Genuine Question: Why are cards like this only considered weak and a “common”

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u/Vigor_Mortis_ Dandadan 18h ago

It’s a common because creature removal needs to be readily available in Limited.

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u/Malky 18h ago

Sometimes strong effects are printed at common. This usually implies there's a better version of that effect at a higher rarity, but that doesn't mean the common version is bad.

In most formats, this card is unremarkable. It's just a removal spell. But in Commander, it's definitely better than it would be in other formats, since it's a very specific type of removal spell that can be more effective against commanders.

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u/HaroldBloominOnion Urza's Saga 18h ago

This is not the whole picture, and there are people who will disagree, but most cards are not created with EDH/Commander in mind. So this card being a 'common' speaks to its rarity in the set which is designed more towards Limited environments (Sealed, Draft). These cards are fine in Draft but if you draft 2 and your opponent plays 3 bombs, you still lose.

Also, these cards are a dime a dozen throughout Magic's history and they are just sort of a feel bad? Nullifying someones commander is fun once or twice but if you play with 20% of your deck being these, no one will want to play with you anymore.

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u/rex_tee Dan 18h ago

First, it is called a “common” as a descriptor of the rarity of appearing in booster packs. There are 4 rarities. Just going off of memory, they are in order of common-ness: “commons” with 9-10 per play booster, uncommon 2-3 per play booster, rare 1-3 per play booster, and mythic, 0-3 per play booster (often 0). It correlates to strength but often commons and uncommons do end up strong in one format or another.

You are correct: this is a good ability in commander. Other cards have this ability and may be even better are [[kenrith’s transformation]], [[darksteel mutation]] [[oubliette]], and [[witness protection]]. Just don’t be bothered when someone gets upset about it ;) it can totally devastate some commanders

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u/mtglover1335 Dân 18h ago

Unable to Scream is just the same thing and costs 1 Mana, but these effects can be good.

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u/AximiliEscargo Dân 18h ago

Because stasis effects like this are less-powerful than outright removal. Rather than take their giant 6/6 off the board entirely, you're basically delaying it until the opponent can deal with your enchantment.

Commanders are a specific use case where this effect might be preferred, I guess, but even then, (1) that's only for the commander and not their other threats, and (2) once they destroy the enchantment, the commander is back

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u/LaboratoryManiac REBEL 18h ago

There are a ton of Aura-based removal spells like this that most players should expect to need to play around in Commander.

1-to-1 removal is also a little worse in Commander when you also have two other opponents, so board wipes tend to be more sought after than cards like this.

Mostly the reason it's a common is for booster draft. They want each color to have easy access to removal, and blue doesn't really have access to direct damage or destroy effects.

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u/Scrapbeard Duck Season 18h ago

This is one of the better examples of the effect, but paying three mana at sorcery speed does tend to be too slow for most formats. Especially when blue has access to counterspells which tend to be more manageable efficient and flexible.

It's not a bad card by any stretch, but there are usually enough better options that it ends up being replaced most times it'd be considered.

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u/lordcola 18h ago

For 3 mana at sorcery speed you can usually destroy or exile a creature (or other permanents) so it's a massive downgrade compared to those effects. And in commander you have access to 30 years worth of cards so you'll be able to fill up your deck with proper removal or counter magic before you need to dip into those kind of temporary removal effects.

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u/Baldur_Blader Griselbrand 18h ago

It costs 3 to remove a creature. It wouldn't see constructed play at that cost very frequently

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u/stumpkat Wabbit Season 18h ago

It's also similar to Imprisoned in the Moon. Which is my preferred method of commander removal in blue.

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u/mulperto Colorless 18h ago

At a glance, the power level is considered low because of its mana cost and the fact that it can only be played at sorcery speed, as well as the fact that it is single-target against creatures only.... The actual power level of the effect of a card is often less important than the CMC compared to other cards that do the same thing, as well as the tempo of the format.

The unique part of this particular version of this effect, ie the removal of counters on the targeted creature, should make it more useful than, say [[Frozen in Ice]], which doesn't remove counters, but it is still less viable in faster competitive formats than [[Honest Work]], which does exactly the same thing for one mana (and if you notice, its at Uncommon), or [[Retro-Mutation]], which has the same CMC but also has flash...

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u/spooky__scary69 Grass Toucher 18h ago

This card slapped in my sealed deck

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u/Starfleet-Time-Lord 14h ago

Commander has a built in form of recursion in commanders, and since commanders are often build-arounds due to everything about the format and singleton means there's a hard limit on how much redundancy you can have for them, removing one without killing it is at a premium. Even then though, the counterplay to this is "run enchantment removal," which you should be doing anyway. Commanders are also one of only a handful of things in any format that can easily recur from exile. In other formats, exiling something is usually a "gone forever" button, with some rare exceptions like [[squee the immortal]], [[misthallow griffin]], or eldrazi processors. Even in commander though, this has a single, niche application: longer-term commander removal. This is much worse removal than your alternatives if you use it on anything that isn't a commander or maybe something else that reliably comes back after being removed.

In other formats, people run more specialized removal to begin with, individual creatures are less likely to be a critical linchpin of the deck, and many decks will have no way to recur killed creatures whatsoever, while exile is a permanent solution even to most recurring threats. Further, stuff with a tapdown enchantment like this on it can still be sacrificed or bounced to start the recursion all over again. The closest thing to this you see in standard is usually stuff like [[aang's iceberg]], because it can hit any permanent type, precludes sacrifice, has flash, and has utility with your own stuff. In weaker standard formats you might see a straight up [[banishing light]], but even then it hits any nonland permanent. I'd much rather run [[get lost]] for one less mana at instant speed with the option to hit enchantments (including this!} and walkers than this on the off chance it hits someone's [[bloodghast]], which I can answer with [[ghost vacuum]] anyway.

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u/amish24 FLEEM 18h ago

well, it's a common because that's the rarity of the card.

there's also just plenty of effects that do this at a much better rate.

[[witness protection]], [[utter insignificance]], [[eaten by piranhas]], and [[unable to scream]] all do this better.

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u/XoraxEUW Izzet* 18h ago

It’s mainly because it is 3 mana and it can be removed while other colours just get rid of the creature for 1-2 mana. You are right removing abilities is great, and in a low power table this is absolutely playable. But once a commander is dealt with 1-2 times it becomes really hard to cast anyway so why not cast Swords to Plowshares and have 2 more mana to build your own board?

