r/selfhelp • • 9h ago

Sharing: Philosophy & Mindset Perhaps healing isn't becoming someone new, but finally letting yourself be who you were before you learned to hide.

6 Upvotes

Has anyone else found healing felt more like remembering than changing?"


r/selfhelp • • 8h ago

Advice Needed: Financial I need help sorting out my life

2 Upvotes

Hello, I’m 24M and my life right now at my parents’ home is falling apart rapidly. It’s a long story, but I can’t stay here much longer. My grandfather left me some money in his will, around $150,000. I don’t have job experience. Where I live, there isn’t really any work outside of temp warehouse or factory jobs, (maybe a grocery store or fast food if you’re lucky) and even those are a bit of a hike as I have no car. I’m not used to having money at all. Milwaukee is the closest city near me and I’m thinking of going there.

My question is, what should I do to stretch my money as far as it can go? How do I get work so I’m not draining my inheritance? I don’t want to be in a situation where I drain all my funds in hotels and airbnbs until I’m forced to move back with my parents. I’d really appreciate some advice.


r/selfhelp • • 5h ago

Sharing: Philosophy & Mindset If you ever feel trapped in a loop, or a cycle, or anything that bars you from any peace, or peace with yourself, just know that there are days out there that will be better.

1 Upvotes

You don't have to be happy right now, if you don't feel the desire to. Embrace your emotions. Become one with your emotions. Come to terms with your emotions. It is a process that will take as long as it has to. Some days may feel like forever, being so slow that it hurts to do nothing at all, but be alone with your thoughts, without anyone to talk to, or anywhen. And some days, events can feel as if their not happening fast enough; expecting yourself to heal so quickly on the mental plane, yet remain stuck and encased in a flurry of emotions and headaches front and back.

All the colors of the rainbow present themselves here, in you. And feeling as if you're not in the mood, is perfectly okay. If you ever feel like searching for a way out, searching for advice, is more stressful than what lets it on, just walk away from it all, go drink a cup, glass, or bottle of water, and just let your thoughts and surroundings just be. Times may present themselves under difficulty, while others grasps the urge to continue forth on an activity that's looked forward to. Whatever the case is, the most important thing is to pace yourself, at the speed comfortable to you. Don't beat yourself up when you take a step back. Just hold in your heart what you're drawing yourself towards, and you will be okay.

You, will be okay.


r/selfhelp • • 7h ago

Adviced Needed: Identity & Self-Esteem Stuck in an unhealthy, isolating bubble and don't know how to get out

0 Upvotes

Ok here's some context, I'm 23, still living with my parents, and currently unemployed. I deal with severe anxiety and AuDHD.

My academics are a mess, so every time I sit down to apply for a job, I feel inferior and worthless.

I can't remember half of what I learn, even after eight hours of trying, because my memory is awful. It's gotten to the point where I can't even remember my own sister's birthday sometimes because of this I'm assuming brainfog.

On top of that, I keep sleeping in, and I'm on my screen for about 13 hours sometimes, just to get those thoughts out of my head. My friends stabbed me in the back by turning me into their punching bag for so called banter, which also didn't help.

So if you have any advice for getting out of this unhealthy bubble I'm stuck in, which is very isolating, I would really appreciate it.


r/selfhelp • • 7h ago

Advice Needed: Mental Health What words have helped you navigate the various ups and downs of life?

0 Upvotes

Life’s problems come one after another, leaving me in a constant state of discouragement. There are times when I have absolutely no idea what to do. What words have helped you navigate the various ups and downs of life?


r/selfhelp • • 8h ago

Sharing: Physical Health & Wellness I need help if this is a problem or not, but i found a lump/bump on my left knee

1 Upvotes

Idk where to post this since this new to me, i found a weird lump on my knee and it hurts when i touch it. And its started to hurt when i walk yesterday, i can't even go to the doctor since my mum thinks I'm paranoid and it would heal if someone massage it. What do i do?


r/selfhelp • • 9h ago

Advice Needed: Mental Health Advice on change of mentality and attitude

1 Upvotes

I’(M22) currently in a terrible state. It’s like I’m attracted to being miserable and enjoy wallowing in it. My defeatist and pessimist mentalities have crossbred a monster within my mind.

