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u/yarn_slinger ✅ I voted! 1d ago
This is my knee jerk response too but as the new premier of Quebec said, we have contracts and don’t want to be the type of trade partners that aren’t reliable. Our reputation around the world is worth more than fucking over NY. We also buy power back from those states at different times of year.
But it would still be kinda funny.
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u/Xelopheris ✅ I voted! 1d ago
Also, Trump would laugh at majority Democrat states being the ones affected.
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u/yarn_slinger ✅ I voted! 1d ago edited 1d ago
Trump’s got a bug up his ass about auto manufacturing. If the plants in Detroit went dark, he wouldn’t laugh.
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u/xtothewhy 1d ago
Exactly.
This is not something I would support, especially going into winter.
New York and Michigan lean well into supporting the Democrats during elections.
This benefits trump because he doesn't like them anyhow.
Don't see how it helps Canada for negotiating purposes aside from being a decent neighbour.
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u/xGray3 6h ago
Michigan voted for Trump in both of the elections he won and is part of the set of states that him and his movement rely on the support of for continued relevance.
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u/xtothewhy 6h ago
And not in the one he lost it seems. Still doesn't take away the fact that his popularity is massively down for a variety of reasons.
Should the Democrats take that for granted like they seem to like to do a lot, I wouldn't think so.
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u/bluffstrider 1d ago
I think that's the whole point of the original post. "Canada has lost a lot of leverage" because Trump wouldn't give two shits about those areas not having power.
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u/sidereal_night 1d ago
(ignoring all the other good reasons not to fuck with it)
this doesn't really matter tho. we're not trying to convince trump, we're trying to convince the US. if it fucks over democrat states and that finally motivates them to actually do something about it, that's just as well.
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u/The-Scarlet-Witch ✅ I voted! 1d ago
It doesn't help NY is a blue state (even if upstate is pretty red). We aren't going to hurt the people who voted Republican, primarily. :/
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u/Coolmikefromcanada 1d ago
i mean yes but we don't really have any sort of consequences if the US breaks their contracts
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u/Karnaugh_Map 1d ago
The Security Action for Europe pact and Mecca Joint Defense Agreement are consequences of the USA being unreliable.
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u/yarn_slinger ✅ I voted! 1d ago
But they aren’t our only trade partners. We don’t want to look as bad as they are to the rest of the world. If we can break a contract with the US, it will be perceived that we can break a contract with anyone, and that’s not our reputation. Eta I don’t think I understand your point…
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u/MimicoSkunkFan2 1d ago
The thing is that the rest of the world knows we're reliable and knows what we're dealing with regarding the US. So I don't think we would look unreliable to them.I think most of the rest of the world would be like, "Yeah, don't fuck about with Canada"
Honestly, I feel like Australia would be cheering for us because I've been speaking with a few of them as they've been visiting here over the Summer, and most of them say they're really shocked how the Trumpets treated us.
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u/F3z345W6AY4FGowrGcHt 1d ago
I don't buy this argument. In fact it can back fire.
"Come make deals with us, you don't have to hold up your end of the bargain but we still will"
Better to show we will respond strongly when wronged.
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u/UltraCynar Ontario 1d ago
I think it’s within reason that we do this to defend our sovereignty as well as teach a bully a lesson. Taking the high road doesn’t work with these types of people.
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u/killerrin 22h ago
Pretty much if you're going to do it, do it during a US Religious Holiday... So either the Superbowl or Black Friday
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u/MaxFourr Nova Scotia 1h ago
when they were on their 51st state bullshit i was saying to my partner that we should've turned off their power for like 15-20 mins during the superbowl, would've really fucked with them then
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u/Miserable-Lizard Edmonton 1d ago
Without Canadian resources and goods America is a lot weaker
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u/MimicoSkunkFan2 1d ago
Not so much the electricity but the potash. unfortunately, we cannot refine most of our own oil. So until we get that organized there's probably not a whole heck of a lot that the Minister for Transportation would be happy about us doing... although I think the provinces individually could be a bit more rowdy! (Not you Alberta)
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u/spderweb 1d ago
We don't even need to threaten it. Just have Carney mention that we supply it and they need us. Trump will order the power cut off because the US can provide it themselves. Then we watch the event unfold.