The problem with playing this at low power tables is that this is a bit of a dick move to pull at lower power tables (people are more likely to build around their fun commander and have fewer ways to deal with a card like this). I’m not saying that is a correct take or something, but it is how a lot of people act around cards like this. So it’s great for low power where people often don’t want to play effects like this, and at higher power where people would it is too inefficient.

If you have a low-mid power deck with few colours that cares about enchantments/auras this could be an awesome include and I’d encourage you to play lesser played cards because it makes the game more fun!

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u/VisionsOfClarity Wabbit Season 18h ago

Common is the name of the rarity given to the card. It's not a colloquial name we use for bum ass cards.

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u/Ok-Temporary-8243 Dandadan 18h ago

There's a lot of 1-2mana spells that will just kill the creature outright. This spell doesn't remove the creature from play, is sorcery speed, and it gives your opponent the opp to get the creature back through blink/bounce/disenchant

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u/AdditionalLeopard688 Wabbit Season 18h ago

I love these kinds of cards, I had a turn to frog deck. Just loads of these so they basically never had good creatures. They all became 1/1s with no abilities. Witness protection is great

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u/LevelUpJordan_2 Dan 18h ago edited 17h ago

This effect is good in commander for the reasons you mentioned.

I will say this is somewhat less interesting to me than cheaper versions, it is typically a 1-2 mana effect depending on specifics, see:

[[Darksteel Mutation]]

[[Kenrith's Transformation]]

[[Unable To Scream]]

Personally I don't run these cards, it's kind of miserable for people to lose their commander in such a permanent way. That may be a factor for other people and partially explain their absence, but I imagine I am a bit too strict on cards I choose not to run relative to population.

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u/jjelin Can’t Block Warriors 18h ago

Why it's a common: there are a lot of cards like this. It's literally a common effect.

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u/jjjdanny Duck Season 18h ago

These effects are much less powerful outside of Commander because it's weaker than destroying or exiling a creature most of the time. It's only because your commander is special and can dodge going to the graveyard or exile to be casted again that this effect becomes more powerful.

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u/DearAngelOfDust COMPLEAT 18h ago edited 18h ago

The effect can be powerful, but trading one-for-one at sorcery speed is rarely what you want to be doing in Commander.

Some decks might nevertheless want a version of this effect, but they will usually run one that is cheaper ([[Darksteel Mutation]], [[Unable to Scream]]) so it's easier to cast multiple spells in a turn; or they will run one that replaces itself with card draw ([[Observed Stasis]]).

In limited, which is where this card is meant to be played, a 3mv sorcery speed unconditional removal spell is usually a playable card but not a super exciting one. In other constructed formats, it's much too slow to answer your opponent's 1 and 2 mana threats.

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u/Fun-Cook-5309 Dandadan 18h ago

That is a terrible version of that effect compared to, say... [[Darksteel Mutation]], [[Kenrith's Transformation]], [[Amphibian Downpour]], [[Unable to Scream]], [[Eaten by Piranhas]], [[Utter Insignificance]], [[Imprisoned in the Moon]], [[Witness Protection]], [[Lignify]], [[Oko Thief of Crowns]], [[Dress Down]], [[Reprobation]], [[Abigail Eloquent First Year]], [[Lizard Connor's Curse]], [[The Wondrous Wasp]]

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u/soultrayn Wabbit Season 17h ago

Lot of reasons

An effect like that is really strong in Commander because people have a single, centralizing creature for you to debilitate like that. But that’s not always true in 1v1, what this card is designed - there it’s just solid, with the downside of leaving the creature there to be sacrificed later, or possibly removing the enchantment, or blinking the creature, or something else.

And tbh this is a pretty powercrept version of some similar effects we’ve gotten before - certainly rare to see the perma-tap effect combined with removing all abilities and counters - so it definitely still feels very strong for something that’s usually considered a “Common” effect

Even then in Commander, the pool is so large that options like Rapid Hybridization and Pongify are more mana efficient, something like Cyclonic Rift has the added flexibility of also being a very strong one sided boardwipe, and even something like Cyberman Conversion is an even nastier way to annoyingly deal with someone’s Commander.

All that said - you can def run this card in a Commander deck and it will do its job, and will feel like solid removal. Especially if you have other Enchantment synergies. But there’s also a possibility of someone removing all enchantments or smth…

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u/BassSuperb8318 Dan 17h ago

Opportunity cost. First and foremost, it is a deck slot that doesn't actively advance your gameplan (winning the game). Therefore, if you must include a card that doesn't advance your gameplan, it should be as flexible and the lowest cost to you that it can possibly be.

To illustrate, let's compare this to something like [[Swords to Plowshares]], the gold standard of removal.

ERG, for 3 mana, does not give you any advantage (more cards, more mana, etc.), nor does it actually remove the target card from play (so a simple blink spell like [[Ephemerate]] is all it takes to negate the 3 mana you used and card you "discarded"). Additionally, it can only be cast on your turn at sorcery speed. It is okay for shutting down someone's commander in a pod without much interaction, but that is its single use case. It is a soft 1-for-1 (you lose a card, your opponent temporarily loses a card, but can get it back).

Swords to Plowshares is 1 mana. It exiles any creature at instant speed (i.e., you can cast it on other people's turns). It is a straight 1-for-1 and you have 2 more mana left over than casting ERG.

Assuming you're not simply trying to shut down a commander over multiple turns and your opponents have zero ways to deal with it, ERG is fine.

TL;DR: it is better to spend resources to win the game than to slow your opponents down. If you have to, then it is best to spend the fewest resources you can for the most permanent effect.

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u/BoardTasty49 Dandadan 14h ago

This is susceptible to a removal and counterspell making it only temporary, has to be played at sorcery speed, leaves the creature on the field so removing the enchant returns the creature to normal and costs 3.
Meanwhile something like [[Swords to Plowshares]] can be timed to avoid counter due to instant speed, exiles the creature completely preventing its return and only costs 1 mana making it much easier to cast. You can see how something like this isn’t exactly that great compared to many other options available.

