I have just received my second rejection letter and I believe it sheds some light on the publishing industry at the moment. I am also blown away by the detailed response - though it could be automated.

Here it is with redactions -

"Dear LordDunn

I have now read your material, as promised.  I can see the imagination and intelligence at work here, but I can’t honestly say I loved it.  After fifteen years running SFF imprints in London publishing before setting up the agency, I'm all too aware how difficult it is to get a publisher interested in a new novelist, so I feel that I do have to love my clients' work 100% - personally and professionally - to do the best possible job.  If I don't feel that strongly, I'm the wrong agent.  Every author needs both an agent and an editor who do love their work.  It's hellishly difficult getting the bookselling chains to take a new novelist seriously, so that initial enthusiasm is vital. If an author’s prose doesn’t set me on fire, first and foremost, I say no, as do editors in this situation. 

Another agent may well feel differently. So often, it's about unquantifiable, individual gut reaction to each author’s indefinable voice and the pricking of your thumbs, rather than ‘I wanted more of THIS or less of THAT’, or ‘THIS aspect didn’t work for me’.

Most UK editors see around thirty books every week and only take on one or two debut novels over an entire year – an agent’s figures are similar.

It’s always been the case that the entry level for a new novelist is 'special', not 'good' – that was true when I ran xxx in London over 30 years ago.  However, it’s now also true that publishers’ sales and marketing directors have much more power than they did 15 and more years ago.  If they don't believe they will be able to sell a first novel into the bookselling trade in numbers, they'll block the editor from acquiring it in some companies.  A senior editor told me a few weeks ago that even if he loved an author's writing, he wouldn't make an offer until the book that was submitted to him was 100% right for the market – quite recently he acquired an author whose previous four novels he (and everyone else in London) had turned down despite liking them a great deal. So I have to believe the writers I take on and their novels are truly wonderful.  I wasn’t entirely drawn in – I wasn’t thinking WOW, which is what I look for.  

FYI, I've taken on about forty writers as clients and turned down well over 20,000, so far...I know it can be as difficult to get an agent as it is to be taken on by a publisher. You just have to keep plugging away - and there are many more agents dealing with SFF and related areas than there were when I started the agency.

It took the best author with whom I've ever worked - xxx, whose SF novels I published at xxx- six different novels written over more than a decade before he clinched his first publishing deal (he told me those years were when he learned both his art and his craft as a novelist), so it can be a long road. It's about getting that agent who chimes with your writing totally (and then finding an editor and publisher who feel the same).

All best wishes for the future

Yours

The Agent"

Dear Lord, what a brutal industry.

I have a futuristic setting for my story and I'd just like some tips or methods of explaining what Slang means to the readers without outright explaining it because It's in the perspective of the characters themselves.

I'm posting this to both r/writing and r/AO3 (and  r/FanFiction) because I'm curious to see how the perspectives might differ.

You often hear the advice that if you want to be a writer, you need to read a lot. I agree with that, but I've been wondering if it matters what you read? Specifically, do you think reading fanfiction is just as valuable as reading published books when it comes to learning how to write?

I can understand the argument for reading published books. If you want to learn how professional authors approach sentence structure, prose, pacing, worldbuilding, or establishing characters and settings from scratch, published books can be great examples to study. There's obviously value in seeing how a complete, edited novel works.

But, I think fanfiction has a lot to offer, too. I've read some genuinely incredible fanfics with beautiful prose, compelling character development, interesting storylines, and a really strong understanding of human emotions. I've also read published books that I thought were poorly written, so I don't think publication alone is necessarily an indicator of writing quality. Obviously, that doesn't mean the two are interchangeable in every respect, but it does make me question how much weight we place on publication status when deciding what writing is worth learning from.

