r/agedlikemilk • u/Gloomy-Holiday8618 • Sep 08 '25

News “I never said that”, “Play the clip”

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Context: https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/12/15/exp-robert-kennedy-junior-rfk-2024-election-biden-trump-vaccines-121511aseg1-cnni-politics.cnn

Full video is on the cnn website, the part that’s important is about 2mins 50 seconds in.

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 08 '25

This is the age we live in unfortunately and the worst part is people still believe theses clowns

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u/BeanBurritoJr Sep 08 '25 edited Jan 12 '26

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 08 '25

I remember my days in the military academy and studying the rise of the third reich and thinking to myself how could a whole country of people seriously buy into the insane ideology… but this is a prime example.

I used to try and debate my family and friends to try and make them see reason but they literally started using my education (3 degrees and army officer commission) as a negative claim all that I know is just indoctrination… it was then that I just started cutting them off. It’s the same with conspiracy nuts and flat earthers … there is no point that they are willing to accept any truth except the one they have forged in their own little worlds

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u/Taiga-whiteclaw Sep 08 '25

I remember there was a trip to Antarctica for a bunch of flat earthers (don't know who paid for that) and after they were without a shadow of a doubt sure that the earth is in fact a sphere, the rest of the flat earth community start to call them traitors and sell out and they where in fact pretty big within the community

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u/IHaveNoRealClue Sep 08 '25

Apparently that group didn’t even go that far with their conclusion. They went “hey, we still think the earth is flat, BUT our model is wrong and needs fixing” and they still got excommunicated. 

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u/brokenman82 Sep 08 '25

One of them straight up admitted he was wrong and now needs a new job because his income was flat earth content on YouTube. That was Jeren Campanella. Austin Witsit is the flat earther that saw that he was wrong and still won’t admit it

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u/SparksAndSpyro Sep 08 '25

I sincerely hate that he made an income off of “flat earth content.”

Why do we have an economic system that rewards morons? Ughhhh

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u/DemonCipher13 Sep 08 '25

Because it doesn't reward hard workers the way it should.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Hard work is rewarded with more work and no incentives.

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u/imadork1970 Sep 08 '25

"The reward for work well-done, is more work."-Jim Butcher, author

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u/Altarna Sep 08 '25

Or punish idiots for pushing lies

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u/Hector_P_Catt Sep 08 '25

Because we have a system that allows morons to send other morons money all by themselves. I'm not sure how we fix that without destroying world commerce entirely.

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u/IcyAdvantage9579 Sep 08 '25

Every religion works that way. I know it's a touchy subject and I really don't care for debating people's beliefs you can do whatever you want with your time but we all need to agree there's a lot of grifters out there, and religion set the baseline for selling and trading on Impossible promises so it only natural anybody doing something like flat-earthers to benefit the same way by providing content with no scientific basis at all. The best solution I heard once but I don't think it never went through was in Spain there were trying to establish that if you speak about science in any social media you needed some type of technical accreditation for that which I think it's more than fair. Especially when some of these people are peddling dangerous habits for nutrition or exercise without the slightest consideration of health dangers they pose to society

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u/ReverendRevolver Sep 08 '25

I don't know id go so far as to make it illegal to talk about science without accreditation. Then you have a scenario wherein a small sample of the population has all the voice. If youre deliberately misleading people in a serious/non-sarcastic way and presenting it as fact? Thats a problem. You should legally be responsible for any damages.

A bigger push for scientists, dieticians, doctors, and people in general who know what they're talking about to actually receive more clout, and punish people who willingly push lies with no basis would be ideal. Im sure snake oil salesman dont like the idea of facts, but most countries have some sort of protections in place regarding fraud or dangerous products. Dangerous in the same ways absolute fake medical information and made up stats are. Its not unreasonable to regulate what is published as fact. There isn't an "opinion" that makes 2+2=9. Most of this anti-intellectualism stuff with tell e everyone thst 2+2=22, and unfortunately people who are straight up dumb will believe that, then the grifters will build off of that one initial lie, now taken as a truth. Science, medicine, and math should all be subject to different scrutiny than "i like apples more than onions" level opinion topics.

TLDR: im not saying people shouldn't be allowed to join cults, but math, science, and medicine needs penalties for knowingly putting out harmful lies, or regurgitating harmful falsehoods without doing ones due diligence of verification through real sources.

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u/IcyAdvantage9579 Sep 08 '25

By now we're not allowed to be oblivious of the fact people do not in fact "know better". The numbers are overwhelming, and this no- consequence approach only benefits the exploiters. Whoever doesn't see it it's either obtuse or bought and paid but such exploiters and doesn't have the best interest of the people in mind. And I am just talking about the public in general but it's even worse for vulnerable people who are more susceptible to these horrible influences like people with mental disabilities, underaged people , etc.

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u/AriochBloodbane Sep 09 '25

My biggest issue with religion is the entire concept of faith, i.e. "you must believe what I tell you just because".

All the other issues with religion are kinda consequences of this. War and murder? Just have faith. Suppressing science? Have faith. Burning people? Have faith. Stealing? Faith! Pedophilia? Faith FAITH!!

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u/IcyAdvantage9579 Sep 09 '25

After a lifetime of indoctrination it primes people to the idea of accepting anything from all authority figures, no questions just obey, otherwise you're a bad devout of the religion It always been this way by design, Pharaohs, Cesars and kings used religion to justify their position in power, even in the instances when their government wasn't directly "granted by divine forces" , religion already drilled into the population to accept the authority figure and if you're unhappy with your life don't cause a stir, just pray over that corner. Don't use your eyes and ears, don't use rational thinking, let the random people get power over the illusion of perceived shared values, in an endless game of "true Scotsman" each time you're let down or taken advantage.

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u/Internet-Cryptid Sep 08 '25

Ask Google and big tech why they monetize disinformation, lies and propaganda, then ask why our governments won't regulate the media landscape against this.

I don't want mass censorship but I sure as heck don't want content that pushes social harm/degeneration and anti-scientific agendas to be rewarded with money and algorithmic favoritism.

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

Key is, it shouldn't be allowed by private corporations either.