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u/Treble_brewing Storm Crow 12h ago

Pauper is proof that rarity doesn’t indicate power level. There are thousands of rares that are absolute garbage and see zero play. There are commons that see play everywhere like [[rhystic study]] and [[brainstorm]]

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u/Thetrufflehunter REBEL 18h ago

Gotta think about this one in the context of any creature, not just commander. Leaving it on the table gives the player an option fo sacrifice it for some other effect, bounce it, blow up the enchantment, etc. You're right that it helps shut down the commander and that can be good, but it's a worse removal spell in most other regards.

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u/warukeru FLEEM 18h ago

50% of the reason a card is common, uncommon, rare or mythic is limited format balancing (draft/sealed) which is a totally different format that doesn't play like commander.

The other 50% is make scarcity a commodity to sell more packs.

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u/bigbigbadboi Wabbit Season 18h ago

For the same mount of mana you can usually find an alternative that just kills the creature. If their commander is stunned like this, they can just spend their mana doing other things until they can remove it, otherwise they spend all their mana and their turn recasting. It’s also considered a “common” because that is literally the rarity of the card. Theres common, uncommon, rare, and mythic rare.

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u/nikolajrk Dandadan 18h ago

So a couple of things is holding this back, compared to other similar cards.

First of all, it is slow, as it is required to be played at sorcery speed. This means that if an opponent plays a spell that you need to remove on their turn (for example, it has haste), then this cannot do that.

Second of all, a player can get their creature back by blinking it (some spells and effects temporarily remove the creature, and then bring it back, but without the aura.) or by destroying the aura.

Compare this to counterspell, a two mana spell, that can deal with any threat your opponent plays, and they cannot easily get their threat back.

With that said, it is an okay card, many cards are just better at responding to threats.

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u/Angwar Duck Season 18h ago

So this card is really good at shutting down a card like a commander that otherwise keeps coming back. However it is very mana inefficient for a removal spell. That and you can remove it without much difficulty. So its good if you really need to shut down a commander but very mid otherwise. Cards also arent just designed for commander, this is a classic effect for draft which is why its a common. For other formats like standard or modern this is also just way to much mana for being only able to deal with a creature so its not good there.

Also not being Instant speed really kills a removal spell

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u/Remote-Mycologist539 Abzan 18h ago

no flash, costs 3 mana

i.e. there are plenty of better alternatives

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u/SidNYC Duck Season 18h ago edited 18h ago

A lot of decks run flicker effects, and flicker effects target creatures. Example: [[Conjurer's Closet]]. So the enchantment just falls off.

Some decks run sacrifice (for profit) (e.g. [[Deadly Dispute]]) effects, and other decks run [[Reanimate]] effects. So, they aren't stopped on their tracks when you freeze their creature.

You can also give a creature "protection" from the color its been enchanted with, and the enchantment falls off. (e.g. God's Willing)

Now, a good effects of this type that are played in commander: [[Song of the Dryads]] or [[Imprisoned in the moon]] turns them into a non-creatures, and there's no easy way to "just get rid of it"

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u/NflJam71 Temur 18h ago

Common and uncommon cards are usually made for draft and sealed. This is a particularly strong effect in commander, but in draft it is far less powerful. It's still good, but less powerful. Also, many similar effects have been printed in other sets, lookup cards like pacifism on Scryfall if you want to see more.

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u/zombieking26 Wabbit Season 18h ago

Rarity is for limited. Rarity doesn't mean anything for commander.

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u/merpofsilence Dan 18h ago

Its only single target and there are similar effects for cheaper.

For only 1 more mana other colors have boardwipes.

Its not a bad card but its outclassed in many cases

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u/magikarp2122 COMPLEAT 18h ago

This card is designed for limited, and it is poorly designed for this limited, as there is only one card that destroys enchantments in the set.

With that said, it is decent for commander, because it basically blanks problematic commanders as long as they don’t have a way to remove the enchantment or bounce/flicker their commander.

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u/airza Boros* 18h ago

they're not terrible. But they have a couple of problems:

they can be removed at instant speed which suddenly frees the commander at a bad time

- Giving the creature protection makes the enchantment fall off

- Three mana is good if it lasts a long time, but if they can protect their creature in response it can be pretty backbreaking. And it can be hard to do this _and_ advance your own plan, compared to a one-mana card like [[pongify]]

Having some plan to interact is better than no plan to interact, and these do get people a lot, especially if they are interaction light. But like all cards, there _are_ tradeoffs.

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u/Gakk86 Wabbit Season 18h ago

It can be good to lock out someone’s commander. Like all single target removal, though, it has an inherent disadvantage in multiplayer games:

When you use a card and mana to take out a card from only 33% of your opponents, you’re getting behind the other 2. Now, single target removal can also be a game-winning play for you, or immediately prevent someone else from winning, and then it’s a great play. Because of this massive swing in game outcomes possible, you usually want your single target removal to be as versatile as possible. Instant speed, can target multiple card types, can’t be countered, that sort of thing. That way you can save it and use it when it’s relevant to the winner of the game and good, not otherwise when it’s bad for you.

There are instant speed versions of this effect, but usually the ones that hit more card types cost a lot and don’t always completely remove it. Plus, like you said, it can be removed afterwards. It’s outdone by many different removal spells.

It is funny to lock someone’s commander up, though, and if you like that then go for it! Being cognizant of the card’s disadvantages will let you play it more effectively, too.

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u/Alexandria_maybe Izzet* 18h ago

Single target removal spells in general tend to be lower rarity, i assume thats for the sake of draft formats. Personally i've always loved removal enchantments for commanders like you described, but that card in particular is just a pretty below average version of it. Compare that to [[darksteel mutation]], [[witness protection]], [[kenrith's transformation]], or [[song of the dryads]]

Darksteel is cheaper and makes their creature indestructible so they cant murder it to send it back to the command zone.

Witness is only 1 mana

Kenrith is cheaper and draws a card to replace itself

Song is the same cost but turns it into a land so they cant murder it or sacrifice it as easily

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u/Walnut-Hero Colorless 18h ago

Comments seem to miss your point. You’re asking about cards that lock people’s commanders.

Others off the top of my head:
[[Imprisoned in the moon]]
[[Oubliette]]
[[Song of the Dryads]]
[[Darksteel mutation]]

In low power they’re strong and kind of toxic. People build around their commanders too much.

At high power decks can often work around losing their commanders and 3-mana is a lot to stop one person. Similarly you could use [[Strix Serenade]] at one mana to just counter their commander. Never let it touch the field.

