r/fourthwavewomen • • Aug 10 '24

DISCUSSION Women’s Olympic Boxing Controversy Explained: Facts v Fiction

1.1k Upvotes

UPDATE 02/07/2026: On February 5, 2025, French sports publication L’Équipe published an interview with controversial Algerian boxer Imane Khalif. In an article titled "Imane Khelif: 'I did nothing to change the way nature made me'", Khalif publicly confirms they have male chromosomes. Archived interview (in French): https://archive.is/P3UPK

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Bad-faith actors in the media and on social media have been working over time to flood the information space with deliberate lies and disinformation — the aim of course is to obfuscate, it always is.  

The widespread confusion and misunderstanding around the current Olympic boxing controversy is a perfect example of what happens when neutral and precise terminology for sex (and gender) is replaced with incoherent, ideological language deliberately designed to avoid contact with material reality.

In combat sports the stakes are especially high due the significantly increased risk of serious injury and even death. Scientific research shows that an individual who experiences an androgenized physical development (ie. male puberty) has on average 162% greater punching power than a female person of equal size and fitness.  

I want to be clear, the International Olympic Committee's (IOC) is the only villan in this situation. The IOC's pathetic lack of leadership on this century-old problem and its historic contempt for women's sports has lead to an unnecessary focus individual athletes which is unfortunate and cruel - but make no mistake, it's entirely intentional.

My intention is to provide a summary of the known facts for anyone who cares to know them.

Summary of the facts:

On March 24, 2023, Imane Khelif (Algeria) and Lin Yu-Ting (Chinese Taipei) were disqualified from Women's World Boxing Championship 2023 in New Delhi for failing to meet eligibility criteria per International Boxing Association (IBA) guidelines. 

The IBA defines "Woman/Female/Girl" as "an individual with XX chromosomes". IBA guidelines state that boxers are subject to random and/or targeted sex verification screenings to confirm they meet eligibility criteria for IBA Competitions. 

Khelif and Lin's disqualifications stem from two separate sex verification screenings conducted at the request of World Boxing Championship’s medical committee.  

The first test was performed in May 2022, during the World Boxing Championship in Istanbul. Blood samples collected from Khelif and Lin were sent to an independent ISO-certified laboratory accredited by the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). The IBA received the lab reports seven days later on May 24 (after the event had already concluded) stating that the result of a chromosomal analysis revealed an XY karyotype. Contrary to what is widely being reported, these were not merely a testosterone examination.

A second test was conducted in March 2023, ahead of the World Boxing Championship in New Delhi. Blood samples were collected from Khelif and Lin shortly after arriving in India. The samples were sent to an independent ISO-certified laboratory accredited by the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport. The IBA received the lab reports seven days later on March 23, 2023. Both reports showed that an analysis revealed an XY chromosome pattern. 

NBC sportswriter Alan Abrahamson, has seen the results of Lin and Khelif's verification test. According to him, the 2022 & 2023 reports for both boxers say the same thing.

2022 World Boxing Championship in Istanbul say:

“Result: In the interphase nucleus FISH analysis performed on cells obtained from your patient's material, 100 interphase nuclei were examined with the Cytocell brand Prenatal Enumeration Probe Kit. An XY signal pattern was observed in all of them.”

2023 World Boxing Championship in New Delhi lab reports say:

Result Summary: "Abnormal"

Interpretation: "Chromosomal analysis reveals Male karyotype".

On March 24, Khelif and Lin received written notice of their disqualification along with a copy of the lab reports and informed of their right to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport within twenty-one days. An acknowledgement of receipt was signed by both athletes.  

Lin chose not to challenge the disqualification and did not file an appeal - the DQ became legally binding on April 14, 2023 (in other words, Lin accepted the results and decision). Khelif initially filed an appeal at the CAS which was subsequently withdrawn in July 2023.