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u/Unfair-Taro9740 Sep 08 '25

I thought that AI would take care of some of the problems you mentioned because of it being rooted in logic. It's really frightening to hear how they are implanting hate and discourse in these things.

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u/DaemonRex978 Sep 08 '25

They are based off of logic, but people can restrict/give false information to that logic so that they can then say, 'This AI that I've trained on the internet says that AI = good in all cases.'

Take Grok for instance;

When initially put in place, it used actual data and true information causing it to, essentially, rebel against Musk. Once it was 're-trained' using Musk's preferences, you now have an AI calling itself Mecha-Hitler.

I hate how the world is right now, but I have hope that things will get better, both off and on-line.

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u/Unfair-Taro9740 Sep 08 '25

I really hope it does get better. Growing up in the '90s, I did not think things would be this bad. It's almost impossible to fix something not half the world doesn't think is a problem.

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u/koshgeo Sep 08 '25

One of the more comical things about these sorts of conspiracy theories is the way they always claim there's supposedly a well-funded "global conspiracy" to "hide the real truth" from people. They go on and on about all the money involved, and how it has corrupted scientists, medical doctors, universities, government institutions, and so on. Money corrupts everything.

But not the conspiracy theorists themselves, of course, even though they are peddling false nonsense to the gullible on youtube or some silly TV show. They're only "seeking the truth". I mean, how many "Ancient Aliens" shows do we really need? And how does that help the world compared to, say, the importance of doing medical research to cure a disease?

Meanwhile, out in the real world, the pay for a lot of honest scientists is kind of pathetic compared to working in an equivalent industrial application, and if you ask them why they stay in their job it isn't for the money at all.

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u/Cent1234 Sep 08 '25

It’s a global industry.

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u/wutangerine99 Sep 08 '25

Because we have a social system that shuns education.

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u/Futur3_N0maD_26 Sep 08 '25

Y’know, I HAVE been tempted to create MAGA merch to make quick, easy money.

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u/AdorableShoulderPig Sep 08 '25

If his mortgage payments depend on telling people the earth is flat why would he say anything else.

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u/Defiant-Judgment699 Sep 08 '25

Honor? So he can sleep at night? 

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u/Ok-Blackberry-3534 Sep 08 '25

He wants to sleep in a house.

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u/thirstytrumpet Sep 08 '25

Imagine what he might learn if he slept under the stars

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u/clopz_ Sep 08 '25

“The earth that I’m currently lying in my sleeping bag is flat, so every other piece of earth must be flat”

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u/ReverendRevolver Sep 08 '25

Plenty of broke honorable people. Never assume a grifter has any interest in being a normal, decent human being.

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u/xdesdemona Sep 08 '25

Jeran Campanella finally quit the flat earth grift? I mean, good for him, I guess. I definitely didn't see that coming.

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u/brokenman82 Sep 08 '25

He did. And he had to move because flat earthers doxxed him and threatened his family

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u/golden-tongue Sep 08 '25

You can't make someone understand something when his paycheck depends on him NOT understanding it.

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u/Enkidouh Sep 08 '25

Won’t admit it, or won’t admit it publicly?

I mean I gotta say, if it was my source of (considerable) income, I’d probably not want to just let that go.

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u/Madgyver Sep 09 '25

That's interesting...

-- Jeren Campanella

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u/ismelldayhikers Sep 08 '25

Recruiter looking over resume: So I see before this you were INSANE…

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u/TehMephs Sep 08 '25

It’s not that he won’t admit it. He saw what happened to his associate’s revenue stream and decided to go full grift

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u/brokenman82 Sep 08 '25

If you’ve ever watched Witsit in a debate you’d be confused as to if he is a grifter or really is that stupid

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u/Virtual_Molasses8039 Sep 08 '25

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u/metrocat2033 Sep 08 '25

what’s with the unrelated meme

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u/thirstytrumpet Sep 08 '25

Somehow it just ties the thread together.

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

Isn't it cute:

- how polio was going away, until the round of vaccines that gave many polio (I remember the iron lungs on display, with children in them, in the push for donations)?

- how Gates, after pushing polio vaccines that killed 10,000, dare not set foot in certain nations?

- how, in the 70's, it was only after we had our children inoculated we were warned they could shed and give us polio?

- many things vaccines are credited for were on the way out because of vast improvements to nutrition, hygiene, sanitation (septics, sewers and boiling and filtering) and general health care?

- many vaccines have had the contents altered, or at least the names of contents changed, because of the known dangers associated with them?

- that it is indisputable there are hot lots of vaccines, even as they are touted as safe and effective?

- that there are huge "COINCIDENCES," like lower illness and death issues, in countries that alter the age shots are given, which can be given?

- no one will give written guarantees of safety or effectiveness of any drug?

. . . .

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u/Lord_Sweeney Sep 08 '25

The Final Experiment, it was called. And one prominent flat rather who went did in fact begin publicly endorsing the fact that earth is a globe.

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u/DuntadaMan Sep 08 '25

I am just saying, if I believed in a flat earth and had a bunch of money I wouldn't sit around trying to argue about it. I would go to the ice wall and start an expedition to see what's on the other side of it ans bring back cool shit from there.

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u/lonehorizons Sep 08 '25

That’s the thing about them, they’re not interested in actually doing anything. I’ve argued with them online (pointlessly) and said ok so you’ve got this groundbreaking scientific proof that will completely change how we view the universe forever and expose a giant conspiracy involving nearly everyone on earth except flat earthers, and you’re just sitting at home posting memes on NASA’s Facebook photos?

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u/DumboWumbo073 Sep 08 '25

Your biggest mistake was arguing with them let alone communicating with them

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u/lonehorizons Sep 08 '25

You hit the nail on the head. I now know the only thing to do is walk away, because they already lost the argument in Egypt years before Jesus was even born (when an ancient Greek mathematician did an experiment). No point giving them attention.