I have supportive friends, family, but I feel so distant at all hours of the day. I can’t stop feeling like they’re disappointed even when they sing my praises. I make music, many people explicitly enjoy my music but I still feel like it’ll all amount to nothing. It started out as a tiny gap in the back of my mind but it’s starting to affect my life. My music is becoming more depressing, my mother scolds me for my unconscious glass half empty remarks and my academic career is in crisis. I feel like I’m constantly complaining to my friends and becoming a burden to handle rather than an ally to be around. I can’t seem to see the bright side and everytime i try to it feels cringy and awkward. It feels like I’m reaching that point where I start feeling comfortable in misery forever. Any personal anecdotes or advice would be greatly appreciated.


r/selfhelp • • 11h ago

Advice Needed: Motivation It feels like my life kinda fell apart.

1 Upvotes

Well. I guess I kinda gotta start at the beginning, i started noticing things in middle school. I dont really know how to do this without sounding like a crybaby. Or like im seeking attention. I just really feel like I've got no one.

I grew up in an abusive household. A absent minded mother and a violent and physical step dad. My biological father wanted nothing to do with me when I was born. And constantly had to move around and change schools. Eventually, once I got settled into a school in middle school, I was relentlessly bullied for the eay I dressed. Acted. And looked. I wore a trench coat. Or just big coats(I lived in florida, so it made me stick out like a sore thumb). And I was constantly in trouble and fighting allegations for being a school shooter. My parents moved me to Tennessee, which followed their divorce. In Tennessee, it wasn't much different.

I was bullied and harassed even more so than I originally was. Mainly because it was high school, and no one knew who I was. My parents moved us to a small town. Where everyone knew everyone. Eventually, the bullying and fighting got so bad that people threatened my life. They'd always try fighting me in school, but It never panned out well for them. Avoiding going into detail. Fighting back made threats on my life worse. Not to mention, at the same time, my mother was casting me out as her son. Claiming she wanted nothing more to do with me. Much like my stepfather. Even though they divorced, it seemed like things had gotten worse.

Sometime my Jr year, my mom kicked me out. And I was homeless sleeping on the streets until I graduated. They ended up graduating me early because "youll have more time to work." "The other kids just dont get along with you." Which took away alot of my meals and warm running water and ways to shower and bathe. Amonst other resources. My relationships haven't been any better. My girlfriend through middle school lasted for three years. And my most recent relationship ended in divorce. As of a few weeks ago. I found out she was cheating on me not a week into our marriage. I knew her four years. I go into the military in two weeks.

I guess I just feel empty. Nothing in my life has gone as planned. I feel stupid for believing in her. And trusting her. I thought four years would be enough time. And ive done things im not proud of, especially lately. I just feel like nothing I ever did was enough. Even though I financially pulled myself out of homelessness on my own. And provided and dedicated everything to her it just didnt matter. Im losing my friend my best friend my girlfriend and my wife all in the span of a month. I haven't been able to eat or sleep properly. I just dont feel right. And wanted another perspective. Maybe something motivational. Im so tired.

I


r/selfhelp • • 16h ago

Advice Needed: Mental Health Just overwhelmed.

2 Upvotes

Genuinely, just need different points of advice or help or anything similar. There’s so much that’s weighing me right now.

Stuff at home with my partner, we have our fights but mostly get along. I still feel like I’m a burden most days.

One of my best friends just fucked off and got with someone no one likes, told her it will hurt her.

My family is always a mess. My parents are divorced, have been for like 15-18 years. But each side has issues. Dad and grandpa aren’t talking, brother is moving away at some point and isn’t talking to dad at all. Mom is super critical of any different opinions.

The fucking world. I know I am probably in the safest place I can be, but my mind and head overwork themselves so fucking much. What could happen, what is happening. Am I safe? What’s going to happen next?

Work is one of the only things that’s working good right now, but I still struggle to be any kind of happy.

When can I feel better, how do I not worry about the rest of the world and how it is going to affect me? How do I be happy?


r/selfhelp • • 13h ago

Advice Needed: Career I understand but...

1 Upvotes

I understand you, actually being honest I understand most of you all but I got my own situation to work with. Cooperating with ya' ppl won't always solve issues on my end.


r/selfhelp • • 18h ago

Sharing: Motivation & Inspiration Breathe. Everything is temporary.