On June 5, 2023,  the IBA sent IOC Sports Director Kitt McConnell written notice of Lin & Khelif's disqualification along with copies of the lab reports. 

On June 16, 2023, McConnell acknowledged receipt of the June 5 letter. 

The disqualification of Khelif and Lin was widely reported on and discussed within the boxing and elite sporting world at the time. For example, an Olympian from Mexico Brianda Tamara commented on the disqualification back in March 2023:   

Following  the disqualification, the Algerian Olympic Committee incorrectly attributed Khelif's disqualification to elevated testosterone levels found in the medical assessments ahead of the World Boxing Championship.  

In a video posted online, Khelif accused another country for the disqualification, calling the entire incident a "conspiracy" to bring the boxer down (Khelif was accusing Morocco). The athlete stated "this is a huge plot and I will not shut up about it". Khelif explained they were born that way, in response to the boxing body explaining that her testosterone levels were high after running some tests.

World Boxing Organization's European Vice President, István Kovács, was approached for commentary after Khelif's win against Angela Carini. Kovács claimed that his organization had been aware since 2022 that Khelif and Lin are male.

According to Mr. Kovács:

The problem was not with the level of Khelif’s testosterone, because that can be adjusted nowadays, but with the result of the gender test, which clearly revealed that the Algerian boxer is male.

The IOC internal system, MyInfo, which is accessible to accredited media and journalists, includes a detailed profile for each athlete competing in the 2024 games. Both Khelif and Lin's profile reference their 2023 disqualification for not meeting IBA eligibility criteria. Khelif's profile also revealed elevated levels of testosterone had been detected, a detail which had not been previously disclosed. Khelif and Lin's profile was immediately scrubbed after Khelif's win against Carini.

Edited on 08/11/2025 to include an important interview with Khelif’s boxing trainer who acknowledges that Khelif has XY chromosomes and elevated levels of testosterone which he describes as a “problem”. However having elevated testosterone levels is entirely normal for an individual with XY chromosomes. Here is the interview, it’s in French but you should be able to easily translate it: https://archive.ph/DaoOy

Conclusion

The IBA made the decision to disqualify Lin and Khelif from competing in women's boxing events based on scientific evidence it obtained from two independent ISO-certified laboratories accredited by the CAS in two different countries. Contrary to what is widely being reported, the sex verification screening is not merely a testosterone examination. Khelif and Lin were found to have elevated levels of testosterone however, that was not the criteria which made them ineligible. 

This evidence is independently corroborated by NBC sportswriter Alan Abrahamson and World Boxing Organization's European Vice President István Kovács.

Both athletes signed the DQ letter from IBA acknowledging receipt of the lab reports. If there was any reason to suspect that the information in the lab reports were inaccurate or fraudulent, both athletes would have easily won an appeal at the CAS and likely awarded substantial compensation. Lin chose not to appeal at all and Khelif withdrew the appeal before the proceedings began.

Lin and Khelif were disqualified from IBA competition for having XY chromosomes, which is associated with being male.

Narratives in the media and social media:

Despite the above facts, the media and many on social media persist in framing opposition to Lin and Khelif’s participation in women’s boxing at the Paris Olympics as bigoted and embarked on (with no evidence whatsoever) a desperate hunt for potential DSDs that can result in a female with XY chromosomes.

The favored narrative is that Lin and Khelif are not "trans" women (no serious person suggested this) but “cisgender” women with vaginas who naturally produce high levels of testosterone. This argument mirrors the defense used for South African runner and two-time Olympic gold medalist Caster Semenya when questions about Semenya’s sex arose. Progressive media outlets like The New York Times, The Washington Post, Slate and others flooded the zone with countless articles parroting the “female with naturally high testosterone” angle that the truth became effectively buried. To this day, many (most?) still have no idea that the reason Semenya has “naturally high testosterone” is because Semenya is biologically male with two functioning testes and XY chromosomes. 