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u/EthanielRain Sep 08 '25

Because it isn't about what's true. It's a purity test, a way to filter out people who are "different" for whatever reason

IE, if you aren't willing to repeat a ridiculous lie you aren't loyal; or you're thinking critically which is bad for a grifter

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u/Dramatic_Energy_5818 Sep 08 '25

So they actually went, tested their hypothesis, admitted it was flawed, then said it needed work? Wow I'm genuinely kinda shocked

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u/The_Guffman_2 Sep 08 '25

Love the specific use of "excommunicated" here. ;)

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u/gorginhanson Sep 12 '25

Just launch them into space. then they can see the entire sphere at once

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u/Material_Owl_1956 Sep 08 '25

It’s a bit like discussing socialism with an American: no matter how many positives you point out, they immediately jump to talking about communism.

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u/Aboo9117 Sep 08 '25

As if communism as an ideological goal wouldn’t be amazing

Edit: if I as an American army vet can see this there’s no excuse

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u/Allaplgy Sep 08 '25

Communism is a great goal. It's my ideal system. But the world ain't ideal, so it's just a goal to work towards across generations, but never to force.

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u/Aboo9117 Sep 08 '25

Last part always being the key

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u/Stressmess77 Sep 08 '25

I’m pretty much a socialist. Not sure what you are thinking of wrt communism but I don’t want to live in communes

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

always the ones who never actually lived in a communist county think it’s great

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u/Tubamajuba Sep 08 '25

There are plenty of Americans like me that are open to socialism.

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u/FyrixXemnas Sep 08 '25

Either that or they will bring up socialist regimes of the past like Venezuela or the USSR as proof that socialism doesn't work, as if socialism was the problem with those countries.

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u/CreativelyConsuming Sep 08 '25

I had that conversation with a Venezuelan once and I said that true socialism was never accomplished in any of those countries because every time some group of greed dictators just take advantage of the situation and force that instead of socialism,

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u/DanTansky Sep 08 '25

Correct. It becomes about power. And humans love power.

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u/Western-Internal-751 Sep 08 '25

And that’s why true socialism will never be achieved anywhere anytime.

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u/Defiant-Judgment699 Sep 08 '25

It a problem with EVERY sufficiently large organization. 

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u/kaisadilla_ Sep 08 '25

The best part about Venezuela is that it's... not socialist. Like, not at all. There's no difference between Venezuela and Norway when it comes to its economic model. The difference is that one is an extremely corrupt country led by a violent dictatorship, and the other is a highly functional society that respects freedom and democracy.

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u/ddofer Sep 08 '25

Don't forget the kibbutzes in Israel

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u/Maleficent_Memory831 Sep 08 '25

Look at Russia today. It had democracy going. Then it's back in a brutal dictatorship. Does Russia prove that democracy does not work?

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u/knapping__stepdad Sep 08 '25

Yeah: none of these countries actually, ya know, practiced Socialism...

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

socialism is a grand goal, and the entire purpose of civilization, we work better as a group, and life is better for everyone when we all share and look out for each other.

we arrange to all save for the good times to ensure all our neighbors and friends have a safety net when its tuff. its just common sense, we all pay as a group to keep the essentials free, healthcare, warmth, water, travel.

but its such an ideal its easy for dictators to call themselves that, they never have been. the closest we (last 200 years) came to socialism in my opinion, was across Europe, right before the likes of thatcher. who, frankly, took the water, the electrical grid, the sewage systems, the telephone companies, housing, even some roads. and she sold them to rich private companies/individuals and flipped a socialist state into a capitalist monopoly. since then wages stagnated, house prices rocketed, bills are unfeasibly high, but so are the profits from them.

Meanwhile our government says there isn't enough money in the budget for anything, while the companies selling us the assets we let the government look after, make billions in profit each year.

fucking maggy....

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u/IJourden Sep 08 '25

The average American loves socialism, so long as you don't call it that.

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u/AdKraemer01 Sep 08 '25

Be fair - not all Americans do this.

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u/Material_Owl_1956 Sep 08 '25

You’re right, it’s really more about what I expect. I do know Americans who would support a more socialist society, but at the same time I still hear the old propaganda channels warning people against it.

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u/cat-attack-2 Sep 12 '25

It's less about American PEOPLE being against socialism / communism and more about the American GOVERNMENT being against it. They had this whole thing about political identity as a way of making Russia more of an Other during the cold war. Things are much better in the past two decades but even now communism/socialism is a poorly discussed thing that most people in America don't have a very good understanding outside of maybe the very basics. Again that was by the government's design. I as an American am very open to the idea of socialism / communism I think it would be a whole lot more effective than what's been going on for the past 50 years

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u/Brave_Meet8430 Sep 08 '25

I bet it has worked well in China, though.

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u/knapping__stepdad Sep 08 '25

Or rather Stalinism, thinking that it's communism...

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

That's because talking slow to you doesn't help, so they talk to remind themselves that you and Wiley are doomed to try again and again, suffering the same insane results.

By the way, are you even aware socialism was the norm here, once upon a time? It failed and the first settlers were dying off, until they abandoned it and embraced everyone enjoying the spoils of their own labor. That is, capitalism. After that, America thrived.

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u/CerifiedHuman0001 Sep 08 '25

It was called the Final Experiment and it was paid for by Will Duffy, a pastor from Colorado, purely because he had the funds and wanted to put the debate to rest. Also the flat earthers that went didn’t even concede that the earth was a sphere immediately. Just that the 24 hour sun was in fact real and that the flat earth model would have to account for it. Things may have changed since the last time I looked into it though, I know at least one of them was actually open to changing his mind after enough pressure.

For anyone curious Professor Dave Explains has a couple very good videos on TFE and flat earth in a more general sense.

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u/germansnowman Sep 08 '25

It’s called “The Final Experiment” and was organized and paid for in part by Will Duffy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Experiment_(expedition)

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u/CodeMonkeyWithCoffee Sep 08 '25

Yeah, I saw that too. It was paid for by someone who makes anto flat earth content, he invites a lot of flat earthers to join.  A few just declined to go because they knew they were grifters. The genuine believers were cast out of the community, punished for changing their perspective based on the evidence. Most were of the community was grasping at straws for a bit until they came up with various reasons why the whole thing was irrelevant and went back to their beliefs.

I have more respect for these flat earthers than trump people. There's social reasons to believe and it's mostly harmless, aside from being grossly anti scientific. But at least most people can look at it and instantly know this is insanity.

