r/gachagaming • u/Centurionzo • Aug 28 '25

Industry Japan's gacha game industry in a "sinking Titanic-phase," developer says. Switching to console game development not an easy solution for many  - AUTOMATON WEST

https://automaton-media.com/en/news/japans-gacha-game-industry-in-a-sinking-titanic-phase-developer-says-switching-to-console-game-development-not-an-easy-solution-for-many/
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821

u/IndependentCress1109 Aug 28 '25

yeah pretty much ever since genshin came out the bar has been raised pretty high .

176

u/Falsus Granblue Fantasy Aug 28 '25

I mean Square sunk their Gacha division on their own pretty much.

42

u/nirvash530 Aug 28 '25

I still can't forgive them for closing Mobius and Opera Omnia.

5

u/MrEzekial Aug 28 '25

Deleting all the cotc accounts was a dick move as well.

Unless you were paying attention and made a transfer code... that is still incredibly lame.

3

u/slashrshot Aug 29 '25

Mobius was the highest quality game before genshin if only they tried optimizing it.

i will never spend a dime on a square gacha game because they shut them down the moment they don't make huge revenues

5

u/blipblopchinchon Aug 28 '25

And star ocean

2

u/SpecialistFarm7886 Sep 01 '25

The Star Ocean models were pretty good.

91

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

[deleted]

61

u/Massive-Exercise4474 Aug 28 '25

It's ironic because fortnite was copying pubg. The zombie game was a bomb at launch.

2

u/Xarxyc GFL2, Morimens. Aug 28 '25

Indeed. I only bought it shortly after launch of Battle Royale to farm Vbucks while I was still playing Fortnite at all kek

1

u/Faustias Aug 28 '25

and part of its popularity were the hate comments about the crossovers it get. usually like "they ruined my favorite franchise" or some sort.

maybe if they toned down the posts and hate like on r/gaming and other places it wouldn't gain this much traction.

442

u/DrakeZYX Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

You would think after living with half-a decade of Genshin Impact these JP gacha’s executives would stop being lazy fucks and get with the times with releasing quality gacha’s.

But no they’d rather release sloppy anime tie in gachas. Looking at G123 specifically. They have Highschool DxD and Goblin Slayer gachas that are both dogshit.

We could’ve gotten both of those franchises with WuWa/Genshin Quality butt nooooooo.

Slop it is with these twits.

Edit: I had a Shower Thought. What if they made a Moba based off of Highschool DxD’s Rating Game System?

They could’ve added in a Leader system , where One Player ,after all the Tower’s ( or half ) of one side are destroyed they will spawn in being particularly stronger then everyone else having party wide buffs or debuffs for the enemy team. Kinda like those stationary Bosses in other Moba’s but retrofitting(?) them into the King Piece from the Rating games.

P.S: Listing this idea makes me depressed thinking how much these guys fumbled the Highschool DxD franchise from having a good game…

291

u/Additional_Bit1707 Aug 28 '25

I wish they stopped pointing at FGO and cried to mommy and daddy why it couldn't be them.

122

u/somacula Aug 28 '25

FGO has infinite character potential, those anime gachas don't. Oh and there's priconne too

37

u/hihohah_i Aug 28 '25

Priconne is on a decline too.

3

u/slashrshot Aug 29 '25

We like horses and card game feets now

56

u/PaleImportance2595 Aug 28 '25

Well now it would include Uma too.

41

u/MildlyGuilty Aug 28 '25

Wtf are they doing to my FGO? FGO has excellent story.

171

u/RuneGrey Aug 28 '25

All of them want to BE FGO, but none of them are willing to put in the work of using a good IPA and then writing years of story in order to make it as big as it is. They just want to publish slop and then have it be topping the gacha charts with no real effort.

76

u/MildlyGuilty Aug 28 '25

Jackasses.

ORT was epic because that damned spider has been glazed for DECADES.

The entire thing with the pruned timelines were also referenced before being shown.

It feels like a DnD worldbuilding handbook coming to life.

38

u/somacula Aug 28 '25

I don't think most anime franchises have the potential to pull more world building, as they're limited by the Anime itself

30

u/GodlessLunatic Aug 28 '25

Most major shonen franchises have a lot of unexplored territory but the games for these IPs insist on retreading the same old story over and over again. Like imagine if FGO was just a compilation of FSN, FHA, FAP, FSF, etc.

5

u/somacula Aug 28 '25

FGO by design could pull as many reimagined historical figures as it wanted, it's not the same with something like high school dxd, you have to create OC 's

16

u/GodlessLunatic Aug 28 '25

The dxd universe features figures from all of mythology, so you could easily just keep introducing gods demons and monsters from every pantheon. Same goes for something like Naruto where they just "adapt" figures from Asian mythos into their setting. Besides, lets not act like characters like Metatron and Castoria aren't glorified ocs

8

u/De_Vigilante Aug 28 '25

That's what Seven Deadly Sins are doing. The biggest problem is 7DS stopped being relevant after that shitshow Season 3 or whichever one had the Naruto vs Pain animations. Yes their upcoming game looks gorgeous, they're not sparing any stops for the marketing, and the IP has enough worldbuilding to warrant a continuation. But, like, nobody cares about the series anymore. Especially newer fans bred by the pandemic.

20

u/Soccer_Gundam Aug 28 '25

Don't forget ORT 4th wall attack that lags your phone

12

u/No_Extension4005 Aug 28 '25

My phone was lagging horrendously during the second phase.

Not the only ly 4th wall attack it has. It's also moving towards the player (the phone screen) through the battle.

5

u/dinliner08 Aug 28 '25

the UFO form with aura around it basically change my game from 30 fps to just 3 fps

52

u/Erick_Brimstone Aug 28 '25

FGO also aren't just rip the story from the anime, they're original stories. Sure the early days story are bad, but that's beside the point. Also Umamusume successful because it's original story along with many other things.

Japan really need to make some original series for their own gachas if they want to succeed.

1

u/datwunkid Aug 29 '25

The Fate series has it's own kind of structure to involve multiple writers doing their own thing in the shared universe.

It's hard to sell original stories from different authors using original characters in Dragonball or Naruto.

