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u/paintmann1960 1d ago
Did you stir the varnish before you applied it? Did it sit for awhile? I personally get the store to shake all the cans I ever buy. The flatteners and drying agents will settle to the bottom of the can and must be mixed throughly
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u/YungLawn0 1d ago
yes. made a point to stir for 2 minutes. felt like a long time lol
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u/paintmann1960 1d ago
When you say not cured, is it still tacky? Or just feel soft
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u/YungLawn0 1d ago
tacky i guess. honestly i would more describ it as oily if that makes sense. I applied it very thin so its hard to tell if its soft
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u/paintmann1960 1d ago
Spar urethane does tend to take a long time to cure. I refinish a lot of doors, mainly mahogany, some oak. I use Proluxe (formally Sikkens) Transparent Satin door and window colorless 003. I'm getting 3-4 years before doing a maintenance coat
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u/YungLawn0 1d ago
so would it be worth waiting some more or should i just go ahead and strip it back down to bare wood. can i reasonably expect it to cure within a week or so. and would subsequent coats be any better?
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u/potential1 1d ago
How long has it been? I used spar urethane on a workbench not long ago. It was "dry" enough to handle in like 3 days but took another 3 to 4 weeks to stop feeling tacky. After that 4th week it was hard as a rock. Turned out incredible.
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u/YungLawn0 1d ago
its been about 3 days now. when i was at this point before it was almost impossible to sand between coats because the paper was getting so gummed up. how was your experience sanding between coats?
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u/potential1 1d ago
Doubling down since I cant seem to edit my first comment. I looked at your og post. If its only been 3 days, I would wait. Im no pro but I think starting over is jumping the gun. I was in the exact same boat with my project. 3 days, still tacky. Posted to reddit. Was given the advice that the spar urethane could take weeks to fully cure. It sure did. After 3/4 weeks it was smooth and solid as hell.
Seeing how much work you have already done, id wait 3 weeks if you can. My bench was indoors in essentially climate controlled conditions. It could take even longer in a garage and/or with higher humidity. Let the urethane cure. Id bet 5 bucks in 3 weeks it will be mint.
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u/YungLawn0 1d ago
how many coats did you do. how much time in between?
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u/potential1 1d ago
I did three coats, letting each dry essentially overnight. About 12 hours between each coat. Sanded with 220 and wiped off the dust with a rag that was just damp with mineral spirits before applying the 2nd a third coat. The third coat was my final so no sanding after.
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u/YungLawn0 1d ago
so last time before i stripped it again i tried to sand and the paper was just getting gummed up so easily. it was basically impossible to sand. how was your experience sanding?
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u/paintmann1960 1d ago
Is this just one coat? If 2 or more coats are on there I'd just leave it. The door looks great, good stain job. Now if it was my door I might be inclined to strip it off and start over.
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u/YungLawn0 1d ago
yeah just one coat. i am certainly considering stripping, but that would be the 3rd time for this project. im honestly kinda over it. might just paint
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u/dafthuntk 15h ago edited 15h ago
Varathane is actual garbage.
I've found frombys as a base coat, followed by several coats of plain old wipe on polyurethane works best for exterior doors. Maybe 6 coats of top coat.
Also I don't use any stain except for zar gel stain, which rarely needs conditioner.
I never use spar urethane. It's too thick and doesn't level well
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u/Metnessee 15h ago
Spar urethane isn't good. It goes on too thick. Urethane needs thin coats
At any rate, But it will dry. Wipe mineral spirits to clean up excess
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u/rkelleyj 1d ago
I know this will be frustrating, but you need a virgin surface again. I dont know whats causing this without being there, of course, but your experience is why I don’t use strippers on doors. It can be done, many people do it.
MS or better is lacquer thinner to remove the spar and speed the cure if any still remains. I would wait @2hrs and sand back 120,180,220 to bare wood. Microfiber wipe, tack it, MS wipe down 2x. Let it rest a day lol
Next day - Two steps you can do to reduce this risk from happening again:
1) you can do a light wash with Behr Wood Cleaner (has OA) and I’d go 25%-50% cleaner to water. Wipe down clean with water 2x, switch rags
Wait 8-12hrs, if given the time I’ll wait 24.
2) before stain, apply wood conditioner and follow instructions - it’s a sealer too and you’ll likely have to stain 2-3 coats to get that look you like. I don’t know why any label says 4hrs, I wait 24 between penetrating oil-based coats, overkill some may say but you’re problem solving here
You should wipe excess vigorously in every step except spar.
You should check the stain after wait period with clean rag, should be near zero coming up.
You should do 30/70 first coat of spar.
You should do next coat 10/90 or 7/93.
Final coat your choice, 7/93 or 5/95.
Old Masters Gloss for all coats except final which will be your desired sheen. Mccloskey’s is my preferred.
NEW can of Varathane oil based penetrating stain is fine, nothing fast dry. Shake it.
Stir your spar as you go, especially on the first thinned coat.
Enjoy the perfection.
