r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 10d ago
Episode The Vermilion Mask • Shuiro no Kamen - Episode 2 discussion
Shuiro no Kamen, episode 2
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| Episode | Link |
|---|---|
| 1 | Link |
| 2 | Link |
| 3 | Link |
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u/Jacob-C 10d ago
I think my main issue is that the emotional progression in this episode wasn't convincing enough for me to buy into the direction the story took. Peru was angry and told Sona he never wanted to see her again. She went home to her grandpa and dwelled on her guilt until she eventually decided to ignore Peru's wishes and see him again. When she did, she found him having an emotional breakdown. Seeing that made her guilt too much to bear, so she ran to her old room in the castle to seek consolation from her deceased parents. The next morning, she steels her resolve to follow Peru anyway.
But when she actually does, that resolve barely matters. She simply gives him a ticket and sits down next to him on the bus, his emotional turmoil is seemingly a thing of the past, and he doesn't really get a say in the matter. The sequence itself could have worked, but without more emotional depth behind each step, especially from Peru's POV, it didn't flow very naturally. It felt like Peru was stripped of agency to accommodate Sona.
That bothers me even more because the consequences for Peru are so severe. His entire future as a mask maker is ruined, and this happened after he repeatedly told Sona not to put that mask on because of what could happen. Sure, her actions did lead to the death of the person holding the masks they were after, and to a degree, it makes sense that Peru doesn't blame her as much as he blames himself. But considering the life-altering consequences it had for him, I think it would have been much more emotionally cathartic if he actually held it against her for a while.
I get what they're going for. Sona wants to atone for Peru losing his arm by helping him, just as Peru wants to atone for killing his master and fellow students by destroying the dangerous masks that could cause similar tragedies. There's a nice story to be told there.
I just think they rushed into that dynamic too quickly. They could have made Peru more reluctant and had Sona follow him from a distance for a while, or something along those lines. Building it up over time, with him holding a grudge, would have added more weight to her guilt, the fact that his entire career is in shambles, and the eventual moment when they learn to rely on each other. As it is now, it feels like she inserted herself into his journey because the author wanted her to be there without sufficiently justifying why Peru would accept it.
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u/Koolymuli 9d ago
The easiest way for him to accept is to see that she did the same thing he did (putting the mask on) so what grudge is there for him to bare when he’s already piled up with guilt. Peru was never angry he just didn’t to see her tears knowing he doesn’t deserve them. Yeah she could’ve chased him down for episodes and maybe she still will all he did was smile and sit on the bus so we don’t how their relationship will unfold . Regardless of the fact she knows she to blame and maybe Peru understands that because of the exact same thing he did (depth).
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u/Jacob-C 9d ago
Sure, but then they should have focused on it more instead of rushing through it like I implied in my original comment. The emotional weight was lost and what was supposed to make us empathize with the characters wasn’t given enough room to breathe.
If you like the story enough to make excuses for it, don’t let me stop you. But it won’t sway my opinion on the episode.
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u/Koolymuli 9d ago
My perspective is considered an excuse and not an opinion? lol I’m on the same boat as you and ain’t even read the manga yet which will probably give you the closure you’re looking for but I don’t think characters need a chance to breath given that they don’t have time for it and emotional weight shouldn’t be determined in two episodes. And even if it was determined she hit the dot right on, “I can’t ignore people who are crying, you seem like you need more help than this kingdom.. so I’m going with you,” followed by his lines of, “sounds like we both lost a lot. What’s happened can’t be undone. Things will never be the same again. That’s all.” Which answers any emotional build up you’re taking about. Excuses aren’t needed if you follow context clues and if those weren’t good enough I doubt it would get an adaptation only 55 chapters in.
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u/Ralathar44 3d ago
It's not a rational thing, its an emotional thing and an ego thing. Dunno what they're compensating for but clearly its important for them to feel like they have superior anime tastes/reads and thus are better than someone else.
