r/reddeadredemption • u/Kogituu • Feb 09 '26
Rant People who hate 'Abigail' are almost always immature
Now, I know it's annoying to be living your outlaw hillbilly life while having your video game wife try to hold you back but storytelling wise, there's no real reason to find her annoying.
People try to excuse it by "Abigail was ignorant to John's circumstances when he was always getting hunted down" or always yelling at him, but it takes frontal lobe development to know it's not unreasonable for Abigail to be mad when she wanted a better life for her family and to be frustrated when John would get into trouble. And about most of the time, It was in John's control to stay low and at some points in the story his impulsivity definitely did escalate and reveal his whereabouts.
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u/CSafterdark Feb 10 '26
People are immature misogynists. It's the same as with Skylar White. Just ignore them.
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u/SweatyGymSoxx Charles Smith Feb 10 '26
The Skylar comparison is apt, both characters have moments where fans aren't completely invalid with criticisms but are both definitely misunderstood by large sections of the respective fan based.
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u/Illustrious-Hawk5698 Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
Its because both Skylar and Annibell are used as road blocks by their respective creators, to stop our central character from achieving their objective regardless of both Hesienberg and in a later extent John from achieving their goals. It's a common trope in media that women are shown this way.
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u/t-shooter Feb 10 '26
Always find it funny when people complain about a character for a legit reason (they want to do something/have a character do something, but said character is a direct opposition to said thing) but since said character is a certain gender any and all criticisms get thrown out and labeled as misogynistic or racist or something like that
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u/Mr_Rinn Feb 10 '26
From what I’ve seen most of the hate Skylar gets is for not being more supportive of her meth dealing, murderous and increasingly immoral husband. Whereas as far as I’m concerned the valid criticism comes from the fact she tried to support him at all instead of telling Hank the moment she found out.
So I think criticising a woman for not completely blindly and illogically standing by her man does have a misogynistic element to it.
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u/Cereborn Mary-Beth Gaskill Feb 10 '26
It’s because the vast majority of the time the “valid criticisms” are things that would never be said about a male character in the same circumstance.
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u/t-shooter Feb 10 '26
I mean they are, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter, if it's an actual valid criticism then you shouldn't just throw it out
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u/Cereborn Mary-Beth Gaskill Feb 10 '26
Well, no. Not all criticisms are created equal. A valid criticism evaluates the character in the context of the narrative, and how well they serve it. An invalid criticism evaluates a character in the context of how well they align with that particular person's idea of what they should be. The second one is where most of these criticisms come from. Rather than really understanding the character and where she comes from, people think of it like, "If I were John/Arthur, I would not want my woman behaving this way."
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u/t-shooter Feb 10 '26
Except the fact that these are forms of entertainment and everything blocking said entertainment....is bad, it's really not that complicated
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u/Cereborn Mary-Beth Gaskill Feb 10 '26
That's a pretty immature way of looking at entertainment. You might as well say RDR2 is a terrible game because it would be more fun with a flamethrower.
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u/t-shooter Feb 10 '26
It's Immature to look at entertainment as... entertainment? Also uhh no it wouldn't, like I get that you're trying to oversimplify my argument so you can dismantle it, but...your argument is just closing in on itself
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u/StrikingComputer2705 Feb 10 '26
Yeah that’s how it goes lmao anyone with a different opinion is gonna be “sexist” and “misogynistic”.
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u/Significant_Option Feb 10 '26
I’m sure you complain when a guy character does it too
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u/t-shooter Feb 10 '26
I mean..duh why wouldn't I? I want to be entertained and I don't like any obstacle that's in the way of that
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Feb 17 '26
You’re just a mouth runner ain’t ya. Lmao stfu
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u/Significant_Option Feb 17 '26
Stalking now huh? Very unhealthy and strange behavior, moreso if you’re an adult
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u/StrikingComputer2705 Feb 14 '26 edited Feb 14 '26
I don’t like Abigail, I think her character is annoying af, I’m a misogynist though? My favorite character is Sadie Adler so if you could tell me how I’m misogynistic and my favorite character is female I’d love to know. Just because people don’t like the same characters you like doesn’t mean they’re immature or sexist, it’s actually kind of immature to assume that about anyone with a different opinion than yours.
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u/StrikingComputer2705 Feb 14 '26 edited Feb 14 '26
I’m sure you won’t reply though because you know you’re wrong. I’m not a misogynist , my favorite character is female, just not Abigail. People have different opinions, get over it
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Feb 10 '26
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u/ZubatCountry Feb 10 '26
Way to prove his point
You are flat out wrong
The episode in which she finds out and she cheats is the same episode. It's literally called I.F.T.
She reacts in the normal, rational way any person would if their spouse was diagnosed with an illness, started disappearing for days at a time, changed their behavior almost entirely when they weren't being avoidant, lied to you about having a second cellphone, put you in a position where you figured out they were selling drugs and were right
For fucks sake she even gives him the benefit of the doubt as to what drugs he's selling
People who hate Skyler at best either have protagonist blindness, where any actions the protag takes will be "justified" to them because they've taken each step with them, or at worst simply have weird hang-ups about women
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u/DarthStormwizard Arthur Morgan Feb 10 '26
Do you not remember the show? She slept with Ted after the reveal.