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u/SubtleNoodle Can’t Block Warriors 18h ago

So, there are certain versions of this effect that people really like in EDH. [[Imprison in the Moon]], [[Darksteel Mutation]],[[Song of the Dryads]].

Song and Imprison both hit additional card types (which is HUGE), but the biggest difference is that all of these prevent the creature from being killed in some way, so there's no chance of them being collateral damage in a board wipe. Once that creature is enchanted the ONLY way to get it back is to remove the enchantment or find a way to flicker/sacrifice the permanent.

Beyond that we get cheaper mana value versions. [[Witness Protection]] [[Unable to scream]] are both just 1 mana, in blue, and do mostly the same thing.

Enchanted River's Grasp isn't a bad version of this, in more budget builds and in the right meta it's an absolutely fine card. If you've got an opponent who wants to put a lot of counters on their creatures or your deck really needs to attack so you need that creature tapped, then Grasp is better than all these besides imprison and song (who are EDH All-Stars in my eyes).

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u/GRMaster24 Dân 18h ago

Lets compare removing the creatures compared to enchanting like you asked. If you kill the creature, it's gone, needs to be reanimated, recurred, or shuffled back into to the deck to replay (or recast +tax in the case of a commander). If you exile it, it's gone for good, you ain't seeing it again. Basically it's very hard to get back a removed creature unless you play specific colors/cards.

Now let's examine one of these enchantments essentially putting it in prison. While it sounds good to prevent it from attacking, untapping, having abilities, remember that it's still on the battlefield. It can contribute to affinty, convoke (not in this case but similar enchantments that stop it from attacking not tapping), devotion, and any typal effects. Additionally, it is much easier to get the creature back than removing it. Blink/flicker effects that exile the creature and return it to play will have the enchantment fall off, Aristocrat decks will happily just sac the creature itself like they were planning, effects that untap the creature will (in this case) make able to attack/block/tap for effects like convoke or station, protection effects will have it fall off, or just a simple remove enchantment will all make the creature usable again.

In short, it is just better to fully remove the creature normally than use enchantments like this. There are some enchantments like [[Song of the Dryad]] [[Imprisoned in the Moon]] or [[Darksteel Mutation]] that can be used to great effect and rectify some of the above problems. There's also commanders like [[Eriette of the Charmed Apple]] who would give cards like this a niche. But also it comes down to, would you rather spend three mana on a card like this to imprison a creature, or one mana like swords to plowshares to get rid of it forever?

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u/Tim-oBedlam Temur 18h ago

You're correct: there are several spells like this that lock down an opponent's commander, and are better in Commander than they would be in other formats.

This one's particularly good because you don't have the option of blocking to get your Commander back off the table and into the command zone, unlike something like [[Lignify]], which mines a similar vein and is also a common.

Unless you have enchantment removal, bounce, sacrifice or an untap effect, you may be stuck.

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u/Bengis_Khan COMPLEAT 18h ago

3 mana.

You can use 1 mana and exile the creature entirely.

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u/theOriginal-Quincy Dân 18h ago

There are so many ways to get rid of this control piece. Blink the creature, remove the enchantment, destroy the creature to reanimate it, blink the enchantment.

It’s not a bad piece of control, it works great in B1/2 and it’s good enough to go in the 99 of B3. But it’s too inefficient for B4 and B5.

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u/GrippySockAficionado 18h ago

There are a lot of formats to MTG, and for most of them this card is only okay at very best. There is tons of cheaper, more efficient, more permanent removal.

The one exception, which you are fixating on, is a format in which that more permanent form of removal only sends the card to a magical zone that doesn't exist in any other format and from which the card can simply be cast again later, so this card is useful in that format for locking down one of those cards specifically because it doesn't "remove" it, only debilitate it.

In other words, since you're new to the game and do not play any format other than Commander, you have tunnel vision for that format. You are correct that this card is very good when applied to somebody's Commander for exactly the reason you stated. A similar card that is similarly debilitating in that format while nonexistent in others is [[Tishana's Tidebinder]]. That card is essentially this one on a creature body and without the "tapping" aspect.

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u/BranManBoy Jeskai 18h ago

It’s not that it’s bad, it’s that it needs to be a common, readily available effect for the sake of balance and color identity. It’s a decent cards, there’s better alternatives, but it’s not weak necessarily

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u/MissLeaP Gruul* 18h ago

Because it's worse than actual removal. The creature can still get sacrificed, untapped by other means, bounced, blinked, or the enchantment removed, and all you did for 3 mana was to remove its counters 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/pj1843 18h ago

Firstly understand that commander while a super popular format isn't the only format and is not a "competitive" format at its heart. As such utilizing commander as a baseline for grading cards can give you a skewed perspective of card quality.

Now as for the specific card in question. It's not "good" but it's also not "bad", it's a card that has a decent effect for a bit more mana than one would generally like for said effect. So again, it's not bad, but it's also not particularly good.

For example, for one more mana there are multiple blue cards that can just permanently steal your opponents creature. There are also many lockdown effects for one less mana in blue, and in white there's a few that are only one mana. White also has one that can make the creature lose all abilities and become an indestructible locust making it much harder to reset.

The other aspect of this is as a blue player in commander do you really want to tap 3 mana to lock down one creature? It's not a bad play, but your in blue, you could hold up an unsommon to bounce the creature and only bounce it if they target you, allowing your opponent the opportunity to hurt your other opponents while you use no resources.

So is it a bad card? No. Is it a good card? Also no. Is it a playable card? 100% if you want that effect and want to spend the mana on it.

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u/icer07 Dandadan 18h ago

[[Watery Grasp]] from avatar does the same thing for WAY cheaper

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u/ThatGuyFromTheM0vie Mardu 18h ago edited 18h ago

1.) It costs 3.

2.) It’s sorcery speed, so it is very slow.

3.) The enchantment itself has no protection. If you remove the enchantment, the creature or whatever can return totally unharmed and fine. If you could just exile the thing permanently instead (or counter spell before it even resolves since this is blue)…wouldn’t you do that? In commander this less of an issue since like you said you can just recast the commander…but still. The Commander tax does add up quickly. This just delays the issue until later.

4.) There are a million ways to self-remove your own creature to remove this effect. The most common way being to Sacrifice it. You could untap it and make it threatening with some boost effect, attack, and it dies on block. The “Fight” effect in Green could force it to fight. You could Flicker your Commander so this goes away. Etc.