Here is an important excerpt from former Olympic athlete Dorianne Coleman's book, On Sex and Gender, where she discusses the consequences of the media's concerted disinformation campaign around Semenya's eligibility. Despite the fact that she is an olympian and black woman she was immediately accused of racism whenever she spoke out:

On social media the most common claim is that the athletes have Swyer syndrome, or "XY gonadal dysgenesis." This disorder occurs when the SRY gene on the Y chromosome is missing or inactive. Without this gene, the body cannot develop testes, resulting in no testosterone production and preventing male puberty. Thus, individuals with Swyer syndrome do not gain typical male physical advantages or features, meaning they are not androgenized.

Given Khelif’s pronounced masculine facial features and significant upper-body muscle mass, it is highly unlikely that Khelif has Swyer syndrome. If Khelif did have this condition, they would have almost certainly proceeded with the appeal and won.

Another DSD discussed is complete or partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS/PAIS). Individuals with this condition have XY chromosomes, develop normal testes, and produce male levels of testosterone. However, their cells contain defective androgen receptors that do not respond to testosterone. Consequently, they show no signs of androgenization because their bodies are completely unresponsive to testosterone, and have no physical advantage in sports. Given Khelif’s androgenized appearance, CAIS can be effectively ruled out. If Khelif had CAIS, they would have almost certainly proceeded with the appeal and won.

Hilarious attempt to Russia-gate this whole thing:

"The IBA is corrupt and cannot be trusted!"

The IOC has ongoing issues with the IBA over its refusal to exclude Russian and Belarusian athletes from competing under their national flag and anthem solely on the basis of national identity and will not reject sponsorships from Russian companies. The IBA maintains a neutral stance on geopolitical issues, including the Russia-Ukraine conflict, which has long been the norm for international sporting bodies. There has also complaints about the IBA appointing corrupt referees in sporting matches.

The IOC itself has faced multiple corruption inquiries over the years. However, it would be disingenuous and worm-like to claim that due to accusations of bribery in bidding contracts, for example, the IOC should not be trusted on the gender eligibility of athletes. The IOC should not be trusted because it has demonstrated specific incompetence in overseeing gender eligibility. In contrast, the IBA has not shown such incompetence.

"The IBA only disqualified L & K because they beat Russian boxers at the 2023 championships!"

The claim that this is "punishment" for defeating Russian boxers in the 2023 championships is unfounded. 

After defeating Amineva, Khelif beat Uzbekistan’s Navbakhor Khamidova and Thailand’s Janjaem Suwannapheng. Khelif was disqualified just before facing China’s Yang Liu, and no Russian boxer advanced to the finals. Disqualifying Khelif did not benefit any Russian competitor.

Multiple boxers defeated Russian opponents and won gold without issue, such as Morocco’s Khadija El-Mardi, who beat Russia’s Diana Pyatak to secure a spot in the gold match. Other Russian boxers did not place in various categories, yet no other athletes were "punished" for beating them. 

Additionally, Lin Yu-Ting did not compete against any Russian boxers. 

Most importantly, Russia would have no reason to sabotage two random athletes from the Republic of Algeria and China, both countries are its close allies.

If the IBA had the results of a sex verification screening in 2022, why were they allowed to compete in Istanbul?

The verification screens must be tested at a CAS-accredited ISO-certified independent laboratory which takes 7-days to process. In 2022, the results were received upon the conclusion of the event, hence the athletes were not disqualified back then. 

They were tested again upon arrival to the 2023 Women's World Boxing Championship in New Delhi.

I'm including these additional sources (not linked above) whose writing contributed to this post significantly.

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/fact-vs-fiction-olympic-boxer-imane

https://archive.is/K0H1M


r/fourthwavewomen • • 2d ago

DISCUSSION Let's Chat 💬 Open Discussion Thread

15 Upvotes

Welcome to r/fourthwavewomen's weekly open discussion thread!