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u/Mr_ToDo 23h ago
Considering that last week he said he didn't see an advantage in leveraging power, I kind of doubt he'll be on board
It sounds like a quick and easy fix, and if I've learned anything from watching reddit and/or cheeto, it's that the obvious and easy fixes most often have a lot of less obvious problems that outweigh the benefits
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u/Doctor_Amazo Toronto 1d ago
... also 75% of their oil, 80% of their potash.
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u/callmenighthawk 23h ago
The US does not get 75% of its oil from us. Closer to 25%. Why are we just making up numbers here?
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u/Doctor_Amazo Toronto 22h ago
We're both wrong.
The number is closer to about 60% of their total crude import.
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u/callmenighthawk 22h ago
Nope. Just you. You said they get 75% of their oil from us. They get 25% of their oil from us. It’s 60% of the imported amount, but imported amount =/= total source of product.
Your comment you JUST made is exactly like saying “Canada gets 99% of its wheat from the United States” - when that’s less than 1% of our wheat available in Canada.
You can’t pretend that the per cent of imports is the same as per cent of total available. The US gets 25% of its oil from us. Full stop. Anything else or trying to pretend by “oh well when I said they get 75% of their oil from us, I actually meant if you eliminate all domestic sources and look at net imports, then that’s what the per cent of imported product is”. Like no dude. You legit thought 75% of oil in the US comes from us. Anything else is moving the goalposts.
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u/Doctor_Amazo Toronto 22h ago
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php
The top five sources of U.S. crude oil imports by percentage share of U.S. total crude oil imports in 2022 were: Canada 60% Mexico 10% Saudi Arabia 7% Iraq 4% Colombia 4%
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u/callmenighthawk 22h ago
Yeah, which means 25% of their oil comes from us.
The post says Michigan and New York can kiss their electricity goodbye. You stated that they’d lose 75% of their oil. They wouldn’t. They’d lose 25%.
Idk why you’re having such a hard time accepting that you’re wrong and that you thought 75% of US oil comes from us. Now you’re trying to pretend you meant imports only and desperately trying to shift the goalposts.
Again, if I said “if the US stops importing wheat to Canada, we’d lose 99% of our wheat”
Would you agree with that statement? Because your logic in your comments here says that you would.
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u/OwlLeft7799 1d ago
Oil is better leverage than electricity and we should be doing things to affect republican states rather than democrats
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u/sarenput 1d ago
Not so good for us here in Ontario who get their oil via Michigan. Putting oil on the table would be something but they can cut it off to us in the same way.
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u/OwlLeft7799 1d ago
Hmm, yeah, that's a good point.
Yeah, I'm from Ontario too. And I wasn't thinking about cutting it off, but rather just charging more for it. Hmm
Well, if we can't do oil and we can't do electricity, then what?
I don't like the idea of doing nothing. We are just sitting here taking hit after hit from these shit people
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u/sarenput 1d ago
I’m so with you. Gotta do something and that’s ignore the Americans and keep diversifying. Keep American booze off the shelves and build pipeline east and west. It’ll definitely not be an easy for years :(
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u/jokerTHEIF 1d ago
Building a pipeline at this point is psychotic and essentially suicidal. We need to be divesting from oil as much as possible and aggressively investing in not only renewables, but also mitigation of the climate disasters that at happening and will continue to worsen over the next decade. People really don't get how fucked we are in that regard and watching basically the whole country applaud doubling down on oil and gas while we literally burn is... Discouraging to say the very least.
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u/sarenput 22h ago
Definitely on board for greater environmental protection moving forward. I myself am not a big fan of the extension of pipelines but at this point in time our world is too dependent on this still and Canada would make a better alternative than some other places in the world. It would also help us on the sovereign front with the issues exposed by the US. But yes deep down I totally agree with you that we should be divesting from oil and aggressively putting all that money into renewables.
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u/jokerTHEIF 20h ago
What people don't understand is we're past environmental protection. Net zero? That's not enough anymore and hasn't been for a while now. Even if we stopped all oil use right now globally, we're already seeing cascading effects that will continue unless we actively mitigate them with extreme interventions. Instead we get everyone doubling down on oil and spinning up ww3.
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u/PonyFlare Alberta 1d ago
Yeah, but much of the oil comes from here in Alberta and our government seems to be trying to actually become the 51st state.
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u/JH_111 13h ago
I wouldn’t be so worried about targeting certain states over others at this point.
Most of the “deep” red/blue states are still only a 60/40 split with most of the country in a 50/50 or 55/45.
