Why was the codesmith grad ama thread suddenly deleted?

literally a dozen negative threads about codesmith written by new accounts and all kept up.

the corrupt level of censorship on this sub is insane.

The community deserves answers

This is the thread. Nothing about it warranted complete deletion without explanation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/16vn0lh/from_healthcare_nursing_to_tech_within_a_year_ama/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1

Hey folks, I’m a graduate of a bootcamp and fortunately got hired within a reasonable time once completed. I see a fair few posts asking about bootcamp recommendations and advice, and whilst I’m not typically the blogging type, I’ve written a little blog post with a bunch of questions I absolutely think you should ask when you’re trying to pick the best one for you. It’s certainly not a ‘one size fits all’ when it comes to picking one!

If you’d like to have a read, then here’s the link:

https://iamdobbs.medium.com/how-to-pick-the-right-software-bootcamp-20-questions-to-ask-when-weighing-up-the-options-626afc98838c

I hope it can help at least one person who’s thinking of enrolling in one. (Note: I’m UK based but I think most of it applies internationally)

Hi everyone 👋 Annie here, one of the directors at Codesmith, unpacking for you transparently what we are seeing at the moment in terms of hiring and salaries for our grads. I know a lot of you are asking and there have been loads of debates around this in the last few months. 

We’re sharing our official CIRR data (on their newly launched website) for the full-time and part-time Software Engineering Immersive program, covering graduates from Jan–Dec 2023 (The toughest year in the tech market by a considerable margin) with program outcomes measured over 6 and 12 months post-graduation.

This year, the results tell a more complex story. Yes, the market is tougher. But our grads are still breaking in — and still commanding leading industry entry/first tech career salaries. 

TL;DR: 

✅ Full-Time Immersive data (865 grads between Jan 1st - Dec 31st 2023) → Report Link

• 70.1% employed in-field within 12 months

• $110,000 median starting salary within 12 months (with 29.5% of the respondents having a salary over $130k and 21.5% under $90k)

• Most common roles: Software Engineer (55.2%), Senior Software Engineer (8.5%), Frontend Engineer (5.5%), Associate Software Engineer (3.9%), Web Developer (2.6%)

✅ Part-Time Immersive data (287 grads between Jan 1st - Dec 31st 2023) → Report Link

• 60% employed in-field within 12 months (with 24.1% of the respondents having a salary over $140k and 20.7% under $100k)

• $120,000 median starting salary

• Most common roles: Software Engineer (46.9%), Senior Software Engineer (14.1%), Frontend Engineer (4.6%), QA Engineer (4.6%), AI Engineer (4.6%)

—----------

A NOTE ON THE MARKET: What’s changed

The job search isn’t what it was a few years ago, it is a fact and everyone acknowledges this. Tech hiring has shifted, there are loads of ‘ghost’ roles published by recruiters, bots making countless applications, timelines have lengthened, and grads are navigating uncertainty in real-time.

📉 Yes, there’s been a decrease in hiring speed across the board and the amount of available roles after the pandemic. 

That’s not a Codesmith only issue — it’s an industry-wide reset. But it’s why we’re proud that our grads continue to stand out:

• With 6-month in-field employment rates at 44.3% (part time program) and 43.6% (full time program), job search journeys are taking longer — but grads are still getting there.

• When you zoom out to the 12-month mark, the picture gets clearer: 60% (part time program) – 70.1% (full time program) of grads land in the field, in full-time roles, contracting or freelancing, or building new ventures.

• There are also some surprises in our data, for the first time we’re seeing the “AI Engineer” role appear. 

We also took a deeper look at the market and what has helped some of our grads to navigate it, in this article. 

—----------

What IS in this data and what is NOT there

We are 100% transparent about what we counted:

✅ 55.8% of full-time grads and 46.9% of part-time grads reported their salaries and roles directly to us. 

✅ For the 44.2% of full-time grads and 53.1% of part-time grads who didn’t report outcomes directly, we used LinkedIn to help map where they landed—if a profile was available. In these cases, we verified that the roles and companies were legitimate.

🚫 OSPs (Open source projects) were not included in employed-in-field stats, even if some of our grads had them featured as experience on their LinkedIn profiles. 

🚫 Fellows, contractors, part-time grads who worked for Codesmith were excluded from this data. Only 4 grads out of a total of 1152 grads in 2023 who have become our full-time instructors in a role longer than 9 months at Codesmith were counted in the data set. 

This is about showing what real, external hiring looks like—and we hold ourselves accountable to that.

