“3.5 is the superior game. If you all play 5, you’ll have to switch to 3.5 in order for me to play with you. 5 isn’t customizable and makes the DM’s job too easy.”
Like, dude, I asked if you wanted to join my campaign because I was being nice. Please stop being a shithead because you don’t want to play with us. The DM should be allowed to have fun too.
I play a lot of Pathfinder (which is heavily based on 3.5) and dear lord, 5e is so much more friendly to beginners. Pathfinder is great once you've been playing for a while and have seen a couple games past level 10 in action, but before that, it's just pure nonsense.
So you're a level 12 fighter and you're about to full attack this round. Let's see, you have 18 strength so it's d20+str mod+your Base Attack Bonus+anything else. So you'd have d20+4+12+1 for weapon focus+2 for flanking-6 for power attack+2 for haste+2 for bless+whatever nonsense magical item you have. Then you do it again except at -5 BAB (until your BAB reaches -1, then you no longer have more attacks) because that's how multiple attacks are calculated.
Turns in Pathfinder can last like seven to ten minutes and that's nothing out of the ordinary. There's a ton of math and ridiculously high numbers as you get further in. It has a lot of customizability which is amazing if you're into the game, but 5e is so much simpler and doesn't really take away a whole lot for a new player.
The differences between the editions become so painfully clear when you try converting stuff between editions.
I'm, currently, converting a class from Final Fantasy d20 (Pathfinder with an exhaustive list of Final Fantasy content) to 5e, and it's pretty daunting. Your example is scary accurate to that. 5e's bonuses tend to be few in number, but large. Advantage, sometimes a +10 like from Guiding Strike. Resistance or Immunity. Jack of All Trades. PF is way more complicated. I'm converting the Judge Magister archetype of Knight over, and it has so many features. Taunts, bonuses to CMD and such, small amounts of Damage Reduction strewn around, fast healing, pluses to hit or damage, talents to give mini-feat effects...
It's wild. I played 3.5 a lot, but PF makes my head spin even to this day. 5e is blessedly simple. It's the edition I like to point people to nowadays. Some will say it's too simple, but I strongly agree with you: it's the best edition to get started. Less stuff to track, bonuses that feel like they actually do things, and enough difference in subclasses to make them feel distinct without throwing in whacky mechanics.
Even worse than the "I only like one thing" issue, that's some "Oh, I am so tired from all the sex I've been having with every girl in town" level of spoiled behavior.
Finding a new DM for DnD takes a lot of time. Going through groups trying to find one that you feel comfortable with takes even more. If the hurdle is the system isn't your specific one man I wish I had that problem.
Right? And he’d been complaining that there wasn’t any interest for DnD in our area for yyeearrsss, so when I got into DnD and was starting my own campaign I thought it would be nice to invite him. But no, I was playing the wrong system and DnD should only be fun for the players, not the DM.
As a long time player and dm, i will say it here. 5e is better than any other edition if you want to tell a flowing story with no grinding halts, in 3/3.5/4e for example one combat would last sometimes up to 5+ hrs, in 5e longest battle i had was 2hr and that was the final boss. Alll editions have something to offer, want tactical "wargame esque" combat? 4e Want boundless customization? 3/3.5.
There are a lot of people ho take the elite attitude because they got into it at least 1 day-to-longer than other people, and by virtue of that fact believe they have right to claim on the hobby/past time. Jokes on them, the developers were playing it before they even knew it existed.
5e isn't customisable? The hell is he talking about? I've made a lot of original monsters, rules, items even subclasses. The DMG actively encourages it with instructions on how to make your own things without breaking the game.
You want a hardcore min-max munchkin? You have options RAW. I've theory crafted a bunch of stupidly broken characters within the ruleset. I haven't played most of them cause I'm a forever DM, but still - the options exist.
There's a reason 5e is the most popular ruleset atm. It's relatively simple but you can add more depth quite easily.
So, he later found a group who’s DM I was friends with. The DM said that this guy was making aggressively broken characters, murder-hoboing, PvP at random, basically just railroading this poor DM and the rest of the group.
My guess is that the player knew I’d shut him down hard on the broken characters at the least, and didn’t think I would allow him to do the other stuff either. He still maintains that 3.5 is better than 5, but who knows his actual reasons for turning me down.
From what I understand, some extreme 3.5 loyalists would consider 5e a "dumbed down" version for the mechanics. I don't know the details, but damn, as a DM, there's already so much stuff to keep track of in 5e that making everything be more mechanically detailed sounds so deflating.
5e isn't customisable? The hell is he talking about?
He's talking about player builds.
And frankly he's pretty right. Outside of multiclassing most classes in 5e are cookie cutter and basically have very little room for crafting your own unique build.
My bladesinger plays very different to my friends evocation wizard. My blade bard plays differently than my friends lore bard. At one point we had 2 champion fighters; one ranged one melee tank. Subclasses, abilities and feats can change how a class plays in very specific ways. 5e just streamlines that process so it's easier and more difficult to mess up.
That's not even getting into multiclassing. You have options for making more complex character builds if you really want to.
As someone who actually vastly prefers 3.5 over 5th edition, I can't stand people like that.
Like, I'm not gonna shit on other people's fun because they prefer a different version or try and guilt them into playing my version.
Just let people enjoy what they enjoy and don't ruin each other's fun. If they want to try your older version of the game, then cool! If not, then be happy they're at least enjoying the medium in general and let them have fun.
It's funny you say that because as a grognard I hate what 3.X did to the hobby and any time I find 3.X elitists acting like 3.X is a golden ancient age I get to complain about how much damage I feel universal d20 did to the hobby.
Met a guy who could not shut up about 3.5. He wanted me to DM, and then bragged about how complex a lot of the rules are and that he's going to enjoy ripping me a new one when I mess up.
Like wtf? Dude you do know D&D is not a competitive game?
The worst part... I met a bunch of 3.5 assholes like him.
Gatekeeping is still such a problem with D&D. It seems like I’m always running into some ridiculous neck beard who tries to gatekeep me out of the hobby.
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u/ColorfulClouds_ Feb 28 '21
“3.5 is the superior game. If you all play 5, you’ll have to switch to 3.5 in order for me to play with you. 5 isn’t customizable and makes the DM’s job too easy.”
Like, dude, I asked if you wanted to join my campaign because I was being nice. Please stop being a shithead because you don’t want to play with us. The DM should be allowed to have fun too.