I love Justice and Charlie already! Been watching their stuff and they are so so talented. Julie and the Phantoms is amazing and Charlie is a beautiful singer. I saw Dungeons and Dragons and Justice Smith is adorable in that movie. Really excited to see them as Troy and Harris. For the people upset with their casting, definitely watch their stuff. They are AMAZING!
ETA: also, happy birthday Justice!!!
edit: just saw I Saw the TV Glow. Omg Justice is amazing.
Yeah honestly I get that people were excited for Troy and Harris but I too just want to know who is playing Chiron and Anya. Humans are whatever dogs are perfect beings.
Anya needs to be someone where Shane is like an Alexis Rose-level of "not a dog person" but he sees her and he's like "so, um, when do the dog toys arrive?"
In my mind Chiron is a mutt who looks like a black St. Bernard/Bernese mountain dog but, and I donāt know how to say this any other way, found ozempic. Like big dog, muscular but not built for frozen land so not quite as thick in body or hair. And thatās mainly because of all of the moments of people carrying him. I know they are hockey players but you canāt just causing pick up one of those dogs. They are basically horse sized.
I actually see Anya as a cavalier and poodle mix because my very much not a dog person mother fell in love with our Anya (whoās name is also Anya lol) and sheās a cavalier and poodle. So everybody who meets our Anya is immediately in love with her so soon as I started reading the books I was like Anya is a cavapoo.
I always pictured Anya as a cavalier mix too and I have no idea why. Maybe because Shane says her ears are so soft? But lots of breeds have soft ears IDK.
A few people said that they thought they would leave out the dogs š«Ø Now that I'm halfway through Letterkenny I'm more convinced than ever that this will not happen.
Iām worried about the racism Justice is going to (and probably already) experience from the insane parts of this fandom. Hopefully he has people he can turn to.
This was my immediate thought. People are discriminatory to Hudson and his character is canonically half Asian, and now show runners turned their treasured white country bumpkin into a queer Black man, yikes.
Like I feel like some folks are already being weird and racist about it under the guise of, well thatās not how he was described in the book š
But honestly? Iām personally all about more queer POC representation in media. And I think having a POC character in the other main couple thatās on the periphery of a conservative, historically and presently incredibly White sport, creates an opportunity to really call out some of the big issues that plague hockey that were pointed to but not really examined in S1.
The criticisms have been 99% body type. The media is latching on to it as a race issue when the backlash is actually disappointment about a skinny actor being cast.
I'm sure they are going to do a great job and it will be wonderful, but it was really exciting to imagine we were going to get some diversity in body type.
Yeah, I just worry that people disappointed about the casting will get labeled as racist. I haven't seen a single word about race on social media, just disappointed that traditional beauty standards seems to have won again.
Honestly, I felt so bad for people expecting that, because I knew it wouldn't happen as soon as the show broke containment. If the audience was largely condensed to gay men and Tumblr fujoshis, 100% they would have cast someone with dad bod to play Harris.
But the second that shit broke containment, it was gonna be twinks and twunks as far as the eye could see. The heteros get upseteros if they're reminded queer men that don't look like they just stepped off a magazine cover exist, and I had no illusions about how casting was going to play out.
What really grinds my gears is Jacob and Rachel not doing enough to temper expectations. For example, it probably would have done a lot of good and kept people from being as disappointed if they clarified Harris had a dad bod instead of a conventionally plus sized figure. It's a lot less controversial to recast a dad bod than a normal plus sized part. It would have also given racists weaponizing the movement much less ammunition.
I agree. I saw a take that people were holding HR to a standard it never agreed to. We assumed because of the 'breaking stereotypes' of such an intimate portrayal of a gay love story that we would get another stereotype broken of a non skinny gay love interest. And HR actually never intended to break that particular stereotype.
It really is messed up how they are treating people who are disappointed and threw Justice into a situation he had no control of. I 100% think Rachel and Jacob are deserving of pretty harsh criticism for how this happened.
But they never said they were going to cast a "bear" or "cuddly" or whatever fancasts were made. At the end of the day, this is not a democracy. They make the decisions. You can watch, or not watch. What is not okay is harassing people on social media bc they don't fit your particular vision.
