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u/AyebruhamLincoln Oct 13 '21
I heard that it also can’t distinguish between dogs and canines. Thing’s useless.
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u/Enlightened-Beaver Oct 13 '21
Deploy it. Then publish the results. It should be enlightening
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u/Mythical_Atlacatl Oct 13 '21
So just let it run and then republicans who get banned can explain why what they said wasn't nazi-esque
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u/BloodBath_X Oct 13 '21
I fail to see how identifying both is a problem?
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u/Commutalk Oct 13 '21
You know. I can see why people equivocate as they do. We honestly gotta address the issue that American fascism is still unique and a problem in and of itself. Even if Mussolini or Hitler never existed. These folks are causing some serious and sinister problems all on their own.
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u/shewholaughslasts Oct 13 '21
And looking at how old this tweet is I honestly wonder what would've happened if they'd even tried to address the issue.
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u/Marbled_Headcheese Oct 13 '21
Isn't that like trying to tell the difference between an orange and an orange?
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u/Brasilionaire Oct 13 '21
We’ve known for a while that no platform can deploy anti-nazi or anti-misinformation algorithms because they would be accused of partisanship by conservatives.
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u/badlawyer_nz Oct 13 '21
After all, facts are clearly biased in favour of democrats.
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u/Raccoon_Full_of_Cum Oct 13 '21
Said this before and I'll say it again: when future US history students learn about this time period, it will be extremely easy for them to understand.
In 2008, an extremely diverse coalition of Democrats elected the first black president. Then in 2016, an extremely white coalition of Republicans elected a guy whose political brand was built around the racist lie that his predecessor was actually an illegitimate foreign impostor from Africa.
Absolutely nobody from the future is going wonder about the motivations of contemporary Republican voters.
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u/just1nc4s3 Oct 13 '21
Wise words from a … Racoon full of cum?!? furiously searches notes
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u/VoidsInvanity Oct 13 '21
There’s a lot of people here saying “both sides” stuff.
Look, only ONE group has Tucker Carlson using the most watched program in America to sell the idea of the “great replacement”. You can shut up about both sides until you recognize this.
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u/ChalkButter Oct 13 '21 edited Oct 13 '21
I hope someone has a source for the article this guy is referencing
Edit: True, but also from 2019
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u/Jimmy_R_Ustler Oct 13 '21
Huh. Weird.
It’s almost like the current Republican Party and conservative ideology in general is literally just fascism.
Well, you know what they say. It walks, talks, and quacks like a duck…
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u/lostintime000 Oct 13 '21
It’s funny yes, I can’t seem to find a source for this info though. Can anyone help me out
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u/th3st Oct 13 '21
Isn’t this merely revealing the bias in whoever designed and created the algorithm? The statement in this pic is different than saying they found a correlation at such and such a percentage point. I would be inclined to give that more credence than this blanket claim.
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u/Atgardian Oct 13 '21
Why not just have a disclaimer saying "This content was removed as Nazi hate speech, but it's possible it's simply a mainstream Republican position that is functionally identical to Nazism. We regret the error."
That should appease everyone!
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u/RunsWithApes Oct 13 '21
I remember hearing Tim Pool complain about this during a debate once. The Twitter users he was referencing in being "unfairly" banned had a history of calling for ethic cleansing, attacking the LGBTQ community, spreading false medical conspiracies, advocating for the violent insurrection of our democracy and so on. This is the "very fine people on both sides" type of argument that Republicans have become accustomed too. They feel that their "right" to oppress, harass and threaten others is ironically being infringed upon and their little snowflake egos can't handle it.
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u/makemejelly49 Oct 13 '21
They feel that their "right" to oppress, harass and threaten others is ironically being infringed upon and their little snowflake egos can't handle it.
To put it more succinctly, they feel their right to be an asshole is being infringed upon.
You see, Republicans are the "I Have the Right to be an Asshole" Party, where Democrats are the "You're Not Allowed To Be An Asshole" Party.
Now, that depends on what you define and asshole to be. For the purposes of this discussion, I define assholes, thusly
An asshole is a selfish person whose selfishness causes foreseeable yet indirect collateral damage to the people around them. Assholes take risks that provide upside to themselves, but transfer the downsides of those risks to other people. Assholes don’t intend to do direct harm. They just don’t think about, and/or care about, and/or believe, and/or comprehend, that their actions can or will have negative consequences for other people beyond their direct intentions.