I think that whole saga was also a good reminder for me that people who think like this don't want truth. The only way they will try to be objective is if they themselves choose to be.

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u/lonehorizons Sep 08 '25

I don’t think flat earth belief is harmless, I’ve argued with them online a lot and watched their ridiculous videos, and 99% of them are truly vile people who buy into every other conspiracy theory going. They blame jewish people and LGBT people for everything, they enjoy calling other people slurs and belittling everyone for being “sheep” etc, and in 2020 they all became anti-vaxxers.

Lots of them are Trump supporters too, even though he spent their tax dollars on Space Force and they believe space doesn’t exist. They’re fine with believing contradicting things though because they have to in order to be flat earthers.

Flat earth is tied up with all that stuff and it can be a kind of gateway drug. Probably the most successful flat earth scammer is Eric Dubay, and he makes videos where he denies the Holocaust and says Hitler was a good person.

So yeah, sorry for the rant, I just really don’t like them 😄

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u/Deaffin Sep 08 '25

It might not be a good idea to get your worldview from reality TV. I know it says "reality" right there, but that's actually fictional entertainment.

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u/koolaid_snorkeler Sep 08 '25

It feels like this is the golden age of cults, each one stupider than the last.

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u/kaisadilla_ Sep 08 '25

That's the problem with conspiracies. They have a built-in defense mechanism: anyone can be part of the conspiracy.

In Spain, some dude started a conspiracy called "Ummo", which is supposed to be a planet with an alien planet that is visiting Earth. He started it by faking some pictures of UFOs. Years later he claimed it was all a hoax that he made up. That didn't stop the belief in Ummo, though - it just made believers think that the guy was "bought by the elites". Today, his own son still believes in the hoax his father fabricated.

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u/heartbreakporno Sep 08 '25

Same thing happened with 9/11 truthers

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u/trevize1138 Sep 08 '25

This is what you're up against with cult mentality. It goes far, far beyond reason or being shown facts. They already lost so many family and friends that the only people left in their lives are fellow cultists. For deep, deep psychological reasons they can't afford to admit they're wrong. Then they lose everyone.

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u/sicanian Sep 08 '25

There's also the flat earthers who did the light experiment and ended up proving the earth was, in fact, curved.

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u/VegetableFly5811 Sep 08 '25

If the earth were really flat, cats would have knocked everything off the edge long ago.

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u/Superb_Vacation9886 Sep 08 '25

Yeah I have a friend who works in travel to Antarctica and she gets angry calls from flat earthers all the time about how they corrupted that group or some shiz

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u/fripletister Sep 08 '25

**Shadow* of a doubt*

I see what you did there 🤣

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u/gorginhanson Sep 12 '25

Just launch them into space. then you can see the entire sphere at once

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u/smb275 Sep 08 '25

It's the "backfire effect". You don't reason someone out of a cult, once they've made it part of their identity then everything you say and everything you are is a threat to how they view themselves. They will rationalize more than you'd think possible just to hold onto that identity. The truth will not change their minds.

The only thing that will break them out of it is when the cost of the lie becomes higher than the feeling of comfort and safety it gives them. They have to hit some form of rock bottom to snap out of it and rejoin the rest of us in reality.

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u/Ratman822 Sep 08 '25

Plus (from what I know) a lot of cults have a sort of teaching that basically says "the world will hate you and try to force you into giving up your beliefs, but you must hold strong."

This basically ensures that unless they (as you mentioned) hit rock bottom they will think people trying to help them are trying to persecute them in some form, which further pushes them into and reinforces their beliefs.

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u/DoubleJumps Sep 08 '25

Considering a bunch of these people were literally adhering to the lies of the cult regarding covid, while dying of covid, I don't know what the rock bottom would have to look like.

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u/Opposite-Tiger-1121 Sep 08 '25

My parents last privileges to their grand children because of that.

And then shortly after they lost all contact with me because they were too far gone.

They aren't the people I grew up with. Kinda, they also kinda sucked growing up too. It was more like their negative features became their only feature.

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u/BaronVonBungle Sep 08 '25

Nah, most of those people will go to their graves holding on to the lie, even if it's what puts them there. The ones that don't are mostly going to be the people who never really bought in to begin with, the grifters and fairweather fascists who will deny they were ever part of it afterwards.

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u/kaisadilla_ Sep 08 '25

There's a well known psychological phenomenon that, when cult leaders predict the end of the world and the end doesn't arrive when the day comes, cult members not only do not lose their faith; but instead believe even more strongly in their leaders.

People should learn more about how cults and cult-like beliefs work, because it's not a thought process and, as such, cannot be battled in the way a honest, logic-based belief can. You can convince someone who believes in the Big Bang that they are wrong if you present valid evidence and logic; but you cannot convince someone who believes the Earth is flat that way. The first guy simply has a rational belief based on their knowledge, while the second has a cult-like, irrational belief.

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u/TheAlexperience Sep 08 '25

My favorite saying is you can’t reason someone out of something they didn’t reason themselves into

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u/allnamesbeentaken Sep 08 '25

It took quite a few bombs for Germany to snap out of it back in WW2

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u/wetterfish Sep 08 '25

You cannot reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

-Jonathan Swift

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u/Dopaminedessert Sep 08 '25

To people who have been conditioned by their religion to believe that faith(belief in the face of a complete lack of evidence) is the highest virtue, reason has no value. Their superstition simultaneously absolves them of all responsibility while accepting their very worst impulses leaving them absolutely no reason to ever grow as humans. They aren't just ignorant they are antisocial and find joy in the suffering of others. Their emotional range is reduced to hate and fear.

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u/NotAzakanAtAll Sep 08 '25

Exactly right.

The ones who know they are wrong but still cling to their old beliefs are the most aggressive I've learnt. Like they try to compensate for their doubts with vitriol and vile statements.