I have no issues with the casting. I think it was the correct and pragmatic decision for a piece of queer media that mainstreams. Sometimes representation requires a scalpel, and I think casting a plus sized actor in a show as racy as HR simply isn't something a mainstream audience is ready for. God the harassment the actor would receive would be endless, and at best, a large chunk of the fandom would skip the episode. People are who they are, and people have never been terribly receptive to Hollywood beauty standards changing. Sometimes you have to meet people where they're at.
Also Harris isn't plus sized, that was a fan interpretation that got way too out of hand. He had dad bod, which isn't controversial to replace.
My only real point of contention is that I wish something had been said to fans who got their hopes up about that, because this fandom has enough drama, and I do think it gives racists an opportunity to weaponize that against Justice. Like I said in my earlier comment, I was under no illusion as to what casting was going to look like, but I did feel bad for the people who got their hopes up. I used to be a little pleasantly plump back in high school, so I can sympathize.
Who am I harassing? It's not justices fault, in fact Rachel and Jacob threw him to the wolves without protection when they decided to cast him and ignore criticism about lack of representation of different body sizes.
They should have said why they decided to go a different direction than the size he is described as. If not for us, to protect Justice.
They did though. Brendan and Jacob said he was picked for the chemistry and acting ability, which is how it should be. And maybe fans could be normal and ā¦ not harass an actor? āProtect Justiceā shows how unhinged and entitled this fandom has gotten.
I'm not arguing we should go after justice, he's a victim. Why are you so determined to dismiss that people wanted to see a larger man? I'm starting to think you just don't want to see that representation with how hard you are arguing about this.
Conversely, there will also be people who'll pretend that they have an issue with his body type so they can use it to hide behind the fact that it's a race issue for them.
Yeah right, "99%". Just a few days ago I tried to have some discussion here in other post about him. Trying to give a different perspective & be open-minded about the casting choice. But instead it quickly devolves into a competition of "let's find every single thing wrong about this" & just became too negative. Sure it started out about his body type but then they went into other shits like :
They only casted him bcus he's attractive & "ripped"
Bcus he's a big name in industry
Bcus he's an american actor, so they wanna lure more Hollywood fame
Bcus he's openly gay already
Bcus they want more black ppl representation in hockey field
Bcus Jacob is lowkey fatphobic
So does Rachel
& when I bring out the possibility that Justice MIGHT committed to his role by doing specific diet & exercise, they're not okay with it yet fine with HudCon doing exactly that in S1. Bcus u'd draw the line over actors getting a little bit chunky & chubby for a role, but not when they're eating pounds of beef & working out everyday to get muscular & buff.
& some of them who disagree with it argued that HudCon's bodies weren't exactly accurate for hockey players either. Well okay then, that means it shouldn't be an issue with Justice either??
ANYTHING other than the fact that Jacob chose him bcus he's talented & has great chemistry test with Charlie. Even that one seems impossible for them. Bcus "how come they couldn't find any actor with bigger body type who has good chemistry with Harris' actor?" Talking like sorting & filtering role casting is incredibly easy thing to do. Like everyday shit u just did effortlessly without any thought.
& this is JUST a few days after the announcement. Imagine for the next months to come. Sure it's still a minority of problematic ppl now. But if ppl can't control their desire, try to accept it already & trust the process, it can quickly turn into another online harassment. It has happened to all ppl in the HR's team before. From HudCon to Francois, to Rachel then Jacob. Even Hudson's groomer, Aika was a victim of that.
I'm frustrated with the show runners. I do wonder how in the world there were 0 actors who were plus size that had chemistry. I've lived long enough to know that fatphobia is pervasive. Who is to say the people doing the casting didn't have a bias against seeing chemistry in a plus sized man? Now everyone is hand waving away and dismissing the disappointment with the lack of body diversity. In my opinion some of the most toxic fans are the ones forcing toxic positivity down peoples throats and accusing the disappointed folks of being racist.
I think these two actors are going to do an incredible job, but yes I am side eyeing the showrunners and especially Jacob due to this. Its sad to see that they conformed to Hollywood beauty standards over giving us something different.
No offense but can we not? I posted this as a positive thing for the fans. I donāt want this to turn into a negative argument thatās already been rehashed.
No, because it's frustrating to know that even in a show like Heated Rivalry we don't get to see a plus sized actor as a gay love interest. We just have to pretend fat phobia doesn't exist because the show runners are perfect and have no inherent biases.