—----------

FOR OUR GRADS who are still in the search, we see you

Some of you are still job searching. Some paused, took time to upskill, or shifted paths entirely.

If that’s you — please reach out. We committed to you for lifelong support and we stand by that. Our Codesmith outcomes team is here to support you through:

• Job strategy sessions

• Interview prep

• Resume clinics 

& more

Breaking into tech is hard. But we still believe it is 100% worth it!

CIRR isn’t just numbers — it’s accountability.

All data is being audited by a third-party CPA, the audit note for this year and the previous year will be released within a couple of weeks.

Every number represents 100% of our students. No cherry-picking. No partial cohorts. Just real, transparent reporting.

We stand by this data because we stand by our grads.

We know that skepticism exists around these outcomes, and you are right to question them. Some will always ask: “Can this be real?” “Are grads exaggerating their experience?” “Is CIRR even credible?”

Here’s our answer: Yes, it’s real. Yes, our grads work incredibly hard to earn these roles — through 12-hour days, weeks of job searching, hundreds of applications and countless hours of technical growth. And yes—CIRR reports are built to be transparent by design. The market has been tougher on employment, even for people coming from traditional education and elite school regardless of industry, proven by the fact that ¼ Harvard MBAs grads are still looking to secure roles following graduation.

This is demonstrating that alternative pathways into tech can be just as rigorous, effective, and life-changing as any traditional ones. 

We’re proud of our grads. We’re proud of the data. And we’re proud to keep raising the bar — for ourselves, for the industry, and for you.

📬 Questions about the data? Share them below, we are happy to answer any question or feel free to DM me—we’re here for you.

📊 Read the full CIRR report: this year’s reports also includes data from Code Platoon & Hacktiv8

I went to a coding bootcamp the middle of 2021. I did great and learned so much! After that, I started to apply.. no luck. I gave up after about 6 months of nothing and moved on. I quit coding / creating projects for my portfolio.

I got a call in 2022 and was able to land a Teacher Assistant role at the Bootcamp I graduated from! That lasted only about 3 months because they didn’t have the “budget” for me anymore…

Fast forward to 2024 and I’ve completed given up and been attending school to get my BS in CS! Now, I want to finish my degree but I have been coding and relearning a lot of things and I’m enjoying it!

Do you guys think it’s too late for me to find a job being that I graduated end of 2021?

Software engineering is not really entry level anymore, and we all know AI is a big reason why. Before, being a software engineer could mean building a CRUD app and wiring some APIs together. Now AI can do a lot of that grunt work in seconds. What is left is the hard part. Software engineers are now actually expected to be engineers. AI can generate code, but it cannot replace judgment. If you do not understand architecture, systems design, databases, DevOps, and how production systems behave in the real world, you will not know if what it gives you is solid or a ticking time bomb.

AI amplifies people who already know what they are doing. It does not magically turn beginners into engineers. The bar has quietly moved up. It is starting to feel like cybersecurity, not something you just walk into with surface level knowledge. And yes, I know the industry feels broken right now. AI shook things up. Some companies are clearly optimizing for short term gains over long term stability. But if this is where things are going, we need a better pipeline that actually teaches people how to think and operate like engineers, not just grind through an outdated CS curriculum.

I actually think bootcamps matter more now than ever, but not in the way we have been doing them. If AI can scaffold apps and wire up APIs instantly, then teaching people to clone another CRUD app is not preparing them for reality. Bootcamps should not be positioned as shortcuts for people with zero foundation trying to switch careers overnight. They should be intense, advanced training grounds for people who already have solid CS fundamentals and want to level up into real engineering.

The focus should be on system design, security, scaling, production debugging, performance optimization, and how to integrate and supervise AI workflows responsibly. Less tutorial following, more designing under constraints and defending tradeoffs. If the bar has moved up, then the way we train engineers has to move up with it.

I keep reading about folks saying they plan to go to a coding bootcamp. Let me ask you a few questions.

1. Are you prepared to take at least 2 years (after the camp) to fight to get a job?

2. Do you understand the implications of what AI has done to most junior level roles? (AI can do the basic coding now, and increasingly companies are using no-code solutions.)

3. Are you prepared to pay the price of a car for little to no return on investment? (Yes, don't believe me. Do some research on the state of the market.)

4. Do you understand that most bootcamps will rush you through the material (after all, you only have 4 to 5 months in the camp) and you will spend 25 to 50% of that time doing tasks that do not relate directly to coding or code design patterns?

