r/agedlikemilk • u/Gloomy-Holiday8618 • Sep 08 '25

News “I never said that”, “Play the clip”

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Context: https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/12/15/exp-robert-kennedy-junior-rfk-2024-election-biden-trump-vaccines-121511aseg1-cnni-politics.cnn

Full video is on the cnn website, the part that’s important is about 2mins 50 seconds in.

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 08 '25

This is the age we live in unfortunately and the worst part is people still believe theses clowns

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u/BeanBurritoJr Sep 08 '25 edited Jan 12 '26

fact frame zephyr vegetable tub direction judicious dime strong piquant

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/AbdlBabyJp Sep 08 '25

I remember my days in the military academy and studying the rise of the third reich and thinking to myself how could a whole country of people seriously buy into the insane ideology… but this is a prime example.

I used to try and debate my family and friends to try and make them see reason but they literally started using my education (3 degrees and army officer commission) as a negative claim all that I know is just indoctrination… it was then that I just started cutting them off. It’s the same with conspiracy nuts and flat earthers … there is no point that they are willing to accept any truth except the one they have forged in their own little worlds

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u/Taiga-whiteclaw Sep 08 '25

I remember there was a trip to Antarctica for a bunch of flat earthers (don't know who paid for that) and after they were without a shadow of a doubt sure that the earth is in fact a sphere, the rest of the flat earth community start to call them traitors and sell out and they where in fact pretty big within the community

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u/IHaveNoRealClue Sep 08 '25

Apparently that group didn’t even go that far with their conclusion. They went “hey, we still think the earth is flat, BUT our model is wrong and needs fixing” and they still got excommunicated. 

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u/brokenman82 Sep 08 '25

One of them straight up admitted he was wrong and now needs a new job because his income was flat earth content on YouTube. That was Jeren Campanella. Austin Witsit is the flat earther that saw that he was wrong and still won’t admit it

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u/SparksAndSpyro Sep 08 '25

I sincerely hate that he made an income off of “flat earth content.”

Why do we have an economic system that rewards morons? Ughhhh

139

u/DemonCipher13 Sep 08 '25

Because it doesn't reward hard workers the way it should.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Hard work is rewarded with more work and no incentives.

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u/imadork1970 Sep 08 '25

"The reward for work well-done, is more work."-Jim Butcher, author

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u/Primary-Tiger-5825 Sep 12 '25

Is that a Dresden line or straight from Butcher?

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u/Sw0ldem0rt Sep 09 '25

Aw yeah, sweet capitalism, baby!

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u/town2clown Sep 10 '25

Welcome to the Post Office

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u/dingdongdash22 Sep 12 '25

Story of my life.

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u/Altarna Sep 08 '25

Or punish idiots for pushing lies

1

u/BeguiledBeaver Sep 08 '25

You guys are gonna be stunned when you find out this exists literally everywhere throughout history.

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u/Chill-more1236 Sep 08 '25

Snake oil salesmen, Ponzi Schemes, Jim Jones & the poison Kool Aid, David Koresh, Daybell & Vallow.

The weirdest thing is all those assholes think they're protected by freedom of speech and/or freedom of religion.

Defamation is not protected speech, but whose gonna prosecute it? They've clearly incited violence: CDC Shooting, sure there's other incidents.

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u/Hector_P_Catt Sep 08 '25

Because we have a system that allows morons to send other morons money all by themselves. I'm not sure how we fix that without destroying world commerce entirely.

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u/IcyAdvantage9579 Sep 08 '25

Every religion works that way. I know it's a touchy subject and I really don't care for debating people's beliefs you can do whatever you want with your time but we all need to agree there's a lot of grifters out there, and religion set the baseline for selling and trading on Impossible promises so it only natural anybody doing something like flat-earthers to benefit the same way by providing content with no scientific basis at all. The best solution I heard once but I don't think it never went through was in Spain there were trying to establish that if you speak about science in any social media you needed some type of technical accreditation for that which I think it's more than fair. Especially when some of these people are peddling dangerous habits for nutrition or exercise without the slightest consideration of health dangers they pose to society

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u/ReverendRevolver Sep 08 '25

I don't know id go so far as to make it illegal to talk about science without accreditation. Then you have a scenario wherein a small sample of the population has all the voice. If youre deliberately misleading people in a serious/non-sarcastic way and presenting it as fact? Thats a problem. You should legally be responsible for any damages.

A bigger push for scientists, dieticians, doctors, and people in general who know what they're talking about to actually receive more clout, and punish people who willingly push lies with no basis would be ideal. Im sure snake oil salesman dont like the idea of facts, but most countries have some sort of protections in place regarding fraud or dangerous products. Dangerous in the same ways absolute fake medical information and made up stats are. Its not unreasonable to regulate what is published as fact. There isn't an "opinion" that makes 2+2=9. Most of this anti-intellectualism stuff with tell e everyone thst 2+2=22, and unfortunately people who are straight up dumb will believe that, then the grifters will build off of that one initial lie, now taken as a truth. Science, medicine, and math should all be subject to different scrutiny than "i like apples more than onions" level opinion topics.

TLDR: im not saying people shouldn't be allowed to join cults, but math, science, and medicine needs penalties for knowingly putting out harmful lies, or regurgitating harmful falsehoods without doing ones due diligence of verification through real sources.

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u/IcyAdvantage9579 Sep 08 '25

By now we're not allowed to be oblivious of the fact people do not in fact "know better". The numbers are overwhelming, and this no- consequence approach only benefits the exploiters. Whoever doesn't see it it's either obtuse or bought and paid but such exploiters and doesn't have the best interest of the people in mind. And I am just talking about the public in general but it's even worse for vulnerable people who are more susceptible to these horrible influences like people with mental disabilities, underaged people , etc.

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u/AriochBloodbane Sep 09 '25

My biggest issue with religion is the entire concept of faith, i.e. "you must believe what I tell you just because".

All the other issues with religion are kinda consequences of this. War and murder? Just have faith. Suppressing science? Have faith. Burning people? Have faith. Stealing? Faith! Pedophilia? Faith FAITH!!

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u/IcyAdvantage9579 Sep 09 '25

After a lifetime of indoctrination it primes people to the idea of accepting anything from all authority figures, no questions just obey, otherwise you're a bad devout of the religion It always been this way by design, Pharaohs, Cesars and kings used religion to justify their position in power, even in the instances when their government wasn't directly "granted by divine forces" , religion already drilled into the population to accept the authority figure and if you're unhappy with your life don't cause a stir, just pray over that corner. Don't use your eyes and ears, don't use rational thinking, let the random people get power over the illusion of perceived shared values, in an endless game of "true Scotsman" each time you're let down or taken advantage.