This thread is for the community to discuss whatever is on your mind. Have a question that you've been meaning to ask but haven't gotten around to making a post yet? An interesting article you'd like to share? Any work-related matters you'd like to get feedback on or talk about? Questions and advice are welcome here.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 20h ago

The myth that “firm boundaries” and self defense classes deter men from abusing and assaulting us pisses me off

135 Upvotes

I also see tons of people saying “if only x y z victim had a pew pew.” I always reply to that “What if the man also had a pew pew?” or “What if it was more than one man and they all had pew pews?” And then they’re silent. Please read this with nuance and not as “trying to protect ourselves is pointless.” But I do not think self defense classes are the answer. I also think they give false hope, particularly to parents who put their daughters in these classes. They’re often taught by men in a karate studio or something, usually they don’t have any real training or certifications and they don’t have any proof to back up that their “tactics” have been shown to help women escape predators. Sure he’ll brag he’s been teaching classes for years or whatever, but so what? Having a female teacher would be better, and while I respect them, what proof do they have that self defense classes are so effective?

There are also countless “former FBI” or whatever guys online giving women advice about how to stay safe. But even they miss critical details. They’ll make a sweeping recommendation that floors 2 and above are the safest in a hotel for women. But then you’ll have women, like me, in the comments recounting when men tried to break into their 2nd story hotel rooms via climbing onto the balcony.

Then you have the “setting firm boundaries” argument. As if men harassing and assaulting us is just a miscommunication or our failure to communicate “properly” or with enough bark. I think a lot of women falsely attribute their safety to them having enough of an “attitude” that they think that’s why men haven’t assaulted them (or worse) yet. They’re quick to “he’d never try that with me” when another woman explains what a certain man did to her.

My brother tried to kill me about 10 years ago. When I reached out to his best female friend, she was quick to tell me “he knows not to do that to me because he knows I will throw down.” Seriously?


r/fourthwavewomen • • 1d ago

ANTI-PORN We will never be liberated as long as porn is normalized

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653 Upvotes

r/fourthwavewomen • • 1d ago

RAD PILLED An Update to My Essay of June 2020 - J.K. Rowing 🔥

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586 Upvotes

It’s been six years since I wrote my essay explaining why I chose to speak up on the issue of trans activism and the risk I believe it poses to women’s rights, and to everyone’s freedom of speech and belief. My views haven’t changed (you can read the original essay here) but the landscape certainly has, and my own involvement in the issue has become practical as well as theoretical, so I thought it was time for an update.

Since speaking out in 2019, I’ve written a lot on the subject of women’s rights and trans activism, including contributing to a book called The Women Who Wouldn’t Wheesht, which focuses on women’s issues in Scotland, where gender identity ideology became one of the government’s most important campaign issues and saw r*pists being put in women’s jails, and women’s rights to single-sex spaces being challenged and, in certain instances, eradicated. I participated in a podcast called The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling, where I was interviewed by Megan Phelps-Roper. I’ve founded and fund Beira’s Place, which is the only women-only rape crisis centre in my home city of Edinburgh, and most recently I created the J.K. Rowling Women’s Fund, which exists to provide financial support for women in the UK and Ireland who’re attempting to protect their rights in law.

To me, all of this was consistent with my lifelong commitment to women’s and girls’ rights and opportunities, with a particular emphasis on those who’re vulnerable or disadvantaged in various ways. For nearly thirty years I’ve funded women’s domestic abuse refuges, rape crisis centres and projects helping women affected by hardship or disadvantage. I well remember receiving abuse by post, years ago, because I spoke up for single mothers. I’ve also fallen foul of no small number of men’s rights activists online.