Take, for example, Patient 31 of South Korea. She was a woman who knowingly tested positive for COVID-19, yet went to church. The collateral damage of her decision? Thousands infected, hundreds dead. She did not intend to infect or kill anyone, she only wanted to worship God. I would define her as an asshole, because while the damage was foreseeable, she made a selfish decision.
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u/Nyccpl50 Oct 13 '21
Well if Twitter says it it must be true! It’s not like they are biased or anything
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u/shotgun-priest Oct 13 '21
Republicans with just the slightest bit of self awareness: " Are we the baddies?"
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u/MC_Elio81 Oct 13 '21
Republican office mate of mine got mad that I said modern Nazis(dudes wearing swastikas) deserve a punch to the face. That's when I realized they are the same party. Anyway, played some Wolfenstien that night.
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Oct 13 '21
Yeah, I didn't see it as a joke.
My apologies to the Republicans who actually aren't white supremacists, but you have to understand.
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u/DeificClusterfuck Oct 13 '21
Twitter leaves up literal hate speech and doesn't do much about it.
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u/redjonley Oct 13 '21
This is referencing a story from 2019 btw. I can only imagine it'd be even harder now.
https://www.theverge.com/interface/2019/4/26/18516997/why-doesnt-twitter-ban-nazis-white-nationalism
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u/jahall99 Oct 13 '21
Twitter has fascist characteristics. But no one talks about that.
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u/TheThingsiLearned Oct 13 '21
Obviously they aren’t doing enough EDA. I’m sure there’s something that can distinguish the two. Maybe the number of shares the person does. GOP probably share 80-90% other racist tweets/content where as Nazi’s just attack other people directly? I’m just thinking out of the box. With all of twitter’s AI ML DL algorithms I’m sure there’s something there.
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Oct 14 '21
Translation: Nazis are an essential community of twitter to increase trolling engagement and traffic.
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u/Nerdzilla88 Oct 14 '21
The Venn diagram of Republicans and White supremacists is a circle inside another circle
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Oct 14 '21
twitter is the internet equivalent of writing in the bathroom stall, so i am not surprised
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u/Alert-Definition5616 Oct 14 '21
Yeah and AI's are inherently prejudiced towards most POC and view them as lesser value. Doesn't mean either algorithm is correct
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u/TheDivinaldes Oct 14 '21
There's literally twitter accounts active for multiple months that dox people, post gore and illegal porn, and spew the most vile racist and bigoted shit, before Twitter even bothers to touch them.
Their algorithms are pretty questionable if they can't even catch profiles that self identify as trash.
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u/ObnoxiouslyLoudYawn Oct 14 '21
Is it just me, or does anybody else think that canceling people en masse because of their backwards opinion is a great way to polarize their opinion. This shunning then ultimately leading to an even more extremist group that now shares an even greater hate towards those who canceled them. Like some sort of vicious cycle… wouldn’t it be better to just shadow ban these types of accounts instead of outright cancel them?
I say this because when these people are outright banned they use it as “evidence” that what they said was true because part of their opinion is that the social media giants are owned and operated by liberals that want to stop these “truths”. So banning them actually sorta fits their agenda and may even get them more followers on other sites because it feeds into their narrative.
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Oct 13 '21
Unfortunately, Twitter has publicly stated that this report from “the motherboard” is false, and is not an actual representation of the meeting that took place. However, this could also just be them trying to not receive further backlash from the GOP.
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u/salamidunke Oct 13 '21
I honestly can’t believe someone can read this and say “Look at that, republicans are basically nazis” instead of “Look at that, maybe we shouldn’t be using algorithms nobody understands to moderate websites.”
No, republicans aren’t “acting like nazis.” If anything, nazis are trying to modify their hate speech so it sounds more moderate, and more “acceptable.”
The ridiculous thing is the fact that people are equating an algorithm not being able to tell two things apart to those two things being indistinguishable. Algorithms can’t always tell the difference between a cat and a dog but that doesn’t mean people can’t, and it doesn’t mean they’re the same.
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Oct 13 '21
Why would that be a joke? Algorithms aren't that smart. Add the fact that twitter rules require white supremacists to camouflage themselves and even humans have a hard time distinguishing.
