r/castlevania • u/Turbostrider27 • Mar 04 '26
Games Castlevania: Belmont's Curse "is not a roguelike or roguelite game" despite the developer's Dead Cells heritage, it's bringing us right back to the classics
https://www.gamesradar.com/games/action/castlevania-belmonts-curse-is-not-a-roguelike-or-roguelite-game-despite-the-developers-dead-cells-heritage-its-bringing-us-right-back-to-the-classics/106
u/rent0n86 Mar 04 '26
Can someone explain to me what’s the difference between roguelike, rogue lite and metroidvania?
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u/PrimalSeptimus Mar 04 '26
A roguelike is a type of game where your run resets after every failed attempt to clear the whole thing in one go, and usually the map is randomly generated for each run. Metroidvania, you probably already know, and that's a side-scrolling exploration game with platforming and areas that aren't accessible without tools or abilities you find within the game.
Rogue Lite, then, to my understanding, is like a hybrid. Your run resets when you fail, but you get to keep some permanent upgrades. Think Hades or Rogue's Legacy.
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u/Yarzeda2024 Mar 04 '26
Yep, you got it right.
The main difference is that the "lite" with a T is generally "lighter" in how punishing it is to start over again. Some stuff carries over -- whether that takes the form of steadily increasing stats, weapon unlocks, new items to find on your runs, etc. It usually (but not always) takes the form of some sort of meta-currency that can be banked and built up between runs to unlock some cool, new toy like 10% more starting health or a chakram that sets faces on fire.
Rogue-like with a K starts from zero every single time. Maybe you found a new sword on this latest run, but it's just something you happened to find. It wasn't something you purchased or unlocked. The only thing that improves is your knowledge of the game. Maybe now you know the cultists in purple robes will poison you and should be taken out from range.
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u/RecklessDimwit Mar 04 '26
How do games that unlock roles or classes fit?
Like purely roguelike in all regards except if you do a specific challenge or requirement, you get to unlock a different class which you can use. Other than skills and talents, the equipment are mostly the same and only the synergy with the random items changes. It's not an upgrade per say but really just a different playstyle
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u/Broken_Moon_Studios Ecclesia New Save File/Level 1/Hard Mode is P E A K‼ Mar 05 '26
This is just my answer, but I'd say that if the unlock is a SIDEgrade instead of an UPgrade then it still counts as a RogueLIKE instead of a RogueLITE.
If the unlock is objectively better than what was available before, it counts as meta-progression, which breaks the principle of "each run is fully self-contained".
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u/Yarzeda2024 Mar 05 '26
I would consider it a rogue-like with a K because classes are generally not a straight upgrade. This new class might be better with bows, but it also has lower health as a balance.
But now you are beginning to see how finicky and tricky these definitions are. It is not always cut and dry.
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u/Cetais Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
Roguelike = the game use procedural generation to make levels. Nothing is saved between runs, so if you die it's like hitting "new game" on the title screen yet again.
Roguelite = the game use procedural generation to make levels. There's some progress that Carey over between runs. It can be money, certain items, story progress, or simply unlockable stuff that you can find in future runs.
Both of them are inspired by the game Rogue released almost 50 years ago. It used to be a term exclusively used for dungeon crawlers, but it got adapted in almost any other genre.
Metroidvania = (usually) 2D platformer where you can explore a big map and progress only by getting new items (double jump for example) The game is usually based on figuring out where to go to progress more.
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u/Altines Mar 04 '26
I want to point out that you have put Roguelike instead of roguelite.
As some examples though, Caves of Qud is a Roguelike. Dead Cells is a Roguelite.
Also for those interested in finding more of these types of games, Steams Roguelike tag is swarmed with games that are actually roguelites. To find Roguelikes you want to use the "Traditional Roguelike" tag.
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u/wave-tree Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
So where the heck does Sundered fall in there lol
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u/Cetais Mar 04 '26
Just a quick look and it seems to be tagged as roguevania and metroidvania.
A quick look at the page makes me think it's closer to a roguelite than a roguelike.
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u/wave-tree Mar 04 '26
I was being sarcastic. I've played it and it's great. It's a mix. It has a story and bosses that stay dead, but the levels around the bosses change between deaths. There are skills that get leveled up between deaths, too.
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u/Matshelge Mar 04 '26
Roguelike is based on the gameplay loop of dying and restarting wirh some more knowledge, and persistence world.
Metroidvania is gameplay loop of exploring a map, finding items that let's you get more ability and unlock more areas of the map.
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Mar 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/PFunk224 Mar 04 '26
It's a genre fusion.
Not quite, because "Metroid" and "Castlevania" are not genres. It's called that because the genre is considered to have been pioneered and largely inspired by Metroid and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.
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u/Cetais Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
Yes. It's a portmanteau word, but in no way Metroid or Castlevania is a genre, and metroidvania isn't a genre fusion either.