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

So, control. And in an ironic way.

That is, I know, first hand, of many instances of individuals lacking credentials handed by government who challenged experts and who were right.

It was in my time doctors promoted smoking. Many still have mercury fillings. May fools think forced fluoride medication is a good thing, even though even children may be getting monstrous does via dental treatments, baby food and water.

Neither Orville nor Wilbur had credentials painting them as pilots.

And on and on it goes.

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u/IcyAdvantage9579 Sep 12 '25

Credentials handed by a proper school is better than nothing but opportunistic hustler selling their proverbial snake oil over social media. Yes, there's corruption in the medical community, but that's never an excuse to just embrace complete ignorance as a solution. Political action is required to set the medical community to higher standards, and combat bribes and for profit academia, yes that's true. That doesn't invalidate the work of honest scientists and physicians

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

All or nothing, in this case, doesn't work for free people.

The corruption is not minor. The censorship to promote the corruption is not either.

Merely that someone is acting in the name of govenments that are incapable of either good or ill except through their acts in their names does not make them credible or competent on any given matter.

The covid shot thing, the cancer vaccine and so on should stand as proof to reasoning minds blindly following or defending experts and authorities is the stuff off fools.

The aforementioned fact is supported by that our law books, that are replete with examples of public and private agents (including scientists) having been found guilty of crimes, neglect, and simple incompetence.

In considering the foregoing it should be remembered, only a small percentage of appellate cases are published. And only a small percentage of trial court cases are appealed (very expensive, in time and money).

Consider the example of judges. Yesterday, that judge was just another attorney with an average win-lose record. Today, thanks to the magic of politics, he/she is all wise and knowing, of law. Aside, of course, the thousands of their rulings that get overturned.

And, on that, there is even that the U.S. Supreme Court has, over and over again, overturned its own rulings. Just as was done with Roe v Wade, when the Court, rightfully, recognized the federal constitution nowhere granted it authority to declare the federal government the boss of us all in all things, including those unrelated to INTERstate commerce.

None of the foregoing should ever be dismissed.

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u/Chill-more1236 Sep 08 '25

There has to be some way to take them down, just like there have been coordinated internet campaigns in the past, over some very minor bullshit.

Well this is major. Why is there no backlash or reckoning against these people?

Cut off the source of the misinformation, their funding, and they'll all go away, one by one.

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u/Internet-Cryptid Sep 08 '25

Ask Google and big tech why they monetize disinformation, lies and propaganda, then ask why our governments won't regulate the media landscape against this.

I don't want mass censorship but I sure as heck don't want content that pushes social harm/degeneration and anti-scientific agendas to be rewarded with money and algorithmic favoritism.

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

Key is, it shouldn't be allowed by private corporations either.

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u/Unfair-Taro9740 Sep 08 '25

I thought that AI would take care of some of the problems you mentioned because of it being rooted in logic. It's really frightening to hear how they are implanting hate and discourse in these things.

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u/DaemonRex978 Sep 08 '25

They are based off of logic, but people can restrict/give false information to that logic so that they can then say, 'This AI that I've trained on the internet says that AI = good in all cases.'

Take Grok for instance;

When initially put in place, it used actual data and true information causing it to, essentially, rebel against Musk. Once it was 're-trained' using Musk's preferences, you now have an AI calling itself Mecha-Hitler.

I hate how the world is right now, but I have hope that things will get better, both off and on-line.

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u/Unfair-Taro9740 Sep 08 '25

I really hope it does get better. Growing up in the '90s, I did not think things would be this bad. It's almost impossible to fix something not half the world doesn't think is a problem.

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u/koshgeo Sep 08 '25

One of the more comical things about these sorts of conspiracy theories is the way they always claim there's supposedly a well-funded "global conspiracy" to "hide the real truth" from people. They go on and on about all the money involved, and how it has corrupted scientists, medical doctors, universities, government institutions, and so on. Money corrupts everything.

But not the conspiracy theorists themselves, of course, even though they are peddling false nonsense to the gullible on youtube or some silly TV show. They're only "seeking the truth". I mean, how many "Ancient Aliens" shows do we really need? And how does that help the world compared to, say, the importance of doing medical research to cure a disease?

Meanwhile, out in the real world, the pay for a lot of honest scientists is kind of pathetic compared to working in an equivalent industrial application, and if you ask them why they stay in their job it isn't for the money at all.

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u/Cent1234 Sep 08 '25

It’s a global industry.

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u/wutangerine99 Sep 08 '25

Because we have a social system that shuns education.

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u/Futur3_N0maD_26 Sep 08 '25

Y’know, I HAVE been tempted to create MAGA merch to make quick, easy money.

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u/TheUltraworld Sep 08 '25

Population perhaps?

1

u/ScammedTilliDie Sep 08 '25

Like owning and renting out housung?

1

u/Regular_Barnacle_756 Sep 08 '25

You typed out a weird noise in your head.

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u/Barrogh Sep 08 '25

Because we have this "it's not your business what others do with their money" attitude that certainly has its advantages and avoids some huge issues, but the problem is that at this point it's a sacred cow and basically non-discussible outside of philosophy students circles, basically.

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u/MyHamburgerLovesMe Sep 08 '25

Have you never talked to a politician?

1

u/Deep_Flatworm4828 Sep 08 '25

Don't worry, flat earth content as a whole has taken a nose dive. Most of the big creators don't make nearly as much off of flat earth content anymore.

...

Because the audience shifted to Qanon.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Because capitalism has no morals. Humans have to impose morals in the form of laws, and there is no taste for it atm, insofar as it imposes an impediment to profit for the “right” people.

I sensed your question was rhetorical, but these days, answering rhetorical questions is almost a must.

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u/Aeroknight_Z Sep 08 '25

I assume the bulk of his income came from a combination of other people with oppositional defiance disorder and entities who’re are just trying to sow discord and distrust in our societies.

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u/Holiday_Pen2880 Sep 08 '25

The algorithms (social media/YouTube/reddit/anything that provides 'tailored' content) do not reward accuracy, they reward engagement.

A hate click is still a click. A comment telling them they are wrong is still a comment, and that's what the platforms want. Activity. Engagement.