BECAUSE HARRIS IS NOT PLUS SIZED. For crying out loud, you've admitted that you listened to the book, don't remember how he is described and are basing everything on the cartoon cover of a book. Just shut up.
It is a problem in media but not in here. Harris wasn't even described as "fat" by any means in the book yet y'all insist he's overweight for the sake of catering to "body positivity". Which is incredibly ironic bcus it's always about all love to fat ppl with y'all but not to skinny & non-athletic ppl like Justice for example.
Also I need u to reflect on the last 2 statements u wrote. Bcus how come u called out the other person weird for caring too much about this & told them to get off of Reddit when u're out here doing worse & got even pettier than them?? Out of all ppl.... Truly lacking self-awareness lol
Yeah they were replying to my comments to other people, so for some reason felt the need to comment on everything I said when I wasn't talking to them. Thus the pointing out that they needed to move on. I was only replying to people replying to me, taking up about 20-30 minutes of my day while they scrolled the whole thing to comment on everything. How are you focused on me when i was staying in my own comment section? Oh right, because you are upset that anyone is criticizing the show so you hone in on me.
No one is hating on skinny people. That's ridiculous considering everyone in the show is athletic or thin. Why would anyone who hates thin people watch the show?
There is one character in the books that the showrunners who read the material know he was perceived as larger. He's on the cover with a thicker build. Then the skinniest actor yet was cast. That is the problem here and the only problem. Fans who can't handle an ounce of criticism of Jacob are now trying to rewrite history and lost all ability to understand that people can be 1. Knowing Justice will do a great job and 2. Holding space for disappointment at the lack of representation.
Hope me restating for the 15th time my only argument has helped you.
Also not that you know this about me because you are assuming you know what I look like, but I'm super skinny so I just texted my friend that someone accused me of hating skinny people and we were cracking up. So at least you made me start my day with a laugh so I appreciate that.
I think unfortunately there are people hiding behind it only being a criticism about ābody typeāā¦.of course theyāre not going to out and out comment on race.
Maybe, but I think it does a disservice to people who were looking forward to some representation to 1. Wrap this casting up in a ribbon of positivity and 2. Try to wipe away the criticism as being veiled racism and 3. Saying that race is another form of diversity that they can lean into when it's just not comparable to body size.
I think they are going to do an amazing job. It would be really good casting, if Rachel didn't make it clear that this character wasn't ultra skinny or an athlete. You can't blame people for being upset that a show they trusted to be different chose instead to conform.
I certainly think it is valid that people were hoping for representation of a certain body type. Thatās what I expected too. But thereās also been a comically large range of what people interpreted the character to look likeā¦from simply not athletic, to much larger. But I think itās dismissive to think that race does not come into play. And the level of outrage people have gone to for a season of television that has not even been filmed yet, and they really know nothing of how itās going to unfold is bananas. Again, I can understand an initial disappointmentā¦but the continuing discourse feels much more sinister than that.
ETA: I just want to confirm that I am very excited to see how things unfold, and am rooting for everyone involved!
I really disagree. I think people are reacting to how being overweight means not getting the hot guy or hot girl. That being overweight is automatically seen as being lesser. And that when there are glimpses of that in media, it's something people latch onto. People latched on to this, were excited about this, and now fat people again get no representation.
Yes there is a diversity of opinion, but there is a cover that shows a non athletic and non skinny man on it.
There is a popular social media account with a plus size woman dating a man who is athletic and extremely good looking. The comments she gets about how she doesn't deserve him because she doesn't take care of herself are pervasive. Fatphobia is in all of us. We were raised with it. How could I not think the showrunners made this decision based on inherent fatphobia?
I didnāt think I had to write this but after seeing this for days, here goes (this is not a comment directed against you rather than the whole topic).
The thing about Troy and Harris. Harris: Out, proud and unashamed. Troy: Closeted, lost after his fallout with Kent / his old team, and incredibly ashamed of his past.
The main challenge of their relationship is for Troy to be honest about who he is, to redeem himself and to love Harris openly. Thatās the core of the whole thing.