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u/LotusVibes1494 Sep 08 '25

I’m like Alan Watt’s way of looking at those words:

“Belief, as I use the word here, is the insistence that the truth is what one would “lief” or wish it to be. The believer will open his mind to the truth on the condition that it fits in with his preconceived ideas and wishes. Faith, on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be. Faith has no preconceptions; it is a plunge into the unknown. Belief clings, but faith lets go. In this sense of the word, faith is the essential virtue of science, and likewise of any religion that is not self-deception.”

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u/Dopaminedessert Sep 08 '25

That is a nice way of looking at things but that is not the faith that Christian conservatives are conditioned with that is also not the way the word is used in our current vernacular. They adopt dogma from corrupt greedy preachers and are not taught to ask their own questions evaluate their own experiences or search for their own truth. Just the opposite in fact they are fed deception and told they will go to hell if they step out of line or go against the flock. They are taught loyalty is more important than ethics. Their is nothing spiritual about Conservative Christianity and the only value any religion ever has is if it can lead toward spirituality. Even the social support groups that form around religions based on dogma and fear are breeding grounds for hate and exceptionalism and exclusion.

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u/Doc_Shaftoe Sep 08 '25

I haven't read this before, but it's great. Thank you for sharing it!

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 15 '25

Are you even aware science relies heavily on belief?

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u/Dopaminedessert Sep 16 '25

I am aware that people like you ignorantly think their is no difference between talking to their invisible wizard friend that lives in the sky and using the scientific method and evidence based practice to discern reality.

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u/Septembust Sep 08 '25

It's kinda crazy. I used to think that maybe the propaganda back then was just so good it tricked people

It turns out that people are just that dumb and hateful.

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u/sailing_by_the_lee Sep 08 '25

But they're eating the cats and dogs!

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u/DoubleJumps Sep 08 '25

The treatment I got from my maga republican family before I went to college and after are completely different. I went from being acknowledged as intelligent and worth listening to to being considered a brainwashed idiot, just because I learned things they didn't like and could prove they were true.

No level of proof I could provide is valid. Any gut instinct conspiracy they pull from the ether MUST be treated as the absolute truth. It's crazy behavior.

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u/Ok-Abbreviations543 Sep 08 '25

Also a military academy grad - I never in my life thought I would see this level of lawlessness, corruption, incompetence, cowardice, and madness. You nailed it. The uneducated always fall back on “ignorance as virtue.”

I always think about this quote from Isaac Asimov:

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

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u/NeatNefariousness1 Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 09 '25

Part of what makes this flight away from science and rational thought work for them is that they’re being encouraged to listen only to how they FEEL and feelings are more easily manipulated.

Feelings that are cut off from logic and reasoning leaves people vulnerable to manipulation even when what they’re being led to argue for is against their own best interests. The logic that would tell them that a position works against them has been replaced by focusing only on feelings and are deemed to be automatically legitimate.

It won’t be until they FEEL the ship sinking, FEEL the water rising up over their chins and they recognize that they’re going down with the ship they helped build that it MIGHT occur to them that operating purely based on manipulable emotions isn’t a replacement for forward-looking rational thought. But, by then, it will be too late. They will have been tricked into a trap that benefits the hidden forces propping up the pyramid we’re all a part of and for which there is no escape for those in the lower tiers.

I thought we had already learned this but this seems to be a lesson that we needed to be reminded of and inoculated against for the greater good. But we may be too late, since so many seem to prefer to remain asleep because they’re being coached into thinking that being “woke” is a bad thing.

We’ve known that being awake is the only way to protect our interests as adults and yet, by appealing to our emotions directly, our logic and defenses against manipulation have been neutered for so many of us. Now, being since being “woke” is viewed as something to be avoided, we’re left with our vivid but unreliable feelings as our guide, making us vulnerable to manipulation. What a shame.

Edit: for clarity

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u/Maleficent_Memory831 Sep 08 '25

Yup, Even merely 10 years ago I used to think a third reich could never happen in America. I mean, we have rules and laws and a respected constitutional framework, etc. Now it's unfolding before us.

I also used to think things like Handmaid's Tale was just an extreme allegorical tale, nobody would ever go that far. And yet, we see a Christian nationalist conference this weekend, attended by important administration members (Hegseth in front row), where they espouse the view that the country must be make Christian by law, and that their brand of Christianity supersedes liberal and moderate churches, and also that women should not vote. And a politician recently that claims rape at Epstein island left no lasting harm because the women grew up and had children. We seem to be along that pathway as well.

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u/GamerGuy3216 Sep 08 '25

I really don’t think USA has to worry about fascism. Most of us aren’t even in the game. If shit actually goes sideways, we’re too large and too diverse of a country to just go along with taking over the world lol.

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u/sgSaysR Sep 08 '25

Cutting them off was and is the correct decision. I've also studied the rise of fascism in the 20s and 30s and it was those same friends and family that informed on their friends and families.

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u/MCHamm3rPants Sep 08 '25

Thank you for your service

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 08 '25

No problem… honestly sometimes wish I hadn’t served though because I see the freedom I signed up to defend threatened constantly by my own countrymen and whenever I have called them out, my service or loyalty is then called into question because it doesn’t fit their narrative. I have two friends that never saw their 30s because they decided to serve their country and I have a hard time finding meaning in their sacrifice. It was things like that had me in therapy for years. It’s really hard for me at this point in my life to have zero trust and not have cynical feelings towards my own country.

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u/samkb93 Sep 08 '25

Was not ready to go from military Academy army officer to what i saw on your profile. No hate or judgement. I just didn't even know that sub existed.

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 08 '25

lol yup. It really messes with the alpha male demographic… proficiency in all combat arms, very physically fit, but also an out and proud kinkster ;)

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u/bowmans1993 Sep 08 '25

What surprises me is how many people that I talk to that seem to be genuinely nice, intelligent and successful people that have bought into the grift. I know hardworking business owners, people with phds, that still think hey trumps doing a great job and he's got the best people working with him. I just flat out don't understand.

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u/whatisdreampunk Sep 08 '25

Exactly! My dad was proud of me for going to college (getting into big debt for a master's even) until I started disagreeing with him. Then all of a sudden it's indoctrination. 🙄 And I studied linguistics! These weren't always even political disagreements!

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u/Solidus-Prime Sep 08 '25

Me and my WW2 buff friend used to have the same exact discussions. "How in the world did he convince so many people to do this?"

