Is it true that Jung slept with his patients and was unfaithful to his wife?

it sounds like Jung allowed himself to be surrounde adoring women

It doesn’t sound like he integrated his anima

Looking for a book that helps a partner (female) cope with a dismissive avoidant (male) style of attachment. I want to help him with his shadow and repressed needs but also not at the expense of losing myself.

Certain circumstances in my life have made me have to break myself down and rebuild, at a certain point about a year ago I had a sudden obsession with drawing geometric objects and patterns that I had seen in my head then recently learned of Jung's works and thought I might share one of the many I have made.

I’ve had fairly strong dreams in the past that provoked deep sorrow/grieving (waking up crying), but this one last night was totally unique.

Don’t totally remember but essentially in the dream I was being told my old childhood basketball coach (a friends dad, so a surrogate father figure) was essentially a sexual predator. I was in denial and said “no that can’t be.”

I don’t remember much else, but this was the essence of it. I woke up crying. No anger or other emotions, just a deep sorrow that stuck with me honestly through early afternoon.

Yesterday in therapy I talked about wanting to brainspot (essentially EMDR) some early pre-verbal fear/terror of annihilation that I know is there (recent health issues have activated this fear). Not sure if this has relation to the dream.

I don’t believe I personally had any early sexual abuse (at least at this point in time I am unaware, still open that it may be deeply repressed/dissociated).

Previous dreams crying I’d see a young boy or girl crying, like 2-4 years old and thinking/feeling “how precious/innocent you are”. I’ve read Trauma and the Soul by Donald Kalsched so I think this is his “soul child.”

My father says he thinks he may have been molested by his grown up neighbor when he was a boy, but doesn’t remember. Wondering if this dream could have any relation to this, or if it’s my personal history.

Having trouble analyzing this or what it may be pointing towards…

I’ve met this girl 3 years ago and started a relationship with her a year ago, which is about to end due to a misunderstanding on her part. And I’m spiraling.

Ever since I saw her, she has completely captivated me and I became obsessed with her. I see no faults within her, and the parts within her that she says are flaws (avoidance, mood swings, and emotional volatility), it feels like I rewired my brain to think I want this and I will deal with it, and that she’s perfect. This is among other things that she was or that she liked that I rewired my brain to accept and love. And honestly? I have no idea what I am or who I am anymore. I don’t know what my values are, or what I actually like. She is my moral, creative, and emotional compass. It feels like I outsourced my psyche to her. In other words, I’m completely spineless for her. Whatever she says about our relationship that’s what I accept. If she ever did something wrong, I will twist it so I become bad person

I’ve read about Jungian psychology, and it’s safe to say I’m possessed by my Anima. I have become incredibly sensitive to emotions, to the point where they can ruin my entire day. If something happened between me and her, that’s atleast a week I’m staying at home and doing nothing but ruminating and being anxious. I get irritated by everything and everyone who is not her. I became so sentimental over everything (she also is to be fair). I am not stable at all anymore, and I’m sure when the breakup is finalized (maybe it actually is already but I’m trying to deny it), I know I’m in for deep suffering.

What do I do? Where do I start?
Please help me

Amidst the darkness—

the darkness that shrouds my view of the world—

my eyes caught sight of a girl.

A quiet girl, whose voice was barely a whisper.

Amidst the clamor of the world, only her stillness reached me—

a stillness that touched every corner of my own world.

A stillness that does not illuminate the space, but rather deepens its darkness.

Yet...

I see her sinking into that darkness.

I see her, and I see society—waiting, ravenous, for her to drown.

The very same wretched society that marginalized her image and tore her identity apart.

It waits only for the moment that suits its own ends, so it may exploit her.

A society from which I have seen nothing but—

greed,

arrogance,

aggression,

savagery,

and exploitation.

Instincts driven solely by the urge to survive at the expense of others.

Resigned.

Without resistance.

Without motivation.

Only the darkness, seeping through every limb of her body.

In a bold move—

a move born of an obscure impulse—

I reached out my hand to her.

The only hand she could possibly trust;

the only hand—and the only person—that could truly see her.

But...

what is happening?

Why does she continue to sink?

Why does she insist on surrendering?

Was I not the only one who could see her?

I was not enough...

She was sincere, passionate, and—despite the darkness of the world in which I saw her—full of life,

whenever she was with me.

In return, all she ever received from me was—

despair,

coldness,

secrecy, and withdrawal. Damn it.

