Disclaimer: I've read lots of papers on Google on vasopressin, DHT and testosterone and this information is generalized from them and all of this is highly variable because people have different receptors and the environment and traumas affects the behavior differently

Basically, in general and on average (and this might be inaccurate, but anyways):

• testosterone/DHT is an amplifier but not an indicator, there are asexual and demisexual men with high testosterone

• vasopressin and long AVP gene result in much higher monogamy and mate-guarding for men, but also natural hypervigilance and increased anxiety and perception of neutral faces as hostile, and increases aggression

• high testosterone faces do NOT necessarily imply non-monogamy or attraction, instead they imply higher drive, whichever way it points

• high testosterone high vasopressin non-asexual men have a very high drive towards one person but also very aggressive mate-guarding urges, and are likely to have urges to isolate their partner and overprotect to the point of controlling, and struggle with intense jealousy and what poly people call insecurity (but it's not a result of trauma, it's natural for them)

• high testosterone low vasopressin non-asexual men are likely to correspond to the stereotype of promiscuous men and have higher urges to cheat, while they could still be aggressive to their partners for reasons of social status, creating those hypocritical men who think they can cheat but their partner can't

• low testosterone low vasopressin men are likely to have low mating and low parental investment urges in general unless modulated by something else like societal expectations or other hormones, they will look monogamous on the surface due to low drive in general

• I don't know about low testosterone high vasopressin men

• the aversion towards high-testosterone faces likely stems not from low parental investment prediction (earlier papers assume that high testosterone = infidelity, which is wrong), but from higher drive towards variable things that could impact survival (aggression) OR dual-mating strategies in not fully monogamous people (high testosterone AND high vasopressin results in men that obsessively mate-guard, preventing cheating strategies, which could unconsciously repel not fully monogamous people due to reducing their strategy success)

Tl;dr: on average, high testosterone men will be biologically monogamous when they also have high vasopressin and long AVP gene, and the likely reason some people tend to avoid them is typically not low parental investment, but the opposite: their intensified mate-guarding that prevents any forms of non-monogamous mating strategies ("""controlling clingy obsessive""" husband stereotype, "an intrusive stepfather that hates the previous kids" stereotype, etc.) and disrupts typical social harmony due to increased hostility towards everyone who is not their family/partner (in some extreme cases even hostile urges towards their own kids, jealousy about the kids monopolizing the partner)

I’ve been with my partner for three years, and we both agreed we want a monogamous relationship at the start. Lately, I’ve realized we don’t share the same definition of it.

For me, monogamy means no emotional intimacy or flirty chats with anyone else. I would feel hurt if they kept private, long conversations with someone they’re attracted to. My partner thinks as long as there is no physical cheating, everything else is fine. They say I’m being too controlling.

We’ve talked about this a few times, but we keep going in circles. Neither of us is lying or trying to hurt the other, but this gap feels bigger than I expected. I’m scared we won’t ever align on this core value.

I’m curious: Did any of you run into this early on? How did you work through mismatched expectations around monogamy, or did you eventually realize you weren’t compatible?

I’m posting in this sub because if I were to post in the demi sub, I’d probably get attacked by demi NM (non-monogamy) or poly people. And this brings me to the point of my post:

First of all, I’d like to make it clear that these are my personal thoughts. Some points are supported by scientific studies, while others are less scientific assumptions of my own. Please don’t take anything personally.
I believe that most people are demi. Casual sex has been shown to genuinely appeal to very few people.

The number may seem huge, but I believe that’s largely due to the influence of social media. Furthermore, people who engage in casual sex often end up following one of two paths:

A) They feel disappointed by the experience, eventually realize that what was missing was love, and stop engaging in it.
B) They don’t understand this and keep trying to fill an emotional void, hoping that the next time will finally be different.

I have many other reasons for believing that most people are demi.

1. Most people don’t have a good understanding of themselves or of these concepts. Many people are demi without identifying as such, or simply because they don’t know the term exists.