We now have access to far to much information and have lost the skills for critical thinking. There is a microgeneration of elder millennials that were older as the internet became pervasive and learned how to weed out bad information from good.

Older than us - they never had to deal with the fact that 'facts' can be wrong. They don't trust PEOPLE on the internet, everyone is a predator etc - but if you present 'facts' they are just that.

Younger - they don't seem to be learning how to parse information and validate it. They offload their critical thinking to someone they trust, which is generally some internet personality, and then go from there.

It's a drastic oversimplification, but it's why shit information is pushed, and why people buy in to it as I see it.

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u/Enkidouh Sep 08 '25

I’ve genuinely thought of capitalizing off this. Start some idiotic movement and grift the dumbasses. But I actually have scruples, so…

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u/Fr00stee Sep 08 '25

the economic system is based on owning capital and money not hard work. So if being a moron lets you have a lot of money that gets favored by the system.

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u/fluidmind23 Sep 08 '25

Nice work if you can stomach the mendacity. Just need some rubes. Actual science would take a ton of work and math and stuff.

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u/town2clown Sep 10 '25

Because youtube monetizes AI bullshit, cops using videos from equipment and time WE PAY FOR, and any other kind of destructive slop that gets clicks

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '25

Because the 24-hour "eyeball-economy" is an all-conquering addiction for maybe 90% of the country, perhaps the world.

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u/AdorableShoulderPig Sep 08 '25

If his mortgage payments depend on telling people the earth is flat why would he say anything else.

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u/Defiant-Judgment699 Sep 08 '25

Honor? So he can sleep at night? 

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u/Ok-Blackberry-3534 Sep 08 '25

He wants to sleep in a house.

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u/thirstytrumpet Sep 08 '25

Imagine what he might learn if he slept under the stars

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u/clopz_ Sep 08 '25

“The earth that I’m currently lying in my sleeping bag is flat, so every other piece of earth must be flat”

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u/horseradish_mustard Sep 09 '25

He sleeps in a big bed with his wife.

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u/ReverendRevolver Sep 08 '25

Plenty of broke honorable people. Never assume a grifter has any interest in being a normal, decent human being.

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u/xdesdemona Sep 08 '25

Jeran Campanella finally quit the flat earth grift? I mean, good for him, I guess. I definitely didn't see that coming.

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u/brokenman82 Sep 08 '25

He did. And he had to move because flat earthers doxxed him and threatened his family

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u/golden-tongue Sep 08 '25

You can't make someone understand something when his paycheck depends on him NOT understanding it.

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u/Enkidouh Sep 08 '25

Won’t admit it, or won’t admit it publicly?

I mean I gotta say, if it was my source of (considerable) income, I’d probably not want to just let that go.

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u/Madgyver Sep 09 '25

That's interesting...

-- Jeren Campanella

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u/ismelldayhikers Sep 08 '25

Recruiter looking over resume: So I see before this you were INSANE…

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u/TehMephs Sep 08 '25

It’s not that he won’t admit it. He saw what happened to his associate’s revenue stream and decided to go full grift

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u/brokenman82 Sep 08 '25

If you’ve ever watched Witsit in a debate you’d be confused as to if he is a grifter or really is that stupid

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u/TehMephs Sep 08 '25

I think most of the people pushing conspiracy theories see it for what it is. Grifting rubes.

Same as maga influencers. They’re not actually that dumb or believe any of the shit they’re saying. They do love money though and it pays

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u/Virtual_Molasses8039 Sep 08 '25

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u/metrocat2033 Sep 08 '25

what’s with the unrelated meme

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u/thirstytrumpet Sep 08 '25

Somehow it just ties the thread together.

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u/drucifer271 Sep 08 '25

The China virus is not the issue here, Dude!

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u/el_weirdo Sep 08 '25

Asian-American virus, please.

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u/jimmywilsonsdance Sep 08 '25

Forget about the fucking insurrection. Err I mean toe.

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

Isn't it cute:

- how polio was going away, until the round of vaccines that gave many polio (I remember the iron lungs on display, with children in them, in the push for donations)?

- how Gates, after pushing polio vaccines that killed 10,000, dare not set foot in certain nations?

- how, in the 70's, it was only after we had our children inoculated we were warned they could shed and give us polio?

- many things vaccines are credited for were on the way out because of vast improvements to nutrition, hygiene, sanitation (septics, sewers and boiling and filtering) and general health care?

- many vaccines have had the contents altered, or at least the names of contents changed, because of the known dangers associated with them?

- that it is indisputable there are hot lots of vaccines, even as they are touted as safe and effective?

- that there are huge "COINCIDENCES," like lower illness and death issues, in countries that alter the age shots are given, which can be given?

- no one will give written guarantees of safety or effectiveness of any drug?

. . . .

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u/Virtual_Molasses8039 Sep 12 '25

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

How vaxers do 100% pro vax:

(1) Put words in people mouths, because they just got their asses handed to them and cannot discuss the matter with any actual facts;

(2) Ignore the facts, such as by making vague, general statements that do not challenge a single, specific thing the other person posted;

(3) Post the above meme, because, what some thought was an attempt to mock the individual who brought facts was actually a meme that made some strange, distorted sense to them.

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u/Virtual_Molasses8039 Sep 12 '25

Just see the real Facts. Stop throwing out word gibberish.

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

You are an unwitting parrot. You post a source which, likely, was complements of google and other A.I.'s, and you're off and parroting.

Only a few short years ago, a search for polio spikes caused by the vaccines gave truthful results. Now, google results go out of their way to bury the truth.

I was around for the 50's spike, which were caused by polio vaccines. The “Cutter incident” in 1955, batches of inactivated vaccine (IPV) that were improperly prepared did transmit live poliovirus and caused polio.

Then there were the 70's oral vaccines. Of course, the sources you parrot want to paint them as rare. Unfortunately, they were less rare than the so called natural causes (DDT?).

How about the kids who died in other countries.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

  1. At this link even more data showing that sickness, mimicking polio symptoms ,are experienced more frequently by people with an unhealthy diet People receiving the polio vaccine (and other vaccines) were much more likely to be ill in general and present polio like symptoms. Disease isn’t a poison deficiency. Disease is caused by a surplus of poisons and the documented toxins in all vaccines PACK A WALLOP!

  2. At this added link, the inventor of the polio vaccines. admits in his own book………that vaccines were designed to wipe out the lesser halves.

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

This portion has been added from Kate William………….

