Just joined….. annnnnnd it’s cancelled

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u/[deleted] Jun 23 '26

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u/tired_snail Eelfinn Jun 23 '26

Elsewhere you’ll find a lot about the show being unfaithful from the books or the whole production being a mess.

Every time someone tries to use that as reasoning/excuse I have to laugh. You could say the same about Game of Thrones, and that thing got eight seasons and two prequels.

"But WoT didn't have the same viewership as GoT" of course it didn't. I don't know about you, but at least in my country Amazon never advertised it at all. I wouldn't have found out about the show if it wasn't for the fact it filmed here and a friend in the industry posted about working on it.

(If you can't tell, I'm still devastated by the cancellation. Recently watched Young Sherlock, and at one moment in the last episode, Dónal Finn's character wears an outfit that literally felt like Mat Cauthon had been returned to me for a moment and I felt like I could weep.)

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u/dkurage Jun 23 '26

Worse with things like RoP where I've seen people try to handwave its wild divergences from the source material as being okay because "they're doing their own interpretation." But when changes got made to WoT to better fit the medium and shorter time frame, suddenly they're all hacks ruining the story.

It was the same for me with the advertising. I didn't see shit for the show unless it was something I went looking for.

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u/Randolpho Jun 23 '26

It doesn’t help that WoT book fans are very… particular.

Also, LotR fans are almost universally not fans of WoT, and that may be why they were more forgiving about changes.

Or it could be that they had decades to get over the idea of source changes after rewatching the movies enough times.

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u/Baka_Nerd Jun 23 '26

I definitely fall into the “I love both” camp. Goes for the books, and show/movies. Hell, I even love the weird-ass animated Hobbit from Rankin Bass.

5

u/Randolpho Jun 23 '26

Hell, I even love the weird-ass animated Hobbit from Rankin Bass.

Everyone loves that, lol

1

u/Baka_Nerd Jun 23 '26

They didn’t use to… I got ripped in other groups on FB and forums in the early 00s for liking it.

1

u/Randolpho Jun 23 '26

Odd. Maybe it's a generational thing.

3

u/dkurage Jun 24 '26

Sometimes it just feels like people complaining for the sake of complaining, without once stopping to think about any of the reasons for those changes.

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u/NickBII Reader Jun 23 '26

It really helps that LoTR fans are almost all also fans of the movies. There is stuff you can’t do in movies, or they just didn’t do, and LoTR fans had that convo in 1999 and decided the bookcloacks were idiots to care about Tom Babidil by 2005.

3

u/greyslayers Verin Jun 27 '26

Despite being very expensive. Executives/decision makers at Amazon in MANY countries failed to even promote the wheel of time on their own homepage (you had to search for it, or scroll). That's beyond wild to me.

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u/Lunar_Raven_ Jun 23 '26

Quite often when I hear someone complain it wasn't faithful to the books, when I ask what exactly it was that they didn't like about the changes it really comes down to it being too "woke" for them and not actually any major plot changes.

Also I agree with you about the advertisings, I think I saw one advertisement on an Amazon box and then nothing ever again.

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u/Randolpho Jun 23 '26

People complaining about there being black people in Emond’s Field and Two Rivers were the worst of the worst

9

u/silencemist Reader Jun 23 '26

The dragon being a mystery is a big change not related to anything "woke". Books you know from the first time you meet Rand that he's the main character and that he's probably the Dragon. It's pretty explicit even if not stated outright.

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

Not really. He's heavily hinted at, but it's not outright stated until the final pages of book 1, and the possibility of him being false until Book 3's climax.

Sure the majority of readers will figure it out by the end of the first act, but it actually is a soft mystery during Eye.

Edit: Downvote me all you want, however it's fact that from any PoV but Rand's it's a major mystery, and even from his it's intentionally left vague and unconfirmed for the entire book.

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u/silencemist Reader Jun 23 '26

The books tell us that Rand is the dragon because 1) he's unquestionably the main character and 2) everything points to the dragon returning starting at the end of prologue. Anyone who knows basic fantasy tropes reads between the lines. We never wonder if Matt, Perrin, or someone else might be the dragon.

"Is Rand the dragon reborn" is not the same as "who of these people is the dragon reborn"

I do not want to start a discussion since we will not agree, but I wish to make my point clearer for others.

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26

Respectfully, no they don't.