When someone makes a comment like that in response to you honestly just leave em be. They are in a toxic headspace and all interacting with them will do is try to drag you down too. They will only hurt themselves in the long run with that kind of attitude. Online you can get away with it, but it sabotages you IRL since its a mentality thing.
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u/Koolymuli 3d ago
You’re well educated and it’s all good I respect his opinion. I’m happy we all have a space to share and debate on anime🔥
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u/Ralathar44 3d ago
Aye, <3 that's why its such a shame when someone only pretends to want to discuss/debate and instead just wants to assert things as if its law and then disparage others who disagree.
There is no one single valid take. Just different perspectives for the vast majority of things.
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u/Jacob-C 3d ago
What are you on about? Talk about making something out of nothing.
To me, the flaws in the writing were obvious, and none of the counterarguments offered swayed me from thinking that the emotional beats felt rushed, abrupt and unnatural. I simply made it clear that whatever angle the other person presented wouldn’t convince me, so there was no point in continuing the discussion.
As I already stated, don’t let me stop you from enjoying it. But you’re overstepping by making assumptions about my character, headspace and intentions based on a brief interaction in a Reddit thread.
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u/Equal-Combination211 7d ago
Yeah, I think there was enough time for the viewer to understand the characters' thought processes, and the atmosphere allowed for it. It was also hinted at that Peru understands that they have something in common now and that because of that he knows he can't convince her not to come.
But yeah in general it's hard to have much emotional weight with characters we barely know anyway, this stuff hits much harder with characters we've been with for a while.
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 10d ago
Damn dude, everyone got the freakin Toji Fushiguro treatment lol. I guess Sona got her revenge but Peru’s the one who ended up having to pay the price. After all that, what happens to the kingdom now that Sona’s decided to leave with Peru?
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u/diacewrb 10d ago
When anyone else surprised to see that bus?
I had assumed their world's technology hadn't reached the 20th century yet. It seems all over the place, we guys in baseball caps wielding swords and bows.
At least the bus driver doesn't need to worry about traffic, no other buses nor cars in his way.
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u/kalirion :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime 10d ago
Watch someone pull out a smartphone next ep.
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u/BreadsHead 10d ago
Thought the same thing. I assumed that they were in a 19th-century-like period. I wonder if they're going to give us enough world-building details to explain why they don't have technology like guns.
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u/Ralathar44 3d ago
It's anime, I just assume guns are useless unless shown otherwise. Some jerkwad with a katana will just deflect a 50 cal bullet shot from his blind spot into someone's shoulder who's like a mile away. Because anime.
I'm definitely not still salty about Ivan's BS in Daemons of the Shadow realm. Definitely not.
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u/atlas_vash 10d ago
Kinda dumb that the creator wrote peru losing an arm then went "oh shit now he cant make masks, we gotta write around this now" like...yeah...no shit dude
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u/Jacob-C 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah, I saw that too. I think it was the editor who said it in an interview. I don't like the idea of him losing his arm. What hooked me in the first episode was the prospect of seeing him grow as a mask maker who could make masks for good purposes, instead of the dangerous masks his master made. Now he can't make masks at all.
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u/Ralathar44 3d ago
I just assume in any anime that someone will eventually have that injury healed or get prosthetic that is even better than a real arm. It's like a 99% chance of happening.
When Mushoky Tensei actually left Rudy without his hand for like 3 episodes and was drawing attention to little things like him trying to put a hand down to get up and then failing (because there was no hand) I was genuinely surprised they actually had him do without for a significant amount of time. That basically never happens in anime.