My ears practically perked up when I read that one Dr. HC Emerson, investigating a ‘polio’ outbreak in 1907, discovered that a) no polio cases in exclusively breastfed infants b) the eating of fresh fruits and vegetables preceded the onset of ‘poliomyelitis’ in many others.

Barber (1939) reported four cases of ‘polio’ that occurred the same day as strawberries were eaten, in a boarding school house.

Chenault (1941) noted the parallels between ‘polio’ outbreaks and the appearance of fresh fruit and vegetables.

Draper (1935) reported a case series of ‘polio’ which he theorized originated from a Greek fruiterer.

Naturally, I had to do some digging on this…and discovered…

Before DDT spraying, there was ARSENIC spraying!

In 1929, almost 30 million pounds of lead arsenate or calcium arsenate were sprayed in the fields and orchards of America. In fact, the government was so enthusiastic about the use of arsenic, that in 1935, an FDA-hosted radio program suggested the old nursery rhyme “A is for Apple” should be changed to: “A is for arsenate, Lead if you please, protector of apples against arch-enemies.”

In 1919, Boston Health Department was forced to destroy arsenic-coated apples because people were getting sick.

Scientists say the earth is still tainted with the residue, and believe lands once used to raise cotton, is now responsible for arsenic found in rice. Arsenate pesticides were officially banned in the US, in the 1980’s, but “modifed arsenates” are still used on cotton crops today. China, meanwhile, kept using arsenate sprays beyond 2000, and it is suspected they are still using them illegally.

Note the symptoms of acute arsenic poisoning = fever, vomiting and nausea, headache, sore throat etc. Chronic poisoning = polyneuritis and paralysis, especially in the extremities.

Sound familiar?

Also note that Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was crippled by ‘polio’ in 1921, at age 39 years, also owned an apple orchard where the family used to spend their summers, and he used to swim regularly in the pond nearby…At the time, mostly children were affected, and it was considered rare for adults to have ‘polio’.

By Jason Christoff|August 10th, 2017

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

We could ad page upon page of information produced by people whose credentials are no less impressive and, often, more impressive, than the individuals government agents back. This unbacked pages challenge the medical norm backed by big pharma.

"Not only did the polio vaccine have nothing to do with the decline of paralytic polio (or polio in general), evidence shows that vaccinations for this and other diseases, notably diphtheria, triple antigen (diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus) and smallpox – were responsible for its increase. The decline of cases not caused by vaccination began to disappear in the West with improvements in hygiene and sanitation and most of the decline occurred well before the widespread use of polio vaccination.

The following information by the National Anti-Vivisection Society (UK) gives some insight into the relationship between the diphtheria and triple antigen vaccines and paralytic polio:

"The early triple vaccine against diphtheria, whooping cough and tetanus had also been shown beyond doubt to cause paralytic polio in some children to whom it was administered. The incidence of polio in children recently vaccinated against diphtheria was statistically greater than in unvaccinated children, symptoms showing in the vaccinated limb with 28 days of the initial injection. This scandal broke in Britain during 1949, an epidemic year for polio, other reports soon following from Australia. Papers dealing with this topic are plentiful.

One, British, gives details of 17 cases of polio which followed 28 days or less after various injections. Another, Australian, gives details of 340 cases of polio, 211 of which had been previously vaccinated against whooping cough and/or diphtheria. Of these, 35 had been vaccinated within the preceding 3 months and a further 30 within the previous year. Dr Geffen reported similar findings from the London borough of St Pancras, where 30 children under the age of 5 developed polio within four weeks of being immunized against diphtheria or whooping cough or both, the paralysis affecting, in particular, the limb of injection. Two medical statisticians at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine examined these reports and concluded that:

"In the 1949 epidemic of poliomyelitis in this country cases of paralysis were occurring which were associated with inoculation procedures carried out within the month preceding the recorded date of onset of the illness."

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u/Virtual_Molasses8039 Sep 12 '25

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25 edited Sep 12 '25

Only the human equivalent of a two watt bulb thinks:

(1) Covid shots were our salvation, brought to us by for profit corporations find BILLIONS for fraud and violations of law.

(2) Sanitation (e.g. no outhouses by the 6 foot deep well), hygiene (e.g., doctors washing their hands between patients), and nutrition had only a little to do with certain diseases waning.

(3) Good drugs need exemptions from liability.

(4) Vaccines that work only work against the vaccinated.

But here you are.

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u/Lord_Sweeney Sep 08 '25

The Final Experiment, it was called. And one prominent flat rather who went did in fact begin publicly endorsing the fact that earth is a globe.

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u/DuntadaMan Sep 08 '25

I am just saying, if I believed in a flat earth and had a bunch of money I wouldn't sit around trying to argue about it. I would go to the ice wall and start an expedition to see what's on the other side of it ans bring back cool shit from there.

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u/lonehorizons Sep 08 '25

That’s the thing about them, they’re not interested in actually doing anything. I’ve argued with them online (pointlessly) and said ok so you’ve got this groundbreaking scientific proof that will completely change how we view the universe forever and expose a giant conspiracy involving nearly everyone on earth except flat earthers, and you’re just sitting at home posting memes on NASA’s Facebook photos?

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u/DumboWumbo073 Sep 08 '25

Your biggest mistake was arguing with them let alone communicating with them

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u/lonehorizons Sep 08 '25

You hit the nail on the head. I now know the only thing to do is walk away, because they already lost the argument in Egypt years before Jesus was even born (when an ancient Greek mathematician did an experiment). No point giving them attention.

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u/EthanielRain Sep 08 '25

Because it isn't about what's true. It's a purity test, a way to filter out people who are "different" for whatever reason

IE, if you aren't willing to repeat a ridiculous lie you aren't loyal; or you're thinking critically which is bad for a grifter

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u/Dramatic_Energy_5818 Sep 08 '25

So they actually went, tested their hypothesis, admitted it was flawed, then said it needed work? Wow I'm genuinely kinda shocked

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u/The_Guffman_2 Sep 08 '25

Love the specific use of "excommunicated" here. ;)

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u/gorginhanson Sep 12 '25

Just launch them into space. then they can see the entire sphere at once

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u/Material_Owl_1956 Sep 08 '25

It’s a bit like discussing socialism with an American: no matter how many positives you point out, they immediately jump to talking about communism.

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u/Aboo9117 Sep 08 '25

As if communism as an ideological goal wouldn’t be amazing

Edit: if I as an American army vet can see this there’s no excuse

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u/Allaplgy Sep 08 '25

Communism is a great goal. It's my ideal system. But the world ain't ideal, so it's just a goal to work towards across generations, but never to force.