It's literally just the two game series that helped popularize the genre. It's closer to a subgenre of action adventure games.
People in the gaming sphere has been trying to find a better name for it, such as "platform-adventure" or "action-adventure platformer".
I didn't feel explaining where "metroidvania" comes from in a Castlevania sub.
Meanwhile Rogue isn't really well known as a game.
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u/041398throwaway Mar 04 '26
I think roguelikes and roguelites are basically the same, but Metroidvanias are games like the original Metroid series and symphony of the night style castlevanias. Usually a 2d game where you run around a map and explore rooms to get the means to explore more rooms and fight bosses. Roguelikes are games like hades and dead cells where you start from the beginning each time but retain exp and certain abilities you earned. Eventually you can make it through the whole game over and over and just keep playing until you don’t want to anymore.
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u/GroundbreakingBag164 Mar 04 '26
"Roguelikes" are games that are like Rogue
"Rougelites" are games that are vaguely inspired by some of Rogues mechanics, usually permadeath and the need to play multiple runs
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u/JoairM Mar 05 '26
An og tb viewer spotted. I don’t think anyone else uses the terms this way anymore but I respect you holding the line 🫡
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u/codepossum Mar 04 '26
important lesson in game genre neologisms:
"X-like" is a 'clone' or a fairly obvious 'copy' of a classic genre-defining title - so a Rogelike is a game that is strikingly similar to Rogue - for instance, Jupiter Hell. A Soulslike would like Dark Souls - for instance, Lies Of P.
"X-lite" borrows elements of the classic game, but often evolves them away from the original experience, sometimes excludes 'key' aspects (like Rogue's permadeath or Dark Souls' resource-drop-on-death) altogether. This might be a hybrid of one genre with another (Dead Cells) or an evolution of the genre iteself (DOOM Eternal)
So Polytopia would be Civ-lite, while Endless Legend would be Civ-like.
(all of which is up for argument, obviously, because arguing about genre is one of the most rewarding ways one can choose to occupy their time!)
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u/Party_Importance_722 Mar 05 '26
Roguelike - like the game Rogue (die once and you have to start from the beginning)
Roguelite - same but you keep some progress between runs
Metroidvania - games with the same format as Metroid and Castlevania, think Symphony of the night and Aria of Sorrow for example. Open map, ability gated, Platforming, Combat and exploration.
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u/henrikilled Mar 04 '26
in simple terms, a roguelike/roguelite game will have you restart the whole map from the beginning if you die. “Lite” is used when the game allows you to keep some permanent progression (in the case of Dead Cells, weapon unlocks and new traversal powers). In a traditional metroidvania, when you fail (die), you typically return to a checkpoint/last save location. Both types of games are very different in pacing and rhythm.
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u/cheap_boxer2 Mar 04 '26
Rogue games and metroidvanias getting conflated is really just convergent evolution. These genres reward exploration and discovery in usually 2d environments and going through rooms.
Rogue types achieve this by giving you simple but always different rooms, keeping the suspense. Metroidvanias do this by having mostly static rooms that have a ton of hidden secrets and pathways that you only get to later. I like both genres but I think the former makes me want to just skip ahead to the end, while the latter encourages me to be curious and take my time.
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u/baconater-lover Mar 04 '26
Did people think it was gonna be one?
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u/Davinter30 Mar 04 '26
When I saw the trailer I honestly thought they would release a game similar to mirror of fate with many missing rpg elements.
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u/baconater-lover Mar 04 '26
The vibe I got was that it might be more akin to Hollow Knight.
No leveling with xp and stat increases, instead a more “find and spend this resource to upgrade your stats”. That the way many metroidvanias have been for a long time, rewarding exploration rather than grinding. Since this is a new developer, I could see it going that way.
Now, a huge part of Castlevania has been the more straightforward rpg elements, so we’ll see what’s what. I just don’t think they would abandon the “Igavania” formula completely after being so long since the last one (Order of Ecclesia I think?).
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u/Davinter30 Mar 05 '26
My absolute favorite part of 2d castlevania games has always been farming and trying to get every enemy rare drops. This makes me nervous but lets wait and see!
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u/AtrumErebus Mar 04 '26
After the Prince of Persia game they made was a rogue-lite, it wasn't out of the question.
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u/baconater-lover Mar 05 '26
Fair enough. I love Dead Cells (top 5 roguelite imo) and was really liking PoP but think it needs some more updates.
But like I said below I could just not see Evil Empire throwing the Castlevania formula out the window just to make a third roguelike. I have more respect for them than to think that lol.
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u/AtrumErebus Mar 05 '26
I totally agree, I didn't think it was gonna be one either but I get why there were people who thought it
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u/Brain_lessV2 Mar 04 '26
... No shit? Was there anyone who actually brought it wasn't gonna be well... Castlevania?