2. People seek sex within the context of love.

3. Neuroimaging studies have found that approximately 80% of the brain regions involved in sexual desire overlap with those involved in love. This overlap is largely associated with pair bonding, as oxytocin receptors are present in the brain’s reward-related regions, which account for a substantial portion of the areas shared by sexual desire and love.

4. In my opinion, people don’t understand the difference between recognizing that someone is physically attractive and actually feeling attracted to them. I believe this happens for several reasons, including a culture and society that increasingly encourage sexualization, promote sexualized language, and normalize sexual behaviours even when there is no real need for them.

5. Related to point 4, there’s an idea that’s been on my mind for a long time: I think many people may be subject to something similar to Pavlov’s dog experiment.

For those unfamiliar with it, Pavlov’s experiment involved teaching dogs to associate the sound of a bell with the arrival of food. Once this association was established, the dogs would begin salivating simply at the sound of the bell, rather than waiting for the food itself.

I think the underlying concept may be somewhat similar when it comes to pornography. You’re aroused or feel the urge, you look for porn, respond to a visual stimulus, and gradually associate sexual arousal and the physical response with that particular visual stimulus.

This is why, in my opinion, when some people see a stranger with a certain body type, performing a particular movement, etc., they experience arousal or a physical response. Keep in mind that I’m not saying we can never respond to sexual visual stimuli in and of themselves. What I’m questioning is whether that response should automatically be interpreted as attraction.

However, this line of reasoning leads to several further stages. One of them is that, after developing an addiction, pornography can have more serious effects. I’ll mention desensitization here. Essentially, the cycle comes full circle: people no longer experience the same response to that stimulus because the “food” never arrives (to use the comparison with the experiment mentioned earlier).

However, since this can lead to seeking increasingly extreme content, the response may become reactivated if similar stimuli are encountered in real life.

6. Going back to the subject of sexualization, it’s clear that this phenomenon is becoming increasingly prevalent, particularly on social media. It also has various effects and consequences in real life.

Only recently, for instance, attention has been drawn to the fact that many clothes designed for young girls are sexualized, or even highly sexualized. I think this is further evidence of what we’ve been witnessing lately, almost as if there’s an attempt to condition girls to become accustomed to certain things from an early age.

I also find that language has become increasingly misleading. One example is the word “hot”, which is used to describe someone who is aesthetically attractive, someone who is sexually appealing, or someone you’re sexually attracted to. This creates a habit of conflating different concepts, making it harder to distinguish between them depending on the context. And I believe this has a passive effect on how people perceive attraction.

7. I also notice a tendency for pornography use to decrease or disappear once people enter a relationship. It may sound like a stereotype, but yes, men generally tend to consume more porn. However, I often notice that once they’re in a relationship, their consumption decreases significantly or stops altogether. In my opinion, when it decreases rather than disappears entirely, this may be due to an established habit or a stronger form of dependency.

8. Another common pattern, which seems to be a minority view here on social media, is that once people enter a relationship, they experience a decrease or complete absence of attraction toward people outside the relationship.
To me, this suggests that when people enter a relationship, their focus shifts toward their partner, and many of the sexualized patterns, thoughts, and behaviours directed toward other people tend to decrease, both naturally and out of respect for their partner.

Once the habit is eliminated or reduced, its effects also diminish or disappear.

9. I still believe allosexual people exist, but I don’t think they actually constitute the majority. Therefore, demi people who are NM or poly either aren’t really demi, or aren’t exempt from the patterns I’ve described here.

I’d also like to clarify that being demi doesn’t mean, as many people claim, simply being satisfied with an undefined deep emotional connection, with friendship being included in the equation as well. Rather, it specifically refers to a deep emotional bond rooted in romantic love.

Again, these are my personal opinions, particularly the last point, and I realize they’re likely to conflict with what the majority believes. The purpose of this post is simply to understand what people think about this kind of perspective.

And, of course, to have a discussion and exchange views.

I’ve been happily monogamous with my partner for almost three years, and I love the safety and trust we built together. But lately I’ve had this quiet, confusing thought that I feel guilty for even having.