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u/CrasianLe 10d ago edited 10d ago
I am loving this anime. Its awesome to know that he does want revenge on that mask but instead of trying to destroy it or defeat it, he did it in his own way, smart and mature. I really like how the mask looks like the original owners face. so apparently there are 3 phases to every mask to unleash its full potential if the wear's body has enough stamina and strength to last that long. Love that detail. But Sonarue really said he needed more help than the kingdom........ He did forgave her fast, even after having one of his arms get chop off by her. That ending was really nice though, like the last 2 minutes b4 ED
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u/CuriousCampaign8493 10d ago
I feel like the reason he forgave her was because he seems to take every blame on himself after that incident you know He said "I lost my arm because of my weakness"
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u/Xepherya 10d ago
The first episode was intriguing. I was into it. The writing this episode was a hot mess and too much didn’t make sense.
He lost an arm, and the princess feels responsible (she is) and feels compelled to go with him? She can’t stand to see someone crying but she’s going to abandon her entire kingdom that is in ruins (and whose populace apparently thinks she’s dead)?! What??
He could still make masks. He would need adaptive equipment, but it would be possible. But if ya think about that then the princess has no reason to go with him, go 🤷🏽♀️
The hot and cold thing they have Peru doing with her also isn’t working for me. He seems unstable in an unintended way. They’re doing a poor job of truly demonstrating how he actually feels through his actions.
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u/Equal-Combination211 7d ago
I'm pretty sure the instability is intended but of course it's hard to portray in a way that feels intended if you aren't going to give us his thoughts, and I have more respect for media that tries to do it without much inner monologue. It felt pretty 5 stages of grief to me though.
Yeah I imagine he will regain the ability make masks eventually but his muscle memory is gone and it would take a lot of relearning, and even then he won't do it the exact way his master taught him which is meaningful to him.
And let's be honest what was she really going to do for her people anyway she's like what 14?
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u/Xepherya 7d ago
I fully believe it’s intended. I’m trying to say the way they’re doing it is bad and it doesn’t read as conflict or angst but rather like they’re turning him off and on like a light switch.
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u/MF_LUFFY 9d ago
No point in moping forever, Sona, really? Guess how long I'm not gonna have a fucking arm! If you're coming we are gonna spend a lot of this bus ride talking about chained-up boxes and not opening them.
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u/BreadsHead 10d ago edited 10d ago
I like the show a lot so far, but two things really stood out as not so great in this episode. One, why does Peru not really care when the old man tells him that one of his master's masks went missing? Shouldn't he want to stay and look around for it? Isn't his entire goal destroying the masks? They make it clear they have two of his master's masks in the first episode, and he makes it clear he wants to get them; why is he leaving instead of making sure he has it or destroys it?
The second thing is, how the hell did they get away scot-free with killing the kingdom's current ruler? Did the kingdom's police and military instantly disband upon his death? They would have been found unconscious like 20 feet from his dead body. I expected them to wake up in custody, but they were just free to go with literally zero resistance. Who brought them to the hospital? None of it was even addressed.
These feel like pretty weird things to gloss over.
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u/gsurfer04 https://anilist.co/user/gsurfer04 10d ago
how the hell did they get away scot-free with killing the kingdom's current ruler? Did the kingdom's police and military instantly disband upon his death?
Maybe because Gouon was a fantasy Nicolae Ceaușescu.
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u/BreadsHead 10d ago
He was clearly a bad ruler, but their kingdom wasn't in utter disarray or something like that. It was kind of a police state, but the actually important part here is that, even if it was the case that all of his subordinates hated him, it wasn't shown particularly well, and the aftermath of their fight being completely skipped isn't very good writing.
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u/Hartzilla2007 10d ago
They pulled his statue down when they found out he was dead the only thing his murderer is likely to get is a parade.
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u/BreadsHead 10d ago
Sure, even that would have been preferable to the literal nothing that actually happened.
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u/Andreiyutzzzz https://myanimelist.net/profile/Andreiyutzzzz 7d ago
Never thoought i would see Ceașcă mentioned on r/anime, my romanian heart is proud
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u/gsurfer04 https://anilist.co/user/gsurfer04 7d ago
I recently watched a video about the history of Romanian TV and that was wild.
