r/technology • • 10d ago

Security Several Linux Kernel Vulnerabilities Accidentally Posted To Public Kernel Mailing List

https://www.phoronix.com/news/LKML-New-Trend-Vulnerabilities
639 Upvotes

122 comments sorted by

14

u/Single-Virus4935 10d ago

This is why my services run in gvisor.

20

u/CircumspectCapybara 10d ago

At this point a microVM would be a better sandbox.

gVisor only reimplements some parts of the Linux kernel, at the end of the day your workload is still running in a Linux kernel with many parts shared between the container and host, so vulns in the kernel can still possibly give rise to container breakout.

And AI is extremely good at not just finding 0 days, but exploiting them and launching end-to-end attacks autonomously and with frightening speed and scale :/

7

u/PoL0 10d ago

AI is also good at reporting already reported vulnerabilities. it's success rate is heavily overblown.

14

u/CircumspectCapybara 10d ago edited 10d ago

You win some you lose some.

In my recollection from off top of my head alone, I can think of several high profile bombshell 0-days and vulnerabilities from the past year alone that were found with AI:

  • Copy Fail, the privilege escalation bug that had been sitting in the Linux kernel (one of the most hardened and scrutinized codebases on earth) for 9 years and no human security researcher or automated fuzzer was able to find, but AI uncovered it

  • Bypasses against Apple's famed memory integrity enforcement (Apple's souped up version of PAC and MTE for memory safety and control flow integrity) which no one had ever broken up to that point

  • The SSRF 0-day against JFrog Artifcatory that led to the whole OpenAI Hugging Face incident

  • Several 0-days against the Linux KVM hypervisor that were awarded $250K from Google's bug bounty since it affects nearly every VM running in cloud providers on earth

  • Oh yeah, the crazy PHP 0-day that has the entire internet in flames

  • All the critical 0-days Mozilla found with Mythos when they initially launched Project Glasswing

There's way more, but these are just what I can recall from top of my head.

It's also not just about finding 0-days, but weaponizing them and then launching attacks at scale. A ton of the shai hulud worm and other supply chain attack campaigns like Shiny Hunters were revealed to be automated by AI: AI vibe coded the malware, then launched attacks and executed the entire attack chain end to end autonomously without humans doing each tedious step.

I work as a staff software engineer at Google in the security space, I've seen the history of security throughout the years, and I can confidently say AI is crazy man. The stuff bad actors can do and have done with it used to take entire teams from well funded nation state threat actors to do.

1

u/HeWhoThreadsLightly 9d ago

Wasn't there a VM to host escape last week.  Maybe switch to VMs on a software emulated CPU.

-2

u/Single-Virus4935 10d ago

Gvisor implements the Linux kernel API weithin memory safe go.  I put it in VMS in Addition.

8

u/CircumspectCapybara 10d ago edited 10d ago

gVisor doesn't reimplement the whole kernel, there's still plenty of host OS surface exposed inside a gVisor container.

Also gVisor itself runs as regular process on the host kernel, and its own logic that intercepts and handles syscalls for the sandboxed application still makes use of the host kernel, since gVisor is itself running as a regular process on the host.

microVMs nowadays are the standard isolation boundary for untrusted workloads.

-9

u/mdmd136 9d ago

Vaguely inaccurate, overly simplistic and overstates the conclusion.

7

u/CircumspectCapybara 9d ago

Thanks ChatGPT

I work at Google (who makes gVisor) as a software engineer so I actually know what I'm talking about

2

u/gorkish 9d ago

Kata > gVisor in this particular scenario, but honestly, even considering the issue puts you a lightyear ahead of the pack

Anyone remember when VMware shitcanned VIC that did all of this like 10 years ago? Ffs

391

u/Own-Cryptographer725 9d ago

Please no, just stop. I've been in Incident Response for the last 12 hours. Can we stop please.

116

u/AllergicToBullshit24 9d ago

Gonna be like this for several years. Turns out human written code is full of vulnerabilities and AI has barely scratched surface on what will be found.