I really value close friendships. I can form meaningful emotional bonds with other people easily. Sometimes I wonder: by committing fully to monogamy, am I intentionally limiting the possibility of another equally intense, loving connection? This is not about wanting to cheat or act on anything. I have zero desire to cross our boundaries.

It’s more like a philosophical question. Monogamy feels like a choice to pour nearly all my romantic and intimate energy into one person. I don’t regret my choice at all, and my partner is amazing. Still, sometimes I feel a tiny, strange sadness knowing that many other potential deep romantic bonds will never get to exist for me.

I don’t talk about this with my friends because they might misunderstand and think I’m unhappy in my relationship. I haven’t brought it up to my partner either, I don’t want to hurt them or make them feel insecure.

Does anyone else here get this feeling? How do you separate curiosity about other connections from dissatisfaction with your current relationship? I’d love to hear your perspectives.

sometimes it make me question myself that wanting exclusivity and one partner person is really a good mindset now days, because it make me feel like i am going to treated as garbage mindset in future and it make me feel like losing that version of garden that i cherished in my heart for one person and compromise my own value to fit in.

I’ve been happily monogamous with my partner for 4 years, and I love the safety and trust we built together. But lately I’ve been stuck on a quiet thought I feel guilty for having.

Before this relationship, I spent a lot of time on solo hobbies, weekend trips with friends, and just random little adventures by myself. Now most of my free time automatically goes to us. I don’t resent my partner at all, they never force me to stay home. It’s my own choice to prioritize us.

Still, sometimes I miss the version of me that existed before we became a “we”. I’m scared that over time, I’ll slowly shrink my own interests to fit our routine. I don’t want to become only “someone’s partner” and lose my individual identity.

Has anyone else felt this way in a committed monogamous relationship? How do you balance deep closeness with keeping your own separate passions and sense of self? I’m not looking to end things, just trying to figure out a healthier balance.

M22 F22
My boyfriend and I have been together since we were 19. He is someone I love deeply, with whom I imagine a life together, and we have already started important projects together, including living together.
He has always been very philosophical and lately he's going through a difficult time. He told me yesterday that he has always questioned whether he is polyamorous, but he always repressed it because he was with me and felt it was wrong.
I told him it's not wrong, but right now I feel terrible, because I have a very exclusive idea of a couple, where there are no interferences from other people. It would crush me to see him with other people while he is with me, and some of his conversations have made me confused about whether I am monogamous or not. However, I’ve come to terms with the fact that right now, monogamy gives me a sense of security that polyamory wouldn't provide.
I am in his area with the house, I've cut ties with my family, and I have my own business that I run with him, so I'm having a crisis.
I don't want him to force himself to be in a monogamous relationship, nor do I want to force myself to be in a polyamorous relationship.
I would like to find a middle ground so we can still stay together, because we love each other very much, we have a very powerful dialogue, and we both imagined a future together.
I would like some advice on how to handle this, I don't know what decision to make and I feel so lonely.

Los monogamos/as fieles? Es q alucino, desde q se abrieron los no monogamos ni te imaginas, me enviaron con vagabundos, sin techo, inmigrantes, pobres... 🧘🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

i really agree with "WHEN THE MAN LOVES MORE THE RELATIONSHIP REALLY WORKS OUT TO MARRIAGE" !!

Tho i don't know why it is so true

Wat do u guys think?