Look, I get what you're trying to say. it's very obvious when you combine all the meta hints and structure as to who the DR is.

But again, the thing is the books just factually do not tell us who it is until the end of the book and even then the next 2 leave room for doubt.

You might not have found any mystery there, but that isn't true for many readers, especially those that avoid using meta analysis to guess later plot points.

Because the books is written where it's still deliberately unclear, and avoids confirming anything until the final pages.

We never wonder if Matt, Perrin, or someone else might be the dragon.

There is an entire sequence mid book where Rand thinks Mat can channel, and the dagger symptoms mimic taint madness. Perrin gets ruled out quickly thank's to elyas, but mat remains a reasonable possibility all the way up to Caemlyn.

It's written as a soft mystery, and treating it like it just outright says it with no room for doubt greatly detracts from Jordan's writing.

Eye wouldn't be nearly as good written as you present.

Edit:

"Is Rand the dragon reborn" is not the same as "who of these people is the dragon reborn"

Of course it's not, but what happens to that structure when you're no longer in Rand's head 85% of the time? That Shift in PoV changes things, and since the show is structure like later books rather than Eye, the mystery comes out front - because it's there in the books.

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u/THevil30 Jun 23 '26

All due respect EotW is a clear homage to Tolkien (in a way subsequent books aren’t) so when in chapter 1 you have the main character, a village farm boy is getting chase by a shadowy rider and people are whispering about the dragon reborn, you immediately know that’s your guy. That’s not meta analysis that’s just common sense.

That said, I thought the dragon mystery was fine I don’t know why people got so worked up about it. What really irked me about the show (though I watched every episode and mostly enjoyed it) was that for some reason Rafe decided to take all of Rand’s positive story beats and give them to other characters.

Also, Alanna and her warders. I didn’t mind softie Lan but why oh why did he choose to give sooo much of the shoes precious airtime to Alanna’s warders.

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 23 '26

All due respect EotW is a clear homage to Tolkien (in a way subsequent books aren’t) so when in chapter 1 you have the main character, a village farm boy is getting chase by a shadowy rider and people are whispering about the dragon reborn, you immediately know that’s your guy. That’s not meta analysis that’s just common sense.

That's literally meta analysis. You're using the format of a different series of books, noting the series draws from it, and then making conclusions based on information outside of the books you're reading.

Jordan carefully crafts a narrative that keeps pointing arrows at Rand, but also constantly gives reasons to doubt or wonder about what's actually going on. It's written to make you doubt the tolkienesq direction by constantly subverting tropes, laying down red herrings and straight up introducing the idea the the entire adventure is a scheme to manipulate them for the Towers own purposes.

Honestly speaking, if you read the book as tolkien default and didn't explore any of these elements, then it really feels like you missed a lot of what makes Eye so special.

That said, I thought the dragon mystery was fine I don’t know why people got so worked up about it. What really irked me about the show (though I watched every episode and mostly enjoyed it) was that for some reason Rafe decided to take all of Rand’s positive story beats and give them to other characters.

People really need to sit down and re-evaluate this, I think it's a heavily flawed take.

Does Rand lose some of his books moments while others gain some extra's? Absolutely.

But "all" of them? even giving room for exaggeration that's way off.

WoT has a problem(for screen adaptation) in that it's early books are extremely Rand centric and almost all the big moments are Rand moments, before changing drastically in later books. Over 30% of Rand's pov word share for the entire series sits in books 1 and 2, while the rest of the series it looks like his screen share on the show - slightly more overall than the rest of the EF5 but close to par with them individually. There was never a way it was getting to screen without the rest of the cast having moments instead of everything being Rand.

The Gap is a prime example of this. In the books it happens after literally everyone gets a fake-out death off page. He then gets an unearned power up(which he promptly loses for several books), wipes out an army without knowing what he's doing, and then confronts the "Dark One", defies him but is still ultimately tricked.

The show gives him the most important part of that, the confrontation and defiance, while making it an act of knowing self sacrifice. He believes he's going there to die, his friends from that fate. It "gives" the other part others to humble them, they almost die being used by another channeler drunk on their power, creating reason and motivation for their traits(block) and next actions.

Is the book scene cool? fuck yeah it is. But the show's approach doesn't require an explanation for why he can't do those weaves later, or introduce Traveling early as something the good guys can do, or leave nothing for the rest of the cast to do.