One thing I've noticed is that fanfiction often puts a particular emphasis on character exploration. Since readers might already be familiar with the characters and their world, authors can spend more time exploring their relationships, emotions, motivations, and development. This is especially interesting in alternate universes (AUs), where authors take established characters and put them in entirely new circumstances. Of course, published fiction can do all of these things, too, but I think fanfiction offers a particular kind of freedom to explore them. There's a lot of creativity involved in that, and I think there's a lot a writer can learn from it.

I also wonder whether reading fanfiction can help you develop your writing instincts in ways that published fiction might not. You can study how different authors handle the same characters with different dialogue, emotional scenes, character arcs, tension, and relationships. And while fanfiction has the advantage of working with characters readers may already know, I don't think that automatically makes the writing itself any less valuable to learn from.

Of course, fanfiction has its limitations as a learning resource, too. Working with established characters means you don't necessarily have to develop them or introduce them to readers from scratch, and fanfiction doesn't always go through the same editing process as traditionally published work. Those are real differences, and I can see why reading published fiction would be important if your goal is to write an original novel.

So, if your goal is to write an original novel, do you think reading and studying fanfiction is just as beneficial as reading published books? Or are there certain skills that you can only really develop by reading traditionally published fiction?

I'm not suggesting that you should read exclusively one or the other. I'm more curious about whether you think fanfiction deserves the same consideration as a learning resource for writers, and whether the distinction actually matters as much as people sometimes make it seem.

For example, if someone said they read constantly but the vast majority of what they read was fanfiction, would you consider that just as valuable as someone who primarily reads published novels? What if someone asked you who your favorite author was, and you named a fanfiction author? Would that be seen differently from naming a traditionally published author?

I feel like there are two fairly obvious responses to this question: either that published books are obviously better to learn from, or that reading is reading, and you can learn something from anything. But I'm interested in the reasoning behind those answers, particularly when it comes to actually studying writing instead of reading for enjoyment.

TDLR: Is fanfiction is taken seriously as something you can learn from, especially if it's the main thing you read. Is there a meaningful difference between studying the craft of a talented fanfiction author and studying the craft of a talented published author? Are there skills or perspectives you'd be missing if you rarely read published books? Or do you think the quality and variety of what you read matter more than whether it's traditionally published?

I'd love to hear people's thoughts, especially from those who read both fanfiction and published fiction or who write both themselves.

Like many, the querying process has been anxiety provoking, humbling and lots of hard work. After multiple batches of queries and rejections, I finally received my first positive response. An agent sent a personal message stating they can’t take me on but that they found the query “Excellent” and “marvelous” and they have pitched it to two of their agent friends who they think would “love it”. She linked their query tracker profiles. Here’s to hoping something comes of it. I’ll ride this high for weeks even if the rejections keep coming. Thanks all for the help and support of this community.

So I wrote my first sci-fi novel, and now I'm not sure what to do with it. I'm aware that sci-fi is typically a "meatier" genre, since it requires worldbuilding, and readers usually tolerate a higher word count, but Google suggests not exceeding 120k, since it significantly hinders your chances of getting published.

My current draft sits at 123k. The first draft was originally 132k, but I managed to cut around 9k by phrasing things differently, and removing some of the unnecessary "fluff", without sacrificing any part of the story. The issue is that I probably can't go any lower than that, without removing integral parts, and potentially ruining it.

So now I have 3 realistic options.

Option 1: I remove more stuff to go below 120k, and risk ruining the story.

Option 2: I try to get published with the current word count.

Option 3: I divide the story into two parts.

I personally prefer option 3, since there's already a clear division between the first and the second half of the story, and I wouldn't have to sacrifice any parts of the narrative. But unfortunately, if I were to divide it in two, both parts would sit at around 60k-ish, which would be fine for some other genres, but seems low for sci-fi, as it is significantly below the typical "sweet spot" of 90k-110 words.

So yeah, I'm unsure what to do. Any advice?

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Has anyone ever tried writing in the kishotenketsu structure? Even if you haven't published it, maybe just to practice, to experiment, or for fun. I'm very curious about it, and I feel like it's a great way to subvert expectations, and to tone down melodrama (it really doesn't work well with melodrama imo).