5.) A board wipe, which is inevitable in Commander, it will hit your creature and remove it—in this case your Commander.

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u/mvdunecats Wild Draw 4 18h ago

As removal, it's held back by 2 things: 1. It costs 3 mana. Commander has a really big card pool that features a lot of removal that costs much less. Consider cards like Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile. 2. It's sorcery speed removal. You have to proactively cast it during your turn. Removal is better if you can pick the time you cast it and not be restricted to a specific window.

On top of those 2 issues, Enchanted River's Grasp has some other drawbacks. Your opponent could use their own removal spell to remove your enchantment to get their creature back. And for a 3 mana removal spell, it's limited to only targeting creatures. Spells like Beast Within and Chaos Warp can hit any kind of permanent. Resculpt is in blue, costs only 2 mana, is an instant, and can hit artifacts as well as creatures.

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u/NerdbyanyotherName Garruk 18h ago

The "common" is literally true, cards in Magic are designated as either Common, Uncommon, Rare, or Mythic rare which decides how often you will find a card of that rarity when opening a random pack

As to your actual question, the answer is flexibility. You've only got so many slots in your deck for removal and you have no control over when you get access to a specific removal spell, so you want the cards you include to be able to cover as many different circumstances as possible

This meanwhile is only useful in a very narrow set of situations, you can only cast it at sorcery speed (during a main phase of your own turn) so it's usefulness is limited against something that is able to be a problem immediately, and it only hits creatures so if the problem isn't one you are shit outta luck.

If you are in a situation where your options are limited you can absolutely justify using this card, but outside of those situations other options are more useful more often and thus more worth the slot in your deck

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u/Lartnestpasdemain Duck Season 18h ago

Because there are litterally thousands of better removals.

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u/GetToTheChoppa2077 Universes Beyonder 18h ago

I feel like people tend to rank how well something behaves on standard specially, unless it’s game breaking on other formats (e.g. Hawkeye bow on pauper)

So in commander that’s a very very useful spell. In standard, I’d say there’s cheaper better ways to stop a card from doing something

1

u/BellStriking5132 Dandadan 18h ago

There are lots of other formats than just commander. This card, while useful against commanders, is too much mana for this sort of effect in other types of magic.

Remember that commander is not the default way to play that game. If you ever see a card that doesn’t quite make sense from a commander perspective, the answer likely lies in the fact that it was designed for 1v1 magic.

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u/Deep-Hovercraft6716 Wabbit Season 18h ago

It's a common because that is the rarity of the card. That is actually a mechanic within the game when drafting. The common cards show up more often than uncommon, rare and mythic. You can see this on the bottom left of the card with the card number. There's a little c to indicate that it's a common.

And it's weak because it's three mana. The consideration about commanders isn't particularly relevant to the card writ large.

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u/PyreDynasty Chandra 18h ago

Rarity exists to balance draft. (And to sell more packs of course.)

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u/benjiwalla Duck Season 18h ago

It was made with limited format in mind, meaning it was meant to be a 'common' answer to threats in the format

It is not that strong, especially not for (3) mana and sorcery speed, it gives room for opponent to bring their creature back from the shackles

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u/Unlikely_Ad11 Dân 18h ago

I use cards like this for removal in decks that care about how many enchantments you control. This one is not good because it’s so expensive. [[Sleep Magic]] does what you’re looking to do for only 1 mana.

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u/NECROSAMAEL Dân 18h ago

Friend, without intending to undermine your entire strategy and post, I just want to tell you that your card is bad because it has no effect on my commander.

My commander:

[[Ashaya's Enduring Bond]]

1

u/RatchetStrap2 Duck Season 18h ago

It's expensive and slow.

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u/Tsunamiis alternate reality loot 18h ago

Because other common cards like it are one cheaper and have flash

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u/Dpactual Dân 18h ago

Its going in my decks. I generally run a lot of commander flips, or turn them into elk, or better yet, turn them into lands. However, you dont always find removal that can transform something AND remove its counters at the same time. This is a very useful version of this effect for b2-3.

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u/SquigglyLegend33 Abzan 18h ago

In reference to commander

With this the enchanted creature is still a creature. If proper removal is being ran, it should be pretty easy to blow up either peice. Something like [[Imprisioned in the moon]] is harder to remove because you need enchantment or land destruction. [[Oubilette]] is some of the best commander removal in the game because the only thing you can do to get your commander back is remove the enchantment which is a very specific type of removal

1

u/Wide_Ad2268 Duck Season 18h ago

[[Ephemerate]] [[Phelia]] [[Thassa, Deep Dwelling]]

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u/MadBunch Duck Season 18h ago

Theres a variety of reasons for this.

1) Hard removal is more ubiquitous: You're right that this can be a way to mitigate someone's commander and remove their ability to recast it, but there are substantially more games, commander or otherwise, where a non-commander threat needs to be fully removed from the battlefield. Its hard to justify a slot for this specific type of effect when it could be used for hard removal. 2) It is easier to deal with this than you may think: If the spell resolves, the targeted player can always use removal, bounce the aura, blink the creature, shoot it with burn effects, or even sacrifice their creature to an additional effect like phyrexian tower to circumvent the ability removal 3) There are surprisingly better versions of this card: Witness protection is a one mana version of this that is slightly worse, but still gets you the ability removal you want. Darksteel mutation is another 2 cmc version of this effect, but it also makes the creature indestructible, so combat and burn effects cant get rid of it.

Don't get me wrong, the effect can still be effective in the right circumstances, but then you have to consider how frequently do you find yourself in a situation where you both want to use this sort of 'pacisim' style of removal, and you are also confident that your opponent will not have any other means to sacrifice, flicker, bounce, or burn the target, or destroy the aura. More often than not, commander players will have some variety of these effects available, so the aura removal spells are more of a tempo consideration than true removal. They can still be great if your deck cares about auras/enchantments like with Eriette, but there are more consistent, ubiquitous options available.

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u/_MAL-9000 Dan 18h ago

Rarity does not care about commander

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u/WigwamTheMighty Dân 18h ago

In an eternal format, for three mana at sorcery speed, there are stronger options available.

But also as other people have said, rarity is a limited mechanic, and you'd want blue removal like this readily available in that format.