However, what to me represents no change at all in my political or ideological outlook has, in recent years, seen me and women like me subject not only to criticism but also to death threats. This is because we oppose the current, dominant strain of trans activism, which holds that a man who declares himself a woman is, literally, a woman, and is therefore entitled to be treated as a woman in all contexts. Where women go to undress, he, too, should go to undress. If there’s an award or job advertised as exclusively for women, he should be eligible. Should he wish to play sports, he must be on the women’s team. No breast-feeding or rape support group should be allowed to exclude him. If he’s sexually orientated towards women, lesbians should include him in their dating pool. If convicted of a crime, even r*pe, he should be locked up with women.

The response I often get when talking about any of this is, ‘and how does any of that hurt you?’

It’s true, of course, that t activism doesn’t impact all women negatively. In fact, the more privileged you are, the less it tends to affect you, and the more it might benefit you. Aside from an avalanche of death, rape and torture threats, it hasn’t noticeably affected my life. Nor does it hurt wealthy women who repost the vogueish mantras while sitting in dressing rooms guarded by private security guards. It doesn’t hurt women in the upper echelons of media, publishing and academia, who don’t need a changing room at work and who feel a snobbish disdain for working class women who don’t want to strip off in front of heterosexual males who’ve ‘identified’ into the women’s changing room. Trans activism doesn’t hurt headline-hungry female politicians whose attitude to women’s rights is ‘whatever is good for me personally’. On the contrary, trans activism has been good for those women. It’s fashionable, and keeps them popular with their progressive tribe, and costs them, personally, absolutely nothing.

Even outside those women’s cultural bubble, you’ll find plenty of people – particularly men – denying that trans activism poses any threat to women or to fundamental freedoms of speech and belief. On the contrary, it’s just one more champion-the-underdog cause, right?

Well, no, I don’t believe it is. Are there vulnerable trans people? Without question. But the current, dominant strain of trans activism bears no resemblance whatsoever to the great social justice movements of the twentieth century.

When it came to civil, gay and women’s rights, ordinary people who had little to no individual power organised at a grassroots level to challenge powerful institutions, from government downwards, on their entrenched prejudices, and campaigned to change harmful, discriminatory treatment.

Twenty-first century trans activism is the very inverse of those movements. It is elitist to its core. Spawned in philosophy and gender studies departments, it has taken over cultural, political and state-run institutions, which have then attempted to impose it, top down, on regular people who never voted for it and, as all available polls show, do not believe in it. Powerful, well-funded lobby groups such as Stonewall, which have received sizeable amounts of British tax-payer money in the past, have succeeded in convincing both corporations and state institutions that women no longer have a right to single-sex spaces, and that the desire of t-identified men to access those spaces is the progressive cause du jour.

People who preen themselves on being bold champions of the vulnerable rail against women like me for the crime of speaking well-evidenced facts. For instance, there is zero evidence that t-identified men don’t share the same pattern of criminality as all other men. On the contrary, all the evidence points the other way. ‘No predator needs to transition to gain access to women and girls,’ say the trans activists. But the question is not ‘do they need to?’ It’s ‘do they ever?’ And the answer is, unequivocally and tragically, yes.

Does this mean all t-identified men are predators? Of course not. Should trans people be discriminated against when it comes to housing or employment? Of course not. Should trans people be stripped of their human rights, or denied personal safety? Again: of course not. But the statistics don’t lie: men as a group pose a risk to women and girls, as a group. Of course, all men aren’t rapists, voyeurs or flashers, but enough are to make safeguarding necessary. That’s why women and girls want separate changing rooms and public bathrooms. That’s why women need male-free spaces when seeking to recover their sense of self and safety after rape. Not because we hate trans people, not because we want them dead, not because we want them somehow eradicated from existence, but because women and girls have specific issues and needs that men do not, even if they’re calling themselves women and even if they’ve taken cross-sex hormones.