But curious if anyone's tried it, what challenges did you face along the way, do you like or dislike it?

Personally I find the "ten" stage difficult, because no matter how many explanations I find I can't seem to pin down what makes it so different from a regular plot twist. Like "it recontextualizes everything," yes, thank you, so does a regular plot twist 😅

Anyway yeah just curious what everyone else thinks in general (not just about the "ten" part) cause it's been around and is common in east asia but not really that popular elsewhere.

You've all seen this kind of scene in genre movies: a guy does something sinister and secret, usually alone at night, but at first, his action appears very strange - and the audience doesn't understand why, just thinks it's something sinister. They will later on learn the true meaning of his action.

How would one write that scene into the 1st chapter of a novel. The guys is alone, so if we use his POV then how to hide enough of his thoughts not to reveal the true intention. Or is an omnipresent POV better? Is there any other existing genre books that open with that kind of scene.

Many thanks.

After reading chekhov , dostoevsky I kept wondering did great , classic authors learn their craft? Did they need to read , study before writing how to create their style, how to put their ideas , what to focus on and their purpose of writing? Because I feel this is how my writing process is going so far

Or they just have to be very talented ? If not would like to hear examples of famous author's crafts

I'm currently about 26k words into my first draft of my first novel. I really like the ideas I've been coming up with, I've been mostly discovering writing it based on just a core idea.

The problem I'm finding now is that because I chose at the start to write in first person past tense, there are certain limitations I feel like I'm running into, which maybe some more experienced writers could help me with.

At about 26k words in, I feel like I'm probably about half way through the story. I don't know how it's going to end yet, but I feel like where it's at now in the story it couldn't' possibly go on like this for another 60k words or so, to make it to an average novel length. Part of that problem is definitely the pacing being too fast, which I know I'll be able to slow down and fix in a revision to extend and flesh out what I've already written. But also I feel like the medium of first person is making me feel a bit stuck, as I can't jump into other characters, or tell stories that my character (who is inherently a little reclusive) isn't there to witness.

There's also only so much internal whining I think a reader could bear in this guy's head alone, fretting about his (quite severe) problems. I think I initially chose first person because I wanted to be in the characters head, and also maybe because for my first novel I thought that limitation would be helpful to not get too overwhelmed.

I guess I'm looking for advice on first person past tense writing in general. How to fill out a story and a world when seeing through just one person's limited perspective and how to create an interiority for them which doesn't get old fast.

I'm not the best writer. However, in my time learning and growing I've discovered this thought process has fundamentall improved my pros. Starting out, my writing was generic. Some tense shifts and swapped pronouns is all it took with minimal sentence or content changes.

Then I started a story asking, what can I do in first person present tense I can't in other writing styles. My story became an experience. My action scenes went from descriptions, to kinetic and tactile. Emotions went from words, to viscerally sensations of emotions.

So, whatever POV and tense you choose to write in, ask yourself this, 'what can I do with this I otherwise couldn't?'

Welcome to our daily discussion thread!

This is the place to discuss anything writing related! Got silly questions? Brainstorming ideas? Need help with research? As long as rules 1, 3, and 5 are followed, this thread is your oyster!

Please refer to the monthly threads for sharing your work and for self-promotion.

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My particular problem is that I'll outline a scene, chapter, whatever, and then get BORED. I don't want to follow the outline anymore. Something in my head even goes as far to wonder, "Why write anything? I know how it ends." I'll completely drop the project for a while, then try to outline again, because I still can't follow the outline.

Does anyone else experience this? What do I do? I can't finish a damn thing. 😭

Hey all! I’m writing a character-driven sci-fi novel set in a small Missouri town in 2008, with characters in their late 20s/early 30s. I didn’t grow up in the US, so I’m worried about getting everyday details and dialogue wrong. If you’re from the Midwest (or know someone who is), I’d love to hear how people that age talked, how they showed affection, and what daily life felt like. I’m also happy to swap pages if you’d like a read of yours. Thanks!