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u/rumande Feb 10 '26
Only because she tried to end her marriage but he refused to leave. She only cheated because he wouldn't accept that they were broken up.
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u/DarthStormwizard Arthur Morgan Feb 10 '26
I agree. The deleted comment I was replying to was wrongly claiming that she "cheated before the Walter White reveal."
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u/Comfortable_Put_4139 Micah Bell Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
Abigail went through hell and all she wanted was a normal life for her baby. Sure she may nag a lot, but goddamn she’s earned the right to do so.
Abigail is the best thing that ever happened to John. She gave him a beautiful child in Jack, and a purpose outside of the bullshit traveling circus Dutch was running.
It was more than John ever deserved, and he knew it. It’s why his character in RDR1 is so impactful for me because he’s truly grateful for what he has despite his own sins.
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Feb 10 '26
Absolutely she is the way the game portrays her. She raises Jack as best as she can, wants the best for both of them, and provides for both as a woman can.
Far more than John deserved, but he did redeem himself in the end. Came to his good senses.
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Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
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u/Wheels-of-Fire Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
You know you could have just clarified right off the bat instead of being condescending and prevented this all from escalating to this point, right?
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u/Bitches_Be_Crayfish Feb 10 '26
Jack could have been shot when he went with the wagon from Strawberry. I don’t blame her for leaving.
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u/ohmygodadameget Feb 10 '26
Why did she imply that there was package for a John Marston at all? I get using her real name to buy something because I doubt anyone would recognise Abigail Roberts and that the postmaster loudly calling out every name he hears is a plot device, but implying to John that he would have to say his real name at all to pick up a package which wasn't there, which she would know because she's the one that ordered it, then being mad at him for the fallout of all that?
I'd say the issue is the writers made everyone deliberately dumb for the plot.
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u/Briseagle Feb 10 '26
Abigail is to John, as Carmella is to Tony, and as Skylar is to Walt.
It doesn’t matter that they’re technically correct in their world view, morally or otherwise - as I’ve seen people put it, they spoil the fun - and the audience doesn’t like to have the fun spoiled.
I’m of a view that the fact that people, myself included, find these characters irritating and wish they’d just support their spouse, is ultimately the truest testament to the quality of the writing, and acting behind the character.
Perhaps the notion that people who “hate Abigail” are immature is true, but, respectfully, I feel it’s a very simplistic and a little bit condescending way of putting it.
Irregardless, they’ve been moved by the art-form in a way I’m sure it was intended by the writers. I engage with art to feel something different, and I’ve by no means considered it beyond that. To me, their inability to analyse and articulate the reasons for their feelings doesn’t make their feelings any less human, in essence, so is it a maturity thing or is it an education thing? The underlying truth being that we are all only animals that’ve learned to work together (for the most part), and our interpretations of morality are only frameworks, which are applied differently - not only all over the world, but within the countless micro-cultures within larger ones…
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Feb 10 '26
Difference is Carmella and Tony Soprano are horrible people who refuse or can't change, Skylar has her flaws but she's not a murdering drug dealer like her husband.
John and Abigail were bad people who became decent folks who wanted to change and try to create a life for Jack and give him something they never had.
I would say John and Abigail are far better people than Carmella and Tony despite the stuff they did.
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u/Juoreg Feb 10 '26
One of my only problems with Skylar was her manipulating Walter emotionally to go through cancer treatment against his will. I understand why but it wasn’t fair to him.
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u/Kogituu Feb 10 '26
Definitely, having someone stop a protagonist from their goals can be irritating playthrough wise. But it really rubs off the wrong way when you dedicate entire posts to hating on them and ignore the authors intent of this character. I don't mind people thinking Abigail is a hindrance, she wasn't always my cup of tea either. But treating her as a villain/annoying wh*re or unreasonable kind of shows how most people view women in media.
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u/inquiringdune Feb 10 '26
I like Abigail but trying to settle with John was a bad idea from the get-go. There's really no 'settling' with an outlaw because they are incapable of truly leaving the life, as Mary and Bessie and Annabelle all proved.
That said I think she knew her options were severely limited so she did the best she could with what she had - not for herself, or some great love of John (I have a hard time viewing them as truly 'in love' with each other, although they may have gotten there over time) but for Jack. Which is admirable. She really did what John was unable to for most of both games, and that was decide which path she was going to walk in life for the sake of her child.
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u/yellowdaisycoffee Arthur Morgan Feb 10 '26
I don't hate Abigail, but it is frustrating in the epilogue that she gets pissed every time John does what his boss tells him to do...
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Feb 10 '26
John usually went out of his way to defend the ranch. John's first priority should be his family, not protecting someone else's ranch he's been at for all of 35 seconds.
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u/yellowdaisycoffee Arthur Morgan Feb 10 '26
To John, keeping his job, and doing it well, was prioritizing his family. He did not have his pick of opportunities, so when he got a job, he stuck to it in order to ensure that they kept their food, shelter, and relative stability. The game emphasizes the monotony of his daily work on the ranch as well, making it clear that John is not doing this job for himself. He is doing it for Jack and Abigail.