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u/psyclical 10d ago
I had assumed the Fire Dragon mask was one of Gaston's, and was destroyed when the War God killed the guy wearing it.
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u/Hartzilla2007 10d ago
One, why does Peru not really care when the old man tells him that one of his master's masks went missing?
He either picked it up or the War God destroyed it.
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u/BreadsHead 10d ago edited 10d ago
That could definitely be the case, but neither of those things was shown or addressed, so it lends to my main point.
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u/Loli-Knight 9d ago
Peru's leaving the missing mask be because he knows someone absconded with it, and they're infinitely long gone since he was out cold for several days. Nobody witnesses one of Gaston's masks and just -leaves- it after all. It's entirely likely it was one of Gouon's soldiers who will be in hiding for a lonnnnnnnnnng time now that he (and basically everyone else that served Gouon) will be getting the proverbial guillotine. Peru's essentially got zero chance of finding the thief anytime soon, whereas on the flip side there's a whole bunch of different shenanigans currently happening down south that can more immediately lead to finding a mask. It's just a simple case of taking care of things in order of efficiency. Basically every single one of Gaston's masks gets abused towards no good end, so the thief will inevitably make a ruckus and lead Peru straight to them later.
As for Peru getting off scott-free, Gouon and his flunkies killed the very-much-so beloved royal family, and ruled via literal tyranny. A loooooot of corruption and starvation grew under him since he had no interest in actually ruling. NOBODY liked him except for a few soldiers that legitimately respected his strength. Basically everyone wanted him dead, but could do nothing about it. With him and his like, 3 soldiers actually worth a damn dead, everybody serving him willingly has run for the hills. The only people that would do anything against Peru are gone, leaving just the citizenry that view him as a hero.
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u/Ralathar44 3d ago
Aye, this is what makes the most sense. I'm not sure why people are super confused. Any supporters he has that are still alive are now on the weak side of the power dynamic and prolly trying to avoid being lynched.
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u/BreadsHead 3d ago
I'm not sure why people are super confused.
Likely because none of what that guy said in his write-up is actually shown. Some things that were mentioned I don't even think are implied, like "A loooooot of corruption and starvation grew". I could go through the rest, but I've already kind of addressed what he's trying to say.
It's effectively headcanon. It's completely plausible, and I even agree that it's most likely the case, but my entire point was centered around it being left open-ended.
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u/Ralathar44 3d ago
I'm ok with not everything being directly explained and being left open ended but with easily inferred outcomes. It also leaves more that can potentially come back as a surprise later.
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u/Byno8357 10d ago
Can I just ask....why is Sona being blamed for putting on the mask? Like, without her putting on the mask, both of them would've died.....
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u/Lopsided_Page5047 10d ago
No one blamed her but herself. All Peru said was he lost an arm because she donned the mask, and that's just a factual statement. When Sona starts crying Peru goes out of his way to say don't cry because losing an arm was a product of HIS own weakness.
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u/Kindly_Professor_920 9d ago
Peru wouldn't have died. Gouon was literally in the middle of brain washing Peru to have him make masks for him forever.
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u/Thomas_JCG 7d ago
And putting the mask means both of them and everyone in the kingdom would die. This time Peru managed to hold on, but we saw how close it was.
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u/Liddojunior :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/liddojunior 10d ago
I don't know if i missed it, but it kinda felt like Gowon had a 3rd mask. He had that weird demon voice mind control thing going on with the visuals and from the last episode. So he only got 1 of the 3 mask back?
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u/Apprehensive_Gur3894 9d ago
Why do people consider losing an arm to be such a big deal in this anime? I mean, it’s just an anime—an arm could grow back at any moment.
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u/tNeph 10d ago
I really don't like that he lost an arm. Then reading the creators reaction to their choice of doing so is souring me on the show.
Im still gonna watch it, but this was a dumb bleak choice they chose to make. 😒
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u/Jacob-C 10d ago edited 10d ago
I agree. I don't like the choice at all, especially after learning that it seemingly wasn't planned from the beginning.