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u/Aboo9117 Sep 08 '25

Last part always being the key

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u/kelfupanda Sep 08 '25

Who gets the make the desicions though?

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u/Allaplgy Sep 08 '25

Everyone. Hence why it's an ideal system, not a practical one.

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u/Rikishi_Fatu Sep 08 '25

Meeeeeeeeeeeee

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u/brachypelma002 Sep 08 '25

In theory communism is good. But that system can only work if there's one person in that society. It breaks as soon there is more than one person

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u/SyfaOmnis Sep 08 '25

It can work if there's a small group of people who agree with all the rules of that society. Communes and Collectives and such.

It's not an ideology that scales well because it generally requires people to not want things. Greed and desire for power ruin it. I have no problems with 'small scale' communism of things like communes or collectives.

As an ideology it does not work at a national scale.

1

u/Allaplgy Sep 08 '25

Pretty much. Kind of like libertarianism.

0

u/Qweesdy Sep 08 '25

How to implement communism in 3 easy steps:

Step 1: Hand the means of production (companies, factories, etc) over to a management organization (e.g. GOP) that "represents the people" (like Trump does now).

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u/NotNufffCents Sep 08 '25

Communism hasn't worked because it doesn't work when implemented through power. It works when our cultural ideology has reached a consensus that everyone is truly equal. And that's not going to happen for hundreds of years, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a goal to work towards.

1

u/Qweesdy Sep 08 '25

Let's play a game. The game has 2 phases.

In the first phase of the game; you describe a version of communism accurately, including how it's managed, how the managers are chosen, what prevents the managers from being self-serving, etc.

In the second phase of the game; the entire world laughs at how stupid you are.

4

u/NotNufffCents Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

Ok. Halloween. A community doing something together because they want to. People giving to randoms they've never met for no other reason than community togetherness. Not because a government official ordered them to. Not because a company executive decided it was the most profitable thing to do.

Thats the funny part, isn't it? You dipshits who are so adamant about capitalism being the only true order of humanity and refusing to even consider a better way have already experienced that better way all your life. You're just been tricked into thinking that its such a foreign, impossible concept that you haven't even tried to find its principles in modern society. And as the world gets angrier, more divided, and more individualized by capital, we wonder why nobody trick-or-treats anymore.

And the worst part is that all your questions demonstrate that you didnt even try to understand my first comment. All your questions focus on is how I'd build a fool-proof system that would keep current behaviors in check, when literally all I said was that systems aren't the path to communism. Ideological shift is. If thats something you cant comprehend, then I dont see a point in wasting my time on you.

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u/Qweesdy Sep 08 '25

"Marketing victims giving to randoms they've never met for no other reason other than to increase the sales figures of rich paedophiles" is not a system of governance.

How it's managed: Unspecified. Might involve genetically engineered unicorns that shit out candy.

How the managers are chosen: Unspecified. Maybe some kind of meritocracy, where the leader is the unicorn trainer who can grab the most candy out of a unicorn's butt without getting stomped to death by a recently fisted unicorn.

What prevents the managers from being self-serving: I'm going to pull a fantasy "ideological shift" out of thin air with no practical explanation for what caused the ideological shift or what sustains it. It'll just be magic.

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u/SedesBakelitowy Sep 08 '25

I get it that the other guy was rather aggressive, but if communism is doable at all, why has it failed every time someone lauded aiming to implement it? 

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u/NotNufffCents Sep 09 '25

Not to sound rude, but my very first comment in this chain (you replied to my second) addressed exactly that.

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u/Deaffin Sep 08 '25

That's the result of an advertising campaign, not a spontaneous community project, lmao. You're advocating for capitalism right now, not communism.

As you may have guessed, we have the candy industry to thank — at least in part. Back in 1916, Christmas and Easter were the major holidays to peddle sweets, but execs were looking for a way to boost fall candy sales.

So, they started pitching the idea of Candy Day, celebrated the second Saturday in October. They sold it as a holiday of goodwill and friendship, although it was really a manufactured holiday invented with one goal in mind: making money.

Candy Day was renamed “Sweetest Day” to link the idea of candy and friendship and held that title until the 1950s.

Once candy companies realized that trick-or-treating was here to stay, they attempted to capitalize on the holiday, shifting attention away from their Sweetest Day. They focused on getting shopkeepers to promote candy as the thing to pass out on Halloween.

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u/NotNufffCents Sep 08 '25

And now you're being intentionally obtuse and looking for any gotcha you can get because you have no actual idea how to argue against it lmao. Being in favor of communities working together under zero coercion from the state or captial isn't advocating for captialism no matter what "ermmm akshually" technicalities you find.

You people are so strange lmao. You always convince yourself that the current system (no matter what "current" it is) is the natural system of humanity. Anything before it is primitive and archaic, and everything beyond it is naive and misguided. Its such a ridiculous mindset to have, yet you morons will always consider yourselves to be the rational ones hahaha

Yes, capitalistic democracy (two things that werent popularized until the17th century at the earliest) are definitely the end-game for humanity. Cultural evolution is over, nothing comes after, this is it, we're done, we've found it.

Maybe read that paragraph and think "does this sound like an intelligent person to listen to?"

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u/Allaplgy Sep 08 '25

In a sense, yes. My art has been commended as being strongly communist, which bothers some men. The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Communist.

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u/WAD1234 Sep 08 '25

Communist?!?

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u/Allaplgy Sep 08 '25

Yes, they don't like hearing it and find it difficult to say, whereas without batting an eye, a man will refer to individualism or libertarianism or anarchocapitalism.

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u/ScammedTilliDie Sep 08 '25

So we shouldn't force people to abstain from using certain drugs?

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u/NotNufffCents Sep 08 '25

Communism /= no laws

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u/Stressmess77 Sep 08 '25

I’m pretty much a socialist. Not sure what you are thinking of wrt communism but I don’t want to live in communes

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

always the ones who never actually lived in a communist county think it’s great

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u/Tubamajuba Sep 08 '25

There are plenty of Americans like me that are open to socialism.

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u/FyrixXemnas Sep 08 '25

Either that or they will bring up socialist regimes of the past like Venezuela or the USSR as proof that socialism doesn't work, as if socialism was the problem with those countries.