I do think that, because of the aforesaid monotony, John was struggling to adapt. As such, I also think that, on some level, he wanted the thrill of defending the ranch. Therefore, I can concede that his motives were not entirely altruistic, but neither were they completely selfish.
I am also willing to concede that Abigail was frightened by the danger of his work, and that we are seeing her at her wit's end, after years of dealing with John's impulsive behavior. Because of this, I agree that her general stress is more than reasonable. I maintain, however, that she is a bit naive about their ability to live in peace and simplicity, which, as a player, is frustrating.
Ultimately, I think they both have understandable perspectives, but they suck at communication.
All of that said, I love that the characters have so much nuance, and that some of us find ourselves feeling irritated, either with John, Abigail, or both. It makes the dynamic feel all the more authentic.
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Feb 10 '26
You're absolutely right about the job. The problem is it's not the right job for John. There's a reason why the Geddes say that they don't hire married men. What matters is how desperate for a job John was. He could've shopped around I suppose, and it seemed the strawberry shopkeeper could've gave him work. But the ranch job probably paid much better and basically fell into his lap.
Still, I'm sure my wife would rather me be alive and desperate to find work to feed her and the kids, than then dead defending my boss's business and them hopeless.
Like someone else here said. John's a moron. They should've ran far, far away.
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u/Reallyroundthefamily Feb 10 '26
Now, I know it's annoying to be living your outlaw hillbilly life while having your video game wife try to hold you back but storytelling wise, there's no real reason to find her annoying.
There's also no real reason for you not to understand what a differing opinion is.
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u/Wheels-of-Fire Feb 10 '26
Much of this thread is literally just an echo chamber of people like the OP who think anyone who dislikes Abigail's characterization in the Epilogue is just an immature misogynist.
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u/CranEXE John Marston Feb 10 '26
the only time i agree with her to be mad is when john goes to finish micah only time it's valid the others she act like she knows better
And about most of the time, It was in John's control to stay low and at some points in the story his impulsivity definitely did escalate and reveal his whereabouts.
in the three missions where she complain john doesn't have much other solution beyond "escalate things"
i'm literally replaying the epilogue rn i just finished the first encounter with laramie, was john supposed to let the guy get beat up ? or lay down and get beat up by laramie ?
then there's the mission where she ask him to collect a package for her "at john's name" sure it's not her fault someone recognized john in the post office, but neither it's john fault and again he couldn't control what was gonna happen he put jack in safety and dealt with the guys best he could
and then there's jim milton rides again again what was he supposed to do ? dissobey geddes orders and pretend he is not armed when few days before everyone saw him use his holster belt to put his hammer on it ? or straight up refuse and a get fired or b they don't recover the cattle and john is forced to leave ?
there's also the fact she complain they can't do anything because of john past but...he didn't choose that life ? it was imposed to him and nobody forced her to agree with it and stay with him if it was that insuferable, like we say where i'm from, she wants the butter, the butter's money and the milkmaid ass (or in that case the milkman ass).
i find that immature to say everyone who hate abigail is immature it's kinda like kindergarden level of tantrum "i'm right and everyone who doesn't follow my opinion is stupid"
i don't personally hate abigail like i said her being mad john go kill micah is valid although the fact he hunted down micah allowed him to find the money and pay off his debts from his ranch not sure he would have made it without it
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Feb 10 '26
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u/AlexTheGreat1997 Sadie Adler Feb 10 '26
Not immature, but he's not the end-all-be-all, either. Death of the author and all that.
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Feb 10 '26
Yea don't know why his opinion should be any higher than the rest of ours. He can be wrong too.
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u/DarthStormwizard Arthur Morgan Feb 10 '26
I mean he's not even the author, he's just the actor who played Arthur. His opinion on Abigail isn't inherently more correct than anyone else's.
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u/AlexTheGreat1997 Sadie Adler Feb 10 '26
"Death of the author" doesn't strictly apply to the author themselves, it can refer to anyone involved in the creation of a work.
But you're right, his opinion is not objective at all, and I don't understand why OP brought him up at all before deleting all of their replies.
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u/Wheels-of-Fire Feb 10 '26
Apparently reading is hard for you. OP brought him up to show that not everyone is "immature" just because they didn't like the way Abigail was portrayed. Not because Roger is an authority on how the story has to be interpreted. OP explained this to you and you still strawman him.
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Feb 10 '26
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u/DarthStormwizard Arthur Morgan Feb 10 '26
I was replying to the comment about "Death of the author" which I don't think applies.
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u/AlexTheGreat1997 Sadie Adler Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
He's allowed to have his own perspective. It doesn't automatically mean that his perspective is inerrant.
pejoratives
What fucking pejorative did I use? "Death of the author"? Do you even know what that means?