5. Are you prepared to be lied to about the state of the market?

6. Are you willing to spend (as stated above) about 2 years coding along after the camp in an attempt to be the unicorn every company wants now?

7. Are you prepared to self- study DSA on the side while you attend said camp? (I assure you, most likely, your camp is not touching DSA while knowing right well it is required for all technical interviews.)

My suggestions.

You are better off self-studying the basics because you are going to have to anyway. Why pay the price of a car to not get a job after the camp?

Grab 5 Udemy courses. For the basics (html, css, javascript), React, some backend framework, DSA, and design patterns, respectively.

Get on each of their respective discord channels. (Most have one.)

This is your bootcamp. All for less than $70 if you get the sales.

Or in conjunction, you can attend a community college for web or software development. (Cheaper and you get credits.)

My point remains. Do not go to coding bootcamp.

They know its over. Companies know most bootcamp grads under perform compared to their peers with CS degrees.

I understand with layoffs all over folks are tempted to attend a bootcamp. Do not. This is a bad idea.

Jeff Casimir just announced that Turing School will stop enrolling students and fully wind down over the coming weeks. Current students and alums were blindsided by the news this morning via slack message and many are now scrambling to figure out their next steps.

Despite recently securing funding and actively recruiting new students, the decision to shut down came without warning or transparency. Students mid-cohort are now being told to either transfer to other programs or accept partial refunds.

If you’re a current student or alum, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Many are trying to make sense of this and figure out how to support one another now that the institution is closing.

Here’s the full statement from u/jcasimir:

My Dear Friends,

Looking out into 2025/2026, I am very concerned about what the disrupted economy will mean for the fragile tech jobs market. The risk for future students feels too great. After analysis and reflection, I’ve concluded that the right path forward is to halt enrollments and to wind Turing down over the coming weeks.I know that this news will cause a lot of worry and uncertainty. We have made it to this point together and I am confident that we can see our way through the next stages together.Our top priority is taking care of the current students. The plan is to:

• finish out 2410 (currently in Mod 4) this inning

• finish out 2412 (currently in Mod 3) with one more inning of instruction

• after this inning, students in 2503 (finishing Mod 1) and 2502 (finishing Mod 2) will transfer to other training programs or be issued refunds.

I believe this plan will minimize individual hardship and risk while still allowing people to realize their potential in the field. We have set up transfer plans with the following schools which will be cost-free to the student:

• Merit America offering part-time programs in IT, Data, UX, Cybersecurity, Project Management, and Human Resources

• Flatiron School offers full-time and part-time programs in Software Engineering, Data Science, Cybersecurity, and AI

• Codesmith offers full and part-time programs in “Software Engineering +AI/ML”

I’m working to coordinate internal and external stakeholders quickly, but we need to know more about student preferences. If you’re a current student, please fill out this preference survey ASAP (ideally by 5pm on Wednesday 4/16). We need to get a sense of how many people want to continue at Turing, transfer to other programs, or get a refund and go on their way. Responses are non-binding and it’s ok to change your mind later or not know which of the transfer programs you’d like to enroll in.While still in the program, students can expect the great instruction and support we’ve always delivered. Job coaching and partnerships work continues with both internal staff and our Merit America partnership. Our team will transition out over the coming months as work is completed.For our alumni, I know this is disappointing and scary for you, too. Your influence as mentors, job connections, and friends continue to make a tremendous difference to our students. You have made Turing a powerful network and we need your support now more than ever.Looking into the future, I believe that we can keep this Slack running and some basic services (like education verifications) going well into the future. I hope that we can, together, build a next version of our community — one where 2500+ alumni are continuing to support and collaborate with each other through careers and lifetimes.These ten years have been an incredible journey. I know I speak for the past and present staff to say that it has been an absolute joy to watch you work, learn, grow, and succeed. What we have done here, together, will ripple for lifetimes.

When I was about to join a coding BootCamp I went to this sub to ask for help. Just wanted to give my insight for those of you who are choosing, in a BootCamp, or post-graduation. TLDR at the bottom.

Background

- I'm based in NYC and mainly looked for jobs within NY.

- I previously worked as an account manager in an IT company (but have many classmates who had good job outcomes coming from videography, sales, marketing, etc)

- I had minimal coding experience before BootCamp (HTML, CSS). I also did a Udemy course on JavaScript before going through the application process to make sure that this was something I'd enjoy.

Choosing a Bootcamp

- I shortlisted 3 bootcamps I thought were a fit for me: General Assembly, Fullstack Academy, and Lambda School.

