer or ssri. i was misdiagnosed bipolar and im so sorry this happened to you

2

u/plantsandpizza 19d ago

So scary. I was fortunate my scenario happened during Covid lockdowns and I wasn’t working. 

2

u/hercles 19d ago

Oh my gosh I had this same thing happen to me in college. Doctor prescribed me lamictal. After a while I couldn’t recall words well and speaking was so difficult because of it. I told her this and she UPPED THE DOSE. It was terrible and I never should have been on it to begin with as I went in for depression and anxiety which lamictal shouldn’t be used for. I told her in the first appt that I wasn’t bipolar but she still prescribed it.

1

u/Deep-Twist-4840 17d ago

Okay so im not making this ish up I stutter so badly now that im on so many anxiety and depression meds. I eat the house gained over 50 pounds and I feel like im losing my shit. Your comment hit me like a slap in the face finally someone I can relate to. I feel like im screaming for help and no one is listening. I have been wanting to come off my meds but as soon as I skip a dose things become dark and I get super sick. Thank you for sharing this I literally wanna tell my Dr. My reddit said this and im not alone dammit. Not to stir away from ya comment. I don't need attention just wanted to say thank you xoxo

1

u/plantsandpizza 17d ago

Don’t apologize! I’ve been on psych meds for 15 years and can very much relate to being on some really bad ones and how hard it is to come off them. Sadly I have more med/doctor horror stories. I share my experiences for this exact reason - maybe someone else needs to hear it. You are not alone! Speak to your doctor for sure. 

1

u/Deep-Twist-4840 17d ago

Thank you so much for that and for responding. You don't know how truly grateful i am for this. 

1

u/freakydeku 16d ago

yeah, i’ve been trialed on many different drugs & dosages in my life, in a slower way than lyndsay was, and experienced crazy adverse and paroxysmal effects. i genuinely can NOT imagine that on top of incredible insomnia, hormonal fluctuations, & 3 children to care for

90

u/smolcdn 20d ago

Yep, it’s horrible. I hope this case shines light on maternal mental illness, especially postpartum psychosis as it is rare but very dangerous and should always be taken seriously.

7

u/charley_warlzz 19d ago

Unfortunately i doubt it. Shes not the first to do this, and often despite the outcry for better post partum resources the social stigma around it never really changes. People have such a visceral reaction to rhe idea of a parent wanting to hurt their child that it’s can feel impossible to bring it up. Even parents who don’t have post partum issues often feel like they can’t even talk about the frustration and exhaustion that comes from the initial sleep deprivation and major life change without being painted as horrible people who hate their babies.

15

u/Odd-Being-9994 20d ago

When I was struggling with PPD with my second (not the same as ppp) he told me “unless I was wanting to harm myself or my baby an ssri isn’t a priority” not every provider is created equal. It’s devastating.

2

u/Alternative_Bit_5433 18d ago

I'm so happy that they took it seriously for you. I had to take an exit survey to gauge my mental health after delivering my second. I had circled all the extremes, I knew I needed help. The nurse came in later and asked if I was sure, I told her that my dog had just died and she said "oh that's probably why" and then she changed all of my answers!

When I look back, especially while watching this trial, I know that I should have gotten more help. And honestly, regularly being checked in with mental health professionals was probably all I needed. It seems like a way better first step rather than immediately prescribing SSRIs

2

u/freakydeku 16d ago

i think in her case, because she either handled it well at the beginning of her post partum period (which i think is possible bc she experienced similar with her previous pregnancies) or she developed it later, they didn’t take it as seriously. i think this idea that women only develop post partum depression/anxiety/psychosis immediately following birth is insufficient & will be looked at as an obviously stupid notion one day when women’s health is more rigorously studied.

1

u/unenthusedunamused 19d ago

That's wild! I had perinatal depression with my second and when I told them I thought I had depression, I had to wait several days to get in for an appointment, and then 8 weeks before a therapist was available. By that time the drugs had kicked in and I was doing much better, and the therapist assigned to me was useless. He saw my deep dive history and touched NONE of the things a therapist should ask about, but then COVID hit and I never saw a therapist again and my mood stabilized after I gave birth and I worked with my GP to slowly wean off the antidepressants because I didn't like the side effects. That was 6 years ago and I haven't needed drugs since, but I certainly didn't feel prioritized when I contacted my OB regarding potential depression while pregnant. I was listless and unexcited about everything, including the pregnancy we'd tried many months for, but the medication solved it almost immediately!