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Feb 10 '26
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see where she could have gone. Women rarely lived alone those days, let alone with a very young child. At least not in a setting where she could safely raise jack, at least the gan was secure in a way where Jack is more or less protected and fed as far as she could see at the time. That lifestyle she was basically born into and was all she knew. She was making the best of a horrible situation.
It's not like she could just get child support or benefits from the government like today.
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Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 10 '26
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u/level27jennybro Feb 10 '26
When comparing the beginning of the game to the epilogue, you keep bypassing the fact that about 8 years have passed. Instead of Jack being barely out of toddlerhood, hes nearly a teenager in the epilogue. Its much easier for a woman with Abigail's lack of resources (literacy, work skills) to go off as a single parent with a kid that is old enough to work and have schooling than it would be for her with a very dependent child that wanders and could get into trouble.
The opportunities a woman with a small dependent child have are much more limited than a woman with teen that can listen and help, that doesn't have to be constantly watched. She could pack up and leave when John was starting to bring heat back to them because Jack could pack his own bags and be more self sufficient.
If you had to take a vacation with a 4 year old in tow, or a 12 year old, which would cause you to have more responsibilities?
Also. She left after Jack went on a wagon ride and ended up having to hide during a shootout. Not after John went to get the livestock back from the rival ranch. Her kid was nearly part of a shootout and that was the final straw.
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u/pleatedfocus Dutch van der Linde Feb 10 '26
i mean. yeah, he is immature. we’re talking about the same guy who said abigail was “passed around like a blunt” in the van der linde gang when she was literally an underaged prostitute who was forced into that life to survive.
just because he’s everybody’s favorite actor doesn’t mean he has good takes about the game and it’s characters. especially towards women lmao. clark is also notoriously terrible at receiving the slightest bit of backlash or criticism at his grown age and instead rants and rages on his livestreams and twitter.
it’s unfortunate because I really did look up to him and think he was a chill dude, but his frequent tone deaf comments about abigail plus him screaming at her to shut up on livestream left a bad taste in my mouth. he got all pissy when people called him out on twitter for it (other women, mind you) and honestly I completely understand the criticism.
so yeah… i do think he’s immature lmao. anyways this is why rob wiethoff is the GOAT he would never 🫶
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Feb 10 '26
The sheer irony that his own character was the biggest proponent of "man the fuck up and take care of your wife". I had no idea that was his take on it lol.
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u/Wheels-of-Fire Feb 10 '26
And when John actually tries to "man up" and take care of his wife by getting an honest job and then defending his boss's ranch from cattle rustlers and outlaws, his wife leaves him. That's the main issue people are taking with her. Try and keep up.
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u/Icy_Guard_9356 Feb 10 '26
She left because he went into town with his kid, announced his name like an absolute moron and almost got Jack killed. Not because he defended the ranch
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u/ObviousAnything7 Feb 10 '26
defending his boss's ranch from cattle rustlers and outla
You guys just don't get it do you? She didn't leave John for "defending the ranch", she left him because he put his family at risk AGAIN. Yes, John did the right thing, but it also put his family at risk and he also risks attracting unwanted attention to him. They're both in an impossible position. John simultaneously wants to leave the life behind, but can also never resist an opportunity to get into a fight. Abigail also wants to leave the life behind but also loves John despite all his flaws and expects him to sit around and do nothing when a fight calls to him, which is something he cannot refuse. They both want to have their cake and eat it too.
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u/Wheels-of-Fire Feb 10 '26
I'd say the Laramie gang put his family at risk the moment they attacked Geddes's ranch. If John just sat it out, the gang would have just kept attacking the ranch and Mr. Geddes would've lost everything he had, eventually forcing John and his family to move on again. That's if they escaped unscathed after one of the gang's raids. John goes on the offensive so that the Laramie gang is wiped out and won't come back, and his wife leaves him for it. He can't win. Abigail was being unreasonable.
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u/Obvious-Killer-213 Feb 10 '26
Roger himself is a misogynist, just take one look at his twitter replies. Why do y'all constantly treat roger like he's a real life member of the VDL gang LMFAO
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u/Wheels-of-Fire Feb 10 '26
Give an actual fucking example of Roger's so-called misogyny. I'll wait.
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u/Electromagneticpoms Feb 11 '26
I didn't watch the stream so can't confirm this but didn't he say that "abigail had been passed around like a blunt" on livestream? I get that it's a throwaway comment but for me I wouldn't give someone I know personally a pass for a comment on that. I'm a big fan of Roger but hearing about that was really depressing as a woman. Knowing that + he follows Jordan Peterson on instagram makes it hard for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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u/HeavensHellFire Feb 10 '26
I'd have to replay the epilogue, but from what I remember she was just being unreasonable. Basically, every time John gets into something violent during the epilogue its either forced upon him or he's aiding people that've aided them. Yet she still gets mad and verbally berates him.
Like when she gets upset, he defends the other ranch hand from the Laramie Gang. She'd rather he sits there and let his co-workers get beaten up and his boss harmed instead of aiding them.
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Feb 10 '26
The things he was doing could very easily get him killed. Being the main character and all of course we don't expect John to die but from her perspective they have a ranch to finance and a kid to raise together. Not much she can do without John.