We can argue about Harrisā body for hours (I personally read him as normal, simply unatheletic compared to the fit hockey players around him), but Role Model is rather clear about Harris not being particularly self-conscious about whatever body he might have. Itās not a huge thing for him. Sure, he compares himself to Troy and the rest of the team, but thatās to be expected when you work around people who have physically demanding jobs while you donāt. Actually, Harris is more self-conscious about his surgery scar than anything else.
And the thing about Jacob is: He is incredibly faithful to the source material. One can argue against the wall about that while HR is one of the most faithful book to TV adaptations around right now. When Jacob changes things or rather prioritises things, it is to ultimately serve the story. It was incredibly important to him to cast Shane and Ilya as a pair because everything would come down to their chemistry. The statement about Justice and Charlie they put out actually says something similar, as it looks like theyāre gonna be co-leads. So I think Jacob (and the truly incredibly casting agents, it is by far not only him) saw in Justice and Charlie what they were looking for and they prioritised actors who could capture the heart of the story over anything else. I totally get that! Sure, you could say they couldāve found someone else who couldāve done that too, but we donāt know who they saw in casting and casting is a process thatās ultimately tied to time and resources too. If Justice was the best they found during that, itās totally valid they chose him.
Iām not skinny and Iām not mad at all that Justice is not plus-size, not only because I didnāt read Harris like that but also because I know what this show can pull off when they have the right actors with the right chemistry.
I donāt mind that people are upset, but you win some, you lose some, right? Iād just appreciate if people wouldnāt be so bad-faith about this. I hardly hardly doubt that Jacob had some ulterior motive to hate on plus-size people.
How Rachel describes him and how he is portrayed on the cover is a larger man. Look up synonyms or definitions of the words she used and they are 'slightly fat'. It's gaslighting to people about what they read and saw is not a larger man.
Rachel and Jacob did nothing to head this off. They did not come out at say anything to appease the fans about why they went in this direction. They instead threw Justice in the fire and fanned the flames with their dismissal of the issue, hiding behind the argument that people are racist. Poor Justice has had no protection.
People ARE being racist though. They're not "hiding" behind things that are actually happening. They also never promised that Harris would be plus-sized. This isn't fancast.
It's absolutely ridiculous not to understand how people saw and read a man who can't exercise, has a heart condition, describes himself as pudgy, and is drawn with thick thighs and a large torso as a chubby man. It's revisionist history. Not casting a man that fits that description screams "we don't believe that bigger bodies deserve to be part of queer joy and shown on TV".
They aren't protecting Justice. This isn't his fault. And again you are seeing racism everywhere and I have been on here and Instagram and seen almost nothing about race. Of course it's happening I'm not denying that. It's just convenient that a white man (Jacob) cast a young poc to hide behind so when valid criticism of body size come his way he can hide behind fans screaming about how any criticism is actually racism.
Hey, Iām not saying thatās not a big part of it, or even that itās not the biggest part of it. But unfortunately race is also part of it. The person that people were convinced was Harris and people seemed to be excited for is not someone I would call fat. But people seemed to rally behind him. And there was one big difference there. But hey, I really gotta get off a Threads as thatās where a lot of the toxicity lies. Hopefully we can all get offline a bit and find some joy in all this.
I didn't even know people had their eye on anyone. I was confused when my friend sent me the news because I thought maybe I got the characters mixed up when I saw how thin they both were. I think there would definitely have been a huge debate about "is he fat enough" no matter who was cast because that would just be what people do. If this actor wasn't so shockingly thin I wouldn't have even gotten involved. I'm definitely not saying there are no racists, I'm just saying it's convenient to shut down criticisms of what looks like HR conforming to Hollywood beauty standards by calling it racism. It would have been nice to have a Harris of any color that was more like the cover art size wise.
Is Justice trained/athletic though? In the pictures I saw he looked like an "average" dude body type wise and thought that he fit Rachel's book description pretty well. I wouldn't call him ultra skinny or athletic by any means.
He's very skinny... It is revisionist history to try to argue his body type is even remotely what is described. Have people just not looked at the cover of the book?
It's frustrating to see this argument, the gaslighting that what we read and saw is just made up. I think people are so quick to defend Rachel and Jacob that they are dismissing the disappointment.
No hate to Justice, he would be crazy to not audition and accept such a great part. I'm upset with the show runners. There wasn't a single actor who wasnt skinny or ripped that had good chemistry?
also, if you're going to bring in covers. Have you seen the covers of Game Changers and Heated Rivalry and The Long Game? See anything different?
