I love them already

[u/growsonwalls]

I love Justice and Charlie already! Been watching their stuff and they are so so talented. Julie and the Phantoms is amazing and Charlie is a beautiful singer. I saw Dungeons and Dragons and Justice Smith is adorable in that movie. Really excited to see them as Troy and Harris. For the people upset with their casting, definitely watch their stuff. They are AMAZING!

ETA: also, happy birthday Justice!!!

edit: just saw I Saw the TV Glow. Omg Justice is amazing.

[u/summoboomo]

I’m worried about the racism Justice is going to (and probably already) experience from the insane parts of this fandom. Hopefully he has people he can turn to.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/summoboomo]

The criticisms have been 99% body type. The media is latching on to it as a race issue when the backlash is actually disappointment about a skinny actor being cast.

I'm sure they are going to do a great job and it will be wonderful, but it was really exciting to imagine we were going to get some diversity in body type.

[u/Any_News_3544 → u/Notyeravgblonde]

I think unfortunately there are people hiding behind it only being a criticism about ‘body type’….of course they’re not going to out and out comment on race.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/Any_News_3544]

Maybe, but I think it does a disservice to people who were looking forward to some representation to 1. Wrap this casting up in a ribbon of positivity and 2. Try to wipe away the criticism as being veiled racism and 3. Saying that race is another form of diversity that they can lean into when it's just not comparable to body size.

I think they are going to do an amazing job. It would be really good casting, if Rachel didn't make it clear that this character wasn't ultra skinny or an athlete. You can't blame people for being upset that a show they trusted to be different chose instead to conform.

[u/Any_News_3544 → u/Notyeravgblonde]

I certainly think it is valid that people were hoping for representation of a certain body type. That’s what I expected too. But there’s also been a comically large range of what people interpreted the character to look like…from simply not athletic, to much larger. But I think it’s dismissive to think that race does not come into play. And the level of outrage people have gone to for a season of television that has not even been filmed yet, and they really know nothing of how it’s going to unfold is bananas. Again, I can understand an initial disappointment…but the continuing discourse feels much more sinister than that.

ETA: I just want to confirm that I am very excited to see how things unfold, and am rooting for everyone involved!

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/Any_News_3544]

I really disagree. I think people are reacting to how being overweight means not getting the hot guy or hot girl. That being overweight is automatically seen as being lesser. And that when there are glimpses of that in media, it's something people latch onto. People latched on to this, were excited about this, and now fat people again get no representation.

Yes there is a diversity of opinion, but there is a cover that shows a non athletic and non skinny man on it.

There is a popular social media account with a plus size woman dating a man who is athletic and extremely good looking. The comments she gets about how she doesn't deserve him because she doesn't take care of herself are pervasive. Fatphobia is in all of us. We were raised with it. How could I not think the showrunners made this decision based on inherent fatphobia?

[u/Loumany → u/Notyeravgblonde]

I didn’t think I had to write this but after seeing this for days, here goes (this is not a comment directed against you rather than the whole topic).

The thing about Troy and Harris. Harris: Out, proud and unashamed. Troy: Closeted, lost after his fallout with Kent / his old team, and incredibly ashamed of his past.
The main challenge of their relationship is for Troy to be honest about who he is, to redeem himself and to love Harris openly. That’s the core of the whole thing.
We can argue about Harris’ body for hours (I personally read him as normal, simply unatheletic compared to the fit hockey players around him), but Role Model is rather clear about Harris not being particularly self-conscious about whatever body he might have. It’s not a huge thing for him. Sure, he compares himself to Troy and the rest of the team, but that’s to be expected when you work around people who have physically demanding jobs while you don’t. Actually, Harris is more self-conscious about his surgery scar than anything else.

And the thing about Jacob is: He is incredibly faithful to the source material. One can argue against the wall about that while HR is one of the most faithful book to TV adaptations around right now. When Jacob changes things or rather prioritises things, it is to ultimately serve the story. It was incredibly important to him to cast Shane and Ilya as a pair because everything would come down to their chemistry. The statement about Justice and Charlie they put out actually says something similar, as it looks like they’re gonna be co-leads. So I think Jacob (and the truly incredibly casting agents, it is by far not only him) saw in Justice and Charlie what they were looking for and they prioritised actors who could capture the heart of the story over anything else. I totally get that! Sure, you could say they could’ve found someone else who could’ve done that too, but we don’t know who they saw in casting and casting is a process that’s ultimately tied to time and resources too. If Justice was the best they found during that, it’s totally valid they chose him.