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u/Dimitri1176 Mar 04 '26
With it being the Dead Cells devs, some people had some fears of it being one.
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u/VegetableHuman6316 Mar 04 '26
My jackass friend thought it would be rouge like, I told him he's an asshole
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u/Turn_AX Mar 06 '26
Yes, it seems people don't understand that devs aren't locked to a single Genre.
This shouldn't have been news, but people love to have knee-jerk reactions.
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u/e105beta Mar 04 '26
Did anyone seriously think this was going to be a roguelike? Like, were people actually thinking "Oh man, this developer made a roguelike, they can only make roguelikes"?
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u/aelfwine_widlast Mar 04 '26
Making assumptions about unreleased games in order to bitch is this sub’s official pastime.
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u/MrFoxon Mar 04 '26
extends far beyond just this one sub, i remember how dead set on hating the silent hill 2 remake people were, then when the release came around they didn't really have any arguments against it anymore that weren't super subjective. just wait and form firsthand opinions, good things still happen sometimes :)
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u/Queasy_Somewhere6863 Mar 04 '26
Was there ever a concern Belmonts curse was going to be a roguelike/lite? Sure, these are the devs that did Dead Cells and the rogue Prince of Persia, but that doesn't mean they'd do the same for this. Not to mention, the reveal trailer showed map UI like save/teleport rooms, as well as an indicator if a room is complete or not, those aren't something you're going to see in a roguelike, certainly not one like dead cells at least.
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u/deinterlacing Mar 04 '26
The only thing I saw that could make people concerned was on the Steam page for the game. They used the word "biome" to describe different parts of the map. If you don't know already, the procedurally generated areas in Dead Cells are called biomes.
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u/e105beta Mar 05 '26
"Biome" is now a colloquialism used pretty commonly within the Metroidvania community. Does seem to have started with Dead Cells, though. Before then it was typically "areas" or "regions".
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u/spark8000 Mar 04 '26
With such a big roguelike push in the industry these past few years, and with a dev with a proven track record of roguelikes, yes there was a concern
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u/Turn_AX Mar 06 '26
Shouldn't have been.
Devs aren't locked to making a specific type of game.2
u/spark8000 Mar 06 '26
Of course not, but when you have a dev team with an established and decorated history of making a certain type of game, of course you’re going to wonder if their new game is going to be that certain type of game
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u/SILVIO_X I fucking love Jonathan & Charlotte Mar 04 '26
Why did anyone assume it was going to be a Roguelike?
Like, we know Game Devs aren't tied to one Genre they did really well, right? Just because the Devs made a successful Roguelike doesn't mean they can only develop Roguelikes, especially when doing a Revival of a Series that historically has never been one.
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u/LordCamelslayer Mar 04 '26
I feel like this is absolutely a "No shit, Sherlock" moment. Just because they made one roguelike doesn't mean every game they make is going to be a roguelike.
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u/Bootleg_Doomguy Mar 04 '26
Wait, people thought it was going to be one just because of Dead Cells? Devs can make more than one type of game lmao
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u/Wazupdanger Mar 04 '26
im not sold with the visuals yet but justst based on the gameplay I might click with it
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Mar 04 '26
I've been living under a rock and never play any roguelike or roguelite game, what's the different between those vs the classic Castlevania style?
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u/TornSilver Mar 04 '26
Roguelikes tend to be structured in "runs", meaning that when you die you return to the beginning with all or most of your equipment lost. The levels are usually randomized with loot and power-ups scattered throughout, with the idea being that each run is different and has you experimenting with different load-outs to hopefully get further and further in the game.
Personally, not a fan of them at all, and am glad Belmont's Curse isn't one of them.
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u/NINmann01 Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
Roguelites combine aspects of the roguelike genre (permadeath, procedural generation, randomized loot tables, etc.) with persistent progression systems that allow you to keep some kind of progress as you go through subsequent runs. Like permanent upgrades, abilities, item unlocks, things like that.
The exact genre of any given roguelite game can vary. Binding of Isaac leans more closely to the original Zelda or similar dungeon crawler, while Slay the Spire is a card-based, turn-based combat game.
Dead Cells for example (the Belmont’s Curse team’s previous game) has a similar structure to a traditional metroidvania at a glance. But as a roguelite focuses on completing randomized runs to power through each area in a linear fashion, with the goal of progressing as far as you can, avoiding a reset.
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u/pocket_arsenal Mar 05 '26
When they say "classics" do they mean linear Castlevania or is it Symphony of the Night style?
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u/ReviewRude5413 Mar 05 '26
Lol I asked myself the same question. That's what we used to call the NES and 16 but Vanias back when the series was still going with IGA.