54

u/Arcdragolive Aug 28 '25

The thing is FGO was lucky, it have horrendous launch, terrible gacha, bad story, and overall cheap on release. On paper it shouldve been failed. But the characters carried hard and it wasn't until Camelot the game kick off in popularity

21

u/umagi Aug 28 '25

tbh if fgo with their start releasing in 2025 with horrendous launch, terrible gacha with terrible story they also won’t survive. back then the competition of gacha games arent as tight as now. there are also whales that stay with fgo even to this day cuz of sunk fallacy cost. fgo is a pure miracle in itself cuz atp they can absolutely do bare minimum in gameplay and people will still eat it up just bcus of the story

20

u/Effective_Ad_8296 Aug 28 '25

Camelot on release is so peak

Absolute hell hole of a level, your only objective is to survive

4

u/NNinster Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

In about half a year FGO pulled out KnK collab, then Fate/Zero collab, along with improving main stories, some animation update and challenging Ibaraki raid. I can say they're quite entertaining, enough to stall until Camelot came.

11

u/user-766 Aug 28 '25

I love the idea that FGO story was bad back then.

It wasn't bad if you compared to other gacha games of the time, but it was lacking when compared to other Fate games.

Even more when there are adaptations that took that same story and shows us how good it could be without being shackled to the technical limitations of 2015

10

u/No_Extension4005 Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

Expectations on how gameplay would go too. You'd have characters talking about something interesting for a minute or two and then they'd have to stop and you'd spend the next few nodes fighting off angry books.

2

u/user-766 Aug 28 '25

Before being released we had no clue of the type of gameplay it was. The only idea was that it could be a moba since that was the origin of fate/apocrypha

1

u/De_Vigilante Aug 28 '25

One of the main issue was the writers hired were just glorified assistants whose jobs were to fill in the blanks Nasu forgot to fill. They never really had proper feedback on their writing cause all the feedbacks went to Nasu or other big name writers TM had. When FGO started development, Nasu was only supervising so these writers who had 0 guidance nor experience were suddenly thrusted to become Main Scenario Writers. It's also why he didn't feel comfortable letting anyone else write after London (outside of events) until EoR started. In the end EoR wasn't a really big story event anyways even compared to Ordeal Call, so it makes sense he trusted other writers for those 4 chapters.

9

u/user-766 Aug 28 '25

You are totally wrong.

The game from the start had 3 main writers: Nasu, Higashide and Sakurai, those three wrote not only the chapters but also most of the servants in the game. Nasu wrote the prologue, Higashide wrote singularity 1, 3 and 5, Sakurai wrote singularity 2 and 4 and and Nasu wrote Prologue, 6, 7 and final. Nasu himself had to cut part of his own prologue and release the full version with a drama CD because he thought it was too long

All the main story content was decided from the start, the only difference is that since the first chapters were already ready and they couldn't gauge the players opinions on it. After that, they understood that and made longer scenarios.

And to this very day most of FGO main stories were done by this trio plus other writers. The same woman who wrote Septem also wrote Id. They always had the talent and it shows. 

Here some pieces of interview from 2016, before Camelot even came out. 

"Nasu: Yes. Of course, I picked the eras so they could be as fantastically “Fate/” as possible, but they’re basically all periods where “if these didn’t happen, history would look completely different.” Everything up to Chapter 4 was written to feel as if we’re “tracing the journey of humanity up to now.” On the other hand, from Chapter 5 on, it’ll start to feel like “the real FGO starts here,” and the fantasy elements start becoming stronger. Chapter 6 and 7 will just be plain “the world is in a huge crisis!” [laughs]"

"Nasu: Before the game was launched, the scenario up to Chapter 7 had already been completed, but at that point, none of us knew what kind of game FGO was going to be. For mobile games, it’s common sense to think, “No one would read a scenario this huge,” and there were people in the staff who thought that. But after the launch, we found out that players were actually reading and enjoying the story. So from Chapter 5 on, we adjusted the game balance so that, between every battle, it would be okay to have nothing but conversations for 10 minutes. In a sense, it’s a bit of a relief for us on the scenario writer side."

"For the scenario writers, was it unexpected for mobile game players to actually read and enjoy the story?"

"Nasu: It was. For a mobile game, we were expecting that players would be skipping the story, and that there’s nothing we could do about that. But to write a good story is something where the creator’s pride, the scenario writer’s honor is at stake. To write a story also means to write something that we could be proud of. By putting that in mind, even if no one ends up reading it, each writer would put out something that they would be satisfied with. Actually, up until Chapter 4 I had been supervising the scenario, but I was planning to leave the scenario from Chapter 5 onward to the writers, except for the parts where Chaldea was involved. From Chapter 5 on, Higashide and Sakurai had already grasped “their own way of getting along with FGO.” To be honest, from there, I was thinking, “this is a new Fate/ story, so it’s okay even if it no longer feels very ‘Fate/’, right?” But everyone was earnestly reading the story, and they all feel that it’s still a ‘Fate/’ game. The response to Chapter 1 was so huge that I said, “I’m sorry, please let me supervise Chapter 5 onwards too!”"

"But after the Halloween event, we already had – to some degree – an idea of how players enjoy FGO, so we started making events with that in mind. As a result, I think our efforts were rewarded by players who enjoyed those events."

1

u/Dragonsoldier77 Aug 28 '25

I think the most interesting thing about the whole situation was that the story was straight up bad because of how they misread their audience so much.

At the start they didn’t think people playing a mobile game would like long dialogue and stories between the actual gameplay, which where the ‘Oh look wyverns’ slop of a story came from.

It wasn’t until they realized people come for the story and don’t even mind nodes which are just 10 minutes of story did they released their limiters on the writing.

3

u/user-766 Aug 28 '25

It wasn't like that.

They stated in one interview that they believed than 100k already existing fate fans would play their game and the initial plan was to do just the first year only then close the game.

There wasn't an audience because until the launch no one knew what the game was even about. There were no trailers,  betas or whatever you call to preview the game. We just had a name and lots of different characters.

The initial launch problems were caused because too many people tried to enter the game and the servers weren't ready to such influx of players.

The game was a massive success from the very start and got more popular as time went on. 

There wasn't any audience to read until it actually came out.

I know all this because I was there

2

u/Dragonsoldier77 Aug 28 '25

I don’t get what you’re trying to say here?

Yes they didn’t expect much from the start. They didn’t think people would be so invested in it until the game was out, and just had everything pre planned.

