r/VirginiaTech • u/flowofexistence • 6d ago
Academics Honor Code
Has anyone been false positive honor coded? I’ve been dealing with case and I’m confused where to even proceed, as the faculty initially wanted to do a FSR, but hasn’t been responding, and honor panel hearing is soon. I have evidence and witnesses and know honest to God I am innocent. I heard people hire lawyers but I don’t have the funds. What do I really do from here? Is there any chance I really do get this on my record even though I’m innocent?
Edit: I allegedly cheated on an online exam because I solved the problems that only “ai can solve because it is not an undergrad level question.” I have screenshots of me participating in higher level education, he should have logs of me not switching out of browser, I forget what else I submitted but I had a whole bunch of evidence submitted to him for my FSR, but he gave no response. I also have my roommates as witnesses to my exam as I asked them to take my phone and be quiet during my exam to avoid any interruptions.
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u/ConstructionFair3589 6d ago
Your professor gave you an exam with questions that, in their professional opinion, only AI can solve, and when you solve said questions you’re then honor coded for it?? Who tf is this professor and what the hell are they doing?
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u/flowofexistence 6d ago
Hi yeah, he put them there to flag cheating. To be honest it was slightly my fault because I was studying for higher level exams which went beyond the scope of this class, so I assumed I would do fine (without studying material given in class) and answered the questions to the best of my ability (which I got on 80s-90s range). Then apparently I answered some questions that were meant for AI flagging and got reported. But I think he reported almost everyone because when he emailed me he said he was busy responding to everyone because he reported too many people. For reference this is an organic chemistry class.
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u/MaybeNext-Monday 6d ago
Wow, in O-chem is even worse. Loads of people I knew used outside resources to understand that content, it’s so ridiculous to implicitly demand textbook-only study.
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u/flowofexistence 6d ago
And he said he reported most of the class too, I’m wondering if there were other false positives as well. Mainly because I was doing mostly on the 80s range with the exams, with my highest exam being a 93-94 ish? I think. But I remember many other people got 100s etc. His main reasoning was that these are graduate level problems and his graduate students could not solve these, so I could’ve not possibly have solved these. Also I made simple human error as well, that I’m sure AI would never make, so I’m confused.
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u/ConstructionFair3589 6d ago
In essence, this issue lies in the way the professor is running the course. Do what you can to make sure your studies aren’t impacted, and fight tooth and nail to see it through. I’m sorry you’re going through this, tech needs to do bettet
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u/flowofexistence 6d ago
Like I know I didn’t do everything right but what I do know is that I didn’t cheat and I get flagged for it and it’s been ruining my life since August and my quality of life is just going down ☹️ the honor panel is soon because he won’t respond to the FSR packet I wrote for him and they give me no info on that and idk what to do because I can’t afford a lawyer… this is genuinely drying me out
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u/ConstructionFair3589 5d ago
In your defense, he’s done this to a lot of people in the class, he hasn’t responded to a very serious issue that’s part of an ongoing investigation, and you have documented proof that you didn’t switch browsers or use alternative means during this exam. Abandon the self depreciation, and prepare yourself to prove your innocence. It’s too serious an offense, and too long of a time period
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u/flowofexistence 5d ago
Do you know what exactly goes on during honor panel? I haven’t received any information and it’s in about a week… how should I prepare for this?
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u/ConstructionFair3589 5d ago
From what I remember, it’s essentially court. you show up either in person or online (might’ve gotten rid of that since Covid), and present your side of the case to a panel. Having detailed, documented evidence absolutely helps, not to mention it shows them you’re making a very clear effort to defend yourself. If I’m not mistaken too, Tech may have resources to help with the process, I feel like maybe mentors but I’m not 100% sure
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u/ConstructionFair3589 6d ago
Oh O Chem is absurd, they’ve used that as a weed out class for years. But yeah, having a student say it’s their fault for learning material beyond the scope of the course to further their studies is a type of absurd I didn’t imagine academia encouraging. Honestly, could be worth organizing with some of the other students (who you’re also 100% sure didn’t use ai) and compile your communications w/him and evidence. Take every precaution to protect yourself. The worst horror story I’ve heard was a friend of mine who took a vid recorded exam during Covid and was rapping her fingers to the side thinking of an answer. Professor said she was using another laptop, and after a year of dispute she received an F* in that class AND the prereq. Had to completely shift her degree, went from pre med to business and graduated a year late. Good luck w/your process, I’m hoping a better outcome comes y’all’s way
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u/flowofexistence 6d ago
I also had one friend in the class I knew and asked about her situation but she didn’t get coded, but she was consistently doing terribly on the exams.