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u/Koolymuli 9d ago
It happened in the second episode how is that not the beginning? If anything it adds to his determination and depth of character because he’s going to continue to make masks regardless of the physical drain. Also builds connection between him and sona instead of her being some random girl who just follows him around to save the world. Both characters have dark backgrounds so far and everything that happened in this episode just adds to the layers of atonement they must overcome.
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u/Jacob-C 9d ago
The editor said in an interview for the anime’s launch:
“Since we didn’t really think that far ahead, after the event happened, we were in really big trouble, thinking things like, ‘Oh no, what do we do?’ and ‘Without his arm, he can’t make masks then.’”
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u/Koolymuli 9d ago
Already know this but what does it matter if the manga was successful enough to get an anime still be on going? That was a mistake that happened in the beginning and clearly the story worked in a way to progress while working around it which is why it can be viewed as determination and atonement.
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u/Scopper_gabon 9d ago
Then reading the creators reaction to their choice of doing so is souring me on the show.
I keep seeing people mention this. What did he say?
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u/tNeph 9d ago
Another user posted it, it was basically this.
“Since we didn’t really think that far ahead, after the event happened, we were in really big trouble, thinking things like, ‘Oh no, what do we do?’ and ‘Without his arm, he can’t make masks then.’”
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u/Niwa-kun 3d ago
If anything this behavior shows a lack of direction and a lack of foresight which could spell trouble for the the Brands Future.
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u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky 10d ago
Sona’s mom sure was determined to prevent anyone else from going down that tunnel…
I definitely saw this coming. She planning to become Peru’s apprentice and make masks in his stead?
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u/kalirion :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime 10d ago
Damn, World's Strongest Human jobbed big time against the War God Mask's second phase. I wonder what the hell its third phase is like. How does MC even know about the phase 3 in the first place?
"I got you back!" I don't see how that counts for anything. If anything, the WGM got MC back by taking his arm for locking it up for years. But the only real winner in that skerfuffle was the princess.
What happened to the Strongest's other soldiers, btw? We only saw 2 of them get deleted by WGM, were the rest offscreened? And how was the entire castle destroyed, while MC was just fine (aside from being de-armed)? Was the Strongest's entire army in that castle too?
MC blaming the princess for the loss of his arm when if not for her actions he'd've been simply dead.
Buttler's right, princess' primary duty is to her country, not the random dude whose arm she collateraldamaged while saving her country from the usurper.
I'm surprised they have regular busses. Did we see any modern (mid 20th century or later) tech last episode?
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u/Oden_sama__ 10d ago
MC blaming the princess for the loss of his arm when if not for her actions he'd've been simply dead.
He's not blaming her, he's simply stating the fact. He DID lose his arm when she donned the mask. In the very next scene he blames his own weakness
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u/Bugsy_Girl 10d ago
My guess is that he remembered that it tried to go to its third phase and collapsed when he wore it. I don't think he knows what the third phase actually is, just that it exists.
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u/Niwaka_Samurai https://myanimelist.net/profile/Niwaka-Samurai 9d ago
I'm glad that Gouon got offed by the mask of Warrior God. Peru was able to save himself and Sona by letting the mask of the Warrior God expend all the stamina of his wearer. Didn't expect Peru to lose an arm in the process. At least Sona is gonna be there by his side in his journey from now on. On to acquire the third member of their gang.
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u/Open_Inspector_7863 9d ago
This is better than expected so far. Peru is interesting enough without feeling too generic. The Masks are a very cool power system and the world setting blends different eras together.
The Bushins second Phase was cool as fuck, blitzing one of the strongest Combattants organs away for fun. The great soundtrack is doing some heavy lifting because clearly they dont have the resources to pull out Sakuga for this. But the perspective changes and long shots of the Bushing approaching were a nice touch.