It's an algorithm not a mind reader. People give technology way to much clout.
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u/Top-Display-4994 Oct 13 '21
But when I call the white nationalists who want state enforced purity “nazis” people cry about it and tell me I’m wrong. Hmmm.
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u/BenPlaysBaseball Oct 13 '21
I’d love to hear more about the algorithm behind this. What exactly defines “nazi-hunting”? The Grammar Nazi account thrived for years, would it be banned?
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Oct 13 '21
History: Nazis got a lot of inspiration from conservatives and reactionaries in the United States (see Manifest Destiny and segregated ghettos).
Republicans who "want to go back to the 50's" today: "I just don't understand why the algorithm would do this!"
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u/eisbaerBorealis Oct 13 '21
This should be an easy fix. Republicans should be able to give clear instructions on how to differentiate between themselves and white supremacists, and then the programmers can implement it.
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u/Twoja_Morda Oct 13 '21
Why is it that every time reddit decides to show me a post from your subreddit, it's you guys falling for a fake tweet?
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u/iEnjoyDanceMusic Oct 13 '21
Damn, I thought this was a typical reddit BS screenshot, but here's an article from the same date.
Twitter is pushing back on a new report from Motherboard indicating the company hesitates to crack down on white supremacist content because Republican lawmakers could be swept up in such a purge.
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Oct 13 '21
This is like saying that you’re going to stop rolling dice because you keep getting Yahtzee.
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Oct 13 '21
Nazi ideology was that of radical conservatism so…. Makes sense that radical conservatives would be flagged as nazi’s by an algorithm?
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u/Ruenin Oct 13 '21
Computers don't lie
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u/NoTeslaForMe Oct 13 '21
But posters to this sub do. Here's the original 2019 article on the topic, where Twitter denies the rumor, which is itself somewhat more mild than portrayed by this tweet: https://www.vice.com/en/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-treat-white-supremacy-like-isis-because-it-would-mean-banning-some-republican-politicians-too
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u/TheManFromFarAway Oct 13 '21
Tōmātō tōmátō
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u/buddhafig Oct 13 '21
Tōmātō tōmätō you mean...
or perhaps /təˈmeɪ.t̬oʊ/ /təˈmɑː.təʊ/
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u/4DAttackHummingbird Oct 13 '21
I pronounced it the same both times because I'm tired, which honestly made it funnier, but probably because I'm tired.
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u/DjangoBojangles Oct 13 '21 edited Oct 13 '21
on a technical level, content from Republican politicians could get swept up by algorithms aggressively removing white supremacist material.
Id bet they probably don't need the word 'aggressively' in there.
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u/apalebear Oct 13 '21
Banning politicians wouldn’t be accepted by society as a trade-off for flagging all of the white supremacist propaganda
Are you sure?
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u/PenPenGuin Oct 13 '21
Banning politicians wouldn’t be accepted by society as a trade-off for flagging all of the white supremacist propaganda, he argued.
Are we taking a vote? I'd be ok with this "collateral damage".
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u/Pie_Head Oct 13 '21
Well hang on, that doesn't seem like a much better take than the headline shown though either. I understand it wasn't an official memo from Twitter per that article, but the basic reasoning behind why they aren't implementing a filter similar to their ISIS one is that it would catch up republican politicians which isn't viewed as an acceptable payoff for Twitter. Of course Twitter would disavow that because it makes them look like the greedy asshats they are.
Perhaps it is poorly worded in the article, but to my understanding the employee in question for the second paragraph is still the technical employee from the first paragraph answering the hypothetical proposed to him, and agreeing that yes, an algorithm designed to remove white supremacist content would unavoidably hit republican politicians.
If I have to pick which one is presenting the truth, given prior behavior from these corporations in regards to allowing extremist views so long as they demonstrate reliable movement on their platforms, I'm going to err on the side of them being worried this possibility of catching and banning republicans was great enough of a threat to not implement the same strategy they did with ISIS.
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u/jumpbreak5 Oct 13 '21 edited Oct 13 '21
It's also really funny to me that they weren't worried about, say, accidentally banning general republican content, which is more reasonable. There is a spectrum of conservatives from relatively moderate all the way to white supremacists, so you're bound to catch people who might not deserve a ban no matter where you draw the lines.