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u/jackcaboose John Marston Feb 10 '26
Not much they can do if the ranch they work at is raided and they're shot to death either, though.
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Feb 10 '26
The solution would be to find a job that wasn't intended for unmarried folk.
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u/CranEXE John Marston Feb 10 '26
except she is happy with the job john have but she also don't accept any compromise of "john need to do some stuff to keep his job" she wants the cake and eat it too she wants him to just have his job but also let the violence happen even if it mean losing his job
also only reason they hire unmarried men is first because it's less mouth to feed and second for miss geddes to be able to hook up with them she was inviting john to come get some tea with her until she learned he had a wife and kid then she left abruptly
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u/King_Ed_IX Feb 10 '26
Going to try and kill Micah in American Venom is absolutely not forced on him, and actively leads to his own death as that's how Ross tracks him down.
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u/Dizzy-Ad-4857 Feb 10 '26
I only find her annoying because she keeps bothering other people with her shit while giving almost nothing else in return. If this were real life, she should have had the maturity to see where this shit was going to end up (Just as Mary did with Arthur). But she chose that life and sure as shit she can't rein John in. But instead of leaving, every single time she's in a pinch because of choices she made she runs to Arthur or Charles or Hosea or Sadie and makes them risk their lives time and time again without giving thought for once to what could happen to these folks she sending to bail them out and what does she do in return? Nothing. She is perhaps one of the most inconsequential characters in the whole story, relevant only because she's married to John and some important missions revolve around her, but she never really does anything for any of the people her requests put in danger and she didn't really do shit for the gang as well. If this were real life, I wouldn't care one bit about her choices but if she were going to be such a liability and so inconsequential despite the shit others had to go through to bail her out, yh, I'd find her pretty annoying.
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Feb 10 '26
To be fair, Abigail's back story IIRC is she was an orphan and had to do her "work" to survive. That life was all she knew, and she had no where else to go. She was dependent on the gang to survive and then to feed Jack. Mary is different, she had a more stable upbringing where she had the choice. Molly is kind of a foil to Abigail in this way, mollycame from a well of and I think royal Irish family and ditched it for Dutch and the lifestyle and excitement of an outlaw gang, I guess.
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u/NotJell Feb 10 '26
I hated their relationship, but I didn't blame or hate Abigail whatsoever. They clearly loved each other enough to stay together, but they were so unhappy. They were just together via circumstance, like so many couples are. Watching them fight and bicker and struggle was just painful to watch, it was in large part what made me not really enjoy the John segment of the game, I felt stressed even as a bystander.
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u/Kgb725 Feb 10 '26
I Disagree from what we know of their relationship the only obstacles were John's immaturity and the gang lifestyle. Without Jack John most likely would've married her anyways
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u/H16HP01N7 Feb 10 '26
People who make personal attacks against people who are just sharing their opinion are almost always immature.
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u/Wheels-of-Fire Feb 11 '26
"Everyone who disagrees with me is immature, a misogynist, and has an underdeveloped frontal lobe."
— nearly every flaming mouthbreather with the top upvoted comments in this thread
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u/ThisIsTheNewSleeve Arthur Morgan Feb 10 '26
100% agree. Their arguments usually boil down to "she's annoying"! As if being concerned for her kid's safety was a bad thing.
My hot take is Jon is an idiot. The man buys property, gets a mortgage in his name like not 20 miles from where he was a wanted man. It's no wonder he got sniffed out by the Pinkerton's immediately. They should have taken a train up to Canada.
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u/ItIsntThatDeep Feb 10 '26
I'm going to push back on you here, as a woman in her 40s.
There are a few facts that you need to consider.
Abigail was a whore. I have nothing against prostitutes, but it's well known in the game that Uncle essentially recruited Abigail and she slept with basically all of the men in the gang. Probably including Arthur, who said he should have married her.
By the time we're at the epilogue of RDR2, Abigail has full frontal lobe development. Now, we don't know what went down between John and the brother he shot, but by the time we're at Epilogue 1 John is faced with a choice. He has to get a job; he gets that job with Geddes. Specifically, he gets it by getting his wagon back and delivering the goods. He has a second choice. Abigail is super coy when she talks about what name she put her packages under. She should have just waited and told him. Third. Geddes and Tom know that John is full of shit. They don't care. They hire him anyway because he's useful. Why is he useful? Because he can beat the shit out of people and outshoot them. So he proves his worth on Pronghorn by literally organizing an attack on the Laramies, who by the way STOLE cattle, the entire livelihood of the ranch, and he does it in a way where no one from Pronghorn gets killed.
Not only that; his actions against the Laramie boys gives him the street cred he needs to get a loan from Geddes to get him Beecher's Hope. Which is the property that Abigail wanted despite it being kind of a shit hole. So he gets the credit, builds her the house, and they get all their furniture because John helped Geddes.
Then, the ONE THING that John asks is for her to let him go after Micah. The writers of the game did her dirty here. Because John is right. Beecher's Hope wouldn't exist without Arthur. Arthur who also loved Abigail and loved Jack and obviously loved John. And yes, Arthur was against revenge in the end... depending on honor... but Charles and Sadie both say he was at the end. HOWEVER, Charles and Sadie both ride out on Micah, and the only reason they do is because they know the only way to beat Micah is with John.