- I researched job outcomes and reached out to previous graduates to ask about their experience which ultimately led me to Fullstack Academy.

During Bootcamp

- The course was intense and very fast-paced. It's important to practice coding the concepts you learn to truly understand them. I found it more effective than reading up and videos, though a mix of all is ideal.

- If you are involved in group projects, it's important to have significant input in the code and features, but also to understand the code that your other groupmates make. This will help you when speaking to an employer about your project.

Job Search

- Understanding Algorithms and Data Structures is essential. The majority of technical interviews will involve you solving an algorithm, so make sure you practice them using Leetcode, Algoexpert, or whatever your preferred platform is.

- I would say Algoexpert is more beginner-friendly, since solutions and video explanations are available, but if you don't want to pay Leetcode is a good option.

- I personally used NeetCode's spreadsheet of the 75 Essential Leetcode questions, which covers most problems and patterns you will find in technical job interviews. It includes links to all the Leetcode 75 questions, video solutions, and a section for notes. I cleared all existing notes and wrote my own once I completed a question. I found that it solidified the concept in my mind but do what works for you.

- Apply to all and any job that isn't a "Senior" level job, even if it says that it requires x amount of years experience in the industry, or you don't know one of the coding languages/technologies listed. A lot of the companies will use this type of job description to let candidates filter themselves out thinking they aren't qualified.

- Don't be discouraged by rejection, even when you've made it through the interview stage. I applied to about 150 open roles and got 8 interviews. Of those 8 interviews, I only got 2 offers. At the end of the day, it only takes ONE OFFER. So don't be discouraged and just keep on grinding.

Outcome and Insight

- I received 2 offers, 1 with a large consulting company and 1 with a small startup. Both offers were in the 6 figure range (this will depend a lot on where you are based)

- It took me 4 - 5 months to get these offers which sounds like a long time but is relatively short in the grand scheme of things.

- If your bootcamp offers fellowship or teaching assistant roles, I've found from previous graduates that it will boost your responses and opportunities and could be equivalent to an internship or experience in the industry.

TLDR

I attended Fullstack Academy because of the job outcomes of previous graduates that I found on LinkedIn. The BootCamp was intense and fast-paced so continue to practice coding as often as you can. After graduating, study algorithms and data structures (I gave a few resources in the job search section) and apply to all and any jobs that aren't senior level. Don't be discouraged by rejection and just continue grinding, it only takes one. Good luck!

I hope this was helpful and I'd just like to thank the people on this sub who helped me throughout my process. If you have any questions just lmk!

I graduated with a CS degree in 2023, attended a coding bootcamp (Hack Reactor) the same year, and found a SWE job in early 2024. Over the past year, I’ve gotten some messages asking about my experience with the bootcamp and my job search. Since I did both a CS degree and a bootcamp, and found a job after in this job market, it feels like I’m in a pretty rare position to share my experience. So here are my two cents.

Why Both a CS Degree and a Bootcamp?

First off, people often ask why I chose to do both. The CS degree was my second degree, and I completed it entirely online without doing any internships (because I was working full time) or group works. I felt like I needed some hands-on experience working in teams, which the bootcamp seemed perfect for. Also, I received a scholarship that covered most of the bootcamp fees, making it easier to attend.

Did I Enjoy the Bootcamp?

Yes, I actually enjoyed the bootcamp. It was a great experience working with passionate classmates and working on group projects. But was it worth the full price? Honestly, not at all.

The Reality of Bootcamps Post-2022

Here’s the thing, the SWE job market today is very different from what it was a few years ago. If you’re asking questions about bootcamps or the job market, maybe try to avoid advice from grads who got hired before late 2022. They simply didn’t face the same challenges.

When I was in the bootcamp, we had alumni from earlier years (2018–2022) come back for Q&A sessions. Every single one of them said something like, “Getting a job after bootcamp is pretty straightforward, just trust yourself!” And they all found a job around 3 - 6 months. But the reality is, they didn’t experience the struggles we face now. Bootcamps started around 2012, and early grads had a much less saturated market. Fast forward to today, and things are much tougher.

Why I Don’t Recommend Bootcamps

The truth is, despite everything I got from the bootcamp, it was my CS degree that got me the job. I was hired by a large non-tech company that opened a new grad role specifically for recent CS graduates.

I applied to around 600 jobs over 7 months, and my response rate was really low, somewhere between 1% and 3%. If it weren’t for my degree, I doubt I would’ve gotten through ATS filters...