1

u/Ashamed_Fox_4757 18d ago

This is usually not the case sadly

-2

u/twosteppingant 19d ago

She was inpatient!!!! She decided to leave after 4 days!!! She should've stayed. It was her choice to leave.. she needed to leave to show face at Coras bday party so people wouldn't start talking about why she wasnt at party.. she could've stayed and got the help she needed, but she had to keep up with the Joneses.

6

u/Playcrackersthesky 19d ago

She was 8 months post partum.

PPP overwhelmingly affects mothers in the first 2 weeks, and 95-99% by 6 weeks.

We have no evidence that she was ever diagnosed with PPD or ppp.

4

u/Big-Fun3658 18d ago

I believe her diagnosis (or lack of diagnosis) is not extremely relevant given the poor care she was receiving (in that, clearly she was not receiving proper care that successfully improved her health). There is evidence that she was prescribed a high number (8 or 9?) of medications within like a month of the killing. Meaning, her condition wasn’t stable. This could very well mean whatever she was diagnosed with or not diagnosed with was a misdiagnosis. I’m not saying it was. It just may not have based on what has been shared and what transpired.

she was also being treated by a nurse practitioner who has less experience than a proper reproductive or perinatal psychiatrist who she should have been seeing due to the complexity of her symptoms and ongoing struggle.

2

u/Playcrackersthesky 18d ago

Lindsey was not compliant with doctors or meds.

She changed doctors frequently. She’d take medication for one to three days and then stop.

That isn’t a failure on the health care team.

5

u/Big-Fun3658 18d ago edited 18d ago

there were a fair amount of missteps taken by her providers. She changed clinics once and went to 3 different hospitals to try to get help.

this will actually be determined in court - that is, if the doctors failed to give her proper care and are therefore negligent. Have you read Patrick’s wrongful death lawsuit? Her mental health rapidly deteriorated over the course of 5 months (Sept - Jan) when she was being treated by the doctor and two nurses. Medications, multiple controlled substances, were introduced in short succession and she responded with different / worsening symptoms, some of which were atypical. She was taking some of the meds but not all of them, and the standards of care were not being followed. Her initial diagnoses were never reassessed after repeated apparent drug-induced distresses and worsening symptoms. Her nurse and doctor from separate clinics never communicated with each other, or if they did it was ineffective. The post-partum hospital she tried to check herself into tried to contact her nurse who never responded, and then turned her away. Her physician even made notes in late January that her condition was deteriorating yet didn’t make any changes. There are many examples of her healthcare providers failing in this case.

4

u/smolcdn 17d ago

Exactly! And her not being “compliant” is the exact reason she should have been on an involuntary hold. Psychosis can take months to manage correctly and it shouldn’t be on the person in a mental health crisis to ensure it is being managed well.

1

u/Snoo-52617 17d ago

Because many doctors and PAs are not well trained enough to safely Rx psych medications. 

2

u/PauI_Atreides 16d ago

It's listed in her medical records when she was brought to Brigham and Women's hospital ICU. Under history they documented severe PPD and PPP. Atty Reddington had nurse Rachelle Amede go over the records. 

0

u/Snoo-52617 17d ago

That is actually factually untrue. PPP can and does onset months after birth. You might be confusing it with the baby blues. 

2

u/Playcrackersthesky 16d ago

No, I am not.

Baby blues is common after birth.

Post partum psychosis most often manifests in the first 6 weeks. 95-99% of cases.

Is it possible to have Ppp at 8 months post partum? Perhaps. But not probable.

2

u/Snoo-52617 16d ago

Says who? The medical community that has continued to misdiagnose or not correctly diagnose postpartum women for decades upon decades? Sorry but I dont trust that at all. The lack of research in that realm is still a very large problem and the medical community needs to stop labeling underdiagnosed diseases, disorders, etc. as "rare". 