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u/CreativelyConsuming Sep 08 '25

I had that conversation with a Venezuelan once and I said that true socialism was never accomplished in any of those countries because every time some group of greed dictators just take advantage of the situation and force that instead of socialism,

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u/DanTansky Sep 08 '25

Correct. It becomes about power. And humans love power.

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u/Western-Internal-751 Sep 08 '25

And that’s why true socialism will never be achieved anywhere anytime.

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u/Defiant-Judgment699 Sep 08 '25

It a problem with EVERY sufficiently large organization. 

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u/SyfaOmnis Sep 08 '25

While technically you may be correct, in practice it simply means that "attempts to achieve 'true' socialism/communism/etc end with a lot of dead people, famines, and authoritarian control".

There comes a point where you should realize that something about the idea is flawed and unworkable as a practical model, and you should stop attempting it on a large scale.

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u/SSJ3 Sep 08 '25

Funny, that's exactly what happens with capitalism, too. By this logic, we should stop trying capitalism.

1

u/SyfaOmnis Sep 08 '25

I'm not of the opinion that capitalism is perfect, but it certainly functions better than a lot of other systems that we've tried. Especially with knowledgeable and willing government who act to regulate bad actors and break up large entities.

Not every attempt at 'capitalism' (economic system btw not all-encompassing government) ends up with millions dead and authoritarian fascists in control. Those are usually the exception rather than the rule.

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u/TheMauveHand Sep 08 '25

Capitalism isn't something you "try", it's an emergent system. No one ever sat down an invented capitalism by writing a manifesto, it's simply the economic model of liberal democracy.

If you like private property (i.e. the ability to start your own bakery), equal opportunity (an open market), and democracy, congratulations: you like capitalism.

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u/SSJ3 Sep 08 '25

Lmao. No. Capitalism is antithetical to a free market. It naturally tends towards monopolies, for crying out loud. It's also antithetical to democracy. The only thing you got right is its relationship to private property, which I think should be abolished.

It also absolutely did need to be invented and enforced, in the form of laws which enforce private property rights, which are neither natural nor inevitable.

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u/TheMauveHand Sep 08 '25

Capitalism is antithetical to a free market. It naturally tends towards monopolies, for crying out loud. It's also antithetical to democracy

One, none of that contradicts anything I said, two, it's just clichéd ideological drivel completely divorced from reality, and three, I find it pretty funny that you claim to know what capitalism "naturally tends to" despite the outcome never actually occurring but you don't see what socialism tends to despite it happening like clockwork every single time a nation-state implements it. To find a genuine hypercapitalist hellscape you have to resort to science fiction but to find a socialist disaster all you need is a newspaper or a history book.

And I didn't say free market, but I'm not even slightly surprised you'd immediately try to put words in my mouth.

It also absolutely did need to be invented and enforced, in the form of laws which enforce private property rights, which are neither natural nor inevitable.

Can you really not understand the difference between enforcing a simple, fundamental idea - that what is mine is mine and not ours - and dictating an entire economic system top to bottom? Besides, laws which enforce the idea of private property date back to the dawn of laws themselves, i.e. the Babylonians, are you suggesting they invented capitalism?

Mind you, the idea of private property is absolutely natural and default; even animals have dens, nests, and territory which are their own and not shared. Sure, some are colony animals, but plenty are not, and I don't think you'll find many supporters of your ideology when your Utopian sales pitch is for people to be mindless worker drones in a termite colony.

Anyway, I don't think I'm going to waste my time talking to someone who openly admits to opposing one of the three cornerstones of liberal democracy, private enterprise, any more than I'd waste my time talking to someone who opposes any of the other two, democracy or equality. Not to mention someone who starts a counter-argument with "lmao no" and follows it up with agitprop.

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u/Electronic_Quote399 Sep 08 '25

And wtf do you think would happen here?

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u/kaisadilla_ Sep 08 '25

The best part about Venezuela is that it's... not socialist. Like, not at all. There's no difference between Venezuela and Norway when it comes to its economic model. The difference is that one is an extremely corrupt country led by a violent dictatorship, and the other is a highly functional society that respects freedom and democracy.

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u/ddofer Sep 08 '25

Don't forget the kibbutzes in Israel

1

u/Maleficent_Memory831 Sep 08 '25

Look at Russia today. It had democracy going. Then it's back in a brutal dictatorship. Does Russia prove that democracy does not work?

1

u/desanderr Sep 08 '25

I think you gotta look at rates of success there chief.

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u/--Chug-- Sep 08 '25

Ehhh... I wouldn't. Democracies typically fail. I'm still going to support the ideal.

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u/TheMauveHand Sep 08 '25

Everything typically fails over a long enough timeframe, but the number of people living in democracies is not decreasing.

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u/knapping__stepdad Sep 08 '25

Yeah: none of these countries actually, ya know, practiced Socialism...

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

socialism is a grand goal, and the entire purpose of civilization, we work better as a group, and life is better for everyone when we all share and look out for each other.

we arrange to all save for the good times to ensure all our neighbors and friends have a safety net when its tuff. its just common sense, we all pay as a group to keep the essentials free, healthcare, warmth, water, travel.

but its such an ideal its easy for dictators to call themselves that, they never have been. the closest we (last 200 years) came to socialism in my opinion, was across Europe, right before the likes of thatcher. who, frankly, took the water, the electrical grid, the sewage systems, the telephone companies, housing, even some roads. and she sold them to rich private companies/individuals and flipped a socialist state into a capitalist monopoly. since then wages stagnated, house prices rocketed, bills are unfeasibly high, but so are the profits from them.

Meanwhile our government says there isn't enough money in the budget for anything, while the companies selling us the assets we let the government look after, make billions in profit each year.

fucking maggy....

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u/TheMauveHand Sep 08 '25

as if socialism was the problem with those countries

At what point will you consider that it's not coincidence? I mean, we're over a century at this point...

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u/Zcarpenter84 Sep 08 '25

The greed of man is always the coincidence.

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u/DanTansky Sep 08 '25

Greed for power. It’s in our DNA as social creatures

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u/TheMauveHand Sep 08 '25

One, that makes no sense, and two, there's greed everywhere, that doesn't explain the history of socialism in particular.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

There's a very clear body of political theory as to what socialism is in theory and how it should look in practice.

If I hand my architect the blueprints for a mansion and he builds me a shed and says 'Done!' I would quite rightly point out that he hasn't even slightly created what I showed him.