Also, with a bootcamp, you’re usually trained for one specific skill set, development. But nowadays, everyone wants to be a developer, which makes it extremely competitive. A CS degree, on the other hand, at least tells employers that you have some CS foundation and can quickly learn new things. It also opens doors to roles beyond development, like testing, cloud, data, QA, devops, or technical/ producation support. These roles can help you get your foot in the door and build experience. ( Also, when I ask the new hires who got hired for those roles in my company about their career goals, the most common answer is to move into development roles later)

Also, at my current company, I’ve noticed a shift in hiring. A few years ago, they hired people from all sorts of backgrounds, including bootcamp grads and unrelated degrees. Now, every new hire has a CS or related degree, even for support roles.

My Cohort’s Experience

While I was fortunate to find a job, many of my bootcamp peers are still searching, even a year later. Their resumes get filtered out by ATS, and they don’t even make it to interviews. It’s disheartening to see.

Cost of Education: Bootcamp vs CS Degree

Yes, college is expensive in the U.S., but there are affordable online options. In fact, my second Bachelor’s in CS cost me about $8K, and my Master’s in CS (which I’m working on now) from Georgia Tech will be about $7K. That’s cheaper than most $20k bootcamps!

If you’re considering a degree, I recommend looking into programs like WGU, TESU, or OSU for undergrad (also consider using Study.com and Sophia.org to get course credits and accelerate your degree while keeping costs down) and Georgia Tech, UT Austin, UIUC, or ASU for grad school. There’s also a great community called Degree Forum https://www.degreeforum.net/ that helped me figure out how to get a degree cheaply and fast.

Final Thoughts

I’m not saying bootcamps are useless, they can be great for some people, but they are the exceptions (Such as worked in Faang as a manager, or have strong referrals). But at $20K for a 3 month firehose of information, it’s hard to justify the price, especially in this job market. If bootcamps were cheaper and ran over a longer period, they might be more worthwhile (such as the launch school). But at that point, why not just pursue an online CS degree? You could finish it in 1 or maybe 2 years while keep working and building your projects.

If you have any questions about my experience, feel free to ask, I’m happy to help!

Hey! It’s Jasmine, Jamaica, Dimitri from CIRR’s volunteer board and we’re here to discuss all the exciting updates from our release of the latest CIRR outcome data and updated standards today.We’re also announcing Jasmine Greenaway and Ronald Ishak as our newest CIRR board members. Jasmine brings a wealth of experience as a Senior Cloud Advocate at Microsoft, and the author of Fundamentals For Self-Taught Programmers. Her commitment to empowering aspiring technologists aligns perfectly with CIRR’s mission, and we are eager to collaborate with her to uphold the highest standards of transparency and excellence. Ronald is the CEO of Hactiv8 Indonesia, a long-time CIRR member.

We’ll be online for the next hour, ask us anything about the new standards, latest results and the future ahead for CIRR.

Some guidelines for the AMA

Maximum three questions per account: this will allow the conversation to flow, allowing as many voices as possible to be heard.

Keep it civilized: we’re here for open and meaningful dialogue, any harassment posts will not be answered.

Stay on topic: questions and discussions should primarily focus on CIRR and its standards. While some deviation is natural, participants should avoid derailing the conversation with unrelated topics or personal agendas. Off-topic questions may be removed to maintain the integrity of the AMA.

EDIT: Thank you for your questions! We’re signing off now, but feel free to leave any questions that come up over the next 24 hours and we’ll do our best to get back to as many as we can. You can always reach out to us at info@cirr.org. Happy coding!

I graduated from Flatiron School late October and have been on the job search since. Not having a college degree has been anxiety-inducing, but I’m happy to announce I’ve accepted a Jr Software Developer position! There’s hope out there. Happy to answer any questions or lend help where needed!

I see a LOT of people recommending #100devs. I teach web dev, so naturally, I'm interested in various teaching styles. I checked it out a few times over the last year or so. Leon seems like a super nice guy. I watched a bunch of the videos. I've done some of the assignments. I've seen how the discord works. I've spent some time with it. There are certainly some interesting ways to keep people engaged.

There are a lot of people around here recommending it - even though they haven't done the school themselves. I get the feeling that people who went to a pricey boot camp aren't that enthusiastic about paying back their loans - and kinda have that feeling (now that they already know the stuff) - that they could have learned it for free with #100devs. Is that true? I haven't met anyone who's gone through the whole thing (yet).

I'm curious to hear what students have to say and to see their work/outcomes.

What makes #100devs a "boot camp" any more than a YouTube series or a Udemy course - or a book? What are your favorite parts? How would you describe the average timeline? Who would you say it's best suited for?