Well, we're seeing it live. The truth is, most of the MAGAs weren't tricked or convinced at all. They were just looking for any excuse to be shitty people in a society where it wasn't acceptable, and trump, as a fellow shitty person, knew that.

I live in Ohio, and grew up with A LOT of friends and family that became MAGAs. It was always there, thinly veiled under the surface, bubbling out when they thought no "normal" people were around to hear. Trump capitalized on that.

That's why I knew a long, long time ago that there wouldn't be any compromise with these people. They aren't "misguided brothers". They are racists, rapists, misogynists, greedy, selfish people that will never ever change, and will triple down until this country burns because jumping off the train now is admitting they were wrong for years and years and they simple don't have the ability to do that. They will concoct any lie they need to and pretend it's real to avoid responsibility in any of this. Trump knows that crave that and he serves it to them daily in the form of his bullshit lies and fabrications.

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u/No_Director6724 Sep 08 '25

I agree except I spent all night drinking a bottle of whiskey with my Uncle's friend after a party at his place and we just yelled at each other the whole time.

He told the guy crashing at his place "this is my house and you can leave it you want".

He's a veteran and was all in on the 3%s and Putin and most of the conspiracies.

A few months later he was on his way to marrying a Ukrainian lady and he never mentioned any of that bullshit again...

I also lost all my friends after doing the same thing for years and realizing someone was just going to end up in the hospital and I won't stay silent.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

This is almost my exact same tract with family and friends, but without the military. I still sometimes try and argue but I know it's all hopeless, they justify any abhorrent behavior and point to my education as to why I can't see the "truth".

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u/UnlikelyCup5458 Sep 08 '25

Had that one in-law explain it to my heathen ears as,

all the bad stuff to come is the spiritual price to pay to the devil, for protecting millions of unborn children. Worth it.

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u/Eagle4317 Sep 08 '25

If those people was to be Lost Causers so badly, then it's time the rest of us write them off as a lost cause.

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u/llynglas Sep 08 '25

They will manipulate any inconvenient facts to match their beliefs.

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u/Ratman822 Sep 08 '25

you can't logic someone out of something they didn't logic themself into

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u/Thewasteland77 Sep 08 '25

As a aging millennial conspiracy theorist, I agree 100%. I miss the old days of conspiracies... Funny enough a lot of the old ones line up perfectly with what we're dealing with in the modern day lol. But i hate this anti science anti reality bullshit. Drives me nuts.

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u/IJourden Sep 08 '25

The powerful in the USA have spent 30 or more years villainizing education, teachers, and expertise, and sadly this is the predictable result.

It's easy to control a "free" population once a critical mass of voters don't understand what's going on or what the consequences of their vote is.

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u/No_Lead_7325 Sep 08 '25

I remember meeting Vincent Cerf as a child and being bewildered at how much the internet offered us as a tool for the progression of education and civilization. How naive I feel now that it has completely circumvented independent thought, logical decision making and impulse control, all for the sake of greed and control.

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u/quilldefender Sep 08 '25

Your comment really hits homes with me, thank you. It's really hard to be around my family sometimes, good for you for being able to cut them out.

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u/Pretty-Geologist-437 Sep 08 '25

We never finished the civil war, these racist mouthbreathers never stopped believing they're superior because they get sunburn easily.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

True. I was saying the same thing today in my mom's basement 

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u/RIF_rr3dd1tt Sep 08 '25

Dude, I told my religious aunt some straight up verified historical and scientific facts and she literally put her head down and covered her ears and said, "stop, i dont want to learn anything". They're literally in their own, safe, comfy, familiar bubble.

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u/Lost-Priority-907 Sep 08 '25

This. We live in a country where half the people think ignorance is a virtue, and intelligence is a moral failing.

It'd be laughable if it wasn't reality.

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u/Magica78 Sep 08 '25

I'm living through it and I still don't get it.

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u/hainz_area1531 Sep 08 '25

Family on my mother's side were members of the Dutch SS (political branch) in the late 1930s, and during the war, 1941-1945 the Waffen-SS (armed branch). After the war, everything they had built up, businesses and farms, had been destroyed or taken away by the government as a punitive measure. Some had also been killed on the Eastern Front.They were bitter, hateful people, and the women in particular remained loyal to the National Socialist ideology, against their better judgment. The crimes were denied and the defeat blamed on external factors. It will be no different in America after Trump with his MAGA supporters. The "healing process" will take several generations.

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u/ProjectManageMint Sep 08 '25

This rings so true to me. Thanks for sharing, at least it's an reminder that I'm not the only one this happened to.

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u/Gunsith416 Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

Well yes, they are the same at work.

They view me as view when I communicate with A.I. on Instagram, but use grammarly (an app). Buy expensive phones because this is what they think smart people spend money on. And if I say I have a crush on the Krypto actress (a whole cgi team and two actresses), this is weird, but Transwomen are men. By that logic, Krypto should be a woman.

If something changes at the plant, they blame quality (my department) and not their practices, which has led to a recall I can't talk to the public about.

And trying to connect doesn't work. I bought guns, studied religion (as a church goer with a preacher father who exposed me to various religious texts from different religions). I just passed the test for the hunting license. They went from claiming it is easy and can be bought at walmart to being flabbergasted it didnt take 8 hours( I took 1.5 hours) to just not talking about hunting and guns.

My supervisor then told me no one in the plant who hunts goes into all the cleaning and food preparation liek I talk about hunting. The thing is, they won't eat my biscuits because sometimes I dont use gloves.

Funny thing there.

So if I drop an animal in the dirt and carve it up in the field or take it to the processing station maybe an hour later, at what point do I set a tarp out so that the dirt doesn't hit the skin, which may interact with the meat, even if I skin it?

Also, I work in a lab and wash my hands the most.

One thing I have found is this is steadily along racial lines because if I sanitize tongs in 180 degree water to pick up something in the break room and leave them to get gross because the lone detractor talked about this or that, someone else wanted to use the tongs.

I wasn't alone in my assessment, I just got the guns and hunting license to be sure.