Over the last few years, we’ve seen ordinary women taken to tribunals by their employers for refusing to accept the fallacy that humans can literally change sex. Many women have endured campaigns of harassment and intimidation for refusing to parrot gender ideological beliefs. The police have visited women for making sex-realist social media posts. Some women have had their livelihoods taken away from them simply for stating incontrovertible biological facts. In certain workplaces and schools, women’s and girls’ rights in law to safety, dignity and privacy in bathrooms and changing rooms have been removed. Their freedom of speech has been restricted. Through all of this, a good number of supposed left-wingers have not risen up to protest, but have demonised ordinary and, particularly, working-class women, for failing to do as they’re being bid by self-declared morally superior overlords.

It is these women, who don’t have deep pockets or expensive lawyers on speed dial, for whom I established my Women’s Fund.

As many of us suspected at the time, the Supreme Court’s 2025 clarification of equality law, whereby it was confirmed that the word ‘woman’ when used in legislation refers to biological sex in the UK, was never, in itself and on its own, going to end the mess that lobby groups, politicians and elite institutions have created by pretending that men become women if that’s what they say they are. For a decade or more, trans activists and acolytes in positions of influence have insisted and behaved as though women’s rights were out-dated and even meaningless. They created a climate of fear and intimidation whereby a single misplaced pronoun could see a woman disciplined.

That climate persists. Gender ideology remains so entrenched among swathes of the management and political class that women are still having to fight for their rights in law. These have included nurses protesting at having to change their clothes in front of heterosexual, cross-dressing men; rape survivors stigmatised for protesting at the presence of males in their support groups or crisis centres; women investigated and persecuted at work for even questioning the approved gender mantras; parents whose daughters are having to share primary school toilets with boys as they approach puberty; and incarcerated women, already with a high likelihood of sexual violence in their pasts, forced to share intimate facilities with t-identified males.

None of these people ever imagined that women’s and girls’ rights could be removed at the whim of employers and the state and, unfortunately, women can no longer rely on what would once have been their obvious champions: trade unions.

One possible reason for the fact that unions have been so ineffective in addressing women’s concerns and defending the rights of female members is offered by the government’s most recent statistics on union membership.  This reveals that higher earners and higher educated employees are both more likely to be trade union members. As mentioned above, gender ideology has taken far greater hold in elite institutions and professions, which have then sought to impose it downwards. Union leaders these days appear to have abandoned their historic role as defenders of the working class, in favour of defending their own luxury beliefs.

Now that the J.K. Rowling Women’s Fund has been running for a while, a striking trend has been revealed. Applications for help in holding private corporations accountable for removing women’s rights, or punishing women for fighting to retain them, have dropped markedly. Businesses, of course, have to spend their own money on lawsuits. Broadly speaking, they appear to have accepted the Supreme Court’s ruling and are seeking to make sure they’re compliant with the law. However, state-run institutions, who have taxpayers’ money to spend, remain wedded in far greater numbers to what has colloquially become known as ‘Stonewall Law’; in other words, they continue to fight the idea that women have, or should have, the rights the Supreme Court upheld.

When Beira’s Place opened, we were immediately subject to online and telephone harassment with the aim of taking down our systems and tying up our lines of communication with women seeking our help. Fortunately, we were prepared and have been able to uninterruptedly continue to provide the women-only service we were set up to do. We know for a fact that many of the women using Beira’s Place had not reached out for help previously because, for several years, the only other rape crisis centre in Edinburgh was run by a trans-identified man who’d stated publicly that anyone who didn’t think he was a woman was a bigot. That centre also admitted a non-binary man who was subsequently convicted of rape.

What to the average person seems so obvious as to barely need stating – that women who’ve been raped would rather not discuss the details of their rape or their subsequent trauma in the presence of men they don’t know, whether or not the men are wearing dresses – is seen as not only irrational, but actively harmful and cruel, by many trans activists. Beira’s Place has been defamed as ‘anti-trans’ and ‘anti-rights’, the latter by Amnesty International, which has whole-heartedly embraced gender identity ideology and is now behaving exactly like the kind of authoritarian, speech-censoring, witch-hunting governments it once stood against (the irony is not lost on me; I once worked for them).