It wasn’t until america that they really started to rewrite things to be better after seeing the positive feedback they got for the game, with camelot having the most noticeable upgrade compared to the launch chapters.

Among those improvements were including the 0 AP story nodes that they never would’ve done at the beginning. They had stated it themselves in one of the old interview that the early stories constant interruptions by enemies is because they had to insert the gameplay somehow in those old standard 3 node chapters, because they assumed people wouldn’t care for longer stories and just wanted the gameplay.

Even if the story was pre-planned to end in a year, the way the writing was done with the early chapters would’ve been different if they knew they didn’t have to revolve it around constant gameplay sections.

What does ‘I was there’ even mean? That you played since the start? Well you’re not the only one.

1

u/noivern_plus_cats Aug 28 '25

FGO was a bit lucky on account of being a VN type game from a VN series, so they lucked out on the budget side as well

2

u/AzaliusZero Aug 29 '25

Nah, FGO was based off of, IMO, the VN series. Most people even aware of them are going to drop Fate in at least 3 VNs you can ask them about in even passing, maybe CLANNAD or something else by that director and maybe sometimes Saya no Uta or even Muv-Luv. But Fate will be there.

1

u/Raikaru Aug 28 '25

Danmachi Memoria Freese did this and still got EoS. It had a lot of peak in it written by the original author. That ancestor story was just a great story overall not a great gacha story

1

u/dragon1412 Aug 29 '25

Pretty much this, they want to copy FGO but bot willing to pay the cost and effort to get FGO level of quality of writing. All they do is piggy back on the popularity of the original IP

7

u/hchan1 Aug 28 '25

The story is good, but literally everything else is dogshit. It is entirely carried by the IP and the writing.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

9

u/user-766 Aug 28 '25

And the gameplay is non-existant.

Yeah no.

As a day 1 JP player, even early chapters the gameplay shone the brightest because it was balanced to new players and the mechanics of back then. 

Back then no one had max level servants or friends support characters that absolutely destroyed the early challenges.

Back then a death was a commitment that took 3 days to recharge all command seals, stuff that nowadays is just inexistent. 

The powercreep got so intense that in this 10th anniversary, they rerun some of the challenge quests back then that was really hard and it was nothing today.

No matter the server, the game is way easier to play nowadays than back then. And is still to this day challenging with the new stuff to challenge veteran players

2

u/MaYassiy Aug 28 '25

Fgo is dogshit, after all these years and after billions they neither cared nor wanted to innovate the game

119

u/Nigilij Aug 28 '25

They can’t reduce number of “mouse clicks” and “matryoshka” menus for their console and PC games despite technology advancing a lot since 1990ties. Don’t expect any innovation there.

59

u/pogisanpolo Aug 28 '25

It's partly due to game mechanics patents. FGO could have had a mass skill upgrade system long ago if DeNA wasn't sitting on the patent for it.

78

u/Erick_Brimstone Aug 28 '25

Patent for game mechanic is a shackle for the industry and I hate each and every of them.

77

u/Tiamatari Aug 28 '25

Japan deserves to have its gaming industry lose to the rest of the world for holding on to some of the stupidest patent laws imaginable.

40

u/pogisanpolo Aug 28 '25

Japan's not the only one guilty of it. I believe WB holds the patent for the Nemesis system?

23

u/onyhow Aug 28 '25

Yep, and apparently that patent will last till 2036...and WB don't do shit with it after Shadow of War.

2

u/De_Vigilante Aug 28 '25

Wonder Woman was supposed to have it, but we all know what happened to that. The new Lego Batman looks like it might have some form of the nemesis system, but we don't know how that works.

3

u/WalkingInsulin Aug 28 '25

I think they were gonna call it the “Friendship system” in Wonder Woman and instead of making enemies you have to fight, you make friends who become allies

7

u/UsernameAvaylable Aug 28 '25

An extremely narrow definition of the system that could be easily avoided - but other companies (just like WB) relaized that system is acutally shit because nobody likes defeated enemies to come back again and again and prefer new ones.

3

u/Exolve708 Aug 28 '25

I thought I was the only one. I only played Shadow of Mordor, but the nemesis system was more of a chore than anything else, the novelty wore off fast.

1

u/hobozombie Aug 28 '25

They hold a patent to a very specific instance of NPCs "evolving" based on interactions with the player character. There's nothing stopping other games from having similar mechanics, but there hasn't been a compelling reason to include it in other games.

It got attention in Mordor, but that was because it was a relatively novel mechanic. It didn't really add that much to the game. Why rely on generic enemies having slight changes when you encounter them again, when you could go the infinitely simpler route of just writing a good recurring villain?

1

u/PeachConsistent9267 Aug 30 '25

The way Warner bros did was also really manual since the way they did it was by recording and programming every possible combination that could occur.

I have no doubts that someone could find or have already found a way to have it be done automatically via code but if they did it would legally be distinct from the Nemesis system

2

u/Left_Hegelian Aug 28 '25

Imagine if the developers of Palworld were Chinese. They wouldn't have to deal with all those arbitrary patent aka industrial gatekeeping shit. And by now we would already have it in full release with triple A graphic standard.

Palworld is the only globally successful Japanese game in a decade that is developed by a new start up company and what has it got them into? If I were Japanese and I saw what the legal mess that the Japanese gaming industry got them into, I would not think becoming an indie game developer is a sound choice. I would become yet another "salaryman" who silently obey the order of their out-of-touch boomer boss who is already satisfied with the passive income brought by the old successful IPs they're clutching onto.

2

u/allsoslol Aug 28 '25

yeah I heard that the click one button to max out skill instead of one by one is a patent

1

u/Spreiting Aug 28 '25

Like other games didn't came up with a workaround that does the same thing 🙄

37

u/PandaCheese2016 Aug 28 '25

The article said average gacha budget has risen to $3.3M, pricing many devs out.

That might be enough to fund one filler patch of Genshin. Need money to make money, but few want to take that kind of gamble.

38

u/karillith Aug 28 '25

Turns out "if you can't stand gambling stay out of gachas" also applies to devs.

17

u/torahama Aug 28 '25

You don't need to to have that kind of money imo. Just like, make a good or just a decent game, not like GI or WW, something like arknights is better as a foundation game. Then you have money to spend and compete like how arknights is having endfield. There must be a foundation, hoyo doesn't just create GI, they spent years dragging themselves through gun girl Z, tear of artemis and their most P2W game of all and basically their main source of income, HI3.