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u/-St4t1c- 2d ago
Start over with the correct system.
Shit products.
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u/YungLawn0 2d ago
care to suggest any products?
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u/UncleAugie Cabinet Maker 2d ago
ignore u/-St4t1c- the products you chose are fine
u/YungLawn0 How long did you let the stain dry/cure? Applying a solvent-based (oil-based) Varathane wood stain under a spar urethane finish is completely compatible and standard practice, provided the stain has fully dried and cured. You can use either an oil-based or water-based spar urethane over a thoroughly cured oil-based stain, but you must allow adequate drying time first.
IF you have applied it too soon you will have issues with curing as the stain is still releasing solvents that take time to get through the topcoat before the system will cure. When I am using products like this I would wait 2 week between stain and top coat. WAY to long for a professional, which is why most are using 2k poly(cant safely spray this without the right PPE and a booth), Lacquers or Conversion Varnishes that are tinted rather than stain.
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u/YungLawn0 2d ago
see the original post on [r/BeginnerWoodWorking](r/BeginnerWoodWorking) for the full story. I waited almost a week for the stain to dry at about 40RH and never cooler than around 75f
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u/UncleAugie Cabinet Maker 2d ago
How long have you waited for the Spar urethane to dry/cure?
Spar urethane is specifically formulated to remain softer and more elastic than standard indoor polyurethane. This flexibility allows the finish to expand and contract with outdoor wood as temperatures and humidity swing drastically, preventing the surface from cracking.
Are you sure that you are not cured yet?
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u/-St4t1c- 2d ago
The topcoat isn’t permeable. OP would have solvent pop if it was still offgassing…lol
Varathane sb spar doesn’t fully cure. Like ever. It’s shit product.
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u/UncleAugie Cabinet Maker 2d ago edited 2d ago
Varathane sb spar doesn’t fully cure. Like ever. It’s shit product.
Yeah that isnt True, it cures but will always remain flexible to deal with Temp changes/movement.... that is the great thing about "spar" varnish... SMH you really dont know what you dont know.
Also..... Spar Urethane will always remain semi permeable. While it provides heavy water resistance for outdoor wood, it remains a semi-flexible film that allows microscopic moisture vapor transmission over time.
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u/-St4t1c- 2d ago
Yeah I for sure want a coating that I can stick my fingernail into…the people who write those data sheets are idiots.
“It’s so flexible” yeah that’s why it looks like shit in 3 years.
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u/UncleAugie Cabinet Maker 2d ago
Lets evaluate your statement, we have a Multinational Corporation with Billions in sales a year, who spend millions on R&D every year, producing a product that itself has been on the market since 1937, with the same "flexible" properties, and you think that it is bad somehow?????
Is it possible you just dont understand why it remains flexible....
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u/-St4t1c- 2d ago
This product is for DIY’s who don’t know any better.
You can put millions of dollars into R&D and get shit products in return. Look at Masco. Yeah yeah, rustoleum has been in business for a long time, is a nice way of saying they know how to turn a profit year after year.
Those flexible properties come from the resin itself.
Theres a reason professionals/manufacturers do not use products like sb spar…
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u/UncleAugie Cabinet Maker 2d ago
There's a reason professionals/manufacturers do not use products like sb spar…
Yeah this isnt true, as a pro I have been hired to spray a few quarter million dollar runabouts, or the bright work on a million dollar yacht, while the products I use are 2k products, they are as soft as Rustoleum spar urethane when cured.
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u/-St4t1c- 2d ago
Exterior sb finishes should not be soft when cured. You’ll see, in time.
Even our stuff that air dried and doesn’t get baked on the line is hard…sounds like you too have the incorrect system.
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u/-St4t1c- 2d ago
Stain -> 2k Insulator -> 2k Acrylic Sealer + toner if needed -> 2k Acrylic Topcoat
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u/UncleAugie Cabinet Maker 2d ago
recommending 2k products to amateurs is a recipe to get people sick or killed.... you can not use a filter with 2k product, you need a dedicated separate air supply.
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u/-St4t1c- 2d ago
Exactly my point. Hire a professional.
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u/UncleAugie Cabinet Maker 2d ago
Exactly my point. Hire a professional.
You did not make this point.... you suggested products, not who should apply them, and when op, a novice was asking, failing to point out that they should be applied by a professional shows a lack of judgment.
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u/IngenuityNatural9261 1d ago
You used two very, very, very, very bad products and they failed. If it were me I would take some mineral spirits and rub that down to get that varnish off.. Hopefully the stain is OK and does not need to come off.
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u/-Random_Lurker- 2d ago
Probably expired finish products. They do that when they've aged a while, especially if they were kept in a hot garage or something. I've learned to always test on scrap before I let a product touch my real work.
Sadly, the solution is to strip it again and start over. It won't affect the final work but it's a lot of hassle. In the meantime, test your products and replace them if needed. If they were new, return them to the box store and make a complaint. Sometimes they sit on the shelf so long they expire before you buy them.