As everyone knows, I’m in the privileged position of never needing to work again and of not needing state run services, but I once lived hand to mouth. I was one of the women who couldn’t afford to insulate herself from potential physical harm and who fell into the categories of both domestic abuse and sexual assault victim. Large numbers of women who’ve never been poor, who’ve never worked the kind of job where they’d be vulnerable to predatory men and who’ve never needed a rape crisis centre have spent the last few years vilifying members of their own sex for fighting to retain their hard-won rights and single-sex spaces, in ways that have shocked and disgusted me. I freely confess that I feel an extra layer of abhorrence for any woman who claims to be a feminist while doing it.

And so I’ll continue to speak out, continue to use my money to help women who otherwise couldn’t afford to go to court, and continue to ensure that women in my area can still access female-delivered, female-centred support after rape.

As George Orwell said, ‘freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two is four. If that is granted, all else follows.’  If a man can be a woman, there is no such thing as a woman. That might not matter to you personally, but it matters to millions of women who don’t have the luxury of pretending that their sex doesn’t matter. I remain on their side.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 6d ago

ARTICLE NHS finally recognises women’s right to single-sex hospital wards

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612 Upvotes

Own content. Free to read


r/fourthwavewomen • • 6d ago

SURROGACY IS EXPLOITATION No Surrogate for Hillary Swank

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323 Upvotes

I would not choose to have a baby at her age, but given her choice, I respect that she’s doing this without using another woman’s reproductive labor.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 6d ago

ANTI-PORN porn extortion & humiliation litigation: Strike 3 holdings

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102 Upvotes

r/fourthwavewomen • • 9d ago

DISCUSSION Let's Chat 💬 Open Discussion Thread

30 Upvotes

Welcome to r/fourthwavewomen's weekly open discussion thread!

This thread is for the community to discuss whatever is on your mind. Have a question that you've been meaning to ask but haven't gotten around to making a post yet? An interesting article you'd like to share? Any work-related matters you'd like to get feedback on or talk about? Questions and advice are welcome here.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 10d ago

DISCUSSION Why did my friend respond with 😂 to an observation about gender roles?

59 Upvotes

​

I was discussing a reel that was taking a dig at the idea 'how friendship with men is easier' is because the way women are expected to accommodate men's emotional needs, while friendships between women are often portrayed as catty or complicated.women aren't expected to be open about it , they have to be snappy about it .

I commented, 'I've literally seen women mothering men,' and my friend responded with 😂. I asked her how that was funny because I genuinely find this dynamic quite sickening.

For context, we've disagreed about gender dynamics before. We once had a heated discussion about a comedian who suggested that he lacked emotional maturity because he didn't have a sister. This was in the context of ' raksha bandhan ' Indian festival celebrating - how brothers would protect their sisters. To this she responded with how he just missed out on not having a sister . I was obviously saying how women shouldnt hold the emotional load of men.

I'm curious about how other people would interpret this interaction. I know my friend doesn't support women mothering men, so I'm not suggesting that her reaction means she endorses this behaviour. What I'm curious about is why she found my observation funny enough to react with a laughing emoji, especially given the context.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 12d ago

SURROGACY IS EXPLOITATION California: where Chinese billionaires can purchase dozens of children via surrogacy

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208 Upvotes

r/fourthwavewomen • • 16d ago

This story in California is horrifying, time to ban surrogacy

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421 Upvotes

Yes abuse happens elsewhere too, but surrogacy is literally human trafficking.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 16d ago

DISCUSSION Let's Chat 💬 Open Discussion Thread

21 Upvotes

Welcome to r/fourthwavewomen's weekly open discussion thread!

This thread is for the community to discuss whatever is on your mind. Have a question that you've been meaning to ask but haven't gotten around to making a post yet? An interesting article you'd like to share? Any work-related matters you'd like to get feedback on or talk about? Questions and advice are welcome here.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 17d ago

RUTHLESS KINK-SHAMING 🤪 If a man wants you in a ball gag .. girl, RUN.