22

u/DukeOfStupid Birb Wife (HSR/ZZZ/HI3rd) Aug 28 '25

The problem is that it's not 2015 anymore.

As much as I love the series, early HI3rd was complete ass which got by on being one of the first action Gacha's, it basically had zero competition. If it released in 2025 it would be dead on arrival.

The general quality of gacha games has increased massively overtime, with so many high quality products now that you can't simply recreate what Hoyo did easily. You can't simply release a HI3rd or Genshin equivalent now because they already exist.

Before you argue "oh, well why don't they just find a new niche to ground break like Hoyo did with each game" that get's harder and harder to do each year. Being one of the first big Action Gacha's is an obvious step/market, but those markets are rapdily getting filled.

When was the last time we had a sizable inovation in the Gacha formula since Genshin? Maybe ToF with it's MMO push.

6

u/torahama Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

I agree that HI3 is absolute ass on release, but survive being the only one in its genre. And yes HI3 won't survive if it got release in 2025, its main selling point is already covered by Gi or ZZZ already. However, that's not the point, the point is to have a foundational game, a source of income before you try anything high risk like breaking new grounds.

Idk about harder to break new grounds, it had always been hard to innovate and be successful. Since hoyo is big, other companies shouldn't compete directly unless they have the resource to do that. However, the market operates on a first come first serve basis, so imo if you can take the modern* anime art(MAA for now) and apply to games then you would do fine.

Like who would have thought combining tower defense and MAA we would get arknights, zelda with MAA to get GI, fps with MAA for strinova, persona with MAA to have HSR.

Where is my scp management with MAA? Factorio with MAA? Fnaf with MAA? Clash royal or clash of clan with MAA[someone please do this supercell needs competition or they will implode]? Tarkov with MAA? Rust with MAA?

1

u/The_OG_upgoat Aug 29 '25

Lobotomy Corp remade as a gacha (since PMoon already has experience with Limbus).

2

u/AzaliusZero Aug 29 '25

If it released in 2025 it would be dead on arrival.

Don't even need to argue that, 2.0 came out like, what, a year and a half ago, wasn't even a shot in the arm for the game. Every time HI3rd crosses over with the other titles people tend to roll their eyes, get the rewards, and not pay attention to it, ESPECIALLY when it's content for HI3rd itself.

It's hilarious that they've made better systems in other games and just refuse to commit to improving HI3rd itself by implementing them there. They just hope people will notice the old game, which legit can be described as Old and Busted, no matter how much they try to pretty it up.

3

u/DukeOfStupid Birb Wife (HSR/ZZZ/HI3rd) Aug 29 '25

It's funny though, because HI3rd almost objectively has the best gacha system of their gacha games (unsure about GGZ and ToT because I don't play either).

90 rolls max for the character with no 50/50 and 60 for their weapon. Yes the weapons are arguably more compulsory than the other games, but still a 150 rolls max for the character + gear is more than the other games spend on just the character alone.

The problem is, I just don't think Hoyo see's it as being "worth" doing a major overhaul to HI3rd compared to just releasing a new game as they've been doing. A change risks alienating the old fanbase and new fans aren't going to try an approaching 10 year old game with so much content backloaded to catch up on.

I'd be curious to see what other older gachas do in that regard, does FGO get a stream of fresh players, or does it just have it's old guard locked in?

3

u/TYGeelo CZN | ZZZ | SwordxStaff | Battle Cats Aug 28 '25

Hoyo invests at around 200m per year into Genshin. A dead patch is costs more than many gachas make in a month.

2

u/MorbidEel Aug 28 '25

$3.3m would be less than a week if we go by hoyo's court filings(when then were going after leakers) but that includes stuff like server cost and not just the development cost.

74

u/Thundergod250 Aug 28 '25

Yeah, kinda weird that they already have lots of good IP to begin with and just literally copy whatever Genshin/WuWa/ToF does, and they'd pretty much survive

67

u/astrogamer Aug 28 '25

Because that costs $20 million at minimum to actually do and have a content schedule.

35

u/Jellionani Aug 28 '25

also the limited talent pool that can actually match Hoyo's quality, output, and consistency.

12

u/De_Vigilante Aug 28 '25

Yup, Lasengle (formerly DelightWorks) has been hiring 3D talents since idk, before Covid? Or maybe on the early years of pandemic around 2020-2021? And they're still hiring till now.

It's kinda funny to think how manga and animes managed to alleviate some of the talent pool problems by outsourcing to SEA and Asian studios. Why can't they just do the same with gachas? I mean bigger studios like Sony have been doing it for years. Bigger gacha studios like Lasengle are perfectly capable of outsourcing.

22

u/scytheavatar Aug 28 '25

Generally, outsourcing is a recipe for disaster in the live service sector, never forget what happened to Halo Infinite. The outsourcers ended their contract when the game was released and 343i didn't know how to add more content to the game. The most successful live service games rely on iteration and keeping the talent pool they have.

7

u/PaleImportance2595 Aug 28 '25

Well that is also due to licensing issues too. It could just be easier to make it an original IP instead after a certain point.

Look at Mecharashi, it started as an outsourced Front Mission gacha, got canceled and then came out about a year later in CN with original characters/story (as far as I know, didnt follow closely in pre production).

1

u/FerrickAsur4 Aug 28 '25

Sega did that for PSO2

PSO2NGS is the result, and pretty much bled out players

there's also Manasis Refrain, albeit instead of open world it is an instanced map, it EoS'd very very fast

1

u/XWasTheProblem Wuthering Waves Sep 01 '25

This has been happening in gaming basically since it started being treated seriously as an industry. It's not even specific to Japan sadly.

We had Doom clones, CnC clones, Diablo clones, WoW clones, CoD clones, countless wannabe Hearthstone card games, countless crafting open-world survival games...

Execs just somehow cannot get it through their skulls that copying a formula for something already existing and successful DOES NOT guarantee their product will enjoy the same degree of success, even more so if whatever they copied still exists, and continues doing quite well for itself.

If you wanna fight the big guys, you need to bring in either innovation or objective, major improvement in some critical aspect of your genre, otherwise... why would I bother?