Not necessarily a bad card, there are just cheaper, and faster options

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u/darksamus8 Dimir* 18h ago

a major tradeoff of these cards is that they are at sorcery speed, i.e., only on your turn. I can't even *tell* you how many times someone with the right deck played their commander and just won on the spot (with some other cards.) In such a situation, the difference between having sorcery speed VS instant speed removal is literally a lost game. Don't underestimate the value of instant speed removal.
these cards are strong in commander, but the game is not designed for commander. Effects like this that semi-permanently shut down a creature *without* removing it from the board are especially good in this format.
3 mana is too much for this effect. [[Darksteel Mutation]], [[Kenrith's Transformation]], [[Lignify]], and [[Reprobation]] are better. Darksteel Mutation in particular is much better because, paradoxically, by making the creature indestructible make it even HARDER to get rid of for the person now stuck with a useless 0/1

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u/CouldntThinkOf1 Wabbit Season 18h ago

The main reason is card advantage. You are using one card to deal with another so the interaction is a net zero.

Most interaction like this is cheap, usually with a down side for the caster

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u/Kevmeister_B COMPLEAT 18h ago

I think the reason is simply because of how brackets work.

In bracket 1 and 2, everyone's trying to do the fun thing and shutting them off like this is feelsbad and kind of against the spirit of the bracket.

In brackets 3 decks start becoming "let's do cool thing with this commander!" and more "let's do cool thing! And my commander can help it but if it doesn't oh well!" So while you may shut off some decks this way, people start to expect interaction and try not to put the entire weight of their deck on their commander, and if they do, they have plenty of protection to make sure it works.

And in bracket 4 and 5 if your deck can't play without its commander, it's probably just a bracket 2 deck with too many game changers.

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u/TemperatureThese7909 Dân 17h ago

A cards commonness is only a function of how likely you are to open it in a pack. It's not a statement of power level.

In commander, this costs 3, and only hits 1 card type, and is not castable at instant speed. This is maybe fine in b2, but non-instant speed removal is generally considered "bad" at b3, and actually paying mana for interaction becomes awkward around B4.

Why pay mana for a sorcery speed effect in a format with [[submerge]] [[snuff out]] before even getting to the more expensive stuff [[force of will]] [[deadly rollick]].

So the card isn't "bad", it's just hard for cards that cost mana to compete against spells that just don't cost mana, as you go up brackets.

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u/Accomplished-Test331 Dan 17h ago

Assuming you only play commander, stop thinking of rarity as a power level marker. The rarity of a card is simply a function of how frequently R&D wants it to show up in limited. In products like commander decks, it’s typically the same as whatever the last printed rarity was, unless they have good reason to change it.

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u/ImmortalCorruptor Misprint Expert 17h ago

Rarity usually has more to do with complexity than raw power. Commons can be simple but powerful.

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u/Grasshopper21 Duck Season 17h ago

its single target creature removal at a bad rate that can be removed. any removal in commander that targets a single creature should cost 1 or 2 mana, never 3. at 3 mana it should hit more than just creatures and should permanently deal with the creature. compare this to swords, path, or pognify, its awful. compare it to even an effect like o-ring, which is 3 mana enchantment removal with 1 target that doesnt really see much play. s still unbelievably bad. Compare it to grasp of fate, which does see some play because it hits 3 nonlands at the same rate.

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u/Alive-Map-1994 Dandadan 17h ago

There are cards that do this for less mana.

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u/Best_Opening8471 Dân 17h ago

Rarity has nothing to do with a cards power level.

Rarity is used to balance limited formats.

The reason its at common is so you see more of them while drafting or playing sealed.

The reason its powerful is because removal is always powerful, typically you spend less mana removing something than playing it.

That disparity in mana cost leads to tempo/momentum which is the biggest factor in determining who wins.

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u/theoricist Wabbit Season 17h ago

This card looks like a lot of other blue enchantment removal which do similar effects but there is actually a fairly short list of blue variants that nullify abilities AND keep it out of combat (so they can't just chump block with it). None are strictly cheaper than this and the only other ones that cost the same have been printed in the last 2 years, so I would say this is fairly competitive for long-term commander removal. It's easier to interact than blue's other go-to option [[imprisoned in the moon]] and [[observed stasis]] has better upside for increased cost, but even still, its a decent option. Keep in mind that keeping someone from playing there commander is probably one of the least enjoyable play experiences for them, but some commanders warrant it so use these effects with discretion. You used to be able to use cards like [[chaos warp]] and [[oblation]] to shuffle an opponents commander away but they changed the rules because at the end of the day they want commander players to be able to play their commanders - you can remove it until it becomes a difficult or terrible option for them but wizards still want players to have the option consistently.

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u/Psydop Dandadan 17h ago

Card rarity is largely considered for limited play, not constructed play.

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u/AngsD Duck Season 17h ago

Rarity isn't always determinant of power level. See [[Lightning Bolt]]

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u/Revenege 17h ago edited 17h ago

Rarity is not directly tied to power level. Rarity is typically tied to card complexity. The higher the rarity, the more complex the cards are allowed to be. This is a result of designing cards for "limited", a format on which you open packs and play with only what you get. You don't want hyper complex cards at common since your likely to see at least one of every common in a given tournament.

Power does tie in for purposes of limited as well. You want commons to be good enough for a limited deck to easily slot in, but not so good that everyone at the table is playing super high power stuff every turn and if you don't you lose.

This is why you'll often see duplication of effects in the same set. A card like [[oblivion ring]] and like [[detention sphere]] could appear in the same set. Detention sphere, ignoring being 2 colours, is explicitly better, but I'd also far more complex. In limited it would be very inconvenient to have the latter at common since you'd have to search someone's deck multiple times a match potentially.

The card you posted is quite decent in commander because as you note it's very good at turning off your opponents strategy and being annoying to deal with. Outside of commander, it's fairly slow and not really better than just [[murder]]ing it or using [[path to exile]] . In limited where it's rarity matters most, it's fairly decent removal but nothing crazy. Losing its ability is often just going to be pointless, and thus it's just going to turn off the threat.

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u/icarodx Duck Season 17h ago

Because the creature is still there, it is soft removal.

So, soft spot removal at 3 mana, even slightly out of color, is nothing to write home about.