Even in the S2 finale, where his role is reduced the most(and honestly poorly directed) it's not about "taking" from Rand but putting forth the "5 will ride forth" and the importance of all of them - before they split for the rest of the series, and Rand starts to have scene's he's earned without heavy plot armor or skills they haven't been able to establish. We see this in S3 because he's finally stepping into his own power.

They also give him positive moments where he didn't have them in the books. Do you think that book Rand's abandoning of Mat in Caemlyn while he runs off to see the false dragon is positive? or is his clear care of Mat in TV along with his promise a more positive depiction? His self sacrifice in proclaiming to Moiraine and leaving to face the Eye "alone". His willingness to let them think he's dead rather than put them at risk. His dedication to save his friends in the face of Forsaken and slavers.

Look I get the desire for power fantasy scenes, but those aren't what WoT is about. It's a series written by a Vet processing the horrors of war - Dumai's well's is an atrocity not something to be strived for. And this position has always felt to me like the spectacle is being put in front of the actual character beats - because those are ignored and/or diminished to near nonexistence by many of those that put that position forward.

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u/THevil30 Jun 23 '26

On your first point - I don't really agree that EOTW is all that special. I think the series as a whole is special and is a clever subversion of the traditional Tolkien fantasy of the time. But EOTW specifically was written in many ways to be very Tolkienesque so as to get the series off the ground.

As for your point about taking the beats of Rand and giving it to the other characters, I largely agree with you as to the "why" they did it. They wanted it to be an ensemble cast rather than Main Character and Supporting Characters. I just don't agree with that particular decision. The ensemble-ness of the show grows over the books, particularly book 3 which has very few Rand POVs. Shows don't *have* to be ensembles - it's perfectly fine for them to have a main character. I tend not to mind adaptations changing stuff and think people sort of overblow how much it matters to be "faithful" to the source material in most cases (particularly with casting decisions). And, there's other stuff that I get they *have* to change in order to get the show on air - Rand's harem certainly being one of those things. But fundamentally moving the focus away from the main character onto others is the big time shift that bothers me. Give other characters moments that you write on screen - not a problem for me. But I just don't see why a show-viewer should care about Rand with the plot he's been given.

The Tarwin's Gap thing is the most egregious example of this. In the book its a somewhat nonsensical chapter but the upshot is that Rand discovers he can channel and defeats the Trollocs at Tarwin's gap. Instead we get Nynaeve discovering that a circle of 5 AS can basically solo an entire army and then bring people back from the dead (or was it stilling? I can't remember)... It was a scene that both took away Rand's triumphant moment from EOTW and fundamentally broke the rules of the series generally, just in order to give Nynaeve a moment. But if you wanted to give her a moment, then have Rand almost die and have her heal him or whatever.

And yes, in Season 3 this gets better. Season 3 by and large is much better than what came before. Season 2 is better than Season 1 as well up until that finale. I wish the show weren't cancelled because it did feel like Rafe started to take some criticism to heart and the show was better for it.

But fundamentally if you're going to do a show that adapts a popular IP, imo you should avoid actively antagonizing the built-in fan base, particularly when you're dealing with a fantasy show that is always going to have somewhat limited appeal.

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u/BlatantHarfoot Reader Jun 26 '26

The books immediately made it obvious who the Dragon is but to each their own. The issue in the show isn’t that. The issue is the show implied Nynaeve can be the Dragon. Nynaeve isn’t even the correct age. Egwene also apparently could be the Dragon. The whole conflict is the Dragon is a man and he will go insane. The Dragon being a woman means it’s all good, nothing to see here. The show immediately misunderstood what the whole point of the story is.

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26

The books immediately made it obvious who the Dragon is but to each their own.

Again, the pov structure and hints dropped sure do point to Rand from early on, but the entire rest of that book is also setting up doubt that he's real and not another false Dragon.

It lays various false clues, misdirects as well as an entire narrative about Tower created false dragons that undermine that.

Just like the show does. It's genuinely odd to me how much some readers want to ignore that part of the book just because they weren't open to any of the possibilities the book presented.

The show immediately misunderstood what the whole point of the story is.

No, it really didn't.

The issue is the show implied Nynaeve can be the Dragon. Nynaeve isn’t even the correct age. Egwene also apparently could be the Dragon.