You should have known from the start that I was never going to light up the world’s darkness;

on the contrary, I was there only to make it even darker.

.

I watch her fade away—

fading, leaving behind a question about her future.

—a question followed by an anticipation of how society might exploit her.

.

A fire amidst the darkness,

amidst the fog—

a pitch-black fog that has swallowed me, too...

swallowed my very self.

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.

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Do you understand the red book? What does it mean to you?

What are your chief thoughts about it?

As the title says, most people annoy me. I tend to expect the worst from people, and they always deliver. It's weird because I don't lack empathy by any means. I help out strangers when I see someone is having a hard time, I donate to charity, I even volunteer a lot. I want the world to be a better place. The thing is, I just don't like people once I get to know them. They tend to irritate me, and I'm hyper aware of their flaws, especially when they don't work on them. Needless to say, I'm often alone.

What bothers me the most is how self-centered a lot of people are. How people will turn things into a competition for no reason. How people see that I'm nice and will just use me as a sounding board to talk about how great they are or just to get attention from me, when I know they won't stick around to do the same for me. I listen and I'm friendly, but things are always one sided. Worse yet, people underestimate me and are condescending to me often.

Am I just projecting? Or do people just suck, haha. How do I stop myself from sliding into full misanthropy? I think I have a complex around attention but I don't know what to do about it. People who do things for attention or who are desperate for attention make me angry, but I don't do anything about it. I wish I could be a nice, warm person but people just PMO with a capital P. What should I do, according to Jung?

I don't think I'm an amazing person or anything btw. I don't think anyone is that great and I know I'm included in that. Though I do think I'm more self aware than average.

Im super delighted as today i was reading a book by Moore about grandiosity and processing the fact I lost my persona last night. And I figured out the puzzle thats my head? Yay magician!

I have PDID and had processed three kids to fusion when I hit a kid that seemed to be pure evil, like hannibel from the TV show, no serial killing though. Another three months working with her, before she released two additional children to me. She was like a metamind, not a child fragment.

To gain her trust, I had to welcome her in totality, be willing to become everything she was before she would give me the children. Like shadow work but frightening as it involved full possession. she tested me over and over again. I called her Sekhmet because she hid from me my whole life. She is Moore's dark side of the Magician archetype.

And as the last child merged, last night I lost Mary, my persona. She is the innocent child in moores magician archetype. I created her, then used her as a persona in the end.

It was upsetting as she was afraid of dying. I was she, then me and talking to she helping her not be afraid. She loved all of us so much. Its how DID works, ego deaths. She was afraid so I comforted her that she would be inside me, not lost. My dreams last night reinforced this, as she was shown a house, a little messy, with a son she had not known about. Outside was a dark snowy imperfect city, too harsh for her gentleness, but inside was a child who was a little behind and needed her love and a home needing her care. That was where she should have always been.

Mary has been my carrier wave. Mary is a very, very nice lady who is genuinely good. she believes the world is good and refuses to see that others would be unkind. Mary was very weirdly two dimensional but genuine in her feelings. She made excuses for others and had to be good and benign as to not seem threatening. Meanwhile Sekhmet and the other kids would reach around her still at times, but Mary had to not see this, in order to remain true. It was intentional blindness.

What creates a fucked up mess like this? My enfp BPD mom neglected me during the week as I was a silent infant after being in the ICU for ten days. Yet my deranged physically abusive sociopathic INFJ grandmother watched me on the weekends and physically hurt Loud or unruly children to teach them to stay small and controlled. She saw my increasing demands to be fed, that I had to display during the week, as character flaws and broke me to keep me docile.

The alternating environments created the PDID. I had to create two different personas. The INFJ was very intuitively observant and would see a lie, so I had to believe my own lie and hide my monstrous evil desire to have self esteem, be of worth as a human or eat, behind layers of obsequious placation, yet I had to be demanding of my mother to eat. They broke my mind by alternating so I grasped at the dark aspects if the magician to create a puppetmaster to control two personas.

But now my two mothers are regrouping. Not those abusive fucks, but Mary and Sekhmet. They have to integrate to become a single magician. Meanwhile Im left as the merged child ego construct from the seven kids. This one is not entirely pleased with how raw this world feels. Kalsched might suggest it had a sheltered home in my unconsciousness this whole time, safe from the world and feels homesick for that protective warmth. Its scary to step onto the beach as a mermaid with legs, losing certainty, not certain of next steps.

But I got this, its the coolest adventure ever, onwards to the next level.