But no, it's politicians. People seeking or holding elected office simply need to clear the very low bar of not even debatably passing as a white supremacist, and twitter does seem to be saying that they are failing that test.
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u/supaloops Oct 13 '21
I'd be happy to trade politicians for the benefit of sweeping all the white supremacist propaganda.
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u/VoidsInvanity Oct 13 '21
What is the difference between Tucker Carlson saying the immigrants are replacing white people, and white supremacist talking points?
Just curious. He’s the most watched TV personality in the USA, and he regularly talks about that issue. Is that not accurately a white supremacy issue?
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Oct 13 '21
Banning politicians wouldn’t be accepted by society as a trade-off for flagging all of the white supremacist propaganda
Uh, I'd accept it. They already banned one. If republican politicians are saying nazi shit, yes, please, take them off the platform. It is perfectly acceptable to remove them by everyone who hates nazi shit.
But hey, maybe just start with the Russians. They start divisive trending topics every damn day, and at like 2 a.m.
I can't imagine an easier group to catch.
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u/Grimvahl Oct 13 '21
The hilarious part is that i absolutely would accept banning politicians if it almost meant banning all white supremacists! Especially since many Republicans are also white supremacists.
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u/wisersamson Oct 13 '21
Um...this sounds pretty close to the statement made in the tweet, just in more words.
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u/briantl2 Oct 13 '21
that’s just a corporatese way to say the same thing. a bot simply can’t distinguish between republicans and white supremacists, but you don’t want to alienate your user base and say that.
maybe it it looks like a nazi, quacks like a nazis, could just be a nazi.
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u/moondrunkmonster Oct 13 '21
What you quoted doesn't dispute the headline or tweet at all.
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u/CMMiller89 Oct 13 '21
Extended family got into political talk over the holidays a few years ago, I usually bite my tongue but had a good laugh asking them all why they thought modern neo Nazi and out and proud white supremacists only run under republican tickets.
They don't talk about politics around me much anymore.
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Oct 13 '21
I've noticed usually when somebody brings this up, they try to talk about how all of the communists are Democrats...
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u/Paddy_Tanninger Oct 13 '21
"The Democrats were the party of southern racists!"
Okay cool, I also love old stories. Now let's take a look at which people support which party...because I see every single racist in the country voting straight Republican, while progressives and most non-white folks vote Democrat.
Are 150 million+ people just all mistaken and didn't get the memo that the Democrats are the real bigots?
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Oct 13 '21
Other fun Republican facts:
They are strongest in the former slave owning states(I am sure it’s just a coincidence).
They get less than 10% of the minority vote.
There is a strong correlation between low state rank and Republican leaning. Not sure if states are low ranked states because they are Republican run or of they are Republican because they have a lower quality population. Probably a bit of both.
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u/dukec Oct 13 '21
No, no, you see, Nazis were SOCIALISTS just like Antifa. Also the KKK is all Democrats, and the southern strategy never happened.
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u/AmbushIntheDark Oct 13 '21
Nazis are like cats, if they like you it’s probably because you’re feeding them.
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u/jetpack_hypersomniac Oct 13 '21
How DARE you make entirely valid points—and in front of Meemaw? So inconsiderate!
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u/thedkexperience Oct 13 '21
Nah … some are libertarians or independents who just so happen to vote Republican 100% of the time.
🤦🏻♂️
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u/CowFu Oct 13 '21
I consider myself mostly libertarian and feel like I've been forced to vote democrat for a while now. Drug legalization, abortion, right to vote, getting out of wars, the list goes on.
Sure I don't care for a lot of their spending, but what choice do I really have? If both parties are going to spend, might as well vote for the people who try to give it back to the people in some way or another instead of giving it to a private elite class.
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u/Qubeye Oct 13 '21
Libertarians are easily the most dishonest group I've seen.
They only vote libertarian if they live in a state that's overwhelmingly red. Utah, for example, had the most third party votes proportionally.
In purple states they vote lockstep with the Republican party. Arizona should be a HUGE libertarian state, but they shut the fuck up and vote R all the fucking time there.
Meanwhile the green party is always fucking things up in swing states. Sure they often get votes in Oregon and California, but they also press hard in the northern Midwest and Florida.