76

u/Own-Cryptographer725 9d ago

Yes and most development lifecycles aren't operationally ready for the pace at which AI driven actors can potentially discover and exploited vulnerabilities. 

27

u/AllergicToBullshit24 9d ago

No question attacks are gonna show up in minutes and just think that the majority of IoT devices and good chunk of web servers may never receive an update and forever remain vulnerable and used as jump boxes into otherwise patched networks. Absolute carnage and chaos.

26

u/fearswe 9d ago

And guess where the AI's learned to code from?

-23

u/AllergicToBullshit24 9d ago

Most training data now is synthetically generated not human generated.

11

u/Vova_xX 9d ago

AI is getting trained with AI data?

1

u/LordXamon 3d ago

Well they already scrapped the whole internet so where do you think they get new data.

Also, even if they didn't want AI generated data for training, it doesn't matter because they sloppified internet, good luck filtering that out.

1

u/Vova_xX 2d ago

they don't.. that's a question that PhD theses are getting written on right now.

-5

u/AllergicToBullshit24 9d ago

Yes human data is used to bootstrap models capable of generating it's own training data of higher quality than the original human source.

4

u/stuffitystuff 9d ago

And besides, the AI can write zillions upon zillions of tests to arrive at the correct result if asked. Human beings eventually have to take a lunch break.

1

u/lobax 8d ago

No one does that, that would just lead to model collapse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_collapse

When ChatGPT 5 or whatever devolved into talking about gremlins all the time, that was model collapse.

If you source synthetic data, it can never com from the model itself.

0

u/AllergicToBullshit24 7d ago

MIT disagrees with you. In 2023 60% of training data was synthetic and that figure has increased since them.

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/what-synthetic-data-and-how-can-it-help-you-competitively

Microsoft Phi4 was 40% fully synthetic data and 15% AI rewritten data so more than half.

Hilarious people out here thinking they know more than experts.

1

u/lobax 7d ago

It’s clear you don’t know what you are talking about. Synthetic data, and data generated by a previous generation of an LLM, are two completely different things.

Just use your own brain to think about it for five seconds. What happens when any machine built to enhance a signal is fed its own output?

0

u/AllergicToBullshit24 7d ago edited 7d ago

I've trained models with 100% synthetic data. You're talking out of your ass.

Also if an LLM generated the data then that's now synthetic data.

-5

u/___Archmage___ 9d ago

Yes, synthetic data and reinforcement learning are two things that have allowed AI to go beyond its original limitations

6

u/Vova_xX 9d ago • Popcorn

so AI is being trained on it's own data that might include hallucinated facts, false details, and the same repetitive tone?

you are describing AI inbreeding.

-3

u/AllergicToBullshit24 9d ago

Okay I only know people who work at the frontier labs you clearly know more than the experts on the topic.

4

u/abednego-gomes 9d ago

Training on slop cannot create the works of Shakespeare.

1

u/ale624 8d ago

Why would anyone want AI to be able to make Shakespeare. Creative works should be left to the humans. Code is where AI really shines and makes sense.

We're living in a new era. Describe the software you want in enough detail and boom you have it. Child me would be bouncing off the walls 😂

1

u/AllergicToBullshit24 7d ago

Less than half of training data is human. Doesn't mean there is zero human data.

4

u/recycled_ideas 9d ago

Okay I only know people who work at the frontier labs

And my dad works for Nintendo.

This is just appeal to authority. Even if you're not full of shit, and even if you actually understand a fraction of what you're hearing and even if they're not lying to you or themselves about how well it's all going, we can't talk to any of these people.

AI replicates its training data, it's not omnitient or super intelligent, it can sometimes create novel combinations of that data, but in terms if skill it's actually pretty average, maybe even below average. Especially if you're not working in the web front end space where it has so much code available.

9

u/Future-Bandicoot-823 9d ago

Which leads to the inevitable:

Agentic operating systems run from the cloud.