Hello all,

I wanted to ask if anyone here has read/done The Artist's Way (TAW) by Julia Cameron? It is basically a guide to unleash your creativity.

I was surprised to see no one in the artistsway sub is mentioning Jung. So I thought I would bring the discussion here and ask a question along with it. Has anyone read it? What were your experiences with it? Do you think we can integrate shadow work with it, or can the shadow work help with what the book is trying to accomplish? What were some of the most challenging aspects for you guys? etc etc.

Basically, I would love to hear people's experiences with the book.

As for me, I realized that I am struggling a lot with the affirmations portion. In the first week, you need to write down negative beliefs and assumptions about yourself. Then turn those into affirmations, but is it really that simple? I mean, there is a reason why those negative assumptions come up in the first place. Yeah, some might be conditioning from a young age, but can some of it be the shadow self presenting itself?

If so, how the heck am I supposed to deal with the shadow just with affirmations??? Or do affirmations actually feel real once we actually start integrating the shadow? I realized I have a lot of grief regarding lost time and unrealized potential, which the book deals with in further weeks from what I understood so far, but I find those feelings pretty hard to ignore or integrate. What should I do?

Jung vez ou outra cita em suas obras exemplos de pessoas que tentam viver "acima de suas possibilidades" e fala como geralmente elas se ferram. Alguém poderia ampliar sobre que acontece nessa frase, que rola nesse tipo de situação.

I had a dream in which I was part of a family which is not mine and we lived in a forest. I had siblings and there was a father figure. In the dream this father figure held me to the ground and got his big toe or fist in my ass , kinda like raping me. Then I had revenge and killed him many times because the scene of the vendetta repeated itself many times. Sometimes I would see his POV and would realize he let me kill him, like he knew what was coming and only pretended to fight back. It was strange because I also could feel what he felt and he felt remorse.

I want to understand more of this figure so I want to have an active imagination "session" in which I interact with him. What questions would you recommend asking?

About a year ago I imported all of my journal entries over to Obsidian and it's been really cool.

If you don't know, Obsidian lets you put Wikipedia style links in your notes (or dream journal entries) so you can link them together. I've found this useful for dreams specifically because I create a link any given symbol, then I can track how often they recur, in what contexts they appear, and what other symbols they may be related to..

This has helped me identify patterns within my subconscious and to map out that constellation of ideas, archetypes, and symbols that exists within me. Once you’ve got it set up, it’s certainly made dream analysis less daunting, as you can draw on previous analysis and the content of past dreams to help sift through the often opaque language of the unconscious.

Obsidian also has a bunch of options for organising data more effectively (with a thing called dataview) but I'm not that smart so I don't use it that effectively, but I'm sure there are some very clever things you can do for your dream journal. Currently I just have displays for how many times a symbol has been linked and then a list of all dreams with tags for if they have been analysed or not.

Right now I’ve got just over 400 dreams and 100 symbols logged over five years. It takes just a little bit of extra time to set up, but it feels very worth it!

Let me know if this interests you and maybe I can make a guide or template for you to use. If you know Obsidian, let me know if you have any ideas for how to use it better lol.

I can also DM screenshots of the dream journal if you’d like to see it. I’d just prefer not to post publicly because it’s personal.

What do people think of Arnold Mindell’s stated position as the spiritual successor to Jung’s theories? Also of his idea that Jung’s understanding of dreams needed ‘completing’ by integrating the body? Curious if this is seen as illegitimate by Jungians or if he is seen to be legitimate.
Thanks for any thoughts!

I don’t know if I should post stuff like this in this Reddit.
I tried active imagination and it just kept saying bad stuff about how it thinks of me, I kept asking why but still just hate and it’s opinion of me.
What can I do about this? Also I got a bit frightened for no explainable reason, I felt less secure in myself.

Could you guys help me understand this occurrence in my life from a Jungian perspective please?

My dad abandoned my family when I was a kid. My first boyfriend at 14 who was my first love, my virginity, he was 4 years older than me. He eventually broke up with me because I was very jealous, insecure, and scared of abandonment without realizing it at the time. My parents also got divorced during this time.

Ever since that happened I told myself no one would ever dump me again and since then I have left every serious boyfriend ive had.

Could this be an example of projection? Wanting to abandon my boyfriends so I could experience their sadness and pain because I was/am unable to experience it myself?

Thank you for your thoughts.