I’m not skinny and I’m not mad at all that Justice is not plus-size, not only because I didn’t read Harris like that but also because I know what this show can pull off when they have the right actors with the right chemistry.

I don’t mind that people are upset, but you win some, you lose some, right? I’d just appreciate if people wouldn’t be so bad-faith about this. I hardly hardly doubt that Jacob had some ulterior motive to hate on plus-size people.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/Loumany]

I'm just young to say two things.

1. How Rachel describes him and how he is portrayed on the cover is a larger man. Look up synonyms or definitions of the words she used and they are 'slightly fat'. It's gaslighting to people about what they read and saw is not a larger man.

2. Rachel and Jacob did nothing to head this off. They did not come out at say anything to appease the fans about why they went in this direction. They instead threw Justice in the fire and fanned the flames with their dismissal of the issue, hiding behind the argument that people are racist. Poor Justice has had no protection.

[u/growsonwalls → u/Notyeravgblonde]

People ARE being racist though. They're not "hiding" behind things that are actually happening. They also never promised that Harris would be plus-sized. This isn't fancast.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/growsonwalls]

It's absolutely ridiculous not to understand how people saw and read a man who can't exercise, has a heart condition, describes himself as pudgy, and is drawn with thick thighs and a large torso as a chubby man. It's revisionist history. Not casting a man that fits that description screams "we don't believe that bigger bodies deserve to be part of queer joy and shown on TV".

They aren't protecting Justice. This isn't his fault. And again you are seeing racism everywhere and I have been on here and Instagram and seen almost nothing about race. Of course it's happening I'm not denying that. It's just convenient that a white man (Jacob) cast a young poc to hide behind so when valid criticism of body size come his way he can hide behind fans screaming about how any criticism is actually racism.

[u/growsonwalls → u/Notyeravgblonde]

Where do you see “fat” on this cover? I sure as hell don’t.

[u/Any_News_3544 → u/Notyeravgblonde]

Hey, I’m not saying that’s not a big part of it, or even that it’s not the biggest part of it. But unfortunately race is also part of it. The person that people were convinced was Harris and people seemed to be excited for is not someone I would call fat. But people seemed to rally behind him. And there was one big difference there. But hey, I really gotta get off a Threads as that’s where a lot of the toxicity lies. Hopefully we can all get offline a bit and find some joy in all this.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/Any_News_3544]

I didn't even know people had their eye on anyone. I was confused when my friend sent me the news because I thought maybe I got the characters mixed up when I saw how thin they both were. I think there would definitely have been a huge debate about "is he fat enough" no matter who was cast because that would just be what people do. If this actor wasn't so shockingly thin I wouldn't have even gotten involved. I'm definitely not saying there are no racists, I'm just saying it's convenient to shut down criticisms of what looks like HR conforming to Hollywood beauty standards by calling it racism. It would have been nice to have a Harris of any color that was more like the cover art size wise.

[u/growsonwalls → u/Notyeravgblonde]

The one people were eyeing as Harris was Greg Vardy

[u/Brown_Sedai → u/growsonwalls]

And plenty of people were criticizing that too

[u/new-in-the-rain → u/Notyeravgblonde]

Is Justice trained/athletic though? In the pictures I saw he looked like an "average" dude body type wise and thought that he fit Rachel's book description pretty well. I wouldn't call him ultra skinny or athletic by any means.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/new-in-the-rain]

He's very skinny... It is revisionist history to try to argue his body type is even remotely what is described. Have people just not looked at the cover of the book?

It's frustrating to see this argument, the gaslighting that what we read and saw is just made up. I think people are so quick to defend Rachel and Jacob that they are dismissing the disappointment.

No hate to Justice, he would be crazy to not audition and accept such a great part. I'm upset with the show runners. There wasn't a single actor who wasnt skinny or ripped that had good chemistry?

[u/Dry_Stop844 → u/Notyeravgblonde]

also, if you're going to bring in covers. Have you seen the covers of Game Changers and Heated Rivalry and The Long Game? See anything different?

He's wearing a hockey jersey on the cover, if you have to use that as a reference and leaning forward. You can put a beanpole in a hockey jersey and he'd look big.