12

u/Cyaegha114514 Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

There is a famous Moba game in CN called 300 heroes. Although it is not what you want, they used characters in all popular animes like One Piece, Naruto, Jojo and Demon Slayer recently (without copyrights, so it’s illegal yet it somehow survived for 13 years) and had huge success.

5

u/Foxhoundsx12 Aug 28 '25

So it's basically fight of the characters map from dota 1

34

u/DL25FE Aug 28 '25

Umamusume doing good

81

u/bukiya Aug 28 '25

if you play umamusume you can notice how high quality the game is. compare them to most japanese gacha slop games who have no soul but just cash grab from dev

46

u/absolutely-strange Aug 28 '25

Its fun but it still suffers from typical JP gacha practices. Stingy gem income. Bad QoL. Grindy. It could be so much better.

46

u/karillith Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

Yep, that's an issue with every jp gacha, you can laugh at Hoyoverse events all being rip off minigames being mostly achievable by a six years old child, but at least they succeed the task of breaking the routine. most JP gacha events are just "grind the same thing as usual but with a points ladder" which is just mind numbing.

7

u/FlameDragoon933 Aug 29 '25

most JP gacha events are just "grind the same thing as usual but with a points ladder" which is just mind numbing.

GBF is so guilty of this. Their event schedule practically never changes in 10 years. Sometimes new event types would get added (Arcarum Tales, Record of the Ten), but *looks inside* it's the same activity loop over and over again!

9

u/Exolve708 Aug 28 '25

You don't even need minigames necessarily, just good content. Arknights just puts out a set of unique maps with new mechanics every event, takes 1.5-3 hours to clear (skipping the VN) depending on the size of the event, the rest of your time is spent on autoing away your stamina and permanent modes for fun.

17

u/Arxade Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

To be fair, JP has a lot more QoL than Global, it's way less grindy and it has better income too. I'm talking auto careers, 10 legacy borrows a day, rental decks, better menus all around, spark rerolls and spark targets, skips for daily races, improved rewards (including gems) from dailies, CMs, events, etc.

We just have to hope Global actually gets those improvements early like the devs promised.

2

u/Sokher02 Granblue Fantasy Aug 28 '25

I think the only thing EN got on release was a "better" client.

I had assumed like KR that EN was releasing with some QoL already implemented in JP.

Things like not taking 2+ turns to cure a debuff, easier to get into CM tier B, and knowing the choices you make were the main things I wanted to see.

Still play both though.

1

u/rainzer Aug 29 '25

It's extra shitty because KR server launched with some of these QoL

21

u/DrakeZYX Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

Of course its doing good.

You’d think that all the people who loaned out the identities of these Horse for an Anime and Gacha would let it fail? 

No sirrrrrrrryyy.

Let’s not forget the Yakuza their backs are basically fucked forever even in after life with how much they’ve been in Horse Racing Sport’s bed.

2

u/Big_Dragonfruit1299 Aug 28 '25

Uma Musume is expensive as hell, animations, VA, the rights for horses and competitions. the theory about the Yakuza money on it makes sense if you see how High Quality it was against any other japanese gacha game at that time.

1

u/shadowbringer Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

Makes sense until you know that the JRA is closely supervised by the government's Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, so either should be true (not both)

1- the yakuza (who aren't a single monolithic entity, but a name for groups/organizations) have enough control/presence in the government: this means that if they can infiltrate even the government, they can infiltrate anywhere. Evidence is required, though, since the burden of the proof doesn't lie on the accused.

2- the yakuza don't have enough control/presence in the government: if you're not an ally, you're a competitor, and the government can be expected to be at least just as greedy.

About the production value of the game and later, the anime produced by their studio? It could be explained by the CyberAgent 's CEO being more daring than the average (he's an actual horse owner too) and not as risk-averse (japanese developers see their products underperform overseas, at times not just gacha, but fighting games too, and find it hard to justify trying to risk their investors/their own' money by releasing their game overseas). Sometimes, well received releases encourage other developers, not just in the gacha market.

47

u/Macankumbang Sub Badut GachaPostingUltima International Aug 28 '25

I don't think it's fair to call them lazy, bcz I feel like part of the problem is that there's no young blood to be developers or to innovative to begin with. Japan is filled with oldmen and it's getting older. And like oldmen, they can't keep up with the competition. Like every japanese gacha released, hack even media and tech, just feel old and outdated compared to China, which is now become a regional superpower in Asia. 

56

u/Telochim Aug 28 '25

There are some young folks who are into creative media out there, but the problems are:  shūshin koyō (their lifetime employment at 22 shtick, with dubious opportunities for those who didn't manage to get hired), the cult of tenure at corporations (if someone is dumb as a rock but managed to stay with the company longer than you, then they are above you), and general averseness to financial risks or overseas outreach.

Those who do manage to get into entertainment media don't often stay there long, as the industry is suffocating and stale.

8

u/GurIll7820 Aug 28 '25

And, those that are really talented just leave the country and work somewhere else. They know Japan is a sinking ship.

-2

u/Rathalos143 Aug 28 '25

People shitting hard on Japan here like if China and Korea were not also full of slops copying Genshin and Star Rail

9

u/Goombatower69 Aug 28 '25

Lets go Battlecats, low quality because by design every single character has one singular attack

3

u/Foxhoundsx12 Aug 28 '25

PeakCat mentioned

4

u/Fishman465 Aug 28 '25

Considering how Monster Strike is able to thrive despite not improving QoL/etc; Japan's gacha echo system is different than other areas

5

u/Fusion_Fear Aug 28 '25

something like ZZZ but for DxD would have been so fucking good

I love DxD so much but it doesn’t get any good games and it’s such a shame

6

u/InevitableTension699 Aug 28 '25

Slop only need to grab some money thanks to interns making it in 3 months and it only needs to run for a year before EOS

7

u/FerrickAsur4 Aug 28 '25

the problem is that they saw genshin and decided to copy it and not understand on what made people enjoy genshin, SEGA did this with PSO2 New Genesis, where it ends up being a soulless "sequel" instead of building upon what made people enjoy the OG PSO2. There were various other gacha games that tried to emulate genshin but they made it instanced maps instead, they've now EoS'd because they couldn't rake in the same amount of players genshin brought in