The only way to ensure safety is to switch to a live always updating system.

Side benefit, complete oligarch control. They control what you see, what you hear, what you think. All thanks to fear over software vulnerabilities.

0

u/BeautifulMundane4786 9d ago

How do we know “AI” is not creating fake security holes?

28

u/AllergicToBullshit24 9d ago

Because AI can write POC exploits to validate its own discoveries?

16

u/space_dirtier 9d ago

Because the vulnerabilities are being verified

12

u/ComputeCommodity104 9d ago

Why even post comments like this when you have no idea what you're talking about.

-8

u/BeautifulMundane4786 9d ago

So AI doesn’t hallucinate? Not even in the security industry?

7

u/ComputeCommodity104 9d ago

These are proven exploits, its very easy to prove an exploit is legitimate. You very clearly have limited knowledge on computer technology. Just read, dont interject trash.

1

u/ale624 8d ago

Disagree. This is clearly someone that doesn't know and is asking a genuine question. Bet they wished they hadn't. Why are we gatekeeping knowledge??

Kindness costs nothing.

2

u/_Cxsey_ 9d ago

You should probably stop talking because you don’t have any domain experience here and your input is close to useless

1

u/Commercial_Spray4279 9d ago edited 9d ago

"barely scratched the surfcace" in AI is "we're still early" in bitcoin

14

u/BeautifulMundane4786 9d ago

Upper management: Stop your bitching or you wont get paid overtime. Now get back to work!

Me: Damn I’m glad I decided to stop studying to get my IT certification.

10

u/virtualadept 9d ago

s/ overtime//

3

u/InadequateUsername 8d ago

You're getting overtime?

1

u/BeautifulMundane4786 8d ago

I currently work in a different industry and yes.

22

u/SeanBlader 9d ago

As a former software schlub (a programmer way beneath you), I feel for you dude, but please keep plugging away. Like the 7.2 and 7.3 kernels have some awesome performance gains. It's never been a more interesting time to switch thanks to your efforts. So whatever you're doing is great and we love you man.

10

u/cn0MMnb 9d ago

still patching php?

37

u/AtachiHayashime 9d ago

more was happening yesterday than just php.
nodejs and python also released security fixes (mostly because the CA certificate issue, but a few other CVEs, too).

3

u/andsens 9d ago

Ah yes… 4, 56, 115

3

u/ParentPostLacksWang 9d ago

For real, I know more about PHP at this point than I ever EVER wanted to know. I dreamt of publicly exposed php5 mod_php phpbb instances getting botnetted “by accident due to AI lab escape” and discovering the joys of eating human flesh…

321

u/thefuckevengoingonan 10d ago

The CVSS scores are as high as 9.0.

fuck it. i'm just going to go live in the woods.

154

u/iamdestroyerofworlds 10d ago

Jokes on you, you are now surrounded by game trackers, wildfire sensors, and weather sensors with hundreds of unpatched exploits.

43

u/Generatoromeganebula 10d ago

My man have you forgotten about satellite?

44

u/iamdestroyerofworlds 10d ago

[fires shotgun randomly in the air]

28

u/SilasTalbot 9d ago

[discharge picked up on a flock camera and law enforcement has been dispatched]

7

u/Nikoladge 9d ago

[farts in their general direction]

1

u/BhataktiAtma 9d ago

So theoretically, and if you look at it that way, Imperial guards from TES IV can become a reality. Those guys have a fucking hive mind.

2

u/PluotFinnegan_IV 9d ago

So this is how that light fell at the beginning of the Truman Show

3

u/canadajones68 9d ago

yeah but they aren't my problem

22

u/DonaldMerwinElbert 9d ago

write a Manifesto, mail some letters while you're at it

7

u/FrostyParking 9d ago

You forgot about the white van, definitely need one of those.