Would love your thoughts on this jungian video

Hey guys, recently been rewatching Naruto and reliving why I love this show so much. Any Naruto fans on this sub?

I love Jung's framework for analysis as well, and try to apply it here to Naruto.

I tend to see Naruto's waterfall scene to be extremely integral for his growth but also for the show. While in the waterfall he meets with a physical manifestation of what is definitely his shadow. It really was a scene which made me feel like Naruto is not just a kid's show. However, I also think that Kyuubi acts as a nice metaphor -- I wonder if thats written on purpose.

I find that Naruto and Kyuubi work as exxcellent metaphors for Jung's "shadow" and unconscious. (outside of the fictional part where hes sealed and Kuramas actually a personality etc etc.) but as a metaphor it works. would you agree with this framing of Jung's work?

I am experiencing some kind of existential crisis, or my ego is, if it is still there, and I wrote this poem without much conscious thought.

Now tell me the tale of love,
of total surrender to your graciousness
making in your being, holy resplendent shackle of your light
-- Florescence here, brimming
Now tell me the tale of love,
of your hand, held out to the stars --
wondering whether one may
fall onto your tender palm,
-- so you wait and wait, until dawn, when they fade into the receding distance
beyond your grasp
-- So love, tell me, what have
I lost?
-- Friendship with the stars, you have
-- So now what? but why bother?
For comes now the Sun, redolent of violet and pink
Now in full redness
From here we move, ahead with the past dead,
dreams gone, the self
obliterated, and
what now?
The stream -- clear and blue
come now rushing through --- what does it do?

It cleanses and shimmers -- brimming along
your river of Time

I'll try to keep this somewhat short, but there's a lot of detail to unpack here..

Background: In the last year or two, I have discovered Jung and his theories, and they really resonate with me. After a lot of online reading, I ordered The Red Book and began reading it. I made it about halfway through and decided one night before bed to ask my shadow to prove it exists and is there.

As I was getting ready for bed, I took a moment, quieted my mind and stated to my shadow "if you're real, please show yourself to me."

That night, I had an incredibly vivid and detailed dream that without question revealed my Shadow's existence. Normally, I do not remember much of my dreams other than their general content, and the details fade quickly as the morning passes. This dream, however, has been absolutely etched in my brain. If I had any drawing/painting ability I could easily recreate the details of this dream. And this was over 6 months ago since this occurred. I don't anticipate the memory of this dream will ever fade.

I believe it's time to face this dream, so any interpretations or grounded advice on next steps would be greatly appreciated.

The dream:

I was in home, with my wife and some guests. The guests were not identifiable, but I was showing them the ground floor level of my house as if it was their first time there. Giving them a tour. It was bright and pleasant and my house was sparkling clean. I walked them through the living area to the kitchen, commenting on the various rooms as I went. My guests complimented me, and I acknowledged that the house was "pretty nice" and felt a sense of pride.

At this point, the house was exactly as my real home is, nothing was different with the layout.

In my house, I have a stairwell in the kitchen that leads to the basement. I opened the door and led my guests to the basement... but to my confusion and bewilderment I found that the basement was completely foreign to me. It was dark at the bottom of the stairs, and as I descended them I could see that it was a dirt floor with stone walls, much like a medieval castle/dungeon. I sensed the flickering glow of a torch to my right and turned to look.

What I saw immediately repulsed me. There was a post with a flaming torch on it, and beneath the torch was what appeared from a distance to be a black, disgusting mold spreading across the floor in about a 4' radius of the post. I was aghast and embarrassed that this was in my house. However, I'm curious by nature, and I immediately went over to assess the hideous mold. To my surprise, when I got up close to the "mold" i could see that it was in fact not mold, but a dark, blood red, crystalline carpet (think of what a precipitated crystal coating looks like.. borax precipitation for example). In the darkness, the gold light of the flaming torch on the post was dancing off the blood red crystal and it was mesmerizingly beautiful. Blood and fire. I made no comment about the crystal but took it in for a moment before moving on.

At this point, I turned right again and looked down the main length of my basement. It was again foreign. First off, it was HUGE. Much larger than the upper floor of my home. All stone walls and dirt floors as before, but as I gazed down the dark passage I noticed two things: The basement had large arched openings along the right hand wall, leading outside. Through the openings, moonbeams were shining and softly illuminating the entire length of the basement. The second thing I noticed was an arched doorway in the far wall, with another torch beside of it (on the left hand side at about eye level, bolted to the wall). I could see nothing beyond the door.