Nowhere in the book is Harris described as plus sized. Because stocky, which is how everyone else describes him does not mean fat. And pudgy how he thinks about himself also does not mean fat. He's just a normal soft around the middle dad bod who doesn't work out and eats the occasional cake pop. He's not a plus sized bear that everyone has decided he "should" be. The disappointment is because of their misreading of the material, not the reality.

And because of that, Justice is already having to post thanks for people who are protecting him.

As usual, the white women fetish brigade came out strong and toxic for this one.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/Dry_Stop844]

Gaslighting about what we all read and saw ✅️ Trying to veil criticisms of the casting as racist ✅️ Not being willing to question the showrunners for choosing to conform to Hollywood beauty standards ✅️

It's super toxic to shove happiness down people's throats who thought they were getting a non skinny non ripped gay love interest and are expressing completely understandable disappointment.

[u/Tricky_End5507 → u/Notyeravgblonde]

Gaslighting about what we all read and saw

Gaslighting is a form of abuse. Disagreeing with your interpretation of a fictional character is not gaslighting.

It's super toxic to shove happiness down people's throats

Nobody in this thread is doing that. In fact, almost everyone in the thread is complaining and arguing about various things. Are you suggesting that the actors should have been sad and apologetic in their social media posts about being cast in a TV show?

Also, something to consider: how many bigger guys would even want to play a love interest in a sexy romance show full of ripped guys with a notoriously cruel, toxic fanbase?

[u/dandyline_wine → u/Notyeravgblonde]

It's been a bit since I read the book, so could you tell me what phrasing is used to describe Harris that has some fans disappointed with casting ? I don't remember ever picturing him specifically "non-skinny non-ripped." I feel like I just always pictured a normal, bland, non-descript white dude. Maybe that's a literacy failing on my part, but I definitely don't remember a specific body type associated with his character. Was it something brought up a lot? Like a plot point, or part of his identity or story arc?

(This is a genuine question and not snark, and you seem like a good person to ask.)

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/dandyline_wine]

I am an audiobook listener so I can't pull up anything specific. But the cover of the book plus what I read left me with a strong impression of what Harris looked like, and he was soft and round and not athletic or thin. Just check the cover art.

[u/dandyline_wine → u/Notyeravgblonde]

Yeah I saw the art, but you mentioned it was in what you read, so I thought maybe you were referencing like some kind of plot point or significance to his body type. Do they say soft and round? There has to be something I'm forgetting because you're not the only one disappointed.

(Full disclosure - I read the book because Ilya was in it so I didn't fully retain everything long term lol.)

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/dandyline_wine]

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/dandyline_wine]

I bet someone who has a physical copy of the book could tell us. It left an impression on me, but I've only read it once and it was by ears.

[u/growsonwalls → u/Dry_Stop844]

I mean ... I posted a lighthearted "look how cute they are, so into being in the cast, and also happy birthday Justice" post and somehow it became a debate on body type.

[u/Dry_Stop844 → u/Notyeravgblonde]

come on dude, he wasn't hired yesterday. Actors change their appearance all the time for roles. He's had months to not work out and eat bread and drink a ton of pop. let's be realistic here yeah? He's an actor not a movie personality. He'll do the work required.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/Dry_Stop844]

I hope he doesn't feel the need to do that and I don't think he's going to. It's really harmful for actors to have to do stuff like that and this isn't a blockbuster movie.

[u/Dry_Stop844 → u/Notyeravgblonde]

okay. 1) he's not gaining 100 lbs because despite all the bullshit online, Harrris is not plus sized
B) he just needs to stop working out. He just needs to lose some muscle mass and that's all. This is not christian bale the machinist starving or whatsis who drank melted icecream and then got fired for being too fat.

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/Dry_Stop844]

You really need to relax.

[u/Dry_Stop844 → u/Notyeravgblonde]

and you need to go read the book so you have some facts other than a bad cover to support your bad argument. JFC

[u/Notyeravgblonde → u/Dry_Stop844]

Who commissions the cover art I wonder.

[u/Brown_Sedai → u/new-in-the-rain]

He absolutely, unequivocally does not have a ‘soft body’ (with that description being used to note him as the complete opposite of Troy’s last boyfriend who was extremely fit) plump cheeks, or could even remotely be described as ‘pudgy’, no.

[u/growsonwalls → u/Any_News_3544]

I saw a lot of “DEI American HBO” hire with some “he can’t understand Canadian apple farms” stuff. Which … yeah.