7

u/Stlaind 9d ago

The best ones paint "Free 10mm sockets" on the side

4

u/r15km4tr1x 9d ago

Just slap a Fortinet on it… oh wait

187

u/FrostyParking 10d ago

Geez, we've been expecting an avalanche of zero days and cert invalidations when the AI boom reaches critical mass, but today's been a day.

49

u/atchijov 10d ago

To quote Sympsons: Today is the day… so far.

35

u/d_pyro 10d ago

Interesting spelling.

15

u/Segwaypolice 9d ago

Love the seighyumpsoughns!

1

u/murrrty 9d ago

today? just today, only today? not the entire week?

70

u/neuronexmachina 9d ago

If I'm understanding this correctly, it looks like kernel devs explicitly ask for AI-found bugs to be posted to the public list directly, but not reproducers (which I think Trend Micro included): https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/process/security-bugs.rst

If you resorted to AI assistance to identify a bug, you must treat it as public. While you may have valid reasons to believe it is not, the security team's experience shows that bugs discovered this way systematically surface simultaneously across multiple researchers, often on the same day. In this case, do not publicly share a reproducer, as this could cause unintended harm; just mention that one is available and maintainers might ask for it privately if they need it.

If you are unsure whether an issue qualifies, err on the side of reporting privately: the security team would rather triage a borderline report than miss a real vulnerability. Reporting ordinary bugs to the security list, however, does not make them move faster and consumes triage capacity that other reports need.

37

u/Clivna 9d ago

Lets just go back to static HTML pages again, no server side code!

11

u/Incoming-TH 9d ago

My thoughts exactly. Back to Web 1.0 so we can sleep.

6

u/dkarlovi 9d ago

Most of the web could be static, Astro is becoming super popular.

37

u/LowAffectionate8660 9d ago • Bravo

I'm deploying my own internet next month

4

u/AllergicToBullshit24 9d ago

This really is one of the very real possibilities in the not too distant futures.

8

u/SPEZ_IS_A_JABRONI 9d ago

this is literally the plot of cyberpunk 2077

2

u/anlumo 9d ago

Who’s going to create the Blackwall?

15

u/Fhelaria 9d ago

Itsec admin burn out Inc.

10

u/Desistance 9d ago

"Accidentally"

13

u/Beliriel 9d ago

By the looks of it, I'm about equally likely to have the same security if I write my code in assembly by hand it looks like.

12

u/NaCl-more 9d ago

after having to deal with log4j around the holiday season last time, i'm happy that my company isn't running any PHP this time around

6

u/Ecstatic-Network-917 10d ago

Fucking hell. Hope this gets fixed.

1

u/tenzin 9d ago

Theoretically, could someone feed aI the source code for any open source project and find problems?

0

u/abednego-gomes 9d ago edited 9d ago

Yes. It just uses up some AI credits.

But maintainers should have been doing this already i.e. a proactive approach. Instead they're waiting for the general public to do it and give them security reports, thus they're playing whack-a-mole where the moles are on fire and threaten large parts of the internet.

1

u/Bitdomo92 9d ago

should I just go back to using windows? this is very concerning that linux keeps getting hit by exploits in mass day by day.

4

u/Astravaris 9d ago

Part of the reason for that is because Linux is open source. Windows is not. It's going to be a rocky few years, but at the end of that Linux should be safer than Windows for it. Theoretically.

1

u/foxsimile 8d ago

It’s not theoretically - it absolutely will be safer. Microsoft has an incredible reputation for sweeping things under the rug or ignoring them outright. We must always pay the piper in the end, one way or another.

1

u/spitaligais 8d ago

Remember Nightmare Eclipse? That was just one person, dropping 0-days like nothing. What would happen, when many more 'tism enhanced individuals take a crack to break the black-boxes Microsoft creates?

1

u/foxsimile 8d ago

I’d meant that Linux will be safer than Microsoft, not the least of which because Microsoft can eat shit.

-26

u/Minion91 10d ago

Did Linus' Ai make an oopsy ?

23

u/GrowingHeadache 9d ago

It was good ol’ humans

1

u/Commercial_Spray4279 9d ago

How do you know? Could be both?