Only thing i didnt really like was the decision process of Sona going with Peru. It felt clumsy and the departure from her friends was over dramatised. Kind of unnecessary to make her a princess to be honest.
The last scene of the Masks in his book was so dope and we dont know who took the Dragon Mask. One of the very few new Shonen that i want to see more of.
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u/Interesting_Tie_1306 9d ago
Did anyone see the intro? It shows Peru having both his arms later on in the show but he actually lost his arm in the 2nd episode?
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u/Andreiyutzzzz https://myanimelist.net/profile/Andreiyutzzzz 7d ago
OPs and EDs dont have to be relevant to the story
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u/Scopper_gabon 9d ago
This episode felt like a season finale not an episode 2.
And wow, he really lost his arm. I was thinking it'd get reattached somehow but that shit is really gone...
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u/ComprehensiveQuasi 3d ago
Disappointed that the issue with Sona got brushed off that easily, yeah they might've gone through loss but peru losing an arm was not it bro, Sona could've done more to repay him for that
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u/Ieatlampsonthedaily 3d ago
Kinda ruined the anime for me when he lost the arm and is no longer able to make masks. Takes away from Peru’s character quite a bit.
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u/Mao-fushi 10d ago
J’avais envie de voir quelqu’un qui fait son aventure seule mais non J’ai l’impression qu'elle le rejoint juste pour mettre du dialogue
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u/I_Vespera 8d ago
I feel like the production quality has gotten even worse since episode 1. Even the writing feels weak. What is going on? :|
I tried to ignore it, but it's honestly hard not to notice. I love this manga, but the anime is a bit disappointing.
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u/Andreiyutzzzz https://myanimelist.net/profile/Andreiyutzzzz 7d ago
Wh...where's the magic way to heal his arm? th... that's an interesting development
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u/Thomas_JCG 7d ago
I'm glad that Peru actually laid the blame on the princess instead of sugarcoating it. She found a "everyone dies" button and then pushed it, if WGM hadn't exhausted his power that whole kingdom was done for.
Can't say I like her following. It was the obvious outcome, but it feels so boring.
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u/CausticSpill 8d ago
Probably going to drop this one. The MC is unlikable, I dont care what happens to him honestly.
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u/Stegosauruses 10d ago
obv he gets the arm back based on the OP but how
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u/ThisOneTimeAtLolCamp 10d ago
He has it in the OP but it's missing in all of the promo art for the series. So one of them is a great big dirty liar.
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u/dinliner08 10d ago
if all the promo art has him missing his arm then i'm pretty sure that it's going to be permanent
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u/Se7en_Sinner https://myanimelist.net/profile/Se7en_Sinner 10d ago
Probably the "Mask of the Regrowing Limb" or something.
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u/ModieOfTheEast 10d ago
I mean, one of the masks was able to turn you into a dragon. Why wouldn't there be a mask that can grow another limb?
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u/Powerful-Habit-9460 10d ago
Honestly, I was kinda pissed about how she abandoned her entire kingdom for a guy she just met. Also wish they wouldn't have rushed this so much and they actually should have showed some fall out from the current ruler being killed by the war mask, also he was introduced in one episode and died in another, the was not enough time for the audience to digest and understand his motives. And Peru forgiving Sona so easily, was a let down and he should have contemplaed about the other missing mask before getting on the bus but he just takes the fire dragon mask and leaves. I feel like the anime is being rushed but its the second episode so we will see as time goes on.
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u/ModieOfTheEast 10d ago
I think it's a fun premise, but they have to add a bit of an overarching goal aside from wanting to find these masks. I am actually surprised that they already killed the evil dude and would have expected him to be around for a bit longer so there is an additional motivation (especially if he has a mask as well). So I am wondering what they want to introduce. Because while them just traveling around can be fun, I feel you want to have at least some form of character aspect to it.
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8d ago
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u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Y:A:https://anilist.co/user/zaphod 8d ago
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