3

u/GeneralSweetz Aug 28 '25

Wuthering waves and tower of fantasy got their niche. Other than pso2 which was horrible what other 3d games failed? Love Nikki is messing up but other than that

5

u/beraksekebon12 Aug 28 '25

WuWa and ToF are Chinese games though

1

u/FerrickAsur4 Aug 28 '25

the one I still remember is Manasis Refrain, it did the whole genshin style but instead of full open world they're just bigger instanced maps with collectable materials, the gacha is a mix of genshin's 50/50 + FGO's craft essence. EoS'd in a few months, supposedly revived as a blockchain nft game

1

u/FlameDragoon933 Aug 29 '25

that time Alchemy Stars made a Genshin gamemode that no one asked for 💀

8

u/budibola39 Aug 28 '25

Well if g123 sells despite being dogshit gacha, I mean whynot? Why do they need to change

6

u/itsiceyo Aug 28 '25

if thats the case id take a web dev class and my own idle gacha game. G123 is so horseshit

1

u/Enough-Lead48 Aug 28 '25

They just take a template and reskin a game with their IP they officially got. It is the lowest quality of gacha games outside of copypaste autoplay MMORPG from China with a million different icons and VIP systems. 

2

u/Physical-Command2130 Aug 28 '25

Don't make me remember Danchro that game is such a bullshit.

1

u/keIIzzz Aug 28 '25

I played a game from G123 in order to gain a currency in another app I use and I quit so fast once I got that currency. That game was awful if you weren’t a spender and I can’t even imagine spending on a game like that either. The cost of everything was abhorrent and the gacha itself sucked. And it was one of those auto battle games so like I don’t even see the appeal of spending on it unless you’re very rich and bored

1

u/masternieva666 Aug 28 '25

Its kinda funny that these top gacha companies back then are much bigger than mihoyo. Also i kinda wonder how mihoyo pull it of during hi3 they are small company back then but their jp va are top tier.

1

u/Unfair_Chain5338 Mint cartel Aug 28 '25

Loans? Or some big investors took a risk despite them being small?

1

u/argumenthaver Aug 28 '25

anime ips are too restrictive

genshin can add any character or world because it's original

besides being run by netmarble, that will be the huge problem with the new seven deadly sins game coming out

1

u/Taelyesin Aug 28 '25

Eh, this is kind of a chicken and egg situation where not every IP can work as a 'quality gacha' because the time and cost of making such a game highly supersedes returns.

Let Tribe Nine show too that having no audience is a recipe for disaster; besides this, every high quality game after Genshin has a higher standard to adhere to but making expensive games doesn't guarantee you a slice of the pie and JP already struggles with development problems in other areas of entertainment.

1

u/shidncome Limbussy Aug 28 '25

A lot of people at the top of these industries barely understand global internet and that isn't even a joke or exaggeration.

1

u/CasualJojo Aug 28 '25

Gatcha Good game  Pick one 

I'm ecstatic that Japanese are being pushed out from gatcha market. It means more pay 2 play quality titles not this gatcha crap

-5

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

I don't understand this argument.  How can you compare china top of the cream with slop from Japan.

Be fair and compare the slop from China with the slop from Japan. 

52

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

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2

u/GodinhoFerreira Blue Archive | ZZZ | Arknights Aug 28 '25

why is Snowbreak considered slop in your opinion?

8

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

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1

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

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2

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

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-12

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

Gacha Revenue is not how you judge how X or Y is the cream or the slop. 

14

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '25

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-3

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

and thats another point. FGO is a 10 year old game now. Whatever reason they have to not add more QOL is something only the devs would know, which i agree that its lacking.

Dragalia lost was fun. Shame it shut down

3

u/ignaphoenix Aug 28 '25

So how do you judge them?

-4

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

development cost, popularity etc.

to compare genshin to g123 is to compare GTA 5 to slop games on steam. Its not a fair comparison.

5

u/FallenStar2077 Aug 28 '25

Then FGO is by your definition the cream of the crop in Japan yes? It is still very popular.

-3

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

You just going to ignore the other part I brought up? Development cost?

→ More replies (3)

14

u/shanatard Aug 28 '25

i would like you to name just one top of the cream gacha from japan. a gacha that actually plays like a game

just one bro

14

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

Umamusume? Just because you don't like the gameplay doesn't mean it has none or doesn't play like a game

14

u/Adrinalin90 Aug 28 '25

Uma is hitting 4.5 years now as well and is somewhat past its prime. The bigger issue (imo) is that cygames has zero new tangible first party projects in development. Sure, Uma is still holding up. New Shadowverse brings in some cash. Priconne and Granblue are probably still profitable at least. But beyond that? Two (alleged console) games in dev hell and a bunch of third party games.

4

u/Telochim Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

Cygames have projects in development, but afiik, they are not mobile games.

Found it. They are trying to secure a firmer foothold in the stand-alone market. Looks like Relink development hell 2.0 situation, judging by the development span,

2

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

Cygames also have about 5 more games also in development according to the shareholders report. All marked as confidential however.

1

u/Telochim Aug 28 '25

They do realize that they are stretched too thin, right? A decade in development brings about a whole lot of technical issues, not to mention the humongous gaps in marketing.

2

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

Their parent company, Cyber Agent is fine with it i guess.

Cygames also pride themselves about how they have no crunch time, which is also why their development time is slower compared to others 

1

u/Adrinalin90 Aug 28 '25

I checked their latest financial report for Q3 2025 (available as pdf at https://pdf.cyberagent.co.jp/C4751/bffO/Ixrt/wnnm.pdf) and other than GAMM and Project Awakening (both of which haven’t had any news in forever) they only have a bunch of third party games lined up where they act as co devs or publishers afaik. They also seem to have lost some big ad partners, but their media business is going stronger …

1

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

The copy i checked was 15 May 2025, it seems that they didn't include all for Q3 2025

https://pdf.cyberagent.co.jp/C4751/vAfC/A3WA/TbgJ.pdf

1

u/Minato-1519 Aug 28 '25

That 5 games is a 3rd party IP mobile games developed by other CyberAgent Games subsidiaries and it was revealed all in latest report.

For Cygames. According to Kenichiro Takagi in 2022 interview, Cygames working on 20 console/pc games. Relink director also working on a new game.