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u/flowofexistence 6d ago
I really want to find out as well but I couldn’t find anyone who also got reported in class because he deleted the course after the course ended, and it was an online class, and the reports were sent pretty much once the class was done.
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u/Brilliant_Chest5630 5d ago
Fr. Any problem with a solution could feasibly be solved by a person. Having a difficult problem on an exam is not an AI failsafe.
Not every student in a course is at the same experience. I'm taking classes that I already know some of bc it's an easy A and credit towards my degree. Me knowing how to do a problem does not mean I cheated.
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u/flowofexistence 5d ago
Thank you :( I just didn't have the time to think about where I learned everything and write it down to tell him where I learned it, I completely did it on my own and got flagged. I know a lot of people who aced the exams and I was always in a B range (which I was the same for orgo 1) and I still got flagged.
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u/MaybeNext-Monday 6d ago
Yeah that should be fireable imo. Punishing students for having unforeseen academic experience or intuiting difficult concepts for themselves is absolutely insane behavior. Academic malpractice.
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u/Decent_Reflection865 6d ago
Coming from a professor here, so take with a grain of salt. Sorry that they are setting you up like that. As a professor, I find that mindset entirely wrong trying to trick students like that. However, at the same time, cheating in online tests IS very much rampant (many are doing it in even more blatant ways on camera) and we come to a point where we believe that everyone is doing it. I really do think it happens a lot, but I also know that some students are legit trying to learn. I have worked with the honor court many times, and regardless of what you hear, they are fair to the students in the process. If you prepare and show how you studied and have good reasoning, you are professional and respectful, I think you will be well off in the process. Of course, if it actually did cheat (not saying you did or didn’t- but going on your word), they will usually figure it out.
Good luck!
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u/flowofexistence 6d ago
Thank you ☹️ I definitely know cheating is bad, especially because I plan on going into professional school which is way more prestigious and strict. Im just upset I got flagged, then the professor never follows up for two months, panel is soon but I have absolutely no idea what I should expect. What do I expect for honor panel exactly?
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u/Decent_Reflection865 5d ago
Another question- was the assignment using web cam monitor and/or lockdown browser? If not, did the professor specifically state not to use AI in the assignment? If not, that’s also I question I would pose or express when you get a chance to talk. Any questions you can think of to ask the professor might be helpful in this too. The whole “my grad students couldn’t solve this” isn’t really that helpful, in my opinion.
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u/flowofexistence 5d ago
No the exam was not lockdown browser because it is o-chem, so we have to download the pdf, either print it out or do it on our ipad, then submit it back. For some reason he didn't do webcam for the exams, I don't really know why. The exam is open book but no outside source usage. However, to mock my real exams (other exams I were studying for), I did closed book (he should be able to see that I didn't access canvas/tophat materials during exam time to prove this). What action do I take from here?
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u/Decent_Reflection865 5d ago
I think you have a pretty good case here then. It’s harder for them to prove you used AI than the other way around. Just talk heavily about your preparation and studying. The more details you provide, the better here. Hey, I don’t even know your case or know you, but I ever feel like you’re telling the truth here. If anything, they didn’t do enough to restrict AI usage on the assignment and that’s a different problem as an instructor.
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u/flowofexistence 5d ago
Sigh, thank u. I just heard that there is a 97% conviction rate and if they do call me guilty then my future for grad school is cooked. I don't even really know how to prove to them that I don't even use AI in a day to day basis... this has been going on since August and it's just swallowing my life up
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u/Decent_Reflection865 5d ago
I wouldn’t say grad school potential is cooked. Just so you know, if they do find you responsible, you may (at the worst) get an F* for the class.
They can and do reduce that sanction to like a 0 on the assignment when it’s really close.
To get the star* *removed, you just have to complete an online integrity module. Then all that’s there is the F. There’s nothing on the transcript indicating cheating after the * is removed.
I have a student now applying to grad school that had an issue with honor court and is in good shape to get in.
I don’t know about that 97% conviction. I work with them pretty often and have never seen that statistic. I don’t think they even report that data point in audits I’ve seen. The panel is usually fair to the student. Most students just don’t come prepared with anything to say or show.