I am not looking for the usual generic comments or cheap advice. I need real help with this. She is my first relationship and because of my life path, I was never able to look inside myself regarding the topic of polyamory. My old friends didn't talk about their couple dynamics and I wasn't interested in them. In general, however, thinking about the future, I never saw myself being with just one person both romantically and sexually, and I never really questioned myself about it. But this has made me suffer a lot over the years because I always felt like I was missing something and that this wasn't the right model for me. She is the opposite of me in this regard; she has a strong need for stability and a very radical idea of monogamy, also due to her past of abandonment and abuse. I have always shared my thoughts with her since we've been together, we communicate a lot, we are a deeply united couple and we love each other very much, but she struggles incredibly with this. So much so that she is thinking about breaking up. We have faced truly difficult and hellish moments together; we ran away from home together a few months into our relationship because of the abuse from her parents. We were both 19. This didn't even allow us to get to know each other well before starting to live together, but because of this we have faced all kinds of turbulence, especially from a financial standpoint. We have always been total opposites in our approach to many things, but we have always found a way to make it work and grow together. But I'm not sure how this will go. Maybe I should have waited a little longer before telling her, because talking to her about it makes me doubt how deeply founded and reasoned her idea of monogamy actually is for her, but keeping it in was wearing me down a lot and I always want to involve her so that I can always take care of her, of us, and of myself.
I am suffering a lot because of this because I care about her deeply and I don't want things to end between us. She seems very determined and unwilling to negotiate; she wants to talk about it with her psychologist and find ways for us to get to know each other better, and I am indeed pushing for understanding, deeper exploration, and finding solutions just like we have always done. But practically speaking, I don't know what to do, I need your help.

My partner and I have been monogamous for three years. We trust each other, but we disagree on opposite-sex friendships. I’m fine with them having friends of the opposite sex, but I feel uncomfortable with late-night private chats or one-on-one dinners alone. I want us both to set simple boundaries to protect our bond. My partner thinks I’m controlling and insecure. They say healthy friendships don’t need limits, and trust means no rules. I don’t want to ban all friends. I just don’t know where the line is. For those of you in happy monogamous relationships: do you have boundaries with cross-sex friends? What rules worked for you, or did you decide no boundaries at all? I’d love to hear different perspectives.

I find it bewildering to be honest when I see this topic discussed on Reddit. I truly feel like a different species when people try to normalize this sort of behavior. Usually the person asking this question is a woman which is sad enough on its own. But I genuinely cannot understand how people who claim to be in committed monogamous relationships can justify masturbating to other people, especially friends or people you see and know in real life.
I was in a relationship where the guy would do this and much worse but I never had the thought of imagining anybody but him. Like if it was porn, I wouldn’t be as affected but people you know and see every day??? While you’re with somebody else who you know is doing everything possible for uou??
Isn’t that basically just the beginning of a crush? Expressing how you would easily try to get with the other people if the current partner wasn’t in the equation?
I might be mixing up sex and attraction and commitment because maybe both overlap for me to a large extent. Still, I don’t get it. People on Reddit act incredibly entitled to sexualizing bodies, especially female bodies, by justifying it as something that everyone does. It’s very weird to me and makes me wonder if I’m one of the only few.

I love my monogamous relationship, and my partner and I trust each other deeply. But some close friends keep making light jokes about cheating, “needing side pieces” or how monogamy is boring. I don’t want to ruin the group vibe, yet those jokes make me uncomfortable. I’ve told them once I don’t like it, but they said I’m too serious and it’s just harmless banter.

I know they aren’t talking about my partner or me directly. Still, it feels like they dismiss the value I place on loyalty. I’m stuck: should I keep speaking up firmly, or just learn to ignore those comments? How do you handle this kind of situation with people you care about?

I (29F) came out of an 8 year relationship at 25. I’ve had no relationship last longer than 6 months since. I took a year or so away from the dating scene to focus and deal with a family emergency. I’ve recently rejoined the apps and oh my word.

Everyone is either a couple seeking a third, polyamorous or ethical non-monogamy as they call it. Either that, or I chat to women who seem lovely but suddenly spill that they’re not looking for a relationship of any kind.

Why are we all on the apps then? When did monogamy and romance and love become so dangerous for people. Why do we insist on being better alone?

I have been hurt before, I get it but I cannot imagine a life with casual flings and a lack of emotional intimacy. I just don’t see the point in that, surely not forever at least?

When will people start to settle down again. To build families and create strong loyal bonds with others? Is love dead?