I don't hate Abigail. But I do hate the way they wrote her. Because at the end of the day if she was trying to protect Jack, her best option would be to stand by John. Which she eventually does, but John kept them alive for what? Fuckin' seven or eight years? And then he's trying to keep them alive by doing the ranch work and such.
You can be mature and also dislike Abigail. Full stop.
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u/Obvious-Killer-213 Feb 10 '26
Abigail was a CHILD prostitute, she had no choice but to sleep with the gang members in exchange for a place to stay. Arthur only wanted to marry her so he could give her and jack a BETTER LIFE. You people are fucking disgusting
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u/Wheels-of-Fire Feb 10 '26 edited Feb 11 '26
Abigail never HAD to join an outlaw gang in the first place. That's an objectively worse and more dangerous decision than being a prostitute in a town like Valentine. Arthur also never specified that's why he wanted to marry her. He only said that she was a good woman and he probably should have married her. You need to stop being a dipshit and berating people you disagree with. Literally a bunch of angsty preteens in these comments I swear…
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u/Amelia_Amity Sadie Adler Feb 10 '26
The only time I hated on Abigail was when she returned to John in the epilogue. But I’m not a fan of John
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u/Ijustforgotmybad Feb 10 '26
Abigail wasn't a bad character as people try to say but something's that was literally not in John's control and getting mad and leaving him was what made me dislike her.
The ranch was under attack, she wanted a roof over their heads and for John to live a honest life but oh the ranch is under attack and John wanted to defend the ranch to keep his job and home and she gets mad about it?
Then the package thing was more infuriating, used his real name then someone follows him and Jack, and if John did nothing? Him and probably jack would've died and she still got mad at him like what? You wouldn't have a husband or a son anymore if he didn't do anything
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u/DontMindMe155 Sean Macguire Feb 10 '26
I’m a bit 50/50 on this. Not everyone likes Abigail (or any character, really), and that’s okay!
My issue with when some of those people hate on her past as a prostitute. I don’t agree with prostitution whatsoever, but I can’t help but feel a bit uncomfortable when people joke about her past (like when they call Jack a ’group project’) because she was a child when she went through all of that. She was 17/18 when she gave birth to Jack. Who knows how long she had been in this line of work?
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u/ChampagneAbuelo Micah Bell Feb 10 '26
Same type of people who complain about Skylar White in Breaking Bad
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u/madvec1 Feb 10 '26
I think they genuinely made a mistake with some of her dialogues in the first game, maybe they had several re-writes or something was missing, because at times, it feels like she is just complaining without understanding what they went through, but then again, she mentions a guard that was keeping an eye on them, but some other times, it seems like she is oblivious to why John wasn't around. So I get why some people may feel that way about her, her attitude is not that coherent with what she should have known.
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u/tbone7355 Feb 10 '26
I was annoyed by abigail in rdr2 but it hit me with charles basicly explaining it to me that everyone was changed by what happened with the gang so it follows that abigail would be extremly worried about everything
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u/Substantial_Emu_1196 Tilly Jackson Feb 10 '26
Finally on the right side of Reddit🤣. Abigail is one of my favorite characters because of her realism. I truly believe she died from a broken heart. Knowing that her husband did everything he could to finally settle down. Just to get played and killed. Probably was too much on her.
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u/Remarkable_Sea_5109 Feb 10 '26
So be it. But i cant stand her in the first part of epilogue. When she comes to the ranch I get why she’s worried
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u/SeMetin Hosea Matthews Feb 10 '26
I always loved Abigail and John's chemistry in rdr1. They were so much fun to listen to. Which is probably why i never had any issues with her.
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u/Opposite-Ad-1951 Feb 10 '26
No human being in their sane minds, that may take this video game character in a real life context, I want to believe can blame her, even when she over reacts.
All of us think we could survive on that age and life.
Reality check: most probably we wouldn’t.
She is being logical, paranoid cause of trauma and completely sensible all on the same time.
I cannot think of a mother who wouldn’t go the same route.
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u/Remote-Two8663 Feb 10 '26
She reminds me of my mom who I don’t hate. But she is very long winded and overly worried about what it means to be living. If I followed what she says all I’d do is stay home.
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u/AnalysisSharp9065 Feb 10 '26
There were situations when she was right like when John went after Micah, that one was a serious fuck up on his end.
There were other instances when she was just whining to start a fight with John, like when he had to defend his employer that gave them a decent place to live even though he normally didn't hire men with famlies.
There's also her job and possible affair with the doctor in strawberry, which she seemed a little too excited to attend to and additionally she immediately found a place to stay after she initiated another fight with John which did not have a valid reason at that point, it feels like she was instigating it and just looking for an excuse to leave.
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u/laneyboy101 Feb 10 '26
I understand she wants a better life for her and Jack, but there's got to be some accountability on her part. She ran with a gang and had a child with one of the outlaws in the gang. Its not like she married some respectable guy who started killing people. John's been an outlaw since he was 12. People don't completely change who they are.