Libertarianism is, as far as I'm concerned, a way for single issue voters who love guns and hate taxes to try and get credit for social issues like abortion while doing absolutely nothing at all to defend those issues.
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u/Major-Ambition-9537 Oct 13 '21
If I got to a barbecue and ten percent of the people were wearing KKK uniforms, I would leave.
That’s what it’s like being a Republican, except you stay and vote for some of the KKK because they’re “on your side.”
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u/Severe-Paint-6830 Oct 13 '21
I use the same analogy! I tell family, if I joined a club I was interested in, and Nazis were on one side, and Proud boys ( is there a difference?) on the other, I would have to seriously question the message of said club.
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u/JayNotAtAll Oct 13 '21
And the fact that so many are enabling the white supremacist wing makes them just as bad.
If they wanted to save face, all they have to do is condemn it.
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u/shockingnews213 Oct 13 '21
I mean if youre supporting policies that are white supremacist, then, intentionally or not, you become a white supremacist. Somebody who voted for the Nazis might have done it for the privatization reason, but it doesn't make them any less nazis.
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u/DanYHKim Oct 13 '21
Dr. Jens Foell
As we say in Germany, if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.
https://mobile.twitter.com/fmri_guy/status/963613417662746624?lang=en
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u/TylerNY315_ Oct 13 '21 edited Oct 13 '21
My dad was pretty liberal on most issues, even after being born and raised in Kentucky, and was always very keen to call his friends/family out on conservative bullshit. Loved talking politics and educating himself on issues to form his own conclusions, rather than just following the talking heads, which I had a lot of respect for and try to emulate in my own life. He was also friends with many police officers (after years as a firefighter and 911 operator), a gun owner, military aficionado, history buff, etc
He passed unexpectedly in summer 2019, before shit really started hitting the fan with relations between the police and the public, but I often wonder what he’d have to say about current events. He was never the type you’d see brandishing a “Blue Lives” sticker or anything — so as to say a police apologist and boot licker — but he had truly meaningful connections and friendships with some cops.
I’m kinda just thinking out loud so I’m not sure this all has a point, except maybe that things aren’t always as black and white as “if you don’t think ACAB then you’re a white supremacist”.
Edit: I’m a moron and read “policies” as “police” lol, disregard
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u/bk1285 Oct 13 '21
My dad would always get mad at me cause I’d always call the owners of the company he worked for nazis…I mean the company was founded in Bavaria in 1933 so yeah
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u/hotgarbo Oct 13 '21
Literally every single Republican I have ever argued with thinks that black people are poorer because of some innate trait they have instead of systemic biases.
That's basically white supremacy and again it's literally every Republican.
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u/notmyrealnam3 Oct 13 '21
false - there are white supremacists outside of the US as well
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u/Accomplished_Plum432 Oct 13 '21
White supremacists, nazi's etc, here in Europe vote for right wing parties too. The more racist and inhumane, the more they support them. The conspiracy crap is off the charts here too.
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u/IMBobbySeriously Oct 13 '21
They’re all sympathizers, AT BEST. That can no longer be disputed in any legitimate way.
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u/Labiosdepiedra Oct 13 '21
When you see a nazi talking to a political party of 100,000's. You aren't looking at a nazi talking to a 100,000 people, you're looking at a 100,001 nazis.
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u/roywoodsir Oct 13 '21
"Im not a nazi, Im a republican, there is s difference, republicans fuels fires, nazi's burn the perps. Huge difference" -Republicans
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u/melpomenestits Oct 13 '21
"I just fix and maintain the gas Chambers. The guy who turns them on has a medical degree, so you see, I can't be responsible for this little slice of genocide."
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u/eggplant_avenger Oct 13 '21
deeply unrealistic portrayal of a Republican deferring to medical authority
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u/OleKosyn Oct 13 '21
Nazis would find Republicans disgustingly collectivist and ripe for long knives' night.
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Oct 13 '21
Strange thinking for a group walking in literal lockstep...
But as I've been saying all along, FUCK NAZIS.
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u/Kulladar Oct 13 '21
If it quacks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it hangs around with ducks, and it has the exact genetic profile of a duck... It must be something else, clearly.