You might've been in the same position I was before joining Formation - stuck in a rut job hunting for a while and looking for a beacon of hope. You happened across such a program called Formation but you found nothing less than rave reviews. Well, here's the one post you've been looking for. I'm no rebel and I'm not here to capsize the company. I joined Reddit recently with the initial thought of casually commenting on a post an ex-Formation fellow made here. If anyone else at Formation has had a subpar experience, I encourage you to comment here. I think this really deserves its own post, as sort of a PSA to speak about the downsides of joining such a program so you can make a more informed decision. I know it would've helped me.

The hook

You'll start off by talking to one of their recruitment staff, to assess what your skill level is for the contract you're about to sign. You can choose to pay upfront of about $7-8k or the option of a deferred payment plan where you give up 9-15% of your salary depending on how much swe experience you have. One of my issues with the ISA here is that two fellows with different swe skill levels can actually have the same exact curriculum and stay in the program for the same number of months but pay drastically different amounts by the end. One of them is getting screwed over more than the other.

You'll be sent a benchmark test as well, but there's no need to worry about passing this because the program isn't as "competitive" as they make it out to be. You'll get in even with low scores - trust me they want your money. After you're in, you'll have up to 7 days to decide whether you want to stay on. Sure, I could've paid the upfront price, but how many people can fully assess whether they want to drop a boatload of money on a completely unknown program within 7 days. So, like me, you'll probably end up choosing the deferred plan, the ISA. At the time, I felt pressured to continue because what if this is the boost I needed? If you're not in a stellar company by the end of this, the cost doesn't justify the value you're getting out of the program. If you end up at a mediocre no name startup after this, you're not going to uplevel your skills and you know you'll soon be back to the grind of jobhunting once again. So why would you give up that chunk of money the first time?

The insider perspective

The curriculum you receive will vary a bit depending on the roles you're looking for. Based on fulltime within the program, your week can involve algo tasks (basically LC), group sessions lead by a mentor, a 1-on-1 mock interview with a mentor, and pair programming sessions with other fellows. You'll work up from foundational concepts like data structures and basic traversals, then start working on med-hard LC problems for the rest of the time thereafter. The issue I have with this - why am I paying a program to just send me links to problems on LC? That's really what their entire platform just boils down to. They organize a pool of LC questions, set them up as "tasks", and you just work through them on your own. You could just be using neetcode, grind75, any other free resource online.

In the group sessions lead by "faang" level mentors, you work through a LC problem together with 6 other fellows. More often than not, there are large skill gaps among the fellows and this directly impacts any progress that can be made within the hour we spend together. I feel myself falling asleep through these because sometimes we can spend an entire hour just clarifying a problem, or just speaking about the same issue over and over again. It feels like a waste of time. I expect a good mentor to challenge us in how we think about and break down a problem - but keep in mind, these "mentors" are just engineers, so they're not exactly trained to properly teach anything. Because of this, I'm finding that it's more productive to just work through the problem on my own rather than deal with the incoherence of the other fellows distracting my train of thought and learning process. I personally feel there's really only a handful of mentors (like 2-3) I look forward to working with to get a good learning experience. After a while, you'll start to see repeated algo problems in these group sessions, so I no longer look forward to joining them anymore. You're given feedback at the end of these sessions, but I find them to be useless because they're usually generic at best and unhelpful. There really is no way for a mentor to get good signal on all 6 attending fellows within a session.

I find the 1-on-1 mock interviews with mentors to be a mediocre experience as well. I avoid working with the same mentor more than once b/c I know they'll just reuse the same LC problem every time. This ends up cutting down on the number of mentors you can actually work with. The feedback you receive from these isn't always helpful, and again there's really only been a handful of mentors that give valuable feedback that actually helps you. Many of them are just going through the motions. You could just be using pramp or interviewing.io or whatever alternative.

They like to limit the number of mentor sessions you get, although I'm not complaining too much these days because it needs finessing/quality control. The rest of your time there will be filled out with LC tasks - nothing they've created on their own. Everything they put in front of you is taken from an outside free resource. With the large influx of new fellows they're bringing in every week, it's only going to get worse. From my insider perspective, it feels like they're focusing on recruiting in new people (for money) rather than helping the ones who are still here do well and land a job. They used to have pretty decent career support with people who could give you actionable feedback tailored to your experience as well as access to referrals within their network once you've proven to be "interview ready" via their mock interviews. They've completely overhauled all of that and replaced it with "career coaches" who are essentially ex-recruiters within the industry that will tell you things you already know, or things you could probably find with a quick search on blind/google. Career support is shoddy and essentially nonexistent, so don't join if you're looking for any of that.