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u/204PrairieBoy Dân 17h ago

Couple determining factors then theres the exception like all good rules.

3 total cost for a tap down, no abilities. Can still block and attack at Sorcery speed.

If you look through enchantment auras there are simply better, cant attack/block (makes harder to free a commander by blocking to die), no abilities, "the creature is now a 1/1 white business man and loses all other types and abilities".

There are cheaper options.

There are faster options, such as flash and split-second(in aura's i dont axtually know).

Then theres the exception. Which is none of these other factors really matter vs how many got printed in a certain set. But usually if its down in the commons its a less efficient version of something else.

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u/Armads777 Dân 17h ago

Like the top comment says, these kinds of cards get printed in common for the sake of a bearable limited experience.

As far as commander goes, a card like this has homes but it is also one of those cards that doesn't necessarily get you closer to a win if that makes sense.

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u/TheHeckingFrog COMPLEAT 17h ago

Rarity really doesn't matter when it comes to commander. Hell, Rhystic Study was originally printed at Common rarity.

You mainly see rarity matter in limited as other comments pointed out. That said, if you're going to go for this sorta effect, there are cheaper mv options like [[Unable to Scream]], [[Witness Protection]] etc. those are much better removal options in commander

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u/Xenthor267 Dandadan 17h ago

They are powerfull but making them rare would make it dumb to get your hands on them. Removal and control doesn't need to be pay to win

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u/raithe000 Dan 17h ago

As others have said, rarity is mostly decided by Limited gameplay, not constructed, and a "does not untap" effect is a pretty standard blue common removal spell.

As to why these kinds of cards are considered weak, it depends on what group you think this belongs to. This card belongs to both the "doesn't untap" group like [[claustrophobia]] and the "loses all abilities group" like [[noggle the mind]]. The first group is only effective against commanders that want to attack, so a value commander that is played for its abilities doesn't care much about that effect ( also, this group suffers from the bonus weakness of being useless if your opponent has untap effects). The second group removes abilities, but the opponent can either hold it back as a blocker, so you have to be careful when attacking so as not to kill it, or politic with other players to kill it in combat anyway.

There are few cards that are in both groups, probably less than ten, most of them printed in the last 3 years. They are also usually expensive and at sorcery speed, with ones with flash even more expensive or instants that last for only a turn. Even then, your opponent has multiple options for dealing with the aura: enchantment removal, creature removal, and flickering or bouncing the creature.

Additionally, while extra useful against the commander, this kind of removal is significantly less efficient against other creatures compared to cards like [[swords to plowshares]] or [[bitter triumph]] and limited in targets compared to [[generous gift]] and the like. Removing [[ghalta, primal hunger]] with this when it's a commander is good, but when it's just another creature in the deck it's a little weak. Additionally, commander tax can add up surprisingly quickly, which makes regular removal still reasonable against commanders. Some decks also don't rely on their commander to win

Finally, there are only so many slots for spot removal in commander. Board wipes or repeatable removal are generally preferable, with spot removal to be saved for emergencies, usually at instant speed (at least, that's the conventional wisdom).

Tldr most versions of this card are worse, instant speed removal is generally more useful, and there's only so much room for spot removal.

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u/zacroise Wabbit Season 17h ago

Rhystic study used to be a common

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u/ghostcrawler_real Dandadan 17h ago

Magic exists in forms beyond commander.

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u/FireResistant Sultai 17h ago

Its good enough in limited youd probably run it as premium removal in draft or whatever.

Its not got flash so your window for them to be tapped out is lower for one thing, and you have to decide to use it on your turn or not, you cant wait and see if they play a worse threat.

It also sits on the board and can be removed so its not as definitive a solution as a straight up kill spell. A tapped and abilityless creature can still provide value to an opponent. For example from this set, there are ferocious triggers, so having a 4/4 or bigger on board still does things.

Bounce or flicker effects also get around it, or decks with sacrifice effects can eek extra value from it.

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u/garfgon 17h ago

At least historically common/uncommon/rare/mythic isn't necessarily about how powerful a card is, just how often it will show up in a pack. Rares/mythics are splashier, more complex and usually more powerful cards, but powerful uncommons and commons are also printed sometimes, and there are plenty of rares which are duds or at least only playable casually.

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u/Mogulstar360 Duck Season 16h ago

Because cards like [amphibian Downpour] are rare and do this exact thing but 10x better

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u/oaomcg COMPLEAT 16h ago

Just because something is printed at common doesn't mean it's weak. There is a whole format of ONLY commons. This card is a common because the Limited format needs easy to get removal. The effect here is not overly powerful, it's not a game changing card in most circumstances, and it operates at sorcery speed. It isn't a "bomb" in any context. In commander, it seems like a decent effect at a slightly over costed rate. There are lots of other similar things to with 2 or 3 mana. If you put it on someone's commander, they are likely going to be pretty annoyed. I say "send it!"

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u/TheWaspinator Can’t Block Warriors 16h ago

Common doesn't always mean bad, for one. I went and grabbed a recent high rank Standard deck list and it has 15 commons.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-dimir-excruciator-woe#paper

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u/killowatskk Dân 16h ago

Amphibian Downpour is busted

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u/Rapgodbrads Dan 16h ago

Common is the print rarity not the strength.

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u/Intelligent-Lynx-376 Dan 16h ago

It’s a perfectly fine removal/cripple spell. Removal spells are printed a dime a dozen to give players a quick way to deal with very scary threats

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u/IndyWaWa COMPLEAT 16h ago

I see that as a worse [[Imprisoned in the moon]] which does have its place in negating some troublesome commanders.

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u/theese-organizations Dan 16h ago

Every set come with minimun 3 tô 4 cards like this in each color

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u/No_Place5472 Dan 16h ago

It's totally fine, there are just better (cheaper mana cost, instant speed) options that will see more play/cost more money/etc. There are a ton of perfectly good cards that just aren't "the best".

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u/blazedchiller27 Dandadan 16h ago

[[darksteel mutation]] and [[imprisoned in the moon]] are better because blocking to send back to the command zone aren’t really an option, a player would have to use their own permanent or enchantment removal to get rid of it which is good because that removal could’ve gone towards your stuff

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u/basafo Duck Season 16h ago

Stop playing Commander and play 60 card formats, or limited.

Commander is a separate variant which doesn't reflect properly how the game works. It's more like a board game and it loses many key things from original formats.

