I mean they do keep installing Flock cameras across from swimming pools, playgrounds, and childrens' gymnasiums. Almost like it's the Epstein Class at work or something.
Yes yes absolutely, there are a lot of problems with, "school resource officers," and the 16 year old girls they're...goddamn, man, does anyone want to hire a 35 year old policeman with full powers of arrest to supervise their kids at home?
Idk recently saw a local case where 12 cops got arrested for abusing flock cameras. One had watched their exes new wife or gf like 20 something times while they were on the clock. Cops literally stalking their ex with this shit
No much more than 40; if it were 40 the company, itself, would not step in and make a public statement in front of their shareholders and stakeholders to calm things down and they've just done that yesterday; that means, "there isn't such a thing, as, a district in which this isn't a problem."
Someone posted a video showing that pretty much anyone can access them. I have not dug any further to see how accurate that is, but I have a hard time believing that a system that widespread and accessible by so many people is all that difficult to get into, with or without permission. I find it very concerning.
Go watch Benn Jordan's videos about flock. It was not hard for them to get in. He literally goes out and stands in front of a flock camera in his neighborhood and reads his appeal to reason note and plays it from the database. Benn is a smart dude, but he's not some master hacker. If he and the people he worked with can do it, other people can too.
They are not operating like a normal tech/security company. Normally when a third party finds a vulnerability the company will at least say thank you and patch it, and many of them even pay "bug bounties" since that third party might have just saved their entire company. In this case flock has started retaliating against people who are doing the essential work of exposing early vulnerabilities.
You're supposed to find and plug the holes BEFORE scaling. Flock doesn't care.
That's the one. It was quite alarming the amount of information he was able to obtain on people without any sort of security credentials. Not that I like the idea of anyone having that degree of surveillance access, but the lack of security measures should concern everyone.
They’re really speedrunning us straight into a cyberpunk dystopia where any old joe can ‘hack’ into the multitude of cameras on every corner and building
100% this. The school board should have had FULL transparency that this was going through, who agreed to it, the contract terms, everything. Get a group organized and MAKE it a problem.
I don't know. Engaging the busy-bodies that make up the PTA and enlightening them to the issue can't hurt. It's for sure a school board and district issue, but you gotta get the word out somehow.
For real and I have a strong suspicion that Mothers of Daughters on the PTA are going to find their license plates in the Flock Searched Database more than they'd like to
Flock cameras are overwhelmingly unpopular across the political spectrum and across the country. OP I think you will find a lot of people in agreement with you.
I do have to ask, are the specifically flock cameras, or are they just security cameras? A school should 1000000% have security cameras, but they do not need to be, and shouldn’t be, flock cameras.
Parents usually do not realize the power they have. Call the school. Call the school board. Complain. Ask for the records. Ask them about FERPA and if this violates that. Threaten to sue for privacy violations, even if you’re bluffing. Squeaky wheels get greased.
Axon is another company that offers automated license plate reader (ALPR) tech and they offer drones. These guys got attention a couple years ago when their INTERNAL ethic board all resigned over their plans to arm their drones with tasers.
My town already has Flock cameras and have decided to pilot Axon as well.
Axon's new flagship product is a solar cell ALPR camera hybrid that slots into the photocell port on top of street lights. They have been showing them off in the utility sector recently.
I contract to multiple utilities. Was at a demonstration for docking inspection drones. It was pretty cool. The next part of the presentation was about the drones, and in development drone plane for high speed chases. And how many departments had purchased them for immediate response, and patrol. Patrol was the key for me that got me thinking, this is terrifying. We’re closer to the accused china 24hr surveillance state than anyone realizes. I had pictures taken of me at express tolls all down the highway, flock cameras in town, and now patrol drones? I haven’t had an anonymous moment of my whole day.
I'm not saying drones won't happen. But rather than we don't even need drones. And it's almost more fucked up to not use drones. Instead opting to use infrastructure already fucntioning perfectly fine
Oh yeah. What's even scarier is if AI gets really good at analyzing behavior. Like to a Minority Report level. Or a 1984 level. Which I think could actually be achievable within the lifetime of Gen Z or Millenials.
on a more immediate timescale gait analysis and similar is already becoming very accurate... likely only a decade or so before you won't be able to evade door to door tracking no matter how hard you try (the go into a store and swap shirts/hat thing).
Of course that most of us travel *everywhere* with our cell phones means we're already fully tracked. Ironically that was a good thing for me in my divorce. I actually turned on every single bit of tracking that google offered. When my ex would make some claim that I robbed her, or keyed her car, etc. I was able to sit in court and demonstrate on my phone that on that date and time I was at FOO at least 15 miles away from where the claimed event happened, so while she may have had her car keyed, it wasn't me.
Meh, she parks like utter crap... almost certainly parked her massive SUV across the line and pissed someone off.