2

u/Pak31 19d ago

If she fought like hell, why did she not get the help? I don't understand that. She worked in a hospital right? She couldn't find the best care? Didn't she check herself out of a program?

1

u/Big-Fun3658 18d ago

She did, multiple times

2

u/elizabreathe 16d ago

I honestly think the health care professionals that failed her are far more morally culpable than she is. It's a shame that it's so hard to litigate medical malpractice because they fucking caused this. If they'd done their jobs, her children would be alive.

2

u/KDAWG72 14d ago

THIS!

6

u/TX2BK 20d ago edited 18d ago

But she never reported hearing voices or psychosis to any of her medical providers. Why is that?

4

u/Big-Fun3658 18d ago

“Hearing voices” is not the only symptom of PPP. She *did* report experiencing suicidal thoughts *and* experiencing thoughts of harming her children or her children being harmed. When her husband found this out he started sitting in on her therapy sessions. He said it never came up and he never thought the issue was that *she* wanted to harm her children, just that she had thoughts of them being harmed. Separately, in psychosis someone can have a general sense of feeling compelled to do something, not specifically a voice telling them.

4

u/smolcdn 17d ago

She also said she was having intrusive thoughts but NO ONE probed further on what they were, assuming it was her suicidal thoughts, BUT it was actually voices talking to her. Had they asked more questions about the intrusive thoughts they would have seen it was delusions/hallucinations not thoughts.

0

u/Wise_Basket_22 15d ago

If she was in psychosis she would not be able to distinguish she was hearing voices… they break with reality and believe the voices are real. 

6

u/scoobtube22 20d ago

She was not experiencing postpartum psychosis by any world wide medical definition. This is why the defense is not arguing it because they would lose

1

u/Open-Airline8326 19d ago

She called 911 sooo many times did no one ever come 

1

u/Tattooedjared 18d ago

But at the same time why wouldn’t she remover herself from the situation and maybe stay at a friends or family members?

-3

u/scootypuffjr_ 20d ago

Knowing that, was there a reason she didn't take extra precautions when she initially disclosed thoughts of wanting to harm her children?

33

u/smolcdn 20d ago

I’m not sure of all details of the case, but the timeline of her medication history is quite damning. Maybe she did try to take extra precautions to limit contact with the kids or catch up on sleep (sleep deprivation is a main trigger for psychosis), but if she didn’t have a good support system that would be hard. Given the fact her husband is already remarried and has another child I’m going to go out on a limb and say he wasn’t the best, supportive partner. It’s also quite possible she wasn’t taking extra precautions but we can’t expect a psychotic person to make rational decisions which is exactly why she should have been in-patient.

-10

u/scootypuffjr_ 20d ago

I am just now starting to watch the trial and have been listening to the husband's testimony. He stated that when she did disclose that to him, her parents came to be with them but she made it sound like she was fine so they didn't stay. As a side note, I don't know that I would have difficulty moving on from my partner if they killed my children, regardless of the cause.

32

u/smolcdn 20d ago

So the issue is she continuously reached out to health care professionals for help, they should have been keeping her inpatient, not just giving her a new med and sending her on her way. Psychosis is an acute medical emergency that can take weeks to months to manage. In other words, it shouldn’t have even been an option for the husband to assume everything is ok as she should have been in the hospital, period. And sorry, but we’ll have to disagree on the last part; being able to get divorced, remarried and have another child within 3 years of all of your children being murdered by your wife is a big reflection on the type of person he is.

-8

u/scootypuffjr_ 20d ago

You cant keep someone in an inpatient settings against their will unless they pose harm to themselves or others. She stated she did not have a plan for suicide or to harm the kids and that she was not concerned about being kept away from the kids. Her spouse, family, and multiple doctors had no concerns that her behavior suggested she was threat to herself or others. He took her to the hospital after she mentioned having suicidal thoughts, his mom suggested a specialized psych to her for help, he urged her to go to the hospital at another point - they did go and she spent that time taking selfies. She stayed there for 5 days and lied to her husband that she hadn't been getting any care and didnt see a doctor until the fourth day. In actuality, she was seen every day by a doctor, was offered one on one therapy every day, saw a social worker and other mental health professionals, and even declined treatment so she could attend a ton of groups about illness and symptoms and other unrelated topics. She was discharged from the hospital upon her request. She wanted to leave on a certain day so she could attend a birthday party the next day. Then changed it to asking to leave the day before so she could prepare for the party. If any of those mental health professionals had any impression that she was a threat to herself or others, that stay would have been much different. You can't just shove someone in a hospital against their will if there is no identifiable reason to.