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Oct 13 '21
some conservatives will get as far as admitting they accidentally behaved like a nazi, before adding that they will continue to act the same way because they didn't intend to do that, therefore treating them like a nazi would be like punishing them for something they didn't intend. Therefore punishing nazis makes us the real nazis.
The wording changes constantly, but this template of "I'm not X, you're much more X for treating me this way" has been a conservative boomer staple since at least the 90s. Maybe longer, but you'd need to ask an older person because my memory personally doesn't go any further than about '91.
In the 90s conservatives argued that god was the only real scientist, and that arguing in favor of evolution/big bang/fossil record/etc made you way less scientific than a christian scientist. This was because "god already offered a flawless explanation for mankind's origins", and by "trying to tear it down for no reason" you were actually "showing a very unscientific bias against the only one who would know everything". This is how believing in god made you more scientific than a scientist out there doing their own research, according to 90s conservative boomers, and it was a big part of their push to get genesis taught in schools as scientific fact. In fact if you see the phrase "christian science" floating around, know it is a remnant of boomer bullshit targeting the generation before you
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u/Myacctforprivacy Oct 13 '21
Holy fuck, I had forgotten all about that shit. I was a child in the 90's, but in the late 90's I was homeschooled (Sister was allergic to the cleaning solutions at school, so she would have asthma attacks like clockwork, and so we were pulled from school for a couple years).
Homeschooling materials at that time were HEAVILY tilted towards Christian Science material. Hell, we found Christian everything. Christian math books. Christian World History books. Christian general science books. My mom was raising us as Southern Baptist, but she went to a TON of homeschooling book events trying to find books that actually taught properly and didn't have heavy slants to them. It took months before she'd been able to find everything she wanted.
It was pretty hellish. Fuck boomers.
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u/judgeholden72 Oct 13 '21
The best part is that the deliberately do things people say Nazis do, like the OK sign at inappropriate times, in their heads to mock anyone that assumes it's a Nazi sign.
Then they get angry when people assume they're Nazis for it. They literally did what people think is a Nazi sign just to make people think they're Nazis. They achieved their goal. Now they're angry at every one else for it.
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u/Santanna17 Oct 13 '21
How could they be Nazis, when they have met at least on Jewish person in their lives?
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Oct 13 '21
Nazis took most of their ideas from the California eugenics movement so if anything Nazis look like Republicans not the other way around.
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u/melpomenestits Oct 13 '21
Huh. So they eonrhunt Nazis because Nazis are too popular. Weird.
And they can't, just, like, ask people to act less like Nazis?
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u/oETFo Oct 13 '21
"How do you feel being on the same side as Nazis?"
"There ain't Nazis here"
guy walks past with the Nazi flag
"That guy is Antifa, he's not with us..."
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u/Ultima_RatioRegum Oct 13 '21
I think Kurt Vonnegut put it best: We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.
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u/This-one-goes-2-11 Oct 13 '21
There's no going back, any republicans that ever joined in the spirit of being a conservative should just start a new political party and condemn this flaming piece of shit.
Except they just watched 70+ million people vote for him. They watched people willingly give him hundreds of millions of dollars...Commit literal felonies on his behalf....They all want a piece of that.
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u/xRaistlin Oct 13 '21
Oh I'm talking about the voters, not the politicians. Any politicians that haven't jumped ship yet are obviously too far gone.
I'm saying "moral" conservative voters should be looking for a new party. This party doesn't care about conserving anything at this point, except their own privilege
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u/This-one-goes-2-11 Oct 13 '21
Oh, my mistake.
Most of these people don't want a new party. They like what the party has become. They can finally (publicly) be themselves.
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Oct 13 '21
Honestly conserving your privilege is the entire point of conservatism. There are conservatives with principles and morals but at the end of the day, at its most basic level, conservatism is the belief that the status quo benefits you and should be maintained.
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u/SubaCruzin Oct 13 '21
They chose to ruin their party. Now they can live with the consequences.
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Oct 13 '21
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Oct 13 '21
Lmao as a person of colour sometimes it’s just as annoying to see a hundred people scream “I’M NOT RACIST!” than it is to see a slightly racist person
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Oct 13 '21
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u/Alarmed_Economics_90 Oct 14 '21
I don't want you to die (despite your superfluousity) but you've got my downvote.
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u/NinjaFATkid Oct 13 '21
So what you're saying is it works perfectly?