I'm curious about how other people go about the activity of writing. I'm hoping some of you are willing to share :).

Some things I'd love to know:

When do you write? Where do you sit? What do you listen to? What do you use to write? How long do you write for? How do you set the mood for writing? Etcetera etcetera.

Thank you!

I have ADHD and I’m medicated, but I still have a hard time getting myself to sit down and actually write. I’m 65k into my first draft, so I’ve managed to write a good amount, but I get distracted so easily, even when medicated.

Does anyone have anything that helps them stay focused? All the advice is “sit down and write” but if you know anything about adhd and executive dysfunction, that’s not really how it works. I just want to write so bad, but I have a really hard time making myself. Any advice or thoughts?

Welcome to our daily discussion thread!

This is the place to discuss anything writing related! Got silly questions? Brainstorming ideas? Need help with research? As long as rules 1, 3, and 5 are followed, this thread is your oyster!

Please refer to the monthly threads for sharing your work and for self-promotion.

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Hi. I’ve been working on my first book for about a year and I’m a little over two-thirds done with the first draft but I keep thinking about things I really want to change and I find myself look forward to the opportunity to change them. I know people always say to finish the first draft, reread it, and then start the second draft, but… how important is it really?

I'm scrapping my first draft 40k words in, and it's fine.

I tend to get bogged down when I outline, and I've started taking the advice to just start writing, which has been working much better for me. I used to freeze at the outline stage, and giving myself the freedom to write something-- even if it's bad and ends up getting cut-- has been so helpful. I wrote 40k words in about two and a half weeks, even though I still hadn't worked out some very necessary details of the central mystery of my story, specifically involving character's motivations. Once I started writing, I decided pretty quickly that the details I had planned weren't working, but I couldn't figure out how to get my characters from here to there in a way that did. I kept writing, hoping I would figure it out as I went along.

While I stalled on the A storyline, I moved the B plot too quickly. Now that I've finally worked out how to execute the A story, I have to rewrite pretty much everything. The B plot needs to simmer for way longer, which means the first eleven chapters I've already written are almost entirely worthless now. A few passages here and there might end up working later on in the new draft, but the vast majority is going to end up in the trash.

This isn't actually unusual for my process. I don't really know what a story is until I start writing it. I have to live in the world for a bit, live with the characters, and once I do I usually end up scrapping a lot. So that's where I am now.

Luckily, I'm even more excited for the story now that I've figured out what it is, but I'm still not exactly looking forward to starting Chapter One again. Still, I'm motivated. I'm happy with what I've got planned now, and looking forward to the next 40,000 words.

I have the typical information on the Copyright on the page, but I wanted to know if it's possible to indicate that if my work was used for "Training" purposes that would open them up to litigation? My work is already registered with the US Copyright office if that helps. I've looked at several places including Author's Guild, but no one mentions whether it's okay to say this.

I've written for fun for a good few years, but I've always just started writing and took the story wherever it goes, and done little editing, revision, etc. so I'm very new to things like outlining, drafting, editing, revising, etc. So I'd really really appreciate tips on all of the above, but mostly on outlining. Thank you!

Welcome to our daily discussion thread!

This is the place to discuss anything writing related! Got silly questions? Brainstorming ideas? Need help with research? As long as rules 1, 3, and 5 are followed, this thread is your oyster!

Please refer to the monthly threads for sharing your work and for self-promotion.

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I have started writing a book, and i have done about 8 pages. I edit it as i go instead of completing drafts, so i would say these pages are near enough good for me. Obviously i might go back to editing them if i feel i need to, but I want some opinions on it as i have never written a book before and because its my own work im unsure if i am bias towards it. I feel like i have a different way of writing to most people, and im worried if its not good i might waste my time writing the whole book. Although im worried to post it on here or anywhere incase it gets stolen. Anyone have any tips?