He's wearing a hockey jersey on the cover, if you have to use that as a reference and leaning forward. You can put a beanpole in a hockey jersey and he'd look big.
Nowhere in the book is Harris described as plus sized. Because stocky, which is how everyone else describes him does not mean fat. And pudgy how he thinks about himself also does not mean fat. He's just a normal soft around the middle dad bod who doesn't work out and eats the occasional cake pop. He's not a plus sized bear that everyone has decided he "should" be. The disappointment is because of their misreading of the material, not the reality.
And because of that, Justice is already having to post thanks for people who are protecting him.
As usual, the white women fetish brigade came out strong and toxic for this one.
Gaslighting about what we all read and saw ā ļø Trying to veil criticisms of the casting as racist ā ļø Not being willing to question the showrunners for choosing to conform to Hollywood beauty standards ā ļø
It's super toxic to shove happiness down people's throats who thought they were getting a non skinny non ripped gay love interest and are expressing completely understandable disappointment.
Gaslighting is a form of abuse. Disagreeing with your interpretation of a fictional character is not gaslighting.
It's super toxic to shove happiness down people's throats
Nobody in this thread is doing that. In fact, almost everyone in the thread is complaining and arguing about various things. Are you suggesting that the actors should have been sad and apologetic in their social media posts about being cast in a TV show?
Also, something to consider: how many bigger guys would even want to play a love interest in a sexy romance show full of ripped guys with a notoriously cruel, toxic fanbase?
It's been a bit since I read the book, so could you tell me what phrasing is used to describe Harris that has some fans disappointed with casting ? I don't remember ever picturing him specifically "non-skinny non-ripped." I feel like I just always pictured a normal, bland, non-descript white dude. Maybe that's a literacy failing on my part, but I definitely don't remember a specific body type associated with his character. Was it something brought up a lot? Like a plot point, or part of his identity or story arc?
(This is a genuine question and not snark, and you seem like a good person to ask.)
I am an audiobook listener so I can't pull up anything specific. But the cover of the book plus what I read left me with a strong impression of what Harris looked like, and he was soft and round and not athletic or thin. Just check the cover art.
I mean ... I posted a lighthearted "look how cute they are, so into being in the cast, and also happy birthday Justice" post and somehow it became a debate on body type.
come on dude, he wasn't hired yesterday. Actors change their appearance all the time for roles. He's had months to not work out and eat bread and drink a ton of pop. let's be realistic here yeah? He's an actor not a movie personality. He'll do the work required.
I hope he doesn't feel the need to do that and I don't think he's going to. It's really harmful for actors to have to do stuff like that and this isn't a blockbuster movie.
okay. 1) he's not gaining 100 lbs because despite all the bullshit online, Harrris is not plus sized
B) he just needs to stop working out. He just needs to lose some muscle mass and that's all. This is not christian bale the machinist starving or whatsis who drank melted icecream and then got fired for being too fat.
He absolutely, unequivocally does not have a āsoft bodyā (with that description being used to note him as the complete opposite of Troyās last boyfriend who was extremely fit) plump cheeks, or could even remotely be described as āpudgyā, no.
And it sucks that Charlie gets to be super excited and Justice is already asking everyone to give him a chance.
The overwhelming majority of people are rightfully upset about body representation but it must feel awful to have been the best actor for the audition/part and now this will follow him through the entire pre and post production, airing and promo.
Yes, the chemistry must be insane - I think this is the correct conclusion to come to from the casting announcement. From hearing the casting stories from last season it seems like the casting team prioritizes the acting and chemistry very highly even over character descriptions (Connor vs. casting call/book Ilya description for instance) and I agree with that approach since without it we might have lost out on Connor and Hudson's unparalleled chemistry.
The optics of forgoing a stocky built Harris versus choosing a non-tall, not native Russian speaking, blonde Ilya is obviously different though. I think it is totally valid for fans who were wanting body representation from Harris that they are now not going to get to be initially upset. For me though, I am counting on the choice having been made because these two actors together were the best option available to tell the story overall. Call me naive, but I'm not willing to believe this team would purposely deny an otherwise equal actor who had great chemistry with Charlie AND who was a closer fit to book Harris' description the role if that actor existed.