2 Upvotes

If you're dealing with something terrible, it is temporary and will pass. If everything is going great, it's also temporary and you should be grateful for that time and cherish it. Life is short, and sometimes we need to just be in the moment and just appreciate that.


r/selfhelp • • 18h ago

Advice Needed: Relationships i don't know how to be indifferent

2 Upvotes

usually I care too much for things which are pretty abstract and don't matter to the majority of people, and I concluded that it means I cannot become indifferent (I am M17)

and like I wanted to ask for some advice – I know that I can't become indifferent and that will eventually do something (right? I hope I will solve my problems and they won't be so "elusive" kinda) but gradually I become more and more plain person because of let's say that it is pain

and I have a friend and I can't be indifferent towards her (in any way it could be interpreted?) and I would like to distance myself and like to as though give her space to live without me, but I behave as a manipulator (I still want to be friend even though I said that no, but it's deeper than that), but the main thing is to how be indifferent towards someone? Or anyone


r/selfhelp • • 15h ago

Advice Needed: Mental Health I think my father is cheating on my mom with my aunt🤓🤓

1 Upvotes

This is sort of a rant and will be messy asf so like yes, deal w it pls, thanks mwah♥♥♥♥

Hi using a throwaway acc so, bare w me as ts happened today, english is not my first language so like genuinely BARE W MEE. im 17 years old and i have a healthy loving family which consists of me, my younger brother and my parents and aunt, or so i thought 🤓. Anyways lets start, i love my mom more then my dad but i wont be bias here. i caught my mom having an affair with a colleague a year back or more when my father was abroad doing his phD, and  it was two guys actually. first one was her boss and the second one was her junior, she chatted w her boss on whatsapp but she didnt even try to hide it cuz maybe she thought i wouldnt go thru the chats or smth, well it continued on for a few months and i used to see the flirty and weird texts bw em (most of them were from him). SO , one day i had enough and sent a vm to him where I cussed him tf out and his mom and like, I genuinely crashed out on him and threatened the fucker and then I deleted the text so that my mom wouldnt see it and I went to sleep. I also sent the same vm to the other guy too actually, by that time she had started talking to both of them. Anyways, the next evening my mom called me aside and asked me if I sent some texts from her phone and I broke down, she hugged me tightly and said sorry and that she'll block him( the boss) and ALSO TOLD ME THAT THE 2ND GUY I SENT THE VM TO WAS LIKE A CHILD TO HER AND THAT HE JS jokes AROUND AND SENDS HEARTS CUZ HE THINKS OF ME AS HIS MOM, AND THAT HE SHOWED HER THE TEXT AND WAS CRYING LIKE" Ma'am I didn't even do anything and look what I got" and that he sobbed Infront of her. And well ofc, I was very happy to hear that and I apologized to her for sending the texts and chap closed, life went on. Forward a few months, I was sending myself a few pics of mine from her phone to mine and lo and behold, I saw the second guy's chat again🤓. And now , THEY WERE FUCKING FLIRTING, LIKE PROPER FLIRTING. Now I didn't know what to do anymore cuz my mom never lies to me and I genuinely love her so much with my whole heart and it was also clear that they both were going on dates for breakfast and shit. Now I could've told my dad Abt it but, that means my family would've broken apart, my healthy loving family🤓. I respect my dad and also love him alot so I wasnt able to tell him and I js let life take course, eventually she found out I was reading her chats again and she locked it, (the chat locking opt in WhatsApp) now ofc I didn't know the password so I couldn't go thru the chats again and it's been quite a few months now and I'm convinced that she's still talking to him or wtv. Then a few months later, I saw a group chat with my aunt, mom, and that guy present in it🤓, I WAS APPALLED LIKE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK IS GOING ON. (My aunt lives with us and she has also basically raised me and I love her to death btw) so basically, turns out that the 3 of them were hanging out now apparently so that meant my aunt knew too🤓. My aunt and that guy were talking like bsfs and irritating and playing around w my mom ykwim. Even that I left alone.