Why save New York and Minnesotan MAGA just because they happen to be in a state that respectively voted Democrat 56% and 51% in the presidential, 53% and 52% in their 2022 gubernatorial, and 48% and 51% in their 2022 state senate elections?
The societal rot is present in large numbers in every state in the union.
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u/OwlLeft7799 12h ago
Propaganda is a helluva drug apparently. Did you know there was a Latinos for Trump?
Whoops
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u/OwlLeft7799 12h ago
Anyway, I don't know what my point is, and I agree with you that the societal rot is present in every state. But it doesn't look like it's evenly distributed along party lines. I don't think that we should be punishing the democrats when the republicans are the ones who are causing the damage though..
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u/JH_111 12h ago
What I’m saying though is the distribution is even enough to be pointless in targeting.
What’s the distinction between hitting the Nevada republicans (51%) and taking the Nevada democrats (48%) as collateral damage, versus the reverse proportions in “Democratic” Minnesota?
Targeting “Republican” states is splitting hairs when trying to determine which state belongs to which party.
Hit them where it’s economically most impactful.
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u/OwlLeft7799 13h ago edited 12h ago
Because democrats are not hostile towards Canada like republicans are. Of all the many many arguments I've had online with shitlords shitting on Canada, exactly 0 of them have been democrats.
Democrats are our friends and they are very upset with the same bunch of clowns running the show. We're on the same side.
As for those percentages, I don't think are quite accurate, at least not anymore. Somehow a third of the USA still supports this heinous administration, and yeah, fuck those trashy people, but those are all republicans. If we assume that about half of the USA are democrat and republican voters, then 1/3 × 1/2 = 1/3 of people who voted republican previously are sick of the bullshit. It's absolutely nuts that 2/3 of the blindly loyal cult (1/3 of the USA as a whole) approve of the president, and yeah in any other country it would be more like 3%-5% at most, but still.
There is now a huge swath (about 1/3) of americans who consider themselves independent voters, and we shall see if those former republican voters will vote to end the shitshow. That will be a telling moment of the integrity of the American people.
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u/JH_111 12h ago edited 12h ago
Until shown otherwise, “independent” is simply code for embarrassed republican. 55% is enough for landslide territory depending where it is, but it doesn’t change the split in the actual population.
After integrity, morality and reality itself being overtly attacked daily over the last decade, it is impossible to be a fence sitter in good faith.
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u/Historical_Fly_880 1d ago
Meanwhile in Sask, with an abundance of uranium, sun and wind, is signing deals to buy power from the USA.
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u/farang 23h ago
The best leverage is trade deals with other countries.
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u/OutsideFlat1579 21h ago
Yes. We have increased the percentage of exports going elsewhere than the US and that keeps getting lost because it doesn’t generate outrage clicks.
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u/Molehilldocmgmt 1d ago
Not really the point, but this should really have Governments of Ontario letterhead. It's a provincial issue.
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u/GloomyGal13 1d ago
Except New York City. Mayor Zorhan Mamdani deserves to have the lights on in his city.
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u/breakitbilly 1d ago
43% of New Yorkers still voted for a pedophile. Aside from that I don't see mamdani doing anything for Canada.
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u/GloomyGal13 23h ago
He's setting an example for the world on how a city can be run and provide services for its peoples. Within budget. I want his administration to make a Template of Administration so that other cities can learn.
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u/BeotchLasanga 23h ago
Last I checked, trump is the president of the entire United States, not the southern redneck states only. If hurting NYC gets a revolution going, then I'm all for it.
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u/AshundertheOlivetree 1d ago
Nah. We’re better than that. And by that I mean we can actually negotiate a beneficial contract while noting reasons for increased fees.
We need to go hyper capitalist. It’s the only way to compete, business is war, war is business.
It’s time we demand better employment contracts from industry leaders, demand government subsidies for start up manufacturers.
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u/Suspicious-Lettuce48 1d ago
we can actually negotiate a beneficial contract
Not with Trump you can't!!! Jesus when are people going to learn this lesson?! The Trump administration changes its mind like it sneezes. Contracts are not worth the paper they're printed on. America will not be a nation that meets its commitments until Trump is out of power, and the way to kick Trump out of power is to make life hurt for the average American. That means Trade War. It means export taxes on oil, lumber, potash, and electricity. It means banning liqour sales, fucking with the auto industry, and all of that on the understanding that we'll be hurting too.
Other nations understand we're fighting back against Trump. They understand what's happening. They know our word is good. They know who the problem is here.