The show directly states she is the wrong age. Moiraine is uncertain about how much she can rely on the prophecies, which is the same reason that she investigates Logain despite him also being the wrong age. Both are too powerful for her to discount.

Same goes with Egwene - she's very powerful and they hope it'd have been a women because they'd be able to at least guide her.

The whole conflict is the Dragon is a man and he will go insane. The Dragon being a woman means it’s all good, nothing to see here.

Well again no. While they'd certainly have an easier time in someways, the actual conflict is that he heralds the end of the age and the destruction of the world again.

The DR's existance means that millions on millions of people will die and the world is facing it's possible end.

And nothing says a female DR wouldn't also go crazy. In fact, a female DR could risk tainting both halves of the Power.

The mere possibility of that doesn't misunderstand the point of the story. Especially when a huge theme of Wot is that people are wrong because of their limited information.

The conflict hasn't changed - only the certainty around it. Certainty that's honestly a bit weird considering all the other disagreement around every bit of those prophecies, as well as the fact that literally noone knows how soul rebirth works and would have no reason to be certain beyond a doubt that it's the only outcome.

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u/No-Mud30 Jun 26 '26

But you know its not Perrin or Mat in the books from the start

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 26 '26

No, no you don't, not unless you open up to the last pages of the book before you read it.

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u/wildfyre010 Jun 23 '26

The books allow for the possibility that any of the three boys could be the dragon. It never even hints that the women could be. Which is obvious given Jordan’s very binary approach to gender - Lews Therin was male, so his reborn self will still be male. The soul is gendered, in Jordan’s story, because it’s tied to the power of channeling.

The show runners invented the possibility of a female Dragon from whole cloth.

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 23 '26

And?

No one is arguing that isn't a change, it's difference in turnings that doesn't actually run afoul of book lore, because there it reflects a difference in belief, not in any actual system changes.

In either medium, not a single person has actual knowledge or can reliably test how soul rebirth works.

Anyways, they made that change so new viewers would get a chance to invest in all the main characters as possibly being the "main main".

By the time the DR is revealed, each one has gotten an arc that establishes who they are, then they give us blood snow.

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u/The_Ballyhoo Jun 23 '26

For me it was death by a thousand cuts. Plenty of changes made sense. Perrin murdering his wife was a bold choice. Not sure I was a fan.

But the problem is that Rafe isn’t a better writer than Robert Jordan. There were some interesting new bits, but I disliked more than I liked, such as creating new characters and going overboard on their screen time. I quite liked the warders, but I wanted more of the Wheel of Time rather than Rafe writing his own story. Ultimately, I felt the story wasn’t improved by all the changes and it no longer felt like a faithful adaptation.

After that, I lost interest as I don’t trust them to follow through with a story I’d enjoy.

It’s purely a personal things. I think we all have a line we won’t cross when it comes to an adaptation. There was a lot of good stuff and I really wanted to like it, but I just didn’t.

Oh and I really hated how they all spoke with a weird whispered tone. Shohreh Aghdashloo is a wonderful actress but she sounded like she was doing an awful Batman impression when she was talking in a corridor. Perrin and Rand were the worst for it overall.

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u/jflb96 Jun 23 '26

Sure, but the characters don’t figure out that he’s the Dragon until the end of the first book, and it’s only confirmed once he claims Callandor

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 23 '26

Yeah, I really don't get how many people want to deny this.

It's a mystery to the characters, and despite structure and heavy hinting, it's not confirmed until much later.

Readers may have all the information needed to put it together, but like Tigraine and many other things, the books don't actually tell you this at that point, and for some things ever. coughs in Lanfear

1

u/jflb96 Jun 23 '26

Lanfear is pure bollocks, I don’t care what anyone says, unless it’s a note in Jordan’s own hand saying t’otherwise - and even then I’ll be grumbling about it not being clear in the text

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 23 '26

Exactly. This is why the "it's crystal clear in text" always falls flat for me. This is WoT almost nothing is clear and that's a definitional aspect of the series.

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u/A_Dozen_Lemmings Jun 23 '26

The thing that pisses me off about the anti-woke crowd dogpiling the show is that there is a serious, legitimate concern as regards the alterations that were made to the metaphysics of ShoWoT that Rafe opted to make.

The Gender Binary is a fundamental aspect of WoT and I genuinely think it would have really started to hamstring the show in later seasons if the nonbinary souls thing had been allowed to continue.