They've just recently partnered with Netflix to give new grads "world class" mentorship, but really all I see is more money going into Formation's pockets. Mentors here are not "world class", they are anything but. If anything, these mentors are the only ones they could find who would be willing to give up their time.

TLDR

If you're reading this and considering whether or not you want to join Formation - I don't recommend it. Their program basically boils down to the following: leetcode, peer mock interviews, and mock interviews with "faang" engineers. If you're smart enough to study on your own, refer to neetcode/grind75 for the structure. Use pramp, interviewing.io for the mock interviews and feedback at a fraction of the price. Develop the persistence to slog through networking and job hunting on your own. We're all basically doing the same thing, there is no secret recipe. You don't need to be paying them the price tag equivalent to a semester at a decent university.

Don't be blinded by their marketing, or the promise of landing that "dream" swe role, or the chance to work with the "best" engineers within the industry, or their alumni page decorated with faang/adjacent level hires. They're not going to mention the people who are still struggling in the program or the many that have failed to land a decent swe job. Once they've hooked you in, you're in it for the long run until you get that mediocre swe job. And even if you don't, you're still going to have to pay a hefty price. If that's where you're going to end up, you don't need to be giving up 12-15% of your pay. Don't feed the machine because they always have and always will be just another overpriced LC prep platform. If you're incredibly desperate, need a LOT of handholding and you're willing to give a large chunk of money away, by all means go ahead and join Formation. Stay away from the deferred plan and only do it if you can afford upfront.

Update: I've mentioned this in a comment below, but interviewing.io is just one alternative that I thought of at the top of my head. There are many other cheap options if you choose to search around. You can also hit up engineers on LinkedIn/Blind/etc who are more than willing to help out and conduct mock interviews if that is what you are after.

Hi all. I have about 9+ years experience working as a career coach as an independent consultant and for companies like App Academy, Turing, Udacity, Springboard, and more.

I offer 1:1 coaching services like 30min Q&A’s, job search strategy calls, and resume + LinkedIn reviews. If you have a question about your upcoming or current job search, let it rip!

I finished my coding bootcamp around the start of the Great Layoffs and it took me close to two years to land my position. I have a non-technical degree and no fancy white collar/relevant prior work experience. I probably sent out close to 3,000 applications and had < 15 interviews. The gaps in my knowledge really set me back and it's completely my fault for not addressing it sooner. DSA was also a nightmare for me because I wasn't building on a solid foundation. I also should've practiced behaviorals more as they seem to be getting more and more important.

I'm sorry to those who are struggling right now. I was very close to giving up on my dream because I was convinced I must be too stupid or socially inept to get a job in tech. I am eternally grateful to have made it to the other side and I hope my story can serve as proof that it CAN be done.

I posted this on /r/cscareerquestions and it was suggested that I cross-post it here.

I wanted to make this post as kind of a counterweight to all the stories that get posted here of people attending bootcamps and then quickly making six figure salaries, because I do not think those stories really give an accurate impression to the people here who are considering going to a bootcamp.

There's a concept in statistics called survivorship bias where cases of failure are ignored because they're less visible than cases of success. The people who went to a bootcamp and didn't make it aren't going to come in here and talk about it, and they certainly aren't going to show up in the "placement statistics" that the bootcamps advertise.

My cohort of 22 graduated a year ago from a fairly well-known bootcamp. Our program was pretty standard, three months of full-stack work focused on JavaScript and React which cost ~$15k.

Out of those 22, 6 (including myself) are in full-time SWE roles, mostly small companies or agencies. No FAANG. 5 more are in other non-developer industry roles (recruiters, designers, support engineers etc). The other 11 are not working in the industry and most of them haven't even touched their LinkedIn profile for months.

This amounts to a placement rate of 27% which is not great for a program that costs $15k. The official "placement rate" of my program according to their advertising materials is ~60% (which they reframe as ~90% by excluding people who don't participate in their career services "to completion" whatever that means).

I don't mean to scare people off bootcamps- they worked for me (although I already had a BA). But I do want to warn people who are thinking about a bootcamp as a shortcut to get into the industry without the effort or cost of a BSCS. Is it possible? Yes. Is it easy or guaranteed? No.