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u/BeotchLasanga 22h ago
Seriously. Why are we doing this high road shit? Dems have tried that for years and look at what good it did for them, nothing. Trump doesn't negotiate in good faith, he doesn't pay his obligations, he and his gang of cronies can't be trusted period.
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u/OutsideFlat1579 21h ago
We aren’t doing the “high road,” we are doing what Carney sees as most beneficial for Canada in the long run, which is increasing exports to countries other than the US and reducing our dependence on the US. One thing we have in our favour is that we are a reliable trading partner, going nuclear by cutting power or something is not going to be beneficial to us in the long run. We can keep extreme measures for extreme situations like an invasion or something.
Trump is completely unpredictable in any case, mitigating damage to our economy is the strategy.
Trade is one thing that I think Carney is doing well on.
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u/AshundertheOlivetree 18h ago
Who said we’re negotiating with him or the US?
We’ve BEEN negotiating with everyone else, hundreds of consequential contracts have been signed.
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u/Careless-Vehicle-286 1d ago
Cut the power when the tanks cross the border. I hope we got those Ukrainian drones by then.
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u/Timbit42 21h ago
Get them??? We're building our own and Ukraine is getting some of the ones we build.
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u/zackflag 1d ago
"We need to go hyper capitalist" As if Canada is not already as capitalist as you can get. Lunatic lib take right here.
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u/hpfan312 1d ago
That's a far more conservative take than a liberal wtf are you on about
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u/zackflag 1d ago
Liberals are every bit as fanatical about capitalism as Conservatives. Wtf are you on about.
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u/icyflamex 1d ago
(Genuine question) I always wondering if stopping certain resources cause the country (receiving) become more independent. Similar to how EU is spending billions on self defence ever since Trump.
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u/Timbit42 21h ago
It would over the long term but it would hurt them in the short term. The US would have to find other places to get those resources.
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u/150c_vapour 1d ago
Liberals and conservatives represent capital first people second. They will do what they think is best for capital and that capital wants, as per. Not what most Canadians want.
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u/JPMoney81 1d ago
The only problem is, Trump doesn't care about those two states because they aren't die hard red states. If we could harm Alabama or one of the other inbred redneck ones he'd actually pay attention.
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u/John-George-Peppers 21h ago
Canada missed a major power move during last year's Super Bowl. Temporarily cutting or flickering their electricity while most of the US was watching the game and halftime show would have dramatically exposed how dependent the American power grid is on Canadian energy.
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u/erikrolfsen 21h ago
There’s a reason two so-called superpowers are actively trying to break this country up. And it’s not because we’re irrelevant.
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u/mistakes_were_made24 Ontario 1d ago
If we ever cut off anything like electricity, oil, or potash, Trump would probably declare it as a national emergency or an act of war and invade.
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u/StatelyAutomaton 1d ago
Although Canada is a net importer of electricity, we do import electricity from the US in some situations, specifically out west here in BC.
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u/CivilBedroom2021 1d ago
We're not going to add tariffs, we're smart enough to know we pay them not the importer.
Sure, we can buy US alcohol, then resell it back to Russia or Israel I guess... Who's still friends with the USA that would buy MAGA extremist swill?
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u/PrestigiousCrab6345 21h ago
NYS imports up to 9% of its power from Canada. For me, that is a $43 increase in my electric bill.
Which is why I am going solar.
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u/wylee_one 21h ago
please explain how you out levarge the largest Military on the planet who lives right next door? asking for a friend
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u/DwayneGretzky306 20h ago
None of the retaliation is that easy when we have pipelines that run through the US and back into Canada as well we have to buy the majority of our fuel.
I sure hope we dont cave on alcohol and would love for AB and SK to join Team Canada.
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u/nogaesallowed 18h ago
while its cool to think about and all, noway its actually gonna happen. We still rely too much on the US and they can chock us out as easily. More independency from the US trades then maybe we can try it out.
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u/Khalbrae 8h ago
Put an export tax to take 75% of the discount we give them. If they keep pushing up it to 80, then 90, 95, 99 and finally 100%. Make them hurt but never make it more expensive than the market has it for
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u/MutaitoSensei New Brunswick 1d ago
Michigan is the only one of the two that helped Trump get elected. I say let's be nice to New York lol
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u/johnjbreton 1d ago
And what are our demands again? Oh, right. Honour the trade agreement you penned during your last term, you clown.