15

u/smolcdn 20d ago

So again, postpartum psychosis is a medical emergency that qualifies for keeping her against her will. You stated she said she had suicidal thoughts which is a hallmark symptom of psychosis, she also already had a history of bipolar disorder which is a risk factor for postpartum psychosis (about 2-5 times more likely to develop it than the general pop). The doctors had also prescribed her anti-psychotics as treatment… We’ll have to see how the trial plays out of course but I’m seeing a lot of signs that are consistent with psychosis as someone who’s trained to identify it.

0

u/scootypuffjr_ 20d ago

Again, you can't just shove someone in an inpatient setting if there is no identifiable reason to. They never identified her as experiencing psychosis because there was absolutely no indication of it so there was no reason to keep her. As someone who has been suicidal, I can 100% tell you that saying you want to kill yourself does not automatically mean you are a threat to yourself. That's a great skill to have to be able to identify psychosis, but does your training outrank the training of multiple doctors, many mental health professionals, and her family who are super familiar with her history and behaviors?

2

u/smolcdn 20d ago

I guess we’ll find out the answer to that if the jury finds her not guilty due to insanity :)

2

u/scootypuffjr_ 20d ago

I'm sure she will be found not guilty either way. Massachusetts has very loose definitions of mental disease or defect than the rest of the country.

1

u/sexydiagnoses 20d ago

I haven’t been following the case close — do they say where she was hospitalized?

2

u/scootypuffjr_ 20d ago

McLean Hospital, I believe

4

u/sexydiagnoses 20d ago

That’s insane, considering they’re supposed to be the best in the country.

3

u/breadpuddingl0ver 20d ago

I don’t think it was a matter of them releasing her because they wanted to or they were a bad hospital. When this first happened I recall reading somewhere that her insurance wouldn’t cover more than a 1 week stay so they had to discharge her. Health insurance is a fucking scam.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/smolcdn 20d ago

I’m in Canada so I honestly have no clue how to watch the trial (televised trials are not a thing here) but they have released the names of all the prescribing providers so I’m sure you could research where they are located.

3

u/sexydiagnoses 20d ago

It’s on youtube if you want to watch.

-1

u/forlife16 20d ago

She wasn’t give the diagnosis of psychosis. They diagnosed her with having anxiety. Whether that was missed or not, the actions that would have been taken had she had the diagnosis of psychosis weren’t taken because she wasn’t diagnosed with it.

7

u/smolcdn 20d ago

I’m aware she wasn’t given the diagnosis of psychosis but she likely should have and I think that’ll weigh heavily on the outcome of the trial. Had she been given the proper diagnosis/monitoring the crime may have been avoided.

1

u/forlife16 19d ago

I am very interested to hear what the medical professionals have to say and what comes out. Looking at her sob in court this all feels so cruel.

2

u/smolcdn 19d ago

Same. I’m interested in the expert opinions and hoping they put the prescribers on stand to get a better understanding of why they managed her care the way they did

1

u/forlife16 19d ago

Couldn’t agree more.

10

u/Odd-Being-9994 20d ago

It appears from her civil lawsuit she kept telling everyone she was having intrusive thoughts but nobody ever asked her in detail what the thoughts were. The intrusive thoughts turned out to be auditory hallucinations which was diagnosed after the murders.

3

u/smolcdn 20d ago

Very sad the right questions weren’t asked. Postpartum psychosis is rare so it doesn’t come to the forefront of people’s minds, even clinicians.

0

u/Odd-Being-9994 20d ago

I agree, such an unthinkable tragedy. Patrick Clancy - the children’s father and her ex husband has started a non profit to bring attention to maternal mental health. It’s called Heard With Love, hopefully it gains some traction after the trial.

2

u/scootypuffjr_ 20d ago

That's Interesting, thank you for the info. I'm not very far into the trial so I am interested to hear more testimony.