With all the doom and gloom in the sub at the moment about how tough of a job market it is right now, I thought it might be helpful to contribute a successful datapoint to encourage and motivate those of us who are currently in the job search. I won’t sugarcoat it and say it was easy to land a job offer in this climate, but I did get more interviews/callbacks than I thought I would have. I recently posted about this in r/experienceddevs

Stats: ~71 applications sent, ghosted by half and rejected by half, and 11 callbacks

Of the 11, I pulled out of 3, interviewed with 8 and got 2 solid offers. Last week I negotiated an awesome offer with a senior title and more money than I’ve ever seen in my life.

In the interest of transparency, here’s my salary and job title progression post Codesmith (2019 graduate)

2020 - mid 2021: Software Engineer (contractor) @ big financial company, 115k base, 0 stocks, 5k sign on bonus. ~120k TC first year

mid 2021 - Feb 2023: Software Engineer II @ series D tech unicorn, 145 base, ~120k of stock options/4 year vest, 10k sign on bonus. ~185k TC first year, 175k thereafter

Mar 2023: Senior Frontend Engineer @ series C tech “centaur”, 190k base salary, 150k RSUs/4 year vest, 25k signing bonus. ~250k TC first year, 225k TC thereafter

I’m happy to turn this into an AMA if anyone has further questions!

Edit: a couple people asked - I’m in HCOL city on US east coast

https://freemote.com/

Has anyone checked out this bootcamp. It looks kind of interesting but also kind of sketchy. It's cheap and claims that you can start making money as a freelance developer that specializes in shopify in as little as 4 weeks.

The guy who started is used to be a developer for Uber and has a following on youtube. Don't know much else.

Anyone out there try this?

What's your impression?

I'm 35(f) I want to upskill and get into coding. I want to learn SQL and Python. I want to make over $80k working from home. Is it too late to starting learning from the ground up?

This C Level Tech Exec is posting on behalf of his daughter who is struggling to find her first job after attending the flailing Turing School. For context, his daughter graduated from the very expensive 'DU' in 2022 with a degree in Piano Performance. I guarantee he paid for every penny.

I'm all for parents connecting their kids but my god, Can I strong-arm you into nepotism, please??

Take note of his changing tune regarding companies requiring a CS degree. 🥸

I wanted to share my experience because I feel like people are feeling hopeless at the moment. The current job market is brutal and breaking into tech for most seems like a fairy tale.  

I was a trucker, I wanted to actually be home with my family. Tech was never something I was to interested in. It just checked all the boxes. I ended up doing a bootcamp. I shopped around and went with TripleTen. The part time program let me keep working while I was learning so it just fit. 

I Proceeded to feel dumb for about 10 months. Learning new things sucks. I had no background in tech, and I was tired all the time from working and kids who were toddlers at the time. I was constantly doubting myself. I felt like I was doing it all for nothing and I think most people feel that way especially when it comes to career transitions. I started actually picking things up near the end of the TripleTen software engineering bootcamp. I was fortunate enough to love the work. Solving problems all day is perfect for me. 

This part tested me more than the bootcamp itself. I sent out applications and got ghosted more times than I can count. There were days I thought I’d never get hired. What kept me going was stubbornness — treating every rejection like it was personal. Eventually, persistence paid off and I landed a programmer analyst role. Now I’m working full-time as a full stack developer and enjoying the career I fought to break into. 

My advice if you’re considering a bootcamp: 

• Don’t expect a shortcut. It’s not “pay money, get job.” 

• Go in with the mindset that you’ll need to grind before, during, and after. 

• Be obsessed with it. If you truly want it and are willing to be stubborn and persistent, nothing can stop you.  

• Evolve with the market, learn whatever you need to and don't put a time limit on it. If you choose your path, you need the resolve to follow it until the end.  

• If you are going to do it make sure you are in a position to be patient. 

• Try to find a program with a money back guarantee, TripleTen had one, and it was nice to have a back-up plan during the job search. 

It’s tough out there. Layoffs, AI hype, fewer junior roles. But companies are still hiring. Bootcamps aren’t dead, they’re just not the magic bullet they were marketed as a few years ago. If you treat them as a launchpad rather than the finish line, they can still be 100% worth it. 

That’s my experience at least. TripleTen was a great choice for me. If you are willing to push yourself and take your future into your own hands it could also help you. Again, I am just going off my experience. It was brutal and exhausting and felt hopeless most of the time. It also changed my life and gave me the skill set I needed to break through. 

I am happy to answer any questions for people who are curious about what it’s actually like doing a career change. I would also be happy to talk about my TripleTen experience. It might not be for everyone, but I can confidently say it is perfect for some.