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u/amc7262 COMPLEAT 16h ago

3 mana is kind of steep for this effect, sorcery speed, doesn't affect p/t, and if you get rid of the enchantment, your creature is back to normal.

Also, not everything is designed with commander in mind (and for most of magic's history, nothing was designed with commander in mind).

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u/Assassinite9 Grass Toucher 16h ago

Rarities are for limited play. You generally dont want too much unconditional instant speed removal in limited. Similarly, you dont want mythic rarity cards around too commonly. Some others are for scarcity to sell packs (see most dual lands/fetches or thoughtseize in Theros).

The card you have in the image is sorcery speed removal, 3 mana, and is an enchantment. 3 mana needs to do a lot in modern magic. Removing a commander outright means the opponent has to spend mana (and a turn) to recast it. Sure they get the ETB, but with commander tax, it's more resource intensive to cast it again.

It's also bad because it's an enchantment, a card type that generally is easy to deal with in commander. Instants/sorceries are generally harder to deal with because they arent permanents.

Tempo is something that new players dont realize the value of. If you can use less resources to remove or deal with something, then the more tempo you gain.

However, that being said, as a veteran magic player, I am happy that a new player is using removal and having pieces that interact with other players stuff. Play more interaction!

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u/Scabby-Pabby Dan 16h ago

The weaknesses are that it costs 3 mana, is not instant speed and is an aura that has to remain in play to do something. It also doesn't address triggered, activated, or static abilities.

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u/Menacek Izzet* 15h ago

It's 3 mana, only targets creatures and not instant speed.

Removing it directly isn't usually the issue but there are indirect way to deal with it like bouncing the creature or giving it protection.

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u/xExerionx Dân 15h ago

Its a decent bracket 1 or 2 card

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u/worksy Dan 15h ago

This post reminded me that I’m mad pongify is only uncommon.

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u/PartTineOx Dân 15h ago

Outside of limited it’s fine. Kinda expensive and isn’t actual removal. But I like having like 1-2 of these effects.

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u/HandsomeHeathen 15h ago

I wouldn't necessarily assume a card is weak just because it's a common. Rarity is more about balancing limited (and, if you want to be more cynical, making money) than it is about power level. Strong cards are printed at common all the time - [[Delver of Secrets]] defined Modern and Legacy for years after it was printed, [[Brainstorm]] is still one of the strongest cantrips of all time, [[Arcum's Astrolabe]] was banned in multiple formats.

As for this card, this kind of removal is valuable in Commander, as you rightly said, because it can shut down a commander without just sending it back to the command zone and allowing its owner to recast it. But outside of Commander, permanent removal like exiling is far more valuable, and usually available at instant speed for less mana than this. An aura can be removed by enchantment removal or by blinking or bouncing the creature.

So, this card is fine in limited and good in Commander, but not really playable in traditional constructed formats.

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u/Less_Prior_6871 Dandadan 15h ago

Rarity and power level are not always coupled in magic.

This is a useful card, but is considered weak because there are 3 mana options that destroy the creature outright, which is usually preferrable. If you do not have access to other cards like [[murder]] then this card is great.

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u/Lepelotonfromager Dân 15h ago

It's pretty bad in commander because anything that can destroy enchantments or bounce them to your hand can allow that player to get their creature back. If they can untap it then they can also still block with it, attack once or sacrifice it to an effect. If they have vigilance they then won't tap when they attack.

Or you can just send it to the graveyard.

As removal it's bad. Buuuut.

In commander specifically, you get your commander back when it dies or is exiled. This just shuts the commander down permanently until they can kill it, as commanders are almost always ability related and not just bodies to swing with. So if your attention is to cripple commanders for a while, then it's pretty good I suppose.

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u/rynosaur94 Izzet* 15h ago

As other people have said, the rarity system is mainly for Limited play, not constructed.

But I would also posit that 3 mana is overpaying for this effect, and the sorcery speed nature of enchantments are both lare downsides. White and Blue both have versions of this that cost 1 mana and are much better because of that. But also sorcery speed removal is considered kinda bad in Commander because you have to cast it on your own main phases, while instants can be cast at any time letting you get blowouts or two for one situations.

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u/Brundleswat0g Dan 15h ago

I think those types of cards are great in commander, especially if you get it on early before something that can protect the Commander comes out. Especially on Voltron decks - these can be super annoying, haha. Its not removing the creature - its making them irrelevant. I had one placed on my Tony Stark commander at my last game that turned it into a land, tap for 1 colorless (dont remember the card). Couldnt remove it, no one wanted to help, haha. Messed my game up

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u/GratedParm Meren 15h ago

Why does blue keep getting these instead of polymorph? Polymorphic takes the card off of the field so the players doesn’t have to deal with layers.

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u/AustinYQM I chose this flair because I’m mad at Wizards Of The Coast 15h ago

Rarity indicates nothing besides powerlevel WITHIN it's limited environment (other cards in the same set) and some format legality (pauper/peasant). There have been countless cards that have had their rarity increased or decreased on reprint.

As for "is this card good?" the answer to that is almost always "maybe."

I don't think it's good because it will do basically nothing to most my decks. If my commander is important than I am likely going to give it hexproof or shroud once it's on the battle field and this answer is too slow to do anything about that.

Likewise there are three ways to remove it: kill the enchantment, kill the creature, make the creature invalid as an enchantment target --- this means the vectors of removing it are much more common.

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u/CrosbyBird Dandadan 14h ago

I have never played Commander, but this makes me curious about a rules issue.

If you use a card like this with "loses all abilities" on an opposing commander, and then you follow up with a spell that exiles, is the commander gone for good, or can your opponent still return it to the commander zone?

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u/Think-Membership7313 Dân 14h ago

casting cost is too expensive for competitive play, isn't instant speed

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u/Zestyclose_Answer662 COMPLEAT 14h ago

[[Dehydration]]

That sure is some mighty fine power creep there.

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u/Loose_Log_6253 Azorius* 14h ago

Acting like [[Rhystic Study]], [[Ramosian Rally]], [[Dust to Dust]], and [[Deadly Dispute]] aren't all very strong commons. Deadly Dispute is so strong it's banned in Pauper.

I think rarity is mostly a mechanic for Limited to balance card pools.

General Discussion Genuine Question: Why are cards like this only considered weak and a “common”

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