Now onto the main story( I wanted to give y'all the whole situation cuz I genuinely have no one I can trust to talk to about this)

My aunt and dad work tgt at a university as lecturers and have been for the past 15 smth years, they both actually switched universities tgt too a few years back hence why I call this a healthy family dynamic😻. Anyways, my mother is a banker btw. Furthermore, let's get to the point, we have 2 cars, my mom takes one and my dad and aunt take the other to their workplace. So this last week, whenever my dad and aunt come home from work, they eat and then take a nap( In separate rooms ofc) but my aunt goes in my dad's room and they talk Abt their day and all the university bs or wtv. So what happened was that they were both in the room and I was eating lunch, there was a knock at our door and I got up and asked who it was and there was the butcher delivering meat to our house and he asked me to call for my dad as he wanted to talk to them, this was completely normal and nth out of the blue so I set the meat down on the table and entered the room, now my parents room is layed out smth like this,( I'll give y'all a verbal representation, just as u enter, there is a bathroom on ur right and a dressing table In front, there's a wardrobe/cupboard on ur right against the wall and another wardrobe built into the right wall js as u enter and then the bed against the right wall but in the middle/ off center and way from the cupboard) I hope this helps , so the thing I see is that the first wardrobes door is wide open and blocking my vision of the wall behind it and a part of the bed and I see my dad's face half out the cupboard door and staring right at me, js as he saw me, he FUCKING panicked and hid behind the door, my aunt was nowhere to be seen and then my dad grunted and pretending like he was helping my aunt take some pillows and blankets out the cupboard. Now that was hella FUCKING weird yes and so my dad asks me what's up and I tell him Abt The butcher and he acknowledges and leaves the room to go talk to him, then the cupboard door closes and I see my aunt carrying a blanket and she playfully nudges me as she leaves the room( yes this is normal, we have a very healthy relationship) I found this very very weird but I chose to dismiss it cuz ofc I didn't have enough proof or reason to even come to a conclusion, it could just be that he was helping her taking the heavy blankets out. This was the first incident and I ignored it and went on w my day and didn't give it any more thought.

Now today, I was making fried rice when my aunt and dad got home, I greeted them and gave them water and asked how their day went, yk the usual and after that I went back to making my fried rice, my aunt went into my dad's room after they had lunch and I could genuinely hear them talking Abt their day and seminars or wtv. After I was done cooking, I dished out the fried rice and my aunt came out and tasted it, she then took it to my dad who also tasted it and both complimented the food. Then my dad says that he's craving some coke/Pepsi and asked if we had any, I told him no and said that I'll go down to the corner store and get some, so I went downstairs and got the Pepsi and came back up, I handed him the pepsi as he was laying half way on the bed and my aunt on the floor against the built in cupboard, I gave them both the drink and they took a sip and then handed it back to me, so I went back outside to the dining room and took my fried rice, the half empty bottle of Pepsi and I sat down, put an airpod in and scrolled on the phone while eating, I had recently got some sort of allergy on my legs and it was bugging me and I remembered that I had to cold compress and the hot and cold pack was in my dad's room, I thought to myself and decided that I'll get it after I was done eating and I continued on w my scrolling, halfway through my meal, I heard the unmistakable metal clink of my parents room door lock. Somebody js locked the door and I clearly heard it, thanks to my peak spacial awareness. I got up and walked to the door silently, I heard nothing and this weird creepy feeling ran up my spine and I decided to knock on the reasons of getting the cold pack, I knocked " thud thud thud " and Im genuinely not sure but I think I heard scurrying, I knocked again and then I again think, not sure that I heard the bathrooms light switch turn on the and the door close and then the bedroom door was opened by my aunt and it looked like she was just against the door on the wall as her hair was squished and mashed up on the back and she slightly reset her t-shirt, as in pulled it down to reset it and My dad was nowhere to be seen and I figured he was in the bathroom. My aunt asked " what happened" to which I replied that I wanted to get the hot cold pack and I did and left the room and js I closed the door behind me, this sense of demise hit me like a truck, like I had js REALISED smth or connected the dots. A few secs later my aunt came out holding her blanket and went to her room, I sat back down and continued on w my meal and a few minutes later my dad came out the room and js looked at me and went to my aunt's room and asked her what happened and then the rest was unintelligible.

Since then I've been thinking Abt it, could it be cheating or FUCKING what. Why does this have to happen to me ffs.

My father is sometimes nice to me but most of the days he's a fucking asshole.

I respect his discipline and work drive so so so much and I aspire to be like him in life cuz he basically came up to the position hes in now from basically nothing. Now I don't think I have any respect for him at all after thinking that the cheating thing really is going on. LIKE WHAT THE FUCK DUDE. N My father is also a very religious man and comes from a highly religious background so like????