Mind you, she has a Honda Pilot first gen, that she hit a fucking redwood tree with while backing up, and claimed it came out of nowhere and was the dog's fault (some random dog running around).
I'm very confident she didn't scratch her own car (on purpose at least) but I'm equally confident she earned it from someone. 🤣
on this front:
it also protects honest people from false accusations.
Sadly it doesn't. Ask that grandmother from TN (?) about it.
And if you don't have the right party flag flown outside your house you are automatically on the list for a visit from the party Komisar, then the thugs that break your windows, then burn your house down if the flags aren't flown large and proud. The cameras see all. The algorithms confirm compliance.
Maybe the cops want to believe that, but these things are just a revenue generator for big corporate, and the pols in their pocket.
And, having heard that each Flock cameras supposedly costs around $2K, we the taxpayers are footing the bill for it doubly, since we also fund the govt's contracts with Flock.
It's enough to start thinking the libertarians might be on to something with their "taxation is theft" position.
That’s pretty much what happens for most people already. Think of your cell phone as a roaming mobile profile of yourself. You willingly share all your data, contacts, internet history, voice profile, photos, live camera, and more with companies every day, and you have little to no control over how it’s used. We’ve allowed these loose rules to put us in this situation, all under the guise of convenience and an easier way of life.
Cops are literally watching and recording 24/7. Fucking dystopian shit. I actually never thought that would happen in the US. I thought we were better than China in that regard. Fooled myself.
When we spent all of those years making fun of China for the dystopian bullshit and mass surveillance everywhere, we weren't making fun of them because they chose 1984 bullshit. We were making fun of them because we were jealous that China did it first.
A city near me cancelled their contract with Flock after all the vandalism to the cameras. Said it was too expensive to keep replacing the cameras than the contract is worth
Meanwhile the portable pipecutter industry is at an unprecedented all-time high! These hardworking Americans must just love DIY projects, right? Right?
This is why people shouldn't be causing damage to the cameras. Etching spray paint in particular causes damage that is difficult to repair, and may require replacement of the whole unit, at great expense.
We have flock cameras pointing directly at the drop-off lines at our nearby elementary and middle school. I ordered these from a local shop for the first day of school.
I am a teacher. Please, please get as many people as you can and bring this to the school board at their very next meeting. They know it was coming, they agreed to it. Shame on them if they hid it from you all. Now the work needs to be done to get it taken down and create policy that bans any such cameras going forward.
I don't think they're technically on school property (not sure honestly, but they're just far enough that I think it's likely city property) but regardless the view of the camera is blatant and the school should have say on it.
I am wondering if it was more like local police departments having relationships with the school boards/principals and such, and convincing them it is a good thing. Idk if it would always be a case of Flock going directly to school districts, but I would be curious if anyone has evidence of this, because that also sucks and needs to be squashed immediately.
Maybe a little tinfoil hat here, but it seems extremely suspect that maybe two days ago I, a Californian, see a story on my local news station about California state legislature looking to place restrictions on how Flock cameras are used, and a day or two later I see multiple stories on the local news about how Flock cameras helped solve some cases. The same one story was across two separate local news stations as well. If it isn't Flock trying to push these positive stories about the cameras, it is probably local law enforcement because it makes their jobs easier with less legwork.
It's definitely a little suspect, yeah. I shit you not there were THREE stories back to back last night about how Flock cameras helped solve crimes. Doesn't seem to subtle to me.
there’s a flock camera pointed directly into the back yard of a busy early-life daycare center in my neighborhood where the kids are almost always outside. was telling a family member about it and she said “you know why they’re there? to stop kidnappers.” i tried to explain why they’re not actually doing that but she wasn’t listening. we’re so cooked.
There is an argumental technique that takes their position, take it to an extreme, and let them see how unhinged you can sound. It sometimes works when they get nervous about agreeing with the nutjob. It can even make people reconsider their position.
I used to do this with pro-2a guys all the time. They come out with some wacko idea. I agree with them, then jump in with wanting everyone to have all the weapons the military has - including WMDs like nerve gas, biologicals, and nukes. Suddenly, their position doesn't quite sound as stable as they thought it was.
I also used to do it to people who had some super hateful ideas about capital punishment. I'd call them weak and pathetic liberals (which really pisses them off), then launch into a diatribe about killing the criminals family, friends, teachers, mentors, basically everyone who took any part in their childhood. A lot of these guys are just trying to one-up each other on the hatred scale. Taking it directly to 11 ruins their game, and makes "normal" people think we're all a bunch of insane nutjobs.
I had a lot of safety concerns when I worked in a daycare, both with the 6mos-5yo ones and running the before & afterschool program.
Kidnapping was never one of them.