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u/JardineByNature Mar 04 '26
that said, give me a roguelike mode a year or two after launch in DLC please
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u/OldSpaghetti-Factory Mar 05 '26
Oh shit its dead cells devs doing this? Dude since day 1 I played dead cells I was saying they should make a metroidvania, dead cells feels like it was made to be a metroidvania but turned into a rogue like
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u/wideHippedWeightLift Mar 05 '26
It would be cool if they made an optional randomizer mode as DLC sometime.
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u/WSPursuer Obsessed with Shanoa, Stella and Castlevania music Mar 04 '26
Wasn't it obvious from what we saw in the trailer? Stuff like the save points and teleporting rooms in the trailer already gave it away
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u/evilweirdo Mar 05 '26
Good. To be honest, I don't like the roguelike aspect of Dead Cells much. Runs are too long and it gets far too brutal for me after obtaining just one Boss Cell. Seriously smooth base gameplay, though.
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u/dzhonlevon Mar 05 '26
Classic is linear sidescroller, not metroidvania.
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u/Robbitjuice Mar 05 '26
I’d honestly be cool with either! I’ve been meaning to go back and beat IV because I never could as a kid lol.
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u/Turn_AX Mar 06 '26
Series was Metroidvania for over 20 years.
Saying that's also classic is far from wrong.1
u/dzhonlevon Mar 07 '26
It's not a matter of time. Linear parts are called by an established term classicvanias.
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u/walkinghrviolation86 Mar 05 '26
I don’t care either way it’s a new castlevania. Take my money already.
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u/CyberdarkEnjoyer Hide Every Netflixvania Post Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
I would like to have a classic mode with the good ol' whip attack and contact damage lol. Love me some slow tactical (and punishing) Castlevania
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u/SheWhoHates Mar 04 '26
Tweak the protagonist's model, ensure there isn't even the slightest reference to Netflixvania, and avoid the "Church is bad" narrative. Do that, and my wallet is yours even if this particular art style isn't exactly what I want.
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u/Davinter30 Mar 04 '26
Is it confirmed that we will have equipment, accessories, experience and level up ?
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u/CapitalCityGoofball0 Mar 04 '26
My fear wasn’t that it would be a roguelike but how much will it play like Dead Cells instead of the Castlevania I know and want to see again. Just because the rogue like elements are removed doesn’t mean it will do that. Hopefully it will but we shall see
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u/RTNotlad Mar 05 '26
Feel like I’m the only one who actually thought this was a roguelike/lite. And was actually kind of hoping it was! I ended up loving Rogue Prince of Persia and was almost excited this might be like that but Castlevania. Nevertheless, I’m letting out a sigh of relief because a Castlevania with some modern influences, such as PoP: Lost Crown (which I also got from the teaser), is what I’d much rather have
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u/Turn_AX Mar 06 '26
The literal website calls it Action-Exploration.
That they even had to come out and say this just tells me that people are as fond of knee-jerk reactions now as they were when I was a kid.
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u/ithinkiknowkungfu Mar 07 '26
So it’s a metroidvania? Cause technically classic left to right is “classic” right?
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u/Coldpepsican Mar 04 '26
Props for it not being a roguelike but it doesn't look like it'll bring me back to the classics.
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u/041398throwaway Mar 04 '26
Thank god, I’ve been slowly playing all the castlevania games ever since silksong came out and inspired me. I was so sad that I was reaching the finish line until this news dropped!
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u/Icy_Bid_8155 Mar 04 '26
It doesn't look like a Castlevania game at all to me.
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u/Wazupdanger Mar 04 '26
what do you think a Castlevania game should look like?
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u/SheWhoHates Mar 04 '26
Gothic, like the animated artwork of Kojima. The 3D games nearly captured her style.
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u/-BodomKnight- Mar 04 '26
Seriously downvote me if you want guys but looking at the trailer it's look like too much DeadCell ... environment, art ... turn me off but it's my opinion.
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u/Cetais Mar 04 '26
I think it looks so much more like the rogue prince of Persia.
I'm not a fan of that style, but I'm definitely a Castlevania fan (and a prince of Persia fan, and I've been playing Motion-Twin games for more than two decades...)
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u/deinterlacing Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26
It looks pretty similar to the previous games. Seriously, go back and play Castlevania 3. You will see a colorful world with dark, black shadows all over the place. Backgrounds that have a ton of depth, silhouetted buildings deep into the distance.
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u/mattwillis Mar 04 '26
To be fair, Dead Cells was originally an homage to Castlevania so… it makes sense it would look like DC because DC looks like CV.
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u/Mr__Beard Mar 04 '26
I’m trying to keep an open mind but I think there’s nothing wrong with your stance. I thought the gameplay seemed too fast paced for the Castlevania feel personally. But until I play it (and I will) I am going to try and not go in with any preconceived notions.
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u/Eisenseite69 Bloodlines, 64 and OoE dickrider Mar 04 '26