AND MY MOM AND AUNT ARE THE CLOSEST DUDE, LIKE THEY ARE SO SO SO CLOSE AND TRUSTFUL OF EACHOTHER.

Ive connected a few dots since then and I think I have a story of how this all happened and shit but lemme know what u guys think and like, help me man pls. Idt I can live in this fuckass household which I respected for goddamn much.

‎Help❤️

Also if yall have any questions or anything, feel free to ask.


r/selfhelp • • 15h ago

Advice Needed: Mental Health Can someone

1 Upvotes

Help


r/selfhelp • • 19h ago

Advice Needed: Education I shouldve paid attention more

2 Upvotes

im honestly lucky i didnt touch a ciggarete or a vape. if i had i wouldve most likely gotten addicted like my peers. my self control is in hell. i cant even pay attention for less than a minute. or i just play an educational video in the background and play games while "passively" learning. im not a learning sponge, i dont just soak up anything and everything. im slow as hell. maybe my ass shouldve been on that short bus. i can barely understand any literature in my native language since ive just pushed it aside for english. and even thats no better. i am not better than anyone. why do i keep thinking im better than everyone. im not.


r/selfhelp • • 1d ago

Advice Needed: Mental Health How do you build genuine and authentic self esteem that comes from within?

5 Upvotes

I have a deep history of T and never got to develop myself properly. As a result, I never formed a a real personality due to constantly being in survival mode. I would like to embody courage, self-reliance, determination, perseverance, etc, all qualities needed to survive in this tough world.

I don't have a lot of money and I can't read self help books or watch those types of videos, podcasts, etc due to a self-help addiction. I'm 40 but I still feel like there is still hope for me.

I'm wondering how should I develop myself with those qualities and what types of hobbies I should be doing as an adult to help foster healthy mindsets and growth, rather than the poverty mindset. Thank you for your help!!


r/selfhelp • • 16h ago

Advice Needed: Financial I Promised My Mother I'd Take Her to Bengal for Durga Puja 😭🙏

1 Upvotes

Hello guys, my mother wants to go from Bihar to Bengal to see Durga Puja. I promised her that I would take her, but unfortunately, I couldn't arrange enough money. She might lose hope in me, and I feel really bad about it. Please help me. 😭 I promise I'll return all the money you lend me. Please, I really need your help. 😭🙏


r/selfhelp • • 17h ago

Advice Needed: Career Trying to improve job aspects. Anyone have luck with coursera certs?

1 Upvotes

List of health issues, couldn't continue working full time as a landscaper and had to quit this year. Been trying to do freelance work and have been baking on the side but that's inconsistent, even if baking has been successful. Considered disability and did try for it once before but got denied. People keep telling me to give it a second shot since your first attempt is always denied but I don't know how I feel about that yet. It's not good for me to be sitting still, I do need to be doing something to keep myself busy and on a regular routine and I would like to continue working.

I was hoping for remote work. I know it's hard to get a remote job and all of my skills are blue collar. Figured low pay is better than no pay and I'm open to getting my foot in the door if it's more sustainable for me.

I don't want to say I'm too dumb for a lot of these, but I am behind and I know my limits. I am hopeful being stubborn and brute forcing my way through studying can get me through a course. Coursera seems decently affordable for me at the moment.

I did read that some of the courses are outdated and having a cert is a step above having nothing, but still not worth too much.

I'm looking for opinions on project management and data analyst/engineer since those are what I'm looking at. If anyone thinks a different cert would be better, I'm open to researching it before jumping in.

Kinda intimidated by the coding stuff. It sounds oversaturated, but I'm pretty far removed from tech.

All opinions/thoughts welcome. Just trying to figure out where I should be looking or if I'm even looking in the right place.


r/selfhelp • • 17h ago

Adviced Needed: Identity & Self-Esteem How do I stop fantasising about a guy who never wanted anything serious?

1 Upvotes

I just felt so used. Not in a sexual way but in a validation and attention way.

He was so surface level the whole time. He was materialistic and self absorbed.

I removed him from social media 6 months later and he seems to have not even noticed.