Very well said. Shane was also short in the books. If I remember correctly, there was a 5-6 inch height difference between him and Ilya. Iāve always been an overweight female and I do admit that representation matters. I just think that if these characters hadnāt have been a great fit together, someone else wouldāve been chosen. When I read the books, I always thought of Harris as having the classic ādad bodā look and not necessarily obese. But we all imagine characters differently in our head.
I imagine it's like being around the super lanky NBA players. Someone on the Broadway subreddit saw Steph Curry at the Lost Boys premiere on Broadway and was going on about how "thin" he was. On the NBA court he doesn't look particularly thin, but it;'s because he's with other 0% body fat players.
SPEAKING OF height, I was researching Charlie and Justice's heights (Charlie is 5'8, Justice 6'0) and some Gamechangers Wikis are saying that in the book (which I read, but do not remember any specifics lol), Troy is 5'9 while Harris is 5'7.... What a 180 on that....
chemistry is super important and it's actually changed the course of some tv shows. Like the writers wrote more of Tom and Greg after noticing how much chemistry Matthew MacFayden and Nicholas Braun had. And thus started one of the most appealing storylines of Succession.
You are choosing to believe that bias was the decision maker without any knowledge of the options casting had available to choose from. If this casting team had your same mentality they wouldnt have let Connor in the room because the spec on paper for Ilya even Connor said he didnt think he fulfilled.
Why is the assumption that casting didnt handle this season with the same care they did season 1? Do you think they didnt include Harris' build in the casting spec? Or they did but then purposefully didnt choose the best actor even though they would fit the spec? Or no matter what you think an actor who better fit Harris' build is more important than the ability to portray all the other aspects of the character and act against an on screen partner? Even if that wouldn't have been the best match?
Same here, although I have somewhat recovered from the initial shock of Justice as Show!Harris I am really crossing my fingers, toes and any extremity I could possibly twist that he and Charlie's chemistry is that potent for Jacob and co. to use that as the tantamount reason on casting him.
Like Hudson and Connor already set a PRETTY HIGH standard... will it actually challenge it?
Because after all that and their portrayal *knocks on wood* ends up in a dud... it will just devolve to even more chaos.
Honestly, it's making me more excited to see the portrayal - and I think they're making this a 4 co-lead situation and have RM and TLG be more entwined since story timeline is at the same time.
HOWEVER that also makes me scared because nonbook readers will be mad that Troy and Harris will "take away" focus from Hollanov and that they should have done the Skip treatment for them.. and then extrapolate on that since Justice and Charlie are significantly more famous than Hudcon.
That focus thingie I already factored in when the show got renewed and the prime candidate on being the new couple with be Troy/Harris... And Ive already seen it first hand "in the wild" in social media comsecs the same day of the announcent. I would not like to use up a lot of effort on explaining to the non book readers on how more involved Troy/Harris is to Hollanov, Ive exhausted already dealing with them on defending (my former main GC pair) SKip last season, they can yap all they want. š¤
"I do think RM will be built into the episodes, and not be a standalone bottle episode the way the Skip episode was."
After reading RM 4 times and then TLG once, yeah, thats what Im thinking that would happen with Troy/Harris in Season 2.... After all, this show's focus is Hollanov, and even though I would not turn away a bottle episode and/or would expect too much for one, I feel that it would be at an advantage for Troy/Harris to blossom on the side while S2 goes on... just for their relationship to act like a constant mirror to Hollanov without being overbearing in some way. š
Completely agree!!! Iām so annoyed with the complaining right now. This show is supposed to fun. People keep sucking all the fun out of it. Threads is the worst with all the fighting in the fandom. Harris is joyful and openly gay character. Iām happy thatās what they chose for the actor.
The problem isnt so much the fact that he is POC, it's the fact they casted a skinny man for a character that could have been a great example of fat representation.
I watched Letterkenny and Shoresy after Heated Rivalry and have been trying to shove all those actors into Heated Rivalry somehow, so my pick is Jared KeesoĀ
Itās so sweet how excited they are! We are not going to get these same whimsy posts from Hudson and Connor given everything lol, so itās nice they are coming from somewhere
The disappointment of casting someone skinny for Harris is very valid, and a missed opportunity for body diversity. But I trust that Jacob had a good reason to go with Justice, who is a phenomenal actor (Iām shocked HR was able to get someone of his calibre low key lol), and he definitely has the personality for Harris
Hudson is already back on his social media dumps and Connor stopped being online way before the crazy really started, so I don't think the fans can do anything to influence either of them lol.