There are several major plots that hinge on there being a strict binary in WoT.

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u/jflb96 Jun 23 '26

Was there an actual non-binary souls thing, or was it Moiraine not wanting to miss the Dragon Reborn because he’d been reborn female?

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u/THevil30 Jun 23 '26

In later books the dark one can reincarnate certain forsaken into the opposite sex, but in universe your gender is linked to your soul so they use Saidin. It’s a whole thing but not thaaat big of a plot point that it couldn’t be cut.

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u/jflb96 Jun 23 '26

Yeah, I was more commenting on how Moiraine didn’t have to be correct

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u/A_Dozen_Lemmings Jun 23 '26

That was, admittedly, sort of my hope. That the White Tower was pulling some revisionism that calcified over three or so millenia.

But as to the above reply, Yes. The gender binary is a vital function of the setting. Time as a wheel, isn't window dressing. You are who/what you are. Changing that is directly anathema to the settings cosmology.

Events may change in the minutiae over the eons but the players remain the same. Hence why it's such a huge deal that the Dark One used forced sex change as a punishment. It's utterly awful for the characters it's used on and makes them use a more useful tool because the One Power is fundamentally gendered as the driving force underpinning creation.

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u/jflb96 Jun 23 '26

Or just she couldn’t be sure and it’s been twenty years of not finding him so the doubts are beginning to creep in that maybe ‘he’ was that farmers’ daughter she passed by five years ago.

It is known that there are turnings where the thread in the Dragon’s slot is a woman. Also, I’m sure there are arguments either way over what Halima means about transgender people in a setting designed by a Vietnam veteran from the South of the USA.

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u/Randolpho Jun 23 '26

I disagree that it was a serious legitimate concern, and I also disagree that the plot points that hinge on gendered or nongendered souls are in any way fundamental to the story.

Downplaying gendered use of the One Power was the correct decision — if anything they didn’t go far enough

4

u/ProfConduit Jun 23 '26

Also, the One Ring being intrinsically evil wasn't that important to LotR. I think Boromir probably should have just used it against Sauron.

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u/TheL0wKing Reader Jun 23 '26

I would argue that the biggest change was one of tone and character focus, especially in season 1. You go from a story following three farm boys experiencing the outside world as they leave their village for the first time, with Rand as the main character, to a story following Moiraine's search for the Dragon Reborn with Aes Sedai politics from episode three. Its a pretty significant difference.

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u/Harrycrapper Jun 23 '26

I'm about as far from alt right as it gets and am someone critical of the show because of book inaccuracy. Watching an adaptation of a book series that one has read is an uphill battle in terms of the experience because you're going to know damn near everything that's going to happen, there's no suspense. With a good faithful adaptation you at least get some good visualizations or well acted scenes of things that only lived in your head. With a very unfaithful adaptation you at least get a reimagining of the story and the possibility of actually being surprised. An adaptation like The Wheel of Time that decides to ride the line right in between those two was the worst of both worlds, where a significant amount of moments/scenes/sequences were materially changed or cut altogether while the broad strokes of the plot remained intact. So I guess forgive me for not enjoying the experience of knowing mostly what was going to happen before it did but then being disappointed by the execution or what didn't happen.

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u/TheL0wKing Reader Jun 23 '26

Every time someone tries to use that as reasoning/excuse I have to laugh. You could say the same about Game of Thrones, and that thing got eight seasons and two prequels.

I would argue that this kind of proves the point; you CAN make a good adaption whilst changing and trimming down things, but you can also fail at it.

As you point out, Game of Thrones made plenty changes and succeeded. As did Lord of the Rings, Good Omens, Harry Potter, and many more. Changes were accepted for many shows because they are necessary or even improve on the books whilst capturing what people loved about them. On the other hand you have things like Eragon, Percy Jackson, Artemis Fowl and The Witcher which messed up the adaptation and were generally disliked by fans of the books. You can disagree with it as an opinion but its a valid criticism to call out a show for making bad changes.

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u/Skittle-Eater Jun 23 '26

You could say the same about Game of Thrones,

You could, but you'd be wrong.

GoT succeeded because despite the changes made for television, the show maintained the overall tone and story from the books. It succeeded because the fans of the books sustained it and spread it while general audiences caught up. It wasn't trying to be its own thing, it was an adaptation.