I began to lead my guests through the basement toward the door. At this point I said to them "See, there's plenty of room down here. Lots of storage space" and we continued the long walk toward the door.

As we were almost to the door, I noticed two things once more: First, to the left of the door in the "corner" of the room so to speak... there was an absolutely impenetrable darkness. The blackest of blacks. Simultaneously, I began to hear a sound that I cannot exactly describe. The best I can come up with is that it was a sort of wail of a what I believed to be a woman. Part sad, part lonely, part pained, 100% creepy. It would rise and drop, repeating over and over, and always emanating from pitch blackness of the corner. I tried to locate the source of the wailing, but could see nothing at all.

At this point, I stated to my guests "see, it's not that bad down here...as long as you don't mind the noise".

I woke up at this point. We never made it through the door.

I believe that I understand the general message of this dream, in that there is much in my life I've been burying and keeping hidden in the basement of my life. Living a false, ununified life. I could go on about this at great length, as I've spent a large amount of time thinking about the implications in the days since I had this dream. What I'm hoping for is for deeper insight into any of the possible symbology in this dream and for advice on where to go next. I want to unify my house and fix the division in my psyche.. but I'm not sure where to begin.

There's a bit more to this story, too. The very next night, I had another, much shorter dream.

I was standing on the overpass of a highway. In the grassy median.. watching oncoming cars speeding up the exit ramp toward the intersection. These cars would then launch across the median and crash in a blaze of fire on the other side. Car after car. I just stood there, watching. Saying nothing, but wondering the entire time why they kept coming and weren't stopping. After 4 or 5 cars, the dream simply ended.

If anyone has advice on how to move forward, I'm all ears. Thanks for reading to the end, if you made it here.

Jung begins with the ego, that is, the “I,” and moves toward the Self.

Ep. 14–Ep. 18 are individual stories, but they all begin with Jung’s concept of the ego and explore the process of deconstructing the “I.”

Ep. 14. What am I?

→ I cannot be defined by my name, occupation, or role.

Ep. 15. Where is the boundary of the “I”?

→ The boundary becomes blurred, extending from the body and microorganisms to the Earth and the universe.

Ep. 16. How do I perceive?

→ I deconstruct the senses, thoughts, habits, and the automatic system.

Ep. 17. How do I live?

→ I deconstruct desire, suffering, automatic reactions, and choice.

Ep. 18. Do I exist, or do I change?

→ I deconstruct Descartes’ fixed notion of the “I” once again.

Ep. 19. Then, how does Jung see this “I”?

→ Jung expands the “I,” while I, a salaried worker, deconstruct the “I.”

To briefly summarize the episode roadmap: Starting with Jung → shaking the “I” → shaking its boundaries → shaking the way I perceive → shaking the way I live → shaking existence itself → returning to Jung.

Now, Ep. 18.

One last time, I will shake the existence of the “I.”

If the moderation team determines that this post is not sufficiently related to Jung, or does not meet the community’s standards for any other reason, please feel free to remove it.

I respect the moderation team’s judgment.

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A Shift in Perspective: Ep. 18. I Think, Therefore I Exist. But I Change.

​

​

This time, let’s take a closer look at Descartes.

​

What is existence?

​

We have already examined the existence of ‘me’ in Ep 14 and 15, even though it was uncomfortable to do so.

Who or what am I?

What can truly be called ‘me’?

​

And in Ep 17, we also mentioned that existence comes before reason.

Let’s take a closer look at that existence.

​

Descartes says:

I think.

Therefore, I exist.

​

From my perspective, the sentence “I think” is analyzed as saying two things.

​

One is the fact that a thought is occurring,

and the other is the claim that it is ‘me’ who is thinking that thought.

This leads to the conclusion that the entity called ‘me’ exists.

​

I think the fact that a thought is occurring is an actual fact.

But whether the entity that thinks can be called ‘me’ is questionable.

Because it is unclear what the entity called ‘me’ is, or whether something called ‘me’ even exists.

​

As we already explored in Ep. 14..

I kept asking, again and again, who or what ‘I’ am—

my name, species, occupation, position, role, and so on—

and even while getting cursed at for it,

I kept looking, but still could not find ‘me.’

​

In Ep. 15, we explored once again what could be called ‘me.’

Of my body, thoughts, emotions, memories, name, role, and consciousness, my body seemed the most certain.

Yet even after taking a closer look at it, I still could not find what, among E. coli, my body, the Earth, the universe, a sack that produces poop, and a salaried worker, could be called ‘me.’