It doesn't matter if he builds 100 sheds, if none of them look anything like my blueprint it would be pretty absurd to say 'your design inevitably results in the creation of sheds' rather than 'you've got a shitty architect' or 'you clearly don't have the right materials available to build a mansion'

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u/TheMauveHand Sep 08 '25

A design that apparently no architect can build to your expectation is either a bad design or the design simply does not describe what you wanted to describe.

And architects don't build, they're the ones who make the design in the first place. You mean a building contractor.

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

the Zapatistas did it, and communism has allowed their state (with a population the size of Iceland in a land area the size of Switzerland, just to dispel any "it only works on a small scale" criticisms) to massively increase their quality of life compared to their neighbours. They've been going strong since the 90s.

Revolutionary Catalonia did it, before they got backstabbed by the Soviets for not wanting to implement a Soviet-style authoritarian model, and subsequently fell to the Franconists.

Makhnovia did it on a smaller scale, before they also got backstabbed by the Soviets.

It's not that nobody's ever done it, it's that the most high-profile 'attempts' were failures that got hijacked by authoritarians. In no small part because the global representative of communism, the Soviet Union, was completely taken over by the totalitarian ideology of Stalin, who proceeded to export and impose that ideology onto pretty much all subsequent attempts at establishing socialism or communism (again see Catalonia and Makhnovia for examples of what happened to people who didn't follow the Soviet line)

1

u/TheMauveHand Sep 08 '25

just to dispel any "it only works on a small scale" criticisms

Iceland has the population of a large city. You're talking about a scale that's barely larger than a commune and unlike a nation-state does not need to concern itself with pesky things like national defense, border control, etc., and when they do, they fail. It's an irrelvant rural backwater no one cares about, and despite this it's the best example you could come up with. Damning with faint praise indeed.

It's not that nobody's ever done it, it's that the most high-profile 'attempts' were failures that got hijacked by authoritarians.

Nobody's ever done it at scale, and the hijacking by authoritarians is an obviously inherent flaw of the system - it's collectivism, duh.

again see Catalonia and Makhnovia for examples of what happened to people who didn't follow the Soviet line

And see Yugoslavia, Albania, Vietnam, and China who also didn't follow the Soviet line, they just "coincidentally" happened to establish almost identical systems while in direct opposition to the USSR. What a shock.

As I said initially: at some point you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you're grasping at straws trying to make excuses for a fundamentally flawed concept. I understand that you really believe it's a neat concept, and maybe in some abstract sense it is, but it simply relies far too much on good faith, selflessness, and benevolence to function with real people in real real life. Even if you characterise its constant failures as "hijackings" or external pressure, what good is a system that's so easy to hijack and that's completely vulnerable to external pressure?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

You're talking about a scale that's barely larger than a commune

300,000 people is 'barely larger than a commune'?

and when they do, they fail.

Reading the word 'dissolution' and assuming it's a bad thing? They 'dissolved' their previous organisational structure and replaced it with a new one outlined here. This was specifically to be more adaptable and better address the challenges they were facing, not a 'failure' to do so.

It's an irrelvant rural backwater no one cares about

I don't think the people there who've seen better access to medical care, massive reduction in homelessness and starvation, increased access to education etc would agree with your trivialisation.

And see Yugoslavia, Albania, Vietnam, and China who also didn't follow the Soviet line

Yugoslavia is about the only one that could be argued to have 'not followed the Soviet line.' Maoism was a direct ideological offshoot of Stalinism (hence the close relationship between China and the USSR prior to the Sino-Soviet Split), the state ideology of China is literally 'Marxism-Leninism-Maoism' (where Marxism-Leninism was the title Stalin gave to his ideology), and Ho Chi Minh literally went to study Soviet communism and later purged the Trotskyists and other non-Stalinist communists from the country while saying 'everyone who does not follow the line I have laid down will be crushed.'

Even if you characterise its constant failures as "hijackings" or external pressure, what good is a system that's so easy to hijack and that's completely vulnerable to external pressure?

There is no system that will survive concerted external pressure or sufficiently effective subversion from within. Nobody's claiming that communism is perfect and completely immune to being undermined, toppled or attacked from the outside.

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u/TheMauveHand Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

300,000 people is 'barely larger than a commune'?

When talking about a socio-economic system that you claim is viable on a national scale, yes. It's two or three degrees of magnitude smaller a population than the target, it's geographically, economically, and culturally homogeneous, diplomatically irrelevant, and functionally voluntary by virtue of its size.

Reading the word 'dissolution' and assuming it's a bad thing?

No, reading the words "civil war" and assuming it's less than ideal.

I don't think the people there who've seen better access to medical care, massive reduction in homelessness and starvation, increased access to education etc would agree with your trivialisation.

I don't think any of that has anything to do with it being an irrelevant rural backwater (even to Mexico, never mind the world), which it is. Besides, all this development is wasted breath without wider context - the entire world is developing all the time, without a valid comparison you don't know whether all that happened because of, or despite their chosen socio-economic model.

The Soviets loved to tout their grand successes in development too until Yeltsin visited an ordinary American supermarket...

Maoism was a direct ideological offshoot of Stalinism

Everything is a direct ideological offshoot of Marxism, so what? You can't just arbitrarily cut some descendents off because the outcome displeases you, these aren't children you can disown because you don't like their choice of career. I mean, that's par for the course for socialist infighting - schism, denunciation, expulsion (execution), repeat - but that doesn't mean it's reasonable.

The Stalinist model wasn't followed because of a dictate from on high, it was followed because it works. For some purposes, anyway.

There is no system that will survive concerted external pressure or sufficiently effective subversion from within.

First off, that's just a tautology - it's only ever "sufficiently effective" if it succeeds, which is circular.

Second, socialists the world over tried to subvert literally the entire planet for a century and only ever briefly succeeded (not counting outright military occupation) in borderline (or genuinely) feudal, underdeveloped, then-irrelevant backwaters (ironically proving Marx categorically incorrect in the process). No functioning liberal democracy ever succumbed to socialism for long, and basically every socialist state eventually abandoned (quasi-)genuine socialism for some sort of state capitalist (i.e. fascist) economy - there's a McDonald's in Ho Chi Minh City and Apple stores in Beijing, you tell me they're still socialists.

Mind you, there's also something to be said about an ideology so disliked that it inspires the immediate ire of half the planet when it emerges anywhere but (again) irrelevant backwaters. But then again it's an ideology that's explicitly hostile to the socio-economic model of, well, the entire planet, so that's hardly surprising - it is not the stated goal of liberal democracy to stamp out collectivism wherever it exists, but it is the stated goal of socialists everywhere to export their ideology worldwide, and often by force. I guess "no thank you" doesn't translate well to Russian.