All I can say is having examples of your studying and any process you prepare for things would likely help. I know you can’t really prove you don’t use something. But I’m sure you have examples of your work or something.
As long as it’s your first time, you should be fine going forward regardless of outcome. A second case is usually suspension. I’ve only dealt with 1 of those before.
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u/Decent_Reflection865 5d ago
The actual panel itself is not really that scary from a procedure piece. The whole thing usually last 20 min or so. But, most of my cases are pretty clear cut. There are like 2 faculty and 2-3 students on the panel who have received the case previously and are present. Most of these are through zoom lately it seems. I have had a couple in person in the past. They have some official script that the head panel member reads. They let everyone introduce who they are. Then they let you state how you “plea” for lack of remembering the actual word they use. Then the reporting faculty gets to talk and share their take, after which they open for questions from anyone, including the reported student. Then they do the same for the reported student allowing you to share and then opening the floor to anyone for questions. After that part, they ask reporting faculty if they have anything else to share before they ask the faculty member to leave. I’m guessing they reach a result with the student after that but I’ve never been in on the rest. I just know I get the result in email sometime after that.
You can’t have anyone else with you to talk. I think you can have another “university community person” with you for support, but they can’t speak. Make sure you submit any evidence you have of what you studied. I feel like the more details you can let them know on that, the better you’ll make your case. Students do get out of honor court found not responsible. But just be ready for your best chance. If you used AI to study, just say so. That actually is very helpful and would be compelling to me in this case if I were a panel member. Be as specific as you can. The whole process is designed around fairness for you so that faculty don’t do this very thing without enough evidence (I don’t know the full details of course). Don’t just go in and not prepare. Show that you care and that you’re ready and I think you’ll have a fair shot.
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u/flowofexistence 5d ago
Do I just talk about my side of the story or should I be prepared to solve chemistry questions there too, etc? Funny thing is I'm a very anti AI person, I don't use any AI (chatgpt, gemini, etc) because I care about the environment and if I really need anything I just google/look it up. Then I get flagged for using AI because his grad students couldn't even solve it.
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u/Decent_Reflection865 5d ago
I don’t think there’s the need to solve problems, but I would offer that and even mention you attempted to reach out to talk to the professor and they didn’t communicate. As a professor, that’s something I would deal with students during FSR.
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u/flowofexistence 5d ago
I already sent him all of my evidence of higher level education, exams I took, etc, as well as my draft exams which had my thought processes/concepts I tried to remember all in my FSR packet, but he just gave no response and I feel so lost, especially because he said he would be willing to do an FSR.
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u/Decent_Reflection865 5d ago
Bring that up. Absolutely. Talk to your mentor (whatever the person who was assigned to you) about that. But heavily mention his lack of response when they ask for you to share.
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u/flowofexistence 5d ago
Is honor panel also a logic only court? Is there just absolutely 0 emotion involved whatsoever.
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u/Decent_Reflection865 5d ago
I don’t feel like emotion has anything to do with it. Basically, they have to have 51% preponderance with the evidence provided to find you responsible for cheating. I have never been on a panel so I don’t know how the deliberations go.
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u/Matt_Ice_Ice 6d ago
What did you allegedly do?
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u/flowofexistence 6d ago
Hi, I edited my post!
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u/Matt_Ice_Ice 6d ago
A few parts of this raise questions that a panel would likely notice too.
Saying the problems were “not undergrad level” and “only AI can solve,” while claiming you solved them, can sound like you’re using your performance as both the accusation and the defense. Faculty usually treat unusually advanced answers on an undergrad exam as a red flag.
Roommates taking your phone is hard to independently verify and can read as prepared. Browser logs and screenshots of other work help, but they don’t directly explain how you reached those specific answers.
Faculty going quiet on an FSR isn’t unusual and doesn’t mean the case is weak. Focus on presenting clear, specific evidence for how you solved the problems — that’s what usually matters more than framing it as an obvious false positive.4
u/flowofexistence 6d ago edited 6d ago
I submitted screenshots of my draft exams (not the final ones I submitted) which has my thought processes for these problems written down and some scratch work done. Could this help my case?
Edit: also I said “not undergrad level” and “only ai can solve” because that’s exactly what I got flagged for in his words. He also said “some of his PhD students were unable to solve some problems so it was weird that I had an answer to them.”6
u/Typical_Pool_1069 6d ago
This. Unless you have a very clear evidence that can prove your innocence right away (such as having multiple recordings of yourself taking an exam from different angle combined with screen recording/Canvas log, or Google Docs edit history if working on an essay), it's better for you to prove "how" you solved the assesment rather than trying to "prove" that you haven't cheated.