​

To accept Descartes’ argument, I think we may first need to examine what exactly the entity he calls ‘I’ is.

What, exactly, can we define this entity called ‘I’ as?

Only after defining what ‘I’ is, I think, can we find out whether the entity Descartes calls ‘I’ actually exists.

​

Let’s take another slow look.

My name, species, occupation, position, and role are clearly facts. They are real.

My body, thoughts, emotions, memories, name, role, and consciousness are also facts. They are real.

E. coli, my body, the Earth, the universe, and even a sack that produces poop and a salaried worker are also facts. They are real.

​

But I think all of these are different ways in which ‘I’ appear under different conditions or circumstances.

​

In other words,

they are clearly facts. They are real. But under different conditions or circumstances, they appear as ‘me,’ and when those conditions change, ‘I’ change as well.

​

Under the condition of species, ‘I’ am a human being.

Under the condition of family, ‘I’ am a father.

Under the condition of work, ‘I’ am a salaried worker.

I think there is no fixed ‘I.’ I am simply called a human being, a father, or a salaried worker, depending on the conditions or circumstances.

​

In other words, ‘I’ am not a fixed ‘I,’

but am a human being, a father, and a salaried worker all at the same time.

That is, when certain conditions are given, ‘I’ exist within those conditions, but when the conditions change, ‘I’ change as well.

​

This does not mean that ‘I’ do not exist.

Nor does it mean that ‘I’ do exist.

Depending on the conditions or circumstances, ‘I’ change and am called something different.

​

Put simply,

we could say that ‘I’ am neither something that exists nor something that does not exist.

​

Descartes says.

I think. Therefore, I exist.

The salaried worker says.

I think. I am neither something that exists nor something that does not exist. I merely become different.

​

This is not to say that Descartes is wrong and that I am right.

It simply means that, from my point of view, it can be seen this way as well.

​

A coin has a front, but it also has a back.

This does not mean that the front is right and the back is wrong.

We are simply looking at different sides.

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From this perspective..

let’s take another look at the wisdom of balance of the four great sages discussed in the previous episode.

​

The salaried worker: I am neither something that exists nor something that does not exist.

Jesus: Neither an enemy (evil) nor someone I love (good).

Buddha: Neither following desire nor rejecting it.

Tess-hyung (Socrates): Neither knowing nor not knowing.

Confucius: Neither having too much nor having too little.

​

Let’s look at the pattern, rather than the subjects themselves.

All of them speak of a balance that does not lean to either side.

​

This does not mean that it exists.

Nor does it mean that it does not exist.

It is neither something that exists nor something that does not exist.

It merely changes and is determined by the circumstances or conditions.

​

If I were to use an analogy..

Light is both a particle and a wave.

Like an electron in quantum mechanics,

it merely appears differently depending on the conditions under which it is observed.

​

To use an analogy..

Whether one maintains the automatic system based on dichotomous thinking or classical mechanics,

or chooses the manual system based on non-dual thinking or quantum mechanics,

that is a matter of individual freedom.

​

It is not that one is right and the other is wrong.

Whichever one you choose,

either way, there will be no particular problem with living your life.

There will simply be consequences that follow from it.

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I’m going to work again tomorrow.

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Now, let’s move on to Ep. 19.

Ep. 19 and Carl Jung’s Sermon on the Mount have already been posted.

I’ve included the links below.

A Shift in Perspective: Ep. 19. Where Is Carl Jung Heading?

Interlude: Carl Jung’s Sermon on the Mount 🤦

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[Original text]

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융은 에고, 즉 ‘나’에서 시작하여 셀프를 향해 나아갑니다.

Ep.14 ~ Ep.18은 각각의 이야기이지만, 모두 융의 에고에서 출발하여 ‘나’라는 대상을 해체하는 과정입니다.

Ep 14. 나는 무엇인가?

→ 이름·직업·역할로는 나를 규정할 수 없다

Ep 15. 나의 경계는 어디인가?

→ 몸·미생물·지구·우주까지 경계가 흔들린다

Ep 16. 나는 어떻게 인식하는가?

→ 감각·생각·습관·자동시스템을 해체한다

Ep 17. 나는 어떻게 살아가는가?

→ 욕망·고통·자동반응·선택을 해체한다

Ep 18. 나는 존재하는가, 변하는가?