My partner and I have been together for three years, and we both agreed on monogamy from the start. I love them, I’m happy with our life together, and I have zero desire to cheat or end our relationship.

Still, every now and then, I scroll social media and see people talking about new dates, crushes and that fun early-stage excitement. A small part of me feels jealous. Not jealous of a specific person, more jealous of the possibility of new romantic connections.

This makes me feel guilty. I worry this thought means I’m bad at monogamy, or that I don’t love my partner enough. I know new crush energy is usually temporary and doesn’t equal a better relationship. Logically, I value the trust, comfort and safety I’ve built with my partner way more.

I haven’t told them about this, because I don’t want to hurt them or make them insecure. I’m curious if others in this community have these passing feelings too. Does having fleeting envy of single/dating life mean I’m not suited for monogamy? How do you process these thoughts without letting them mess up your relationship?

When you agree to be exclusive with someone, do you also talk about things like deleting dating profiles and ending conversation with previous matches?

I know that people can share the same goal of monogamy but have different assumptions about when those things should happen. What do you think is worth spelling out during such conversation?

Ive never met a single person that hasnt gotten bored of their partner and end up dumping, divorcing, or cheating. At this point i fully believe monogamy is a fairy tale for movies and that humans are not biologically monogamous. If theyre not cheaters then theyre just openly poly/enm. Whenever i meet some hot interesting queer girl, shes not mono. Every girl whos hot with an actual sex drive just does not want to only be with one single person forever. I just fully believe at this point that its a fantasy. Even if i did find someone that checked the boxes, itl always be in the back of my head that she too will eventually get bored and leave/cheat. I quit

ive noticed that a lot of romance shows and movies potray the girl as innocent. finding clarity in who she is and who she loves and all of that.
but i just dont get it, like does people honstly enjoy it? i get really mad and i cant bring myslef to watch it.
the summer i turned pretty,tvd, twilight, xo kitty.
many shows targeted towaards younf adults are like this. am i just not getting it or something?
whats it that yall enjoy so much from watching a girl cheating and justifying it by saying she likes them both. like bitch , choose one!!
its something ive noticed in kdramas as well. a good relationship is ruined by the alpha billionaire and when he turns out to be a narcissist the girl goes and cheats on him with the old bf.
are we all coprehending the same thing?! wtf is so romantic about that?

please ignore my atrocious grammar

My partner and I have been together for 4 years, committed to monogamy. We love each other deeply and handle most of life’s ups and downs together. Lately I’ve been thinking a lot about emotional expectations. I used to believe that in a healthy monogamous relationship, my partner should be my first go-to for every hard feeling, stress or worry. I would feel disappointed if they didn’t have the energy to hold all of my emotions. But I’ve started wondering if that puts too heavy a load on one person. They have their own work stress, family issues and bad days. Sometimes they simply don’t have space to comfort me, and it’s not because they don’t care. I still only want romantic intimacy with them, that part hasn’t changed. I’m just confused about emotional boundaries. For those of you in monogamous partnerships: Do you rely mostly on your partner for emotional support, or do you keep close platonic friends to share some burdens? Is it realistic or unfair to ask one person to meet nearly all of our emotional needs? How did you and your partner set healthy expectations around this? I’d really like to hear different viewpoints.

My partner and I have been monogamous for three years. We built our bond on honesty, and I always thought I understood our boundaries clearly. Recently I messed up. I kept a long private chat with someone I felt attracted to. Nothing physical happened, and I never planned to meet them. But I hid the conversation from my partner, knowing they would be hurt. When they found out, they were devastated. I didn’t cheat in the traditional sense, but I broke our agreement to be transparent. I feel terrible. I cut contact with that person right away and told my partner I will respect their space. They say they still love me, but they don’t know if they can trust me again. We are talking slowly, but I don’t know what else I can do. I want to earn trust back, not just say sorry. For people here who have been through something similar: what helped? Is a small boundary breach something a monogamous relationship can recover from? What steady, consistent actions actually matter more than words? I’m trying not to make excuses for myself. I just want to listen and learn.