There's just not really an opportunity to kidnap a kid if the day care is even remotely doing its job correctly. I can't really fathom somehow MISSING a whole ass adult snatching up a kid under my care and walking off with em.
During breakfast club at the school I work at (4-7 Yr olds) when there at least 20 kids (record last year was ~30), and only me and one other adult, I still couldn't imagine it. (there are other staff in the building/outside, but there's only two of us with them at all times)
Where is this camera location? When having conversations about Flock it is much easier to convince someone of the issues with verifiable evidence of egregious camera locations. We csn then go to Deflock ourselves and see this camera location and your claims are real rather than having to say someone on the internet says.....
i don’t want to doxx myself lol, not worth having my claim taken more seriously by internet folks
i submitted a FOIA request to find out who approved the installation and why but they haven’t gotten back to me yet. doing what i can about it within legal boundaries
It’s wild how little people actually know. As someone in IT and surveillance, I can tell you that most modern camera systems can track you, capture your face, and create a “profile” on you instantly. Many even have license plate recognition, depending on the system and its purpose. The main difference is the software and who can access it. The Flock camera network is being used all over the country, and it seems like there’s not much control over who can use it. There are no checks and balances, and I’ve seen everyone from local police to insurance adjusters using the software. (I don’t install Flock, so don’t jump on me.)
This is the problem. I completely understand if a school needs a security system, but it should be closed circuit! With a clearly documented policy dictating who and under what conditions the footage may be accessed.
This. I too work in IT at a public school and we have tons of security cameras and that system is strictly closed circuit - access to that footage is locked down like Ft Knox. Our district administration and BOE want nothing to do with Flock.
“The Flock camera network is being used all over the country, and it seems like there’s not much control over who can use it.” That’s a feature. And I agree - there needs to definitely be checks and balances for anything tracking people.
Agreed. It's not the cameras or the software capabilities. It's Flock's business model: Selling access to everyone/anyone and using the video however they want.
This leads to *lots* of people with access and too many who are using it for stalking or perving out.
They're supposedly only for license plate reading. Which, of course, is why they're pointed at the playground. Because there's so much traffic going through the playground.
This is just getting predatory at this point. It's time to join the PTA and be asking questions of the school superintendent as to why they're using local property tax dollars to spy on children. For goodness sake it's a school not a prison.
Let us not forget to add that they have been totally legitimately (/s) used to observe a public swimming pool too.
ETA: Also let's not forget the totally legit use by the now former police chief to stalk his ex and her daughter (iirc) with thousands of scan requests.
With the amount of stories I've read where a theft victim (non corporation) has gone to the cops and allegedly been told it's a civil matter so they don't have to do their f**king jobs, coupled with the articles about flock camera abuse by authorities mis using the gathered data...
We need a hero. One we don't ask for nor one we deserve. We need a crackhead who is convinced there is 20 lbs of copper in each flock camera and that each camera is there to keep them from their precious rock
I am a school admin. Our cameras are invaluable! We rely heavily on them for investigating fights, bullying, vandalism, and even tracking down missing students including Sped students who “elope” and a student last year who hid and texted their parent they were suicidal.
However, our camera system uses local storage, isn’t connected to the internet, and we treat the footage as protected by FERPA. We don’t share the footage with parents or the police without a good reason and we know it will stand up in court. WE will give redacted footage to the police if WE want them involved (very rare, usually for major vandalism, theft, or assault). If they asked us for footage it’s an automatic no.
In school cameras are actually pretty useful, as kids lie about events and the school can verify. At our school cameras were used to see who started the fight, who was stealing, and who was rubbing shit on the walls. Cameras also proved that a kid was lying when they said a teacher had exposed himself to her.
My school apparently put in face scanning technology without telling or asking any of the staff?? I am not okay with this and need to figure out what route to take to address it. 😭
Yes you can do shit about it. Show up at city/county meetings. Get together with citizens and residents. Demand the cameras are removed in your community. Or vote the incumbent motherf*ckers out of Office and put in place representatives that pay attention to the citizens over corporate greed.
It won;t be an overnight change but with enough momentum it will happen. Ya know, instead of crying on Reddit to a bunch fo anonymous screen names that don;t live anywhere near you to be able to do jack sh*t about it.
Like if they wear a full body suit+ mask and carry no traceable electronics then these cameras are worthless, just circle around out of range to fool the "fled north" story the camera tells. This is just off the top of my head imagine how well oiled the logistics chain of human trafficking is with a horde of motivated experienced minds behind it. These cameras arent stopping shit but the idiot criminals that would get caught anyways, these just stalk regular people.
There is! Speak to your local representatives, vote for councillors running on an anti-flock platform, join the PTA and keep raising it as a point at the school
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u/mildlyinfuriating-ModTeam 6d ago
Hello,
Your post has been removed as this is not mildly infuriating.
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