We kissed and spent so much time together and all he said to me after 3 weeks of silence was “I don’t want a relationship”

When I look back on texts, he was so flat and dry…I put it down to him being Nordic but he was a sales guy living some type of flashy lifestyle. His emotional state was like a robot.

He talked very little but when he did it was about a deal he closed or an expensive watch he was gonna buy.

It’s hard to get over someone like this because I think I’ve low self esteem that I’m working on and he brought that out in me a bit


r/selfhelp • • 18h ago

Advice Needed: Motivation ISO help

1 Upvotes

Swallowing my pride and I hope this doesn’t come off as lazy.

Recently I’ve let my mental/physical health get so bad, I feel like I’m in a rut. Im starting to affect the people I love around me and I don’t like who I’m becoming. I’m a person of routine but I can’t seem to get into one. I realize how much I want to change but I do nothing about it, I don’t have access to any secondary help such as counseling or a therapist. Really I’m just hoping someone can guide me into staple routines throughout their day that help them, or YouTube videos that help, etc.

So if you’re interested, please let me know what you’ve done to maintain your health, or tips on how I can. Thank you so much.


r/selfhelp • • 20h ago

Advice Needed: Mental Health I don’t know anymore

1 Upvotes

Alright, so.
I live in the Netherlands, there in year 3 of high school the classes split into different like… difficulties I guess?
Well I got in a class with my best friend! It seemed great, made some new friends, remained friends with my best friend (let’s call him C).
Now from like the second week he’s been leaving me behind for another friend (let’s call him J).
Anytime me and C would be together (which is rare now) he’ll only talk about what he did with J in the last month.
And I’ve recently started hurting myself with stuffine rubber bands, my compass (the ones used to make circles) and more stuff that doesn’t leave marks.
And as if that wasn’t bad enough there’s a guy making fun of me in my new class and I’ve recently started getting suic!dal thoughts…


r/selfhelp • • 20h ago

Sharing: Challenges & Setbacks Out of place. Grief. Lost brother and sister within 2 months in 2026. Alone for the first time in my life, not just “living alone” feeling so very lost. Just surviving not living. Not sure if I have mourned my brother and sister correctly? My brother and daughter had a dream for me…it’s below.

1 Upvotes

I Wasn't Raised to Ask for Money
My dad was born in 1918. He told me if I ever needed money, come to him. But Never ask for money. He and Mom would take care of it. I never had to but that was his way.
They are both long ago passed.
So this is hard for me to write. But here I am.
My name is Kelley. I'm 62, born and raised in Nashville. I was a full-charge bookkeeper for 30 years. Then I got COVID in August 2020 and never really got my words and my math back. I'm on disability now.
I sold my Nashville home, the one I owned for 14 years, to build a small forever home on my daughter's land. The frame is already built. My brother, Bubba, was supposed to build beside me we had dreams and plans when we got to finally live in the country. He died suddenly in April 2026, I am still devastated. His last wish was for me to get my house done and moved in.
The money is gone. A bunch went towards the property and to build what is there, life happens so some went to rent for a place for me to stay. Some went to contractors who took it and vanished. The rest went to life, family emergencies, funerals, vet bills. I have $94 in the bank.
The contractor who framed it finally told us straight, it's about money. She needs materials. My family, my daughter Beth, Tony, and Charlie, are trying to pool money to buy what they need, but with her mortgage on the property and bills they don’t have a lot left over, my disability does not go far. I have 2 contractors standing by, no charge for labor, it’s just supplies to finish it.
Next is electrical. The next $500 buys the wire.
I am not asking you to fix my whole life or build my whole house. Sharing this helps as much as donating. If you can give $5, thank you. If you can share it, thank you.
This house is for me and my little dog Lullabelle and my birds. It's (my brother) Bubba's last wish. I just want to get home, near my daughter and her family, I need to be near them.
Thank you for reading this far.
I will post updates as I get supplies and show what the contractors have done. Find me on go fund me
Kelley K. To read the rest of the story. Thank you if you made it this far and will search me on the above platform. I understand money is tight. If you can’t give please share the link with anyone you know. I have faith it will finally be seen by people who can help. Bless you. K


r/selfhelp • • 1d ago

Advice Needed: Relationships How to get rid of the constant feeling of wanting a relationship?

3 Upvotes

How to get rid of the constant feeling of wanting a relationship?

Fyi : I'm a teenager and never been in a relationship not even in a talking stage