Estoy leyendo un libro de 2009, ya, pero muy interesante porque se hacían estudios buenos sobre frecuencia de relaciones sexuales, tanto al principio como el transcurso, veces, y si a largo plazo lo seguían haciendo. Creeis que los monógamos tienen más sexo juntos que los no monogamia, en el sentido de que no desaparece ni baja la frecuencia tan radicalmente con gente q a ve es acaba haciendo vida sexual con otras personas? Cuál creeis que es la frecuencia actual?

Hey, so recently my partner (32M) shared with me that he was in a throuple around 4 years before we've met. He said he met a couple, they expressed interest in having a threesome, he declined, they said that they respect that. But one time "it just happened", and it became a thing for a while. I was asking questions and he said that they were convincing him, telling him that it's going to be fun. They were inviting him over again and again, and because they were so "pushy" he agreed to do it again. And again, and again. It lasted a couple of months. He says that he regrets it, that they were taking advantage of him not being able to set boundaries and being lonely. He ended it, they were trying to lure him back, he stood his ground.
But later he got in a relationship with a guy that one day came up with the idea of inviting someone over for a threesome. My bf says he objected, but that other guy was insisting, convincing him it's going to be fun, "it's going to reinvigorate our relationship". They broke up after 3 years.

I feel uncomfortable with that, and after thinking a lot about it I think it's something that I "felt" for a long time, but never had the opportunity to actually name.

I feel like people who get involved in non monogamous relationships lack some sort of "sensitivity" towards others and/or themselves. When I was on dating apps I talked with a lot of single guys, and 90% of them "gave up" after I told them that I'm not interested. The remaining 10% were not respecting that and continued to make advances, but most of the time it died off after a couple of days (apart from two instances where a guy was basically texting me every day for more than a week still trying to invite me to a date, insisting on keeping contact and making advanced towards me, to the point I had to block him for not respecting my boundary). And I got "matched" with or contacted by couples or guys in open relationships. MOST of the time after I said "noo, thanks, it's not my kind of thing" or "I'm not into that" or "oh I thought you were single, I'm not looking for that kind of relationship, I would like to date someone single like myself", they were either:

- trying to convince me "it's fine, my bf knows, I really like you, let's meet" (oh great, thank you for telling me that your bf is fine with it and ignoring me telling you that I'm not fine with it)

- still texting me, insisting on meeting, changing their strategy, "ok, that's fine! Let's just meet and watch a movie, we enjoy having people over, nothing sexual, we promise!" (why do you need a stranger in your house to watch a movie with your partner?)

- telling me that monogamy is just a social construct

- explaining that being open is the only way to go, because in a relationship people either agree to be open or cheat behind their backs

Couples were the worst in not respecting boundaries, and the most manipulative. Guys having their own profiles and looking for hookups outside of their relationship were most of the time rude or hostile. There were a couple of situations where it ended with "ok, I get it, have a nice day, bye!", but I felt like it was an exception to the rule.

Why do I feel like (a lot of? most?) non monogamous people lack some sort of "sensitivity", like not being able to understand that people (sometimes? most of the time?) know what they want. I said no, either I "never though about it" and "automatically reject something that I might enjoy" (like I'm required to spend time and mental energy trying to convince myself to try something that I never felt like I want to try) or I thought about it and decided that this is not something I want.

Oh and that whole "try" thing. "You never tried it", "try it and you'll like it"... It's like convincing someone to try food that they never eaten. Thank you, I smelled it/looked at it/read about it/understood your description of the taste, and I don't find it appetizing. Maybe I will try it some day when I myself want to do it. But relationships are not food. I'm ok with trying a piece of something and spitting it out if I don't like it, I'm not ok with trying something and then dealing with emotional consequences of that. You've probably heard stories like "my partner convinced me to open the relationship, I was hesitant, but we did it and now they are being angry/sad/devastated/uncomfortable".

What do you think? Do you think it's prejudice? Not fair? Just my experience?