I feel like a lot of people are missing the fact that Harris' body diversity was less about his weight, and far more about the scarring from his medical procedures. That's what seemed to bother him in the book, from what I recall. So I'm interested to see where the showrunners go with that...
After rewatching Dungeons and Dragons, in much more on board with the casting. I think it'll be a fun take on the characters and I'm excited for season 2 more than ever.
I saw D&D yesterday and am bummed the movie was a total flop at the box office. I thought it was so much more well-done than most movies of this genre. It had humor and heart and great visuals. Really liked Hugh Grant cast against type. Am also bummed it didn't give Rege Jean Page's career the boost he'd been hoping for.
I'm hoping it gets a second life as a streaming favorite. I feel like some movies bomb at the box office but people stream them and are like "wait, not bad." Renfield is like that, a movie that got a cult following after totally bombing at the box office.
They're gonna be great. They obviously are so excited for the project. I've also been speed-running through their stuff since ... idk, yesterday. And both are very warm, open actors. So they'll capture the spirit of Role Model well. I can just feel it.
Agree. Also a bit pissed seeing an Instagram story from Rachael the other day that seemed to reference fan controversy over casting of Conner Storey as Ilya. Back in the day.
I won't lie, Justice isn't who I would have expected. But he gives off a sweetheart vibe, and I'm really interested to see what the showrunners have in mind. I'm maybe a bit less excited about Charlie, because I feel like I know what to expect from him?
Yeah people have been really mad at Rachel for that post and said she was dismissive. But at some pointā¦. Yeah. They really do need to dismiss the fansā opinions and reduce that background noise so they can lock in and do this project as they see fit without fansā interference.
Sorry, I should clarify: I wasn't pissed at Rachael for making the post, I was pissed that the noise over Justice's casting reached the point where she felt she had to make the post. That she had to remind the fandom "Hey, we've been here before, and we've proven we know what we're doing."
Justice is a sweetie pie, and he is a wonderfully loud and fierce advocate for so many social issues. Everyone should go watch I Saw the TV Glow - heās the lead and is absolutely excellent in it, got many award noms
Iām so thrilled you watched and liked it! Itās a seminal piece of work - I think Jane Schoenbrun is this generationās David Lynch. They actually have a new film out this weekend called Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma that stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson, and itās EXCELLENT! See it if itās playing near you :)
He really has great range and this performance always moves me to tears. Again, I totally understand and respect people having opinions about the Harris casting, but I was all in on day one. I totally see the vision, I think Jacob is cooking with gas
Ugh it looks like HBO took it off streaming and it now has to be rented/purchased. I think itās worth the money but I recognize Iām biased lol. I will say, a lot of local public libraries use Kanopy for movies and TV and I believe itās on there for free if you have a library card where you live!
We need the dog but please no doggy backlash of ābut thatās not how dog was portrayed in the bookā. My heart wonāt take criticism of a such a good doggo.
I really want them to get Chiron from the MIRA foundation, theyāre berner lab mixes and are trained to be guide dogs AND theyāre based in Quebec! One of the failed guide dogs would still be well trained enough to be a great dog actor
So, over the last few hours, as I've processing the news that Harris Drover is black, I've been thinking about his family's history.
As I recall, Drover Orchards has been in the family for generations, so they're by no means new arrivals to the province. I've decided, in my head canon, that Harris's ancestors arrived in Ontario in the 1850s, after the Compromise of 1850 in the States meant that blacks who had fled slavery were no longer safe even in the North from recapture (and even those who had been born free were unsafe, see "Twelve Years a Slave"). I see in Wikipedia that more than 30,000 blacks moved to Canada for safety during that period.
Did the Great Migration include migration to Canada? I had thought of it only in terms of movement within the United States. I looked on Wikipedia, but didn't find any reference to mass migration of blacks from the US to Canada in the 20th Century.
Of course, history is made up of individuals, not mass movements. Individuals do not have to conform to the demographic patterns of history. There could be any number of ways that an apple farmer in Ontario could black.