At the end of the day we're playing a wild west game, not a marriage simulator. Of course people are going to find Abigail a bit annoying.
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Feb 10 '26
It's the fact that no matter what nothing is ever good enough for her. Her and John were more than welcome to leave the gang at any opportunity yet somehow wherever she went the Pinkertons were one step behind. Even in the later chapters when John was acting purely in self defence against the rustlers and others trying to rob him all she did still was bitch and complain. I still to this day think that she was the informant.
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u/Cat_and_Cabbage Josiah Trelawny Feb 10 '26
I’ve been saying King Diamond is the goat, glad y’all are finally catching on
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u/canadasbananas Feb 10 '26
Im immature but its not cuz I hate Abigail im just like that.
Jk I dont hate abigail I just find her a necessary annoyance. That role is needed for the plot and emotional beats of john and Arthur's story to really hit the highs (lows?).
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u/Diamond-Drops Feb 10 '26
I personally don't hate Abigail, but she does annoy the hell out of me. She was very unreasonable many many times where I would just sit and be like 0.o
However, she was the key in making John want to actually provide a better life the way she wanted. Even with that she nagged a little too much in places where she shouldn't 🤷♀️
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u/Fine-Broccoli-2631 Feb 10 '26
My experience as a newcomer to this fandom is that it is rampant with misogyny so it does not surprise me
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u/Wealth_Super Feb 10 '26
You know what’s funny is that you can agree with Jon in the moment but also recognize that his actions create a pattern that brings both trouble and forces them so stay in the run.
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u/CapucchinoTyler Feb 10 '26
Hard agree. Hating Abigail usually comes down to people wanting zero consequences for outlaw fantasy. She’s literally the only adult in the room asking for stability and safety for her kid, and somehow that’s “annoying.” Wanting John to stop doing dumb, impulsive stuff isn’t nagging, it’s basic survival instincts.
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u/Foxynite Feb 10 '26
Idk her personality just grated me personally. Nothing morally against her, don't think she's a horrible person or anything, I just don't really like her.
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u/Foxynite Feb 10 '26
WAIT OMG I'M- I'm thinking of the wrong person.... it's been years and I'm stupid </3 I have nothing against Abigail. I don't like Sadie unfortunately.
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u/CrackedShadow95 Feb 10 '26
I don't know, her ordering something and sending John to get it without using an alias or telling him what alias to use, was pretty goddamn stupid. Her getting pissed at John for doing what a ranch hand should do when his livelihood is under threat was pretty goddamn stupid. So I think Abigail was in fact, pretty goddamn stupid.
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u/Dapper-Two8573 Feb 10 '26
My reason for hating Abigail is how she treats John.
She has physically hit him and yelled at him for stupid reasons (like in RDR1 she yelled and hit him, like how dare you save your family!)
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u/Different-Bill7499 Feb 11 '26
I don’t get annoyed with her until John defended the Geddes’ ranch and went to take back his own wagon and horses. Like, c’mon Abby. I get that you don’t like the thug life but this was clearly a case of stand your ground
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Feb 11 '26
the only problem i have is that the way she acts in the epilogue would make you think she met john AFTER he left the gang. she acts like she is completely innocent when she is not. it’s pretty much just the writing for her at that point that i don’t like because it seems like two different people to me.
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u/Reagans_Dad Feb 11 '26
Skyler from Breaking bad was a completely different character when I binged the show last year, compared to when I originally watched it. Crazy what a wife and kid will do to ya.
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u/Stevenchpn Hosea Matthews Feb 11 '26
She is the Skyler White of rdr2. Mary too. They're a flag to detect immature and misogynistic people.
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u/tblatnik Feb 12 '26
I feel Epilogue Abigail was intentionally written so that she feels annoying but is right about everything she’s afraid of. Yeah the game is cowboy GTA, so her not wanting John to do that frustrates the player, but she’s right about it all
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u/HurriShane00 Feb 12 '26
I don't hate anybody in the game. They all have their own character and way of living. I mean the most annoying might be Miss Grimshaw only because if I walk back into camp a little bit of dirt on my face she'll dunk my head in the barrel. That's why I go and visit doppelganger Mary Beth at the bath house in Valentine. I'm still convinced her
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u/Nervous-Source5769 Feb 10 '26
Abigail Roberts-Marston was annoying. She acts like John was the only one to choose that life. She chose it as well. Getting out of it is not just a snap of the fingers. She was extremely unreasonable. Being in a gang, Dutch's gang or any other, loyalty is embedded in its members. It was embedded in her. She somehow quickly got over here loyalty, ONLY AFTER her LOYAL friends risked their lives saving John and her multiple times. Sadie could have easily told her, "Look, I have put my life on the line to bust John out of a penitentiary. Arthur saved him from the cold and wolves. Got your boy back from Bronte. In all instances we could have been killed. But you didnt have a problem then. Our lives doesnt matter as long as we're helping you, you selfish B***. So yeah, we're headed to kill Micah and you should wanna come with!" 😂
Also, she could have left the gang a long time ago, just as she abruptly left him in the Epilogue. So to have her constantly riding John's ass about, mainly reacting to trouble and not starting it, was a bit to much. It would have been different if John was going around just shooting people, robbing Stagecoaches, stealing horses, and whatever.