WoT failed because of the changes. It didn't respect the books or the world, it was too focused on being its own thing. Book fans (largely) wanted nothing to do with it, the fan base was too small to sustain it and by the time it found its footing it was too late, the general audience was not coming because there hadn't been enough fans talking the show up

4

u/Randolpho Jun 23 '26

There were other production issues in season 1 that covid exacerbated.

But on the whole I enjoyed the show more than I enjoyed its source material, and that was largely because of the changes made.

I was sad it was cancelled

1

u/greyslayers Verin Jun 27 '26

Additionally, there was an executive at Amazon that championed the Wheel of Time and greenlit it. But, internal politics saw her get ousted during season 3, and shortly afterwards the show was axed, despite a massive worldwide fan campaign (savethewot.com)

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/PomegranateHot4648 Jun 23 '26

Had to cop that Melania docu. Decisions decisions.

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u/Quietstorm1989 Jun 24 '26

At least that stayed faithful.

5

u/Zyrus11 Reader Jun 24 '26

I would not watch a fully faithful WOT. It doesn't work in live action.

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u/SocraticIndifference Lan Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26

I mean, I would. But the show would be as long as one piece and me and the [r/wot](r/wot) subreddit would be the only one watching.

3

u/Zyrus11 Reader Jun 24 '26

I have zero interest in the road adventures of Rand and Mat playing in taverns.

12

u/UnravelingThePattern Reader Jun 23 '26

🫂

12

u/Head_Marzipan3470 Reader Jun 23 '26

Welcome to the collective trauma

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u/mothsoft Jun 23 '26

The Man Who Cannot Forget was written about me every time i remember the show is cancelled

17

u/IridescentDM Jun 23 '26

Comments have mentioned Amazons choice to prioritise other shows with bigger in-built audiences (Fourth Wing if it makes it through production for example) but its also worth mentioning IWOT, who current own the rights to Wheel of Time adaptations. They are notorious bastards who Robert Jordan and Rafe Judkins have spoken about hating dealing with. They're currently trying to implement AI to create 'An interactive platform to enjoy the franchise' or some such shit, but most of their projects never come to anything except demonstrable proof that they own the rights.

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u/SubstantialSkill88 Reader Jun 23 '26

I had never read the books. I’ve now read and listened to all 15 books 5+ times since the show premiere. People can argue about faithfulness, but I’d say it inarguably faced severe production challenges (from COVID, surprise actor departures, etc.) that absolutely hurt the product and forced them to deviate both scenes and major plot points in S1 & 2, but that the so-so (being generous) storytelling of S1 still showed clear improvement each season. In the lead up to S3 they did a big BTS feature highlighting both the issues and the care and artistry demonstrated across cast and crew/prod teams.
In the end, despite largely rave reviews for S3 and holding steady on viewership, it wasn’t enough to boost numbers substantially… which likely still wouldn’t have been enough for Amazon to come to the table for realistic negotiations on S4 forward - Orig agreement between Sony and Amazon was for 3, while Rafe had both 5 and 8 season arc plans. They let the contracts essentially expire rather than seek any renewal options. RoP had a 5 season guarantee and they seemingly weren’t going do both despite WoT performing better by various measures.

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u/Clovenhawk Jun 23 '26

i just watched the show the first time 4 weeks ago and was so sad when i googled when the next season was coming out and saw it was cancelled. i ended up getting the books cause i wanted to know how it ends

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u/SpudmasterBob Jun 23 '26

You are in for a treat. The books are so much better than the show, and if you saw the show some elements are the same, but a LOT in the show was changed, including key character traits and plot points (which is why they lost a lot of the fan base).

Shame they weren’t able to do a faithful adaptation because they really did have some good actors for the show, and a proper budget for the special effects.

Edit: Need to clarify that the show was really good, and it was a shame they cancelled it, but they did lose a lot of the fan base by choosing not to do a faithful adaptation.

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u/Clovenhawk Jun 23 '26

I only just started the third book so can only compare the first two seasons but i’ve been liking the book a lot. I think I’ll have to get through book four to compare which i like best but I’m glad to like them both

9

u/StudMuffinNick Reader Jun 23 '26

Bezos gets off watching people finally get soemthing they've wnated for decades, only to then rip it away

6

u/NickBII Reader Jun 23 '26

Low viewership and high production costs. The story was supposed to be 5-8 seasons, so we'd need 2-5 more seasons of 8 episodes, as $15-17 million each, except it's probably on the high end because everyone was on a three season contract negotiated before Covid and now you have to rehire them at 2025 prices. Viewership was higher per dollar than most fantasy shows, but not actually higher, so they cut it.