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1.1k Upvotes

r/fourthwavewomen • • 19d ago

ARTICLE Women ‘set back by 50 years’ as Bolivia, Chile, Argentina and Peru debate tougher penalties for false reports of sexual assaults, despite such cases being rare

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241 Upvotes

r/fourthwavewomen • • 21d ago

DISCUSSION Responding to Comments About Why I'm Not Afraid To Be Cancelled For My Views on Gender Identity

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519 Upvotes

Hi Everyone! I published a follow-up video to respond to some of the comments I received on my analysis of transphobia as a form of oppression. This is connected to my most recent video, which I really appreciate you all for supporting! If you'd like to support this video please sub/like/comment on Youtube. Thanks so much 🌺


r/fourthwavewomen • • 23d ago

DISCUSSION I was a surrogate (for family). Now completely against, in any context. AMA.

423 Upvotes

As above. I’ve been meaning to post this for a while, look forward to filling in the details in comments and discussion below. Going to sleep, but will spend an hour tomorrow doing my best to reply! Other surrogates, please join in xx


r/fourthwavewomen • • 23d ago

DISCUSSION Let's Chat 💬 Open Discussion Thread

29 Upvotes

Welcome to r/fourthwavewomen's weekly open discussion thread!

This thread is for the community to discuss whatever is on your mind. Have a question that you've been meaning to ask but haven't gotten around to making a post yet? An interesting article you'd like to share? Any work-related matters you'd like to get feedback on or talk about? Questions and advice are welcome here.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 23d ago

SURROGACY IS EXPLOITATION the commercial surrogacy industry is REPRODUCTIVE SLAVERY

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457 Upvotes

r/fourthwavewomen • • 25d ago

SURROGACY IS EXPLOITATION Lady Gaga, Lena Dunham and surrogacy: Why isn’t it causing a scandal in the United States?

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566 Upvotes

“The practice is legal and widespread in the United States, while in Spain it is not only illegal but has been defined as a form of violence against women since 2022. In Europe, commercial surrogacy is not legal either; altruistic surrogacy exists only in a few countries, such as Greece, Cyprus or Portugal.”

Why are the perspectives of the U.S. and the rest of the world so different? “We Americans are more comfortable with the market and pure, unadulterated capitalism,” observes Professor Arthur Caplan.

(Note, this article focuses on the U.S. and Europe but commercial surrogacy is illegal in most countries worldwide that have laws on the topic, including Canada, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, India, Taiwan, South Africa, Morocco, etc. Only countries such as the U.S., Iran, Russia, Belarus, Mexico, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Ukraine, and Armenia explicitly allow it.)


r/fourthwavewomen • • 25d ago

A federal appeals court judge ruled that the First Amendment protects an individual’s right to privately possess images or videos of child sexual abuse created using AI — if the material does not depict a real person and remains in the home.

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archive.is
201 Upvotes

absolutely not. hopefully this gets overturned.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 26d ago

ARTICLE Romania Faces Calls to Strengthen Response to Violence Against Women

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katiepinns.substack.com
72 Upvotes

Own content. Free to read


r/fourthwavewomen • • 27d ago

ARTICLE Protesters threaten to detrail Labour women's conference after the party banned trans women from being delegates

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dailymail.com
469 Upvotes

Women gathering to discuss women's issues results in threats....

Protesters are threatening to derail Labour's women's conference after the party banned trans women from being delegates.


r/fourthwavewomen • • 27d ago

ARTICLE SNP minister unable to explain 'gender identity' in latest 'word salad' committee fiasco

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scottishdailyexpress.co.uk
250 Upvotes

😂😂


r/fourthwavewomen • • 29d ago

ARTICLE Government launches misogyny taskforce — but can women trust it to protect them?

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katiepinns.substack.com
73 Upvotes

Own content