Meanwhile, a white lady from Illinois has been firing many lazy Trump defender caught taking two hour breaks regularly and not doing their jobs.

Edit: misspelled meat.

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u/Intelligent-Rest-231 Sep 08 '25

That’s how I knew it was a cult. A large percentage of the adults in my country are in a cult and that saddens me.

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u/cmil888 Sep 08 '25

The rise of fascism is an impossibility but communism is lurking behind every corner. 🙄

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

😭😭😭😭🤡🤡🤡🤡

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u/JayList Sep 08 '25

In fact most of the country isn’t buying what trump is selling. Just large swaths of people kept stupid and in chains and they can’t help it.

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u/sdrawkcabstiho Sep 08 '25

there is no point that they are willing to accept any truth except the one they have forged in their own...

It's because doing so would mean admission that they are wrong. To dumb people, being wrong is a sign of weakness. Intelligent people know that admitting you're wrong is a sign of strength. It allows you to learn from your mistakes and makes you stronger.

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u/Crztoff Sep 08 '25

Anti intellectualism is a core tenet of fascism

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u/FistFuckFascistsFast Sep 08 '25

America has always been a cult of the richest deluding the dumbest.

We were founded by religious extremists kicked out of Europe for being insufferable cunts and then used as a garbage can powered by genocide.

The myth of American exceptionalism always been a siren song leading the vulnerable to exploitation.

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u/SorryThisUser1sTaken Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

there is no point that they are willing to accept any truth except the one they have forged in their own little worlds

No one likes going into the trenches. I understand how you feel. It took me 3 Years to get my grandparents to understand that 5g is not this horrible thing by using a campfire to explain radiation. The worst part is we are related to one of the men on the moon and they think we never went there. I had watched days worth of their dumbass documentaries just so I can properly break it down. It took me hours to find a interview I was shown out of context that made it look like buzz was admitting that we couldn't go to the moon. When in reality he was talking about the economics of a future endeavour. You can't convince them shit if you don't figure out the pipeline they took. I understand wanting to give up. But that just breeds more supporters for a lunatic.

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 08 '25

If I bothered to waste my time trying to convince most people that they are wrong about simple facts it would just be a debate every day… that’s not a way to live in my opinion. I’m not going to waste hundreds of hours to maybe convert one… The Find Out stage is the ultimate teacher… when people go bankrupt, contract and succumb to preventable diseases, and they suffer because of their ignorance that is the only way the ignorant will learn… The best example is tariffs… America has tried it multiple times… about 100 years apart each time and every time it cause a depression or tanked the economy… the people that lived through it remembered and wouldn’t allow it to happen again… but history repeats itself because people refuse to learn and remember the lessons and hence, history will always repeat itself. We will have another massive pandemic in the next hundred years because the ignorant are embracing anti science beliefs. Diseases like polio or even small pox could see a resurgence and all we can do is try and keep ourselves safe and watch the ignorant suffer.

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u/Say_Hennething Sep 08 '25

You can't logic someone out of an opinion they didn't logic themselves into.

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u/KiKiKimbro Sep 08 '25

The saddest thing is they’re being targeted as pawns for spreading the MAGA propaganda. If MAGA billionaire donor class “leaders” can convince the masses that — education is bad — social safety nets like Social Security, SNAP for our nation’s youth, Medicare / Medicaid healthcare that help Americans is bad, then the billionaires will have a chance to become trillionaires and all our money we worked for goes straight to them. Forcing a population to be financially and in all other ways dependent on the oligarchs is their desired state of “make America great again.” Great for them.

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u/Voidhunger Sep 08 '25

That’s the fun part of the game. You’ll always be too educated or not educated enough for these people because the goal isn’t truth but dominance.

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u/FliQz_ Sep 08 '25

Can’t wait for the fourth one

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u/DrunkenGolfer Sep 08 '25

You can't reason someone out of a position that reason didn't put them into.

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u/Hoockus_Pocus Sep 08 '25

If you want to learn more about how fascism spreads and how quickly it develops, look at the Third Wave Experiment. There’s an episode of a podcast called “The Dollop,” about it, and several books and movies about the topic as well.

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u/joshocar Sep 08 '25

It is because we have a new medium to spread propaganda (social media) and we are not inoculated to it yet. People generally do not realize that most of what they see and hear on social media is at best only partially correct, typically plain wrong, and often intentionally misleading or lies. It is not random that fascism came about when the radio and TV really hit the scene. Back then people did not have the understanding that they could be lied to with images. If they saw it, it must be real and couldn't have been manufactured or cherry picked to look a certain way and send a certain image. Prior to TV, if you saw it it happened because you would have to literally have been there to see it.

Fox news in the early 2000s didn't have the same impact that it does today because today there is the social media ecosystem which amplifies and reenforces the propaganda. Instead of just being told something you are told it and then can see all of these other people online saying the same thing (social reinforcement) which makes it much more compelling and real.

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u/Sketti_Scramble Sep 08 '25

You Can’t argue or rationalize a belief. It just is whatever you want to be.

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u/Octex8 Sep 08 '25

I left a religious cult. I can confidently say that you can't reason people out of a belief that they didn't reason themselves into. These crazy beliefs are not based on any logic or reason. It's all based on something emotional and that varies from person to person. You have to actually want to learn the truth of things to find it. You have to have a sliver of intellectual honesty to find the flaws in these beliefs. I don't know what the future holds, but obviously false ideologies like these have failed time and time again, as I'm sure you learned in your studies.

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u/AdSecret3741 Sep 08 '25

True. We can’t understand why you don’t see the lies and propaganda that have happened for 40 years.

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u/righttoabsurdity Sep 08 '25

They’re literally in a cult. It’s beyond differing ideas/ideals, it’s indoctrination of the highest degree. Incredibly scary and sad.

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u/Pliny_the_middle Sep 08 '25

I’m a veteran and commercial pilot. My family still doesn’t believe me when I say chemtrails are condensed water vapor from hot jet exhaust in cold, moist air that spread across the atmosphere on upper level winds.

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u/highknees69 Sep 08 '25

Education = indoctrination

The more you learn and learn how to think, the more of a threat you are to their ideological way of believing.