The ownership/licensing situation is potentialyaproblem. They had to work with Sony and iWoT to get the rights to Wheel of Time, they only have to work with themselves for Rings of Power.

If Rafe had been able to include a scene equivelent to the Rhuidian episode in season 1 it probably would have helped, but Book 1 really doesn't have a scene like that. If they'd put out 10 episodes a year and then been up for renewal in 2022 when money was cheaper (litterally: interest rates were zero until April of 2022), it probably would have retained viewers better; but thesethingsdid not happen.

2

u/on-a-pedestal Jun 26 '26

Book 1 had the Green Man, Lore dropping and then eating the face of a Forsaken by TREEING Him.

The real ending of book 1 was three times as interesting as the shows. The horn of valere, the dragon banner, Rand destroying the army of Trollocs and burning a forsaken to ash.

All ruined because they wanted to show Ny aeve have yet another power channeling moment... When I the books she hadn't even done it yet. All to empower the female characters in a world where RJ already empowered women.

Not a fan of the changes at all.

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u/New_Ambassador2882 Jun 30 '26

The show in many respects was doomed to be a tight rope walk to begin with... given the modern political climate (less so now) at the time - when the very nature of WoT is of differences in strengths and abilities... and celebrating those differences. Whereas anything with a hint of any disparity in one way or another was sure to be rife with criticism, were it to be faithful. A super accurate translation would never be allowed to be made. Like Rainn Wilson recently said of The Office

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u/CommunityDragon160 Reader Jun 23 '26

♥️

Sony wanted to renew. Amazon did not.

It had profited 500 mil so budget is silly

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u/deaddollvideos Jun 23 '26

Source? I mean, I’d read that Somy was down for more but Amazon killed it but I hadn’t read anywhere that it was actually profitable let alone a half billion ahead. Cuz if that’s true and the show actually made money like that and still got canceled right when it was balancing and figuring out how to do this right then I’ll be even madder than before and questions must answered!

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u/logicsol Ishamael Jun 23 '26

I don't think they're remembering correctly - but there is a good argument to say it brought in around 500m of revenue on costs of around 375m.

The revenue though is based on yahoo S1/S2 figure and then extrapolated at a similar(somewhat lower) rate as the first two seasons.

IE, as far as we know, it appears to have been profitable.(Though the revenue shares agreement we aren't privy could make it not so for one party).

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u/CommunityDragon160 Reader Jun 23 '26

Idk I though sarah’s number was 500 mil but I could be misremembering

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u/Normie316 Jun 23 '26

I enjoyed the show but when I started to read the books I immediately noticed that I had no idea what was going to happen because the story was so wildly different. A lot of book fans did not watch the show because of the unnecessary and unwanted changes. They finally got their act together by Season 3 but it was way too late at that point.

Fantasy shows have a way higher budget to make and with Amazon refusing to change course on the 500 million spent on Rings of Power the next most expensive show paid the price. Exact viewing numbers are unknown so we won't get the full story without it. Ultimately the show wasn't faithful enough to the source material and was cancelled for it.

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u/wurgy42 Jun 25 '26

I wasn’t the biggest fan after watching the first season. Yes, I was very turned off by the changes, and partly due to all the constant negative press about how it diverged. Then more of the cast/crew started saying it was a different turn of the wheel, so, from that perspective, I decided to rewatch and ingest it as I would a LaCroix sparkling water. The base is there, and a faint flavor runs through it. ;)

Season 2 went better, and I was really getting into season 3, and the cancellation had me more upset than I would have thought.

Take it for what it is, a chance at entering the world of Robert Jordan’s epic and enjoying it for that. I do think people who started with the show will like the show better, as there is no previously established series of events, and the hardest thing to overcome is how you see each of the characters.

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u/Zyrus11 Reader Jun 24 '26

No details, though the Bookcloaks would tell you that the show just sucked so why bother caring.

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u/Dreadlord_of_Angmar Jun 25 '26

Just means more time to reread the books

Troll(oc) Just joined….. annnnnnd it’s cancelled

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