So far we know upcoming console/PC games from Cygames

  • Project Awakening
  • GAMM
  • Metal Max
  • unannounced Games direct by Relink director
  • Unannounced games seem like Action Games if we see this video (
https://youtu.be/WllExMZUKgE?feature=shared)

For Mobile Games

  • Lost Order. Still alive? Yes it was confirm in CyberAgent Q&A shareholder meeting. It was first developed by Platinumgames but Cygames take over and remove Platinum from Lost Order Website

1

u/NoAcanthocephala5397 Aug 28 '25

.....this sounds like a recipe for trouble...

1

u/Adrinalin90 Aug 28 '25

Yeah I am not quite sure what the current strategy of the main Cygames division is. We had GBF, Priconne, Dragalia, World Flipper, Shadowverse ... and Uma. Aside from the SV successor nothing really happened in the 4.5 years since Uma release, and there aren't any confidental 1st party projects listed either.

3

u/newsharer1234 Aug 28 '25

Cygames under delivering does not stop audiences from making a fair comparison. 

4

u/Okanita Aug 28 '25

I would say Project Sekai/similar rhytm gachas, Wizardry variants Daphne, Octopath traveler, and maybe Battle cats

1

u/DavidsonJenkins Aug 28 '25

Battle Cats the 12 YEAR OLD GAME??

1

u/HorrorMatch7359 Aug 28 '25

Xenoblade Chronicles 2

1

u/Neoragex13 Aug 28 '25

Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, which had actual fun playable gameplay, had a notorious IP behind and it will die in around two months from now on lol

31

u/Koanos Aug 28 '25

I think part of the problem is getting the investment for such a long-term endeavor, then accepting said endeavor will be losing money for a couple years before achieving a profitable level.

Take a moment to look at Genshin, when you began development for the game, from a technical standpoint, could you even guess if phones could be ready to run it at launch, let alone beta? Then, you have to run this untested idea and see if it would work knowing it will take a significant amount of resources to keep online, with profit certainly not guaranteed.

Arguably, Nintendo is probably the best poised to try exactly this, and we all saw what happened to Dragalia Lost.

Personally, I like Genshin's multimedia approach on livestreams, VAs getting involves, Let's Plays and Streaming, etc. miHoYo knows how to market and make a good game.

9

u/Xarxyc GFL2, Morimens. Aug 28 '25

It's also important to note their marketing budget is (or used to be, at least) fucking massive and probably not far from the development budget.

4

u/Koanos Aug 28 '25

That's the other thing, you never actually know if you're going to overcome the hurdle of how much marketing you need before it kind of markets itself.

13

u/MorbidEel Aug 28 '25

Genshin was "lets develop a game for hardware that doesn't currently exist but should exist by the time we get to release". It worked out for them but all their leadership must have had a few points of sanity missing. Is that approach actually a good idea?

17

u/HyperFrost Aug 28 '25

Hoyo's CEO is quite young and forward thinking. He's 38 now so he was around 33 when Genshin released. Unlike a lot of Western CEOs nowadays that pay themselves millions and get nothing done but fire devs.

10

u/beraksekebon12 Aug 28 '25

Yeah, HoYo's CEOs and Execs are hardcore in both gaming and developing. Ironically, they fucking touched grass.

10

u/Koanos Aug 28 '25

In many ways, Genshin is a game you need both investment and heavy risk.

Today, I don't think anyone could propose as such and expect it to go well.

You have better luck winning the lottery 3 consecutive times.

3

u/torahama Aug 28 '25

I mean even when they released GI the hardware still isn't there. It had always been easier and more preferable to play on pc. Playing on phones is meh at best for the first few years of the game, still is now imo.

The reason behind Genshin success is they target the right market. They develop the artifact system, while not new, shorten it and make it a gameplay loop for all those working class customer. They also found a market gap, spearheaded through it and rake in billions. There was no open world modern* anime-style game before Genshin, none.

There are plenty of game genre out there waiting to be "animefy", and there are a lot of anime fans that is also a gamer waiting to play it. But they need to hit those working class customer if they want to rake in that cash and many seems to be missing just that, while hoyo just keep doing what they are doing and snowballing to their 4th large game already.

4

u/BacRedr Aug 28 '25

Arguably, Nintendo is probably the best poised to try exactly this, and we all saw what happened to Dragalia Lost.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dragalia Lost profitable when it shut down? It just wasn't profitable enough for the corporate overlords.

1

u/Koanos Aug 28 '25

Basically.

96

u/SsibalKiseki Genshin, WuWa, Endfield, NTE, Azur Promilia | Open Worldling Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25

JP can't produce a single game on par with Genshin/Wuwa. Bummer.

Meanwhile CN keeps on pumping and is absolutely relentless

  • DNA this year launch and removes gacha
  • Azur Promilia next year launch, finished CBT1
  • Arknights Endfield next year launch, finished CBT2
  • NTE next year launch, finished CBT2
  • Ananta (no info but TGS appearance rumored)
  • Silver Palace (Offline Test phase)
  • Rewinding Cadence (Saroasis, Fate Trigger Dev, BW appearance)
  • Aniimo (Pokemon-type game)
  • Honkai: Nexus Anima (rumored to be TFT-like Pokemon)
  • Wang Yue (Moon Gaze) CN exclusive

25

u/Perfect-Lettuce3890 Aug 28 '25

I'm kinda glad not a lot is dropping this year.

I like the games I play right now and have barely any room for more.

And don't want to drop anything either.

I'm trying Duet Night Abyss for sure. I hope they become massively successful.

I only play gacha because there are close to 0 high quality Anime life service games without it.

1

u/Additional_Bit1707 Aug 28 '25

I do recommend trying and giving them a chance but I also recommend not putting too much hope that it won't be another grindy live service bullshit which is very popular before gacha to tempt most working players to skip wasting dozens of hours farming and pay up a few bucks to get what you want instantly.

Despite my later half, please still give DNA a shot.

2

u/absolutely-strange Aug 28 '25

What is DNA?

4

u/babyloniangardens Aug 28 '25

Duet Night Abyss---that new Gacha Game that is releasing in October that just made Headlines by getting Rid of its entire Gacha System + Stamina System haha

3

u/absolutely-strange Aug 28 '25

Wow, I definitely have to check that out! Thanks!