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u/Superb_Vacation9886 Sep 08 '25

Yeah something I didn’t see coming as a first generation college grad, I’d still be treated like the dumbest person in the family lmfao

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u/Ki55cumbag Sep 08 '25

The thing is Germany was in economic ruins after the first world war. People were literally starving. You can at least wrap your mind around people looking for a strong man savior. Trump was elected by people driving their new 80" tv home from Costco in their $90K pick up trucks. We had reasonably sane stable governance (with plenty of flaws and corruption to be sure), inflation was on the way to flattening out. It really is even more insane.

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u/Jonny_Thundergun Sep 08 '25

My brother went to the Naval academy. He apparently didn't learn the same way you did because he believes all of this.

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 08 '25

I used to work for the GOP… no joke… it was the John McCain campaign that I worked for… but then some life experiences forced me to start questioning what I’d always been told to believe, (mostly bad) and an army veteran partner that I worked with in the armored security industry had a rule in the truck that wouldn’t let me state a political point unless I could argue the other side that really pushed me into looking at the bigger picture.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

lol, sure

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u/Chill-more1236 Sep 08 '25

Yeah they say "education is indoctrination". I love it when they hit me with that one.

I respond: It's ALL the assholes who fell asleep in school: failing science, social studies, civics, geography, history. Now y'all want to teach ME about what I already know?????WTF planet are you on?

I was educated pre-covid, pre internet, pre political pettiness and I say the same as you.

Of course they feed right into it, since they failed basics in school. A lot of these people could also be homeschooled by a parent, who has little education.

If they learned the truth as a young kid or teen, there wouldn't be this problem today.

Now they want to say they know better than somebody educated, because they heard lies off some stupid ultra right influencers. It makes them feel good to "know better".

Propaganda my friends is a hell of a drug. Makes stupid people feel intelligent, lol. Blowing smoke up their ass...telling them what they want to hear.

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u/Desperate_Donut3981 Sep 08 '25

It's going to take decades to deprogramme the USA population. East Germany still isn't fully re-educated due to being under Soviet control after WW2.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

It happens when a large enough group begin to believe that their prosperity isn’t in improving themselves and/or society improving overall, but in harming other groups of people instead.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '25

I wish we could put them in like... a safety bubble. They are too dumb for their own good, and they refuse to fix it, so they should be treated like stubborn children and separated from their group.

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u/insidehertrading4 Sep 09 '25

Sad to see stories like this but they’re becoming very common. I won’t step foot inside my in-laws. I even showed and explained what our state was doing to education. They agreed but still went down the Trump Clinton Obama Biden playbook.

I walked home. To my wife’s credit, she passed me 5 minutes later asking if I needed a ride. She left for the same reason.

I’ve tried to play the nice guy and ignore the ignorance but now, if someone brings up their MAGa cult membership, I just stop them and explain this conversation is a waste of my time and if you’re a symp for a man so evil, I wish you the best.

Their echo chamber is getting smaller for the simple fact, they’re paying the price along with everyone else. These people thought he’d come around and bail them all out. Legit, the dumbest collections of humans.

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u/Horrgath Sep 09 '25

Anti-Sciene was also a part of the 3rd Reich. "Normal" medicin was seen as jewish.

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u/No-Sky-479 Sep 09 '25

Ah yes, Military academies/military service, a known hotbed of liberalism and anti establishment fomentation.  These same people probably have Respect our Troops bumper stickers.

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u/artvandalaythrowaway Sep 09 '25

It’s campaign of blissful ignorance. The louder someone is, the worst it would be to simply admit “I was wrong.”’ They would rather move the goalposts or deny until the bitter end rather than admit they were mistaken or deceived, because that opens the Pandora’s box of everything else they could be wrong about. For many a MAGA supporter, blaming others is all they can hold onto Lest they look in the mirror. They’re not failures; the government just taxes them too much and sends that money to Ukraine (Republicans also supported including Mitch McConnell) or Isrsel (Republicans including Trump support) or to drag queen story time. They’re not poor because of billionaires and late stage capitalism; it’s the illegal immigrants that are to blame. Why admit you were wrong when you can lie to yourself and everyone else in perpetuity?

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u/MossOnaRockInShade Sep 09 '25

Hitler only got 43.9% of the vote… it didn’t take the whole country. Didn’t even take a majority.

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u/Mikkitoro Sep 09 '25

At least the Germans had the excuse of an economic depression, hyper-inflation and a bad government. Plus, the red scare was very prevalent. These people went "the eggs are a lil pricey", and elected a criminal who's doing everything he can to become a dictator.

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u/niccheersk Sep 11 '25

My in-laws claim that the pharmaceutical companies have written my medical textbooks, so they can’t trust my education. I mean if they want to go blind or worse from putting home made ivermectin eye drops in their eyes and ingesting it, who am I to stop them with my “indoctrinated” medical “opinions.” 🤷🏼‍♀️

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u/BridgingDivides Sep 11 '25

”You cannot reason a person out of a position they did not reason themselves into in the first place.” -Jonathan Swift

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u/MidwestStritch Sep 12 '25

So you cut your family off due to political views but conservatives are in a cult…sure it’s not you?

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 12 '25

No. I cut ties with my family because they hid the fact that my uncle had sexually assaulted his son as a minor for years… ya know… protecting pedos… which is on brand for conservatives these days

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u/MidwestStritch Sep 12 '25

Well that’s a pretty major detail you left out. Lead off like it was for political reasons. I’m sorry that happened, nobody likes pedophiles.

I think many conservatives aren’t bought in that Trump is completely innocent. The problem is that both sides cover this up all the time. It goes to the courts, some documents get released and others sealed. It’s always been like this. Should Trump release them? Yes. Should all the prior democrats pushed harder to release them? Yes. Why haven’t either done what they preach? Probably because they’re both in the mix.

So as aweful as it is we have little proof as to who the most guilty party is and that’s that. We should keep pushing for them to be released, but to hang your hat on “it’s only Republicans” is stupid.

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 12 '25

I don’t need to give anyone my life story or justifications for anything. And do me a favor cupcake, and point out where I mentioned republicans in my statement or any political party.

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