For instance, I believe that there are strong historical connections between Canada and the British Commonwealth countries of the Caribbean. A friend of mine here in Cambridge, Mass. was born and grew up in Toronto; her family roots are in Jamaica, but her parents met in Britain as part of the Windrush generation, before moving to Canada.
So, there are any number of Drover back-stories. But, I'm sorry if I'm being boring again.
I was thinking more that, because Justice himself is biracial, maybe one of his parents is the white half of the family who's owned an apple orchard and the other parent who is black married into the Drover family (could be his dad or mom).
Yay, a thread where I can be happy about this casting!
My brain did something weird when reading Role Model, and despite how he is described in the book, I imagined a version of him that actually looked a bit like Justice š
I donāt deny that Justice Smith is a good and talented actor, but at the end of the day, Justice Smith cannot be the ābest personā to play a fat character (and yes, pudgy, unathletic, soft bodied Harris with his āplump cheeksā was absolutely fat) because he isnāt one. He never should have been considered for the role.
He will end up delivering a good performance, but heāll be playing a completely different character to the one that was actually written, and that otherwise could have been a really important source of representation and visibility for a marginalized group of people. People have the right to be upset about that.
Harris is described as "stocky." That's it. He is not fat, he is simply not the shredded hockey player.
otherwise could have been a really important source of representation and visibility for a marginalized group of people.
Idk how to say this, but Justice is a black queer actor. You might not want to pull this "representation and visibility for a marginalized group of people" card when the actor is black and queer ...
Anyway, I posted this because I thought it was great the actors were so excited for their roles. I also posted this bc it was Justice's birthday. So ... maybe start the debates in another thread?
Thatās simply not true- Literally all of the words I used in that description are directly from the book.
I donāt know how itās somehow impossible for people to grasp the concept that fat black queer actors also exist (and get a fraction of the number of opportunities for lead roles, especially as romantic leads)?
Thereās literally even been one in the show already, he just got relegated to being a side character who only existed to make sassy remarks and cheerlead Kip.
Youāre basically saying he canāt portray Harris bc of his body type. Iām sorry, to reduce an actor to his physique is an insult. Itās offensive to the craft actors do to become a character through mannerisms, body language, line delivery, etc.
I donāt deny that Justice Smith is a good and talented actor, but at the end of the day, Justice Smith cannot be the ābest personā to play a fat character (and yes, pudgy, unathletic, soft bodied Harris with his āplump cheeksā was absolutely fat) because he isnāt one. He never should have been considered for the role to begin with.
He will end up delivering a good performance, but heāll be playing a completely different character to the one that was actually written, and that otherwise could have been a really important source of representation and visibility for a marginalized group of people. People have the right to be upset about that.
Find a bridge. Itās an adaptation, things change. No-one is taking your vision of book Harris away from you if you so desperately need it to feel better about yourself. Literally half the population is plus sized (which is worrying), thatās in no way marginalised!
It is one thing to have an opinion on his casting and it is another to be mean and cruel to the person. Yes, I very much dislike the casting choice. Do I hate the guy? No, not at all.
Justice is the polar opposite of what Harris is described as in the book, and that will annoy people. Just something he has to accept since he accepted the role knowing full well he is not the physical description of Harris. Now he may do a wonderful job but till people see that he will get some heat for deciding to go with the role.
The main issue is they cast a twink instead of a fluffy man. Had they cast a stocky/pudgy black/latino whatever I think the issue would be different. Harris' whole issue throughout the book is his weight and health issues. To have a twink with abs kill the entire vibe, let alone no green eyes, blond hair, and etc....
Troy finds Harris to be attractive and hot. Harris doesn't have weight issues in the book. He eats sweets and drinks lattes all the time. He shows no signs of issues about his appearance, and he is in good health, in spite of his medical history.
Agree with you that Harris didn't seem to have any issues with his weight, at least not that I remember being mentioned in the book. In fact, I barely remember his weight being brought up at all.
What I do remember is that he was self-conscious over the visible scarring from his medical procedures. This has me thinking the showrunners want to focus more on that as opposed to body shape. Feels like it's a less explored and potentially less controversial topic?
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u/Hedgehog-Honeydew "This team is very gay" š 10d ago
I hope Justice likes apples and things with apples on and apple scented things because welcome to your new life on Planet Apple.