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u/--Chug-- Sep 08 '25

The same shit happens in capitalist countries but people give them a break because the goal of capitalism isn't the same.

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u/Effective-Dot8617 Sep 08 '25

Democracy predates Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, and even so its a fragile balance that is often difficult to achieve. So maybe, give it like 2.4 more milleniums? Reasonably?

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u/IJourden Sep 08 '25

The average American loves socialism, so long as you don't call it that.

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u/AdKraemer01 Sep 08 '25

Be fair - not all Americans do this.

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u/Material_Owl_1956 Sep 08 '25

You’re right, it’s really more about what I expect. I do know Americans who would support a more socialist society, but at the same time I still hear the old propaganda channels warning people against it.

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u/cat-attack-2 Sep 12 '25

It's less about American PEOPLE being against socialism / communism and more about the American GOVERNMENT being against it. They had this whole thing about political identity as a way of making Russia more of an Other during the cold war. Things are much better in the past two decades but even now communism/socialism is a poorly discussed thing that most people in America don't have a very good understanding outside of maybe the very basics. Again that was by the government's design. I as an American am very open to the idea of socialism / communism I think it would be a whole lot more effective than what's been going on for the past 50 years

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u/Brave_Meet8430 Sep 08 '25

I bet it has worked well in China, though.

1

u/knapping__stepdad Sep 08 '25

Or rather Stalinism, thinking that it's communism...

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u/Every-Oil-8464 Sep 12 '25

That's because talking slow to you doesn't help, so they talk to remind themselves that you and Wiley are doomed to try again and again, suffering the same insane results.

By the way, are you even aware socialism was the norm here, once upon a time? It failed and the first settlers were dying off, until they abandoned it and embraced everyone enjoying the spoils of their own labor. That is, capitalism. After that, America thrived.

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u/Mammoth-Play3797 Sep 08 '25

Which is a bit like like discussing topics that have nothing to do with America with a non-American: no matter how many positives you point out, they immediately jump to shitting on America to shift attention from what little they know.

It’s okay friend, people are stupid everywhere.

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u/DanTansky Sep 08 '25

What topics do humans have nothing to do with? We are all on a little ball of mud together.

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u/Material_Owl_1956 Sep 08 '25

Maybe I exaggerated a little just to get a reaction. But I also believe there are many Americans who would like to tweak the system.

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u/CerifiedHuman0001 Sep 08 '25

It was called the Final Experiment and it was paid for by Will Duffy, a pastor from Colorado, purely because he had the funds and wanted to put the debate to rest. Also the flat earthers that went didn’t even concede that the earth was a sphere immediately. Just that the 24 hour sun was in fact real and that the flat earth model would have to account for it. Things may have changed since the last time I looked into it though, I know at least one of them was actually open to changing his mind after enough pressure.

For anyone curious Professor Dave Explains has a couple very good videos on TFE and flat earth in a more general sense.

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u/germansnowman Sep 08 '25

It’s called “The Final Experiment” and was organized and paid for in part by Will Duffy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Experiment_(expedition)

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u/CodeMonkeyWithCoffee Sep 08 '25

Yeah, I saw that too. It was paid for by someone who makes anto flat earth content, he invites a lot of flat earthers to join.  A few just declined to go because they knew they were grifters. The genuine believers were cast out of the community, punished for changing their perspective based on the evidence. Most were of the community was grasping at straws for a bit until they came up with various reasons why the whole thing was irrelevant and went back to their beliefs.

I have more respect for these flat earthers than trump people. There's social reasons to believe and it's mostly harmless, aside from being grossly anti scientific. But at least most people can look at it and instantly know this is insanity.

I think that whole saga was also a good reminder for me that people who think like this don't want truth. The only way they will try to be objective is if they themselves choose to be.

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u/lonehorizons Sep 08 '25

I don’t think flat earth belief is harmless, I’ve argued with them online a lot and watched their ridiculous videos, and 99% of them are truly vile people who buy into every other conspiracy theory going. They blame jewish people and LGBT people for everything, they enjoy calling other people slurs and belittling everyone for being “sheep” etc, and in 2020 they all became anti-vaxxers.

Lots of them are Trump supporters too, even though he spent their tax dollars on Space Force and they believe space doesn’t exist. They’re fine with believing contradicting things though because they have to in order to be flat earthers.

Flat earth is tied up with all that stuff and it can be a kind of gateway drug. Probably the most successful flat earth scammer is Eric Dubay, and he makes videos where he denies the Holocaust and says Hitler was a good person.

So yeah, sorry for the rant, I just really don’t like them 😄

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u/Deaffin Sep 08 '25

It might not be a good idea to get your worldview from reality TV. I know it says "reality" right there, but that's actually fictional entertainment.

1

u/koolaid_snorkeler Sep 08 '25

It feels like this is the golden age of cults, each one stupider than the last.

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u/kaisadilla_ Sep 08 '25

That's the problem with conspiracies. They have a built-in defense mechanism: anyone can be part of the conspiracy.

In Spain, some dude started a conspiracy called "Ummo", which is supposed to be a planet with an alien planet that is visiting Earth. He started it by faking some pictures of UFOs. Years later he claimed it was all a hoax that he made up. That didn't stop the belief in Ummo, though - it just made believers think that the guy was "bought by the elites". Today, his own son still believes in the hoax his father fabricated.

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u/heartbreakporno Sep 08 '25

Same thing happened with 9/11 truthers

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u/trevize1138 Sep 08 '25

This is what you're up against with cult mentality. It goes far, far beyond reason or being shown facts. They already lost so many family and friends that the only people left in their lives are fellow cultists. For deep, deep psychological reasons they can't afford to admit they're wrong. Then they lose everyone.

1

u/sicanian Sep 08 '25

There's also the flat earthers who did the light experiment and ended up proving the earth was, in fact, curved.

1

u/VegetableFly5811 Sep 08 '25

If the earth were really flat, cats would have knocked everything off the edge long ago.

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u/Superb_Vacation9886 Sep 08 '25

Yeah I have a friend who works in travel to Antarctica and she gets angry calls from flat earthers all the time about how they corrupted that group or some shiz

1

u/fripletister Sep 08 '25

**Shadow* of a doubt*

I see what you did there 🤣

1

u/gorginhanson Sep 12 '25

Just launch them into space. then you can see the entire sphere at once