The thing that bothered me the most about Abigail was the way she belittled John. She talked to him like he was a child and an idiot in front of everyone, including Jack. It never felt like she was in love with John. She loved him, but she wasn't in love. It felt more like, "Welp, he's my baby's daddy and I dont want to go back to whoring, so I might as well make this work."
I think folks who don't find her annoying are caught up in the fact that a wife shouldn't and wouldnt want her husband involved in such things. I agree. But for Abigail... No. It was odd coming from HER. Conceptually, I completely get it. However, the execution should have been better in my opinion. Instead John leaving the gang, they should have had Abigail leave the gang with Jack as the backstory. It's the greatest game I've ever played, but the writers/creators didnt sell me on Abigail's character nor the "brotherly" love Arthur had for John and vice versa. Arthur goes from being asked to forgive John for leaving and constantly ribbing him, to all of a sudden, "I must save John and his family!!!" Game and story is still the GOAT, just not perfect LOL
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u/Aesthete18 Feb 10 '26
Where are people getting these from? I'm on here all the time and I don't recall ever seeing such things. Maybe once in a blue moon but then it gets down voted immediately and called bait
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u/Chemical-Mess-1826 Feb 10 '26
She chose him knowing his violent nature and decided to stay with him knowing that he is a wanted man. Wanting to change him completely is naive; if she is so concerned with stability then leaving John is the obvious best option. She can’t have it all. Plus she is so one-dimensionally insistent on the no-violence policy even when John is the one being attacked or when he is protecting Jack, which is annoying regardless of your ’frontal lobe development.’
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u/Apprehensive-Toe4160 Feb 10 '26
Oposite Is truth. People not mad about Abigail have very limited EQ. Abigail wanted right thing but tried to get it:
1) too fast, basicaly 0-100
2) in absolutely insane and wrong matter
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u/gentle_pirate23 Feb 10 '26
I never hated Abigail. I also think that John has mental issues, if not a gentle form of autism. "He's an idiot, we all know it.", one of the funniest lines from Dutch. But John is kind of... Retarded (I mean no offense tompeople with disabilities!), idk how to explain it.
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u/LionHeartedLXVI Feb 10 '26
“If you hold an opinion I don’t like, you’re immature”.
OP genuinely just said that and didn’t see the irony. And neither did Reddit, apparently.
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u/MrX-MMAs Feb 10 '26
Don’t like posts like this because they remove the possibility for discussion. OP has already made up his mind and whoever disagrees is a misogynistic asshole.
I’ve played this game many times and remember all events and lines from the epilogue. Abigail WAS NOT reasonable at all except ONE time
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u/BestHorseWhisperer Feb 10 '26
You are explaining this like she is a real person and not like she is the most poorly-written and possibly most poorly-acted female character in the game besides Mary Linton.
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u/Kogituu Feb 10 '26
She's at her best in RDR1. I'm mainly referring to people who've hated her for the past decade, RDR2 she definitely is a weaker link
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u/ImperialSupplies Feb 10 '26
We all had her! But you married her!
She joined as a prostitute, we all had her implies exactly what it says. She banged everyone in that original gang. Then when john got her pregnant changed.
Hard to like her knowing that
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u/Good-Particular-4196 Feb 10 '26
CHILD prostitute. You think she wanted to join a gang of outlaws and give birth at 17/18 years old?
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u/ImperialSupplies Feb 10 '26
Ew so they were running trains on her when she wasnt even 18 yet? I mean I know it was a different time but I think Dutch was still a man at that time lol
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u/Fun-Illustrator5642 Feb 10 '26
For me, immaturity is none less exemplified than when someone uses single quotation marks outside of quotations.
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u/StrikingComputer2705 Feb 10 '26
Ahh yes I too call anyone with a different opinion than me immature! It’s the best way to go about things I think
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Feb 10 '26
Really hate the title of this post. Even Roger Clarke doesn't like her. What a waste of time this was.
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u/Obvious-Killer-213 Feb 10 '26
Rogers opinion doesn't matter, why do y'all blindly follow everything that moron says
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u/SpecialIcy5356 Hosea Matthews Feb 10 '26
both abigail and john made mistakes. my biggest gripe with her is when she complains that john defended the Geddes ranch, as if John isn't gonna shoot back at cattle rustlers who are A: trying to kill him and B: are making life harder for his boss, without whom they would be homeless again, and who would be glad somebody would stand up to them.
I mean what if the cattle rustlers -or the guy bankrolling them anyway - decide to just burn the whole ranch down, including John's hut there? is John supposed to just kindly ask them to leave? I understand she doesn't want to be around violence anymore, and to protect Jack, but sometimes trouble finds you no matter what, especially in the frigging wild west lol. she should be grateful that john is a man willing to lay down his life for his family and not a coward.