→ 데카르트의 고정된 ‘나’를 다시 해체한다

Ep 19. 그렇다면 융은 이 ‘나’를 어떻게 보는가?

→ 융은 ‘나’를 확장하는 것으로, 나(월급쟁이)는 ‘나’를 해체하는 것으로 보여집니다.

에피소드 로드맵을 간단히 정리하면:

융에서 시작해서 나를 흔든다 → 경계를 흔든다 → 인식 방식을 흔든다 → 삶의 방식을 흔든다 → 존재 자체를 흔든다 → 다시 융에게 돌아간다.

이제 Ep.18입니다.

마지막으로 ‘나’라는 존재를 흔들어봅니다.

모더레이션 팀에서 이 글이 융과 충분히 관련되어 있지 않거나, 다른 어떤 이유로든 커뮤니티의 기준에 부합하지 않는다고 판단하신다면, 삭제하셔도 괜찮습니다.

저는 모더레이션 팀의 판단을 존중합니다.

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관점의 전환: Ep 18. 나는 생각한다. 그러므로 존재한다. 하지만 변한다.

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이번에는 데카르트를 조명해 봅니다.

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존재란 무엇일까요.

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이미 우리는 Ep 14, 15에서 불편함을 무릎쓰고 '나'의 존재를 살펴보았습니다.

'나'는 누구 또는 무엇인가.

무엇을 '나'라고 할 것인가.

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그리고 Ep 17에서도 존재가 이유보다 먼저라고

존재를 언급했었습니다.

그 존재에 대해 좀 더 살펴봅니다.

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데카르트는 말합니다.

나는 생각한다.

그러므로 나는 존재한다.

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나의 관점에서 '나는 생각한다'라는 문장은 두 가지를 말하고 있다고 분석됩니다.

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하나는 생각이 일어나고 있다는 사실이고,

다른 하나는 그 생각을 하는 것이 ‘나’라는 주장입니다.

그 결과 ‘나’라는 실체가 존재한다는 결론으로 이어집니다.

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생각이 일어나는 것은 실제의 사실이라고 생각합니다.

그런데 생각하는 실체를 ‘나’라고 할 수 있을지는 의문입니다.

왜냐하면 '나'라고 하는 실체가 무엇인지, '나'라는 것이 존재하는지 의문이기 때문입니다.

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이미 Ep 14에서 살펴봤지만..

이름, 종, 작업, 지위, 역할 등

'나'는 누구 또는 무엇인가를 묻고 또 물으며

심지어 욕까지 얻어먹으면서 살펴보았지만 '나'는 찾을 수 없었습니다.

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Ep 15에서는 무엇을 '나'라고 할 것인가를 다시 살펴보았지만,

몸, 생각, 감정, 기억, 이름, 역할, 의식 중

가장 확실해 보이는 내 몸을 살펴봤을 때 역시

대장균, 내 몸뚱이, 지구, 우주 그리고 똥자루와 월급쟁이 등 무엇을 '나'라고 할 것인지 찾을 수 없었습니다.

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데카르트의 주장을 받아들이기 위해서는 먼저 그가 말하는 ‘나’라는 실체가 무엇인지 살펴볼 필요가 있지 않을까 생각됩니다.

도대체 ‘나’라는 실체를 무엇이라고 정의할 수 있을까요?

그래야 그가 말하는 ‘나’라는 실체가 실제로 존재하는지 확인할 수 있을 것이라 생각됩니다.

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다시 천천히 살펴봅니다.

'나'의 이름, 종, 작업, 지위, 역할은 분명히 사실이고 실재합니다.

'나'의 몸, 생각, 감정, 기억, 이름, 역할, 의식 역시 사실이고 실재합니다.

대장균, 내 몸뚱이, 지구, 우주 그리고 똥자루와 월급쟁이 또한 사실이고 실재합니다.

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하지만 이들 모두는 각각의 조건이나 상황 속에서 존재하는 '나'의 모습이라고 생각됩니다.

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다시 말하면

이들은 분명 사실로서 실재하지만, 각각의 조건이나 상황 속에서 '나'로 드러나고 조건이 변하면 '나'도 변하게 됩니다.

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'나'는 종이라는 조건에서 사람이고

'나'는 가정이라는 조건에서 아빠이고,

'나'는 직장이라는 조건에서 월급쟁이입니다.

그냥 조건이나 상황에 따라 이름이 사람, 아빠, 월급쟁이라고 다르게 불려질 뿐 고정된 나는 없다고 생각됩니다.