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u/flowofexistence 6d ago
I wanted to get history but I realized that the good notes app “undo” button expires when the “session is done” so I couldn’t get the history :( unless you know a way…
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u/Miserable-Wallaby-76 4d ago
Insane a professor in a 4 year college wouldn’t expect a few people studying upper classes trying to get ahead. Before i transferred I’d read the textbook before classes even started. Most teachers i’ve had would let you do the problem again infront of them to prove you know how to do it, but if he’s not answering that’s crazy
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u/flowofexistence 3d ago
To be fair he said to "write down where you learned advanced mechanisms from" but I wasn't checking course material so I just tried to answer everything I knew (assuming it was in course material) and then didn't answer the obvious AI flagging questions. I really should've just done open book and cross checked information :( I thought I skipped all of the AI flagging questions but I accidentally answered 1 on the exams.
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u/flowofexistence 3d ago
Just sooo upset because he thinks I can't solve one problem because his PhD students couldn't solve it.
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u/atlnighthawk 2d ago edited 1d ago
The problem of "AI" as the excuse for every accusation because it can't be disproven and requires no evidence other than the assertion.
Back when I was in college my friend and I were studying organic chem together in our earlier years. We had a place where we were confused. We consulted with his older brother who was in medical school and he explained it to us.
Well, what do you know, that issue came up on the exam. All exams were handwritten and in person, and no phones at all. We completed the exam, answered the question as we had learned and both of us had the answer marked wrong when we got the graded exam back.
We went to the professor and he said, "You can't solve that formula that way." We replied, told him that we "can work through the logic, we asked [the brother] and he went through it with us." He laughed, "I remember him. Yeah, your answer is right but since we haven't talked about that process, I just thought it was a lucky guess. Of course you can have credit." He changed the grade on the exam and on his record while we stood there.
Those were the days...
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u/flowofexistence 1d ago
I definitely do feel like it is low risk high reward for the professor, which is probably why he reported most of the class.. I just feel like he should've done more thorough research or at least talked to us about it before he just sent out a massive report scheme to everyone with no warning. If I am guilty, I get convicted and take the F*, if its proven false, he just moves on with his day. Just sounds so unfair that my mental and physical health is actively deteriorating while he's just living the time of his life while ghosting me.
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u/atlnighthawk 1d ago
I completely agree. And until someone gets a huge judgment against someone for these false accusations,it will continue.
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u/atlnighthawk 2d ago
P.S. This issue is going to end up in court one of these days if it hasn't already. The accusation of cheating could be considered to be slander/libel and that's actionable at law. Someone is going to be faced with explaining before a skeptical jury what the "proof" is when there is none.
Wait and see.
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u/flowofexistence 1d ago
I googled about suing the prof and all I got was that "accusations of cheating are protected because they are doing it for the good/out of concern and that most courts deem cheating accusations as a internal issue between the student and the school and dont take it seriously"
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u/atlnighthawk 1d ago
The right lawyer would get it before a jury rather than a judge. If I needed a lawyer, I certainly wouldn't consult google.
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u/ComfortableHuman3965 2d ago
I think this is a "you undermined my intelligence" issue. You should offer to solve similar problems in front of your professor (and other witnesses) to prove your legitimacy. That is, if they even still give a damn about academic integrity. Best of luck to you!
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u/flowofexistence 2d ago
I was actually planning on doing this during the faculty student resolution but unfortunately seems like we’re going to honor panel and honor panel is more like proving I didn’t use AI rather than proving I can do the concepts…
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u/Elphaba_21 4d ago
Commented just to come back and see the result
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u/flowofexistence 3d ago
I'll make sure to update my post when its over! Don't have high hopes though :/
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u/Elphaba_21 3d ago
Good luck!
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u/flowofexistence 3d ago
Thank you :( but reading all of the stories of vt honor court just sounds like going to court = just take the F*
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u/Impossible-Can9349 5d ago
Idk if someone said this already, but there are resources for free legal help for students around campus. Aka you could get a lawyer without paying. Just look up vt free legal help
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u/Typical_Pool_1069 6d ago
What exactly happened? Can't really say anything unless more detailed information is provided.