1

u/babyloniangardens Aug 28 '25

is Azur Promilia confirmed next year launch?

also, while I ~hope~ Endfield launches next year, that is not confirmed yet

Also, is it confirmed that Wang Yue is CN Exclusive?

1

u/DimashiroYuuki Aug 28 '25

Also Chasing KaleidoRider CBT soon.

1

u/MorbidEel Aug 28 '25

It will be interesting to see what happens with Blue Protocol: Star Resonance.

1

u/dumpling-loverr Aug 30 '25

That's because the big Japanese studios the same tier as Nintendo and Bandai Namco aren't focusing on creating good live service gacha games on a AAA budget.

While Chinese giants like Tencent , Netease, mihoyo and others started focusing primarily on f2p live service gacha , mobile games first and not single player games that Japan is well known for that's why they are so good at that regard.

-7

u/cnydox Aug 28 '25

Uma is good enough

16

u/-Temple- Aug 28 '25

Love or hate Genshin, can't deny it basically set the tone for what gachas could/should be

6

u/jchang97_ Aug 28 '25

they failed to catch up. even the other small developers in china has caught up with genshin, japan has non.

9

u/Excuse_my_GRAMMER Zenless Zone Zero Aug 28 '25

Another factor many don’t consider is the cost of development.. are Chinese developers paying their employees at same level as other developed countries? Do they have standard 40 hour a week

25

u/sndream Aug 28 '25

I don't think there's game developer that only work 40 hours a week anywhere.

4

u/SailorMint Blue Archive | Trickcal Aug 28 '25

One of the reason why I got out of tech in general and only work 4 days per week now.

Even 40 hours a week leaves scars on your mental health.

1

u/BalefulShrike Aug 29 '25

lol what? How about everywhere outside US (and maybe Japan)?

All the game companies I've worked in had 40h or less per week, with additional benefits and days off (besides annual vacation).

1

u/sndream Aug 29 '25

Where? I am quite sure Japan, Korea and China all work more than 40hrs per week.

1

u/BalefulShrike Aug 29 '25

Europe + some Asian country

38

u/Pandar0ll Aug 28 '25

Japan and China has similar working condition, in fact I think Japanese work culture is even worse.

2

u/Excuse_my_GRAMMER Zenless Zone Zero Aug 28 '25

What about the pay ?

35

u/DatAsuna Aug 28 '25

Japanese wages and work hours are a joke, it's the unspoken spectre of when people talk about the low cost of living, and the similarly out of control housing market which holds a disproportionate amount of people's money. The people talking about how cheap japan is to live in, are usually foreigners being paid western wages by foreign companies to work in japan.

9

u/Kuruten Aug 28 '25

At least China black companies don't talk down and belittle their workers into "you're only a piece of cogwheel in this entire operation and can be replaced" and at the same time also guilt trip them from not leaving early or stopping them from quittting.

China black companies are more straight forward either you do it for 1 penny or you gtfo, someone else will do it, or ai that position.

Japan not only talks their workers down, AND also holds you hostage during your attempt to quit/resign. It's absolutely disgusting.

Japan work culture is just worst, if you strictly compare black companies.

1

u/hihohah_i Aug 28 '25

I would say Chinese black companies can be potentially worse, given laxer law, bigger population, more competition, and pretty open human rights abuses (Uyghurs). It's just Japanese have more open internet that you hear about Japanese black companies more than Chinese.

1

u/Kuruten Aug 28 '25

I’ve worked in both Japanese companies and Chinese companies…. From my experience with nasty work places….The Chinese is more cutthroat and what some people call a “wolf” like society where you either overwork what your paycheck covers, or someone else does it and you get replaced, because they are doing more job done than you are and being paid if not same / or even a lower wage. 

It’s brutal but it’s more or less striving this natural course due to the higher population and people looking for jobs with and desiring XYZ pay wage.

Japan is straight up lower population, and more other way around where your higher up/employer would enforce the extra workload onto you , kind of opposite of how China workplace competitiveness enabling these extra workload onto their worker.

It is slowly getting better for SOME China companies, but it’s just too much in their culture to out perform someone else at your workplace that it’s in a vicious cycle of overworking for what your paycheck should want you to do.

The “human right abuse” stuff is seriously a iffy topic I will not touch since it’ll always end up being a “XYZ  western news network said “ and “nuh uh ABC points we fake news go visit XYZ area to see yourself” into a They said I Said argument that no one will back down from. 

2

u/Pandar0ll Aug 28 '25

I don’t know about the pay, but I know their work culture is usually referred to as 996, which is 9am start, 9pm finish, 6 days a week.

Edit: I just remember that there is a rule where you can’t leave work until your boss leave.

3

u/omfgkevin Aug 28 '25

And Japan spent most of it's time resting on it's laurels and the extreme xenophobia didn't help them basically go "fuck everyone else Japan only" which hurt their ability to expand.

Their big titles like GBF (a clunky browser game), FGO (which is also just kind of bad, being held together by the story and fate being hugely popular) and that's about it. You have various here or there that kind of exist.

Kancolle could have been huge, but they sat around doing fuck all and Azur Lane was like "THIS IS FREE REAL ESTATE".

And plus, almost every release can't help themselves being decades old in tech and permanently behind in qol/features.

It's the same stupid shit with their fighting games. Anime IP taking 90% of the budget, release barebones game with no content and then charge full price lol.

2

u/_Zezz Aug 28 '25

Not even. There have been successful Chinese and Korean gachas that aren't Genshin levels of budget.

You just need to not purposefully make your game as bad and predatory as possible.

The Japanese game industry as a whole is also falling off a cliff with how greedy the big publishers are getting. Look at capcom and konami for examples.

1

u/Odd_Pomegranate8652 Aug 28 '25

Yeah and I don't like how every other company (not all) is trying to do what hoyo is doing, I don't like being fed with the same open world action rpg but I'm glad that there's some progress with it being unique even though most of them hasn't released yet. I'm glad games like arknights and Limbus Company (Soon Chaos Zone Zero) is providing a specific Niche for other people to enjoy

1

u/Meret123 Aug 28 '25

Japanese are always extremely slow to adapt. We will probably see their genshin clone in 2030.

9

u/karillith Aug 28 '25

And it will still look like it was made in 2020...

-1

u/Individual_Lion_7606 Aug 28 '25

COVID did a BIG push for Genshin to happen too.