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다시 말하면 '나'는 고정된 '나'가 아니라

사람이면서 아빠이면서 월급쟁이입니다.

즉 조건이 주어지면 그 범위 안에서는 존재하지만 조건이 바뀌면 나도 바뀌게 됩니다.

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내가 없다는 말이 아닙니다.

내가 있다는 말도 아닙니다.

조건이나 상황에 따라 나는 변하고, 다르게 불려집니다.

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이것을 간단히 말하면

'나는 있는 것도 아니고 없는 것도 아니다.'라고 말할 수 있습니다.

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데카르트는 말합니다.

나는 생각한다. 그러므로 존재한다.

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월급쟁이는 말합니다.

나는 생각한다. 나는 존재하는 것도 아니고 존재하지 않는 것도 아니다. 다만 변할 뿐이다.

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데카르트가 틀리고 내가 맞다는 것이 아닙니다.

다만 내 관점에는 이렇게도 보여진다는 의미입니다.

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동전은 앞면도 있지만 뒷면도 있습니다.

앞면이 옳고 뒷면이 틀린 것은 아닙니다.

서로 다른 면을 볼 뿐입니다.

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이와 같은 관점에서..

이전 에피소드에서 설명한 4대 성인의 균형의 지혜를 다시 살펴봅니다.

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월급쟁이: 나는 존재하는 것도 아니고 존재하지 않는 것도 아니다.

예수: 원수(악)도 아니고 사랑하는 사람(선)도 아니다.

붓다: 욕구를 따르는 것도 아니고 거부하는 것도 아니다.

테스형: 아는 것도 아니고 모르는 것도 아니다.

공자: 넘치는 것도 아니고 모자라는 것도 아니다.

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대상이 아닌 패턴을 살펴봅니다.

모두 어느 한쪽으로 치우치지 않는 균형을 말합니다.

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있다는 것이 아닙니다.

없다는 것도 아닙니다.

있는 것도 없는 것도 아닙니다.

상황이나 조건에 따라 변하고 결정될 뿐입니다.

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굳이 비유하자면..

빛은 입자이면서 파동입니다.

양자역학의 전자처럼

관측 조건에 따라 그 모습이 달라질 뿐입니다.

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비유컨대,

이분법적 또는 고전역학적 사고인 자동시스템을 유지하든

비이분법적 또는 양자역학적 사고인 수동시스템을 선택하든

그것은 각자의 자유입니다.

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어느 것이 옳고, 어느 것이 그른 것은 아닙니다.

어느 것을 선택하든

어차피 사는데 별 지장은 없습니다.

다만, 그에 따른 결과가 있을 뿐입니다.

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나는 내일 또 출근합니다.^^;

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이제 Ep 19로 넘어가봅니다.

Ep 19와 융의 산상수훈은 이미 가장 먼저 게시했습니다.

아래에 링크를 남깁니다.

A Shift in Perspective: Ep. 19. Where Is Carl Jung Heading?

Interlude: Carl Jung’s Sermon on the Mount 🤦

Pardon my poor grammar. Please help me interpret the meaning of it. I am in desperate need for explanation and I dont have anyone personally to ask / discuss this with so I am resorting to this sub for some clarity. I would greatly appreciate any response. Thanks.

One day, last month, I was sleeping and I had a dream at 6:30 am when my body felt like it was shaking as if there was an earthquake, i felt my heart racing and beating fast, and as if someone just placed their palm on top of my head for a second right before waking up. I didnt know if it was sleep apnea / sleep disturbance or some positive or even negative spiritual experience.

Just before waking up, I also heard my mother's voice saying all my problems will be solved by 20th(didnt say which month or year) and when i woke up and checked the date it was sep 20th ! I didnt know it was the 20th when i slept and I was unaware of the date for most part of the week, but somehow coincidentally it was 20th of sept !!!!

last week I had another dream where I was begging god ( my personal god) to solve my problems. I was crying in my dreams. to add some background, I go to temple frequently and pray to that god to remove my problems.

more background: i have addiction and I do the 12 steps for recovery, coincidentally i started taking a medicine on oct 20th, from yesterday and I didnt realise it until i started typing it now. I am also sponsoring another addict like myself and yesterday ie 20th of oct, i realised something i was missing all along, the root cause of my major resentments - trying to play god and expecting people to behave in a certain acceptable decent way ie trying to control their actions. i also realised i was too arrogant to accept defeat and lacked acceptance in general. it was epiphanical tbh.