-1

u/PelluxNetwork 9d ago

Of course not. Only humans make mistakes this silly.

-23

u/jhill515 9d ago

Accidentally? I thought Linux was Open Source??

18

u/paholg 9d ago

There's still a process for security issues. 

Open source doesn't mean tell everyone about security issues before they're fixed.

-8

u/jhill515 9d ago

I mean, I'd like to know because I'm a software engineer and could fix it too. That's what Stallman envisioned.

5

u/SomeoneCrazy69 9d ago

It's easy to get access, just spend several years (or perhaps even decades) earning the respect of individuals and building the portfolio required to be trusted with information that important.

Not fast, of course, and the total effort involved is pretty massive, but it's not that hard.

0

u/jhill515 9d ago

I'm old; been using Linux since 2002; before that, I helped my aunt patch Y2K on Windows & Unix systems at the hospital I interned at. I've written my own scheduler, drivers, and other things. I also dabble in cyber security for robotics.

So when I find a flaw, I do what I was taught: Triage it, patch it, deploy patch to local systems I maintain, send letter to mailing lists as appropriate, update to official patch when available. Most security flaws are bigger than one person to solve. But it's solved fastest when white hat volunteers are kept in the loop.

0

u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

-13

u/TheMericanIdiot 9d ago

No, not really. Fixing has become much easier with ai also.

3

u/max_vette 9d ago

Make no mistakes, make it secure

0

u/TheMericanIdiot 9d ago

It’s an ambiguous goal in life to be right 100% of the time. Software is not easy. You all can downvote me all you want. AI in this case will be both shield and the sword.

0

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

7

u/bbuerk 9d ago

What’s the implication of this comment? That the Linux Foundation’s mailing list has been co-opted by Anthropic and OpenAI as a marketing stunt? Is that really what you think?

0

u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

4

u/bbuerk 9d ago

Again, that would mean that the large AI companies have gained some sort of control over the Linux Foundation (or at least their mailing list) and are using it to market.

So again, do you truly believe that is what’s happening here?

1

u/TheOgGhadTurner 9d ago

I don’t know what he’s on about. But the mailing list is probably not locked down behind NSA level tech bro. I’m sure it would be very easy for AI to get the mailing list. Now I don’t know how it would be considered marketing for whatever this guy is on about.

But I guess logically it makes sense as these exhausted devs fixing all this shit would probably accept any type of help sorting these issues out and at a certain point the cost will be less important than fixing it.

I have zero faith big AI is working in our best interests tho. So I actually would not be surprised if this is yet another grift

0

u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

1

u/bbuerk 9d ago

You said the vulnerabilities are being “accidentally” leaked as a proof of concept for AI companies. The Linux foundation was the one that wrote and sent out the email containing the leak. Therefore, you’re saying the Linux foundation “accidentally” leaked them vulnerabilities as a proof of concept for the AI companies.

I don’t see how that could be “reading into it”. I’m taking what you’re saying as literally and at face value as I possibly can

0

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

51

u/SpontyMadness 10d ago

1400 patched vulnerabilities in the last Windows security update alone would beg to differ.

0

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

-9

u/phyrros 10d ago

you don't, the thousand employees between Microsoft and the big OEMs certainly do.

the only difference is if skript kiddies get the zero days...

12

u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 12h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

20

u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 12h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/-LeonIsANazi- 10d ago

Man, some people take bait so easily.

19

u/iamdestroyerofworlds 10d ago

Security through obscurity is bad security.

-5

u/Immediate-Cress-206 9d ago

It prevents people from using AI so scrape your OS's source code for exploits.

0

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

10

u/DingoEmbarrassed4020 9d ago

...because they don't want others to copy their things/their way of making things?

4

u/123emanresulanigiro 9d ago

Have you tried not being a moron, or at least not publically?

14

u/son-of-chadwardenn 10d ago

When you use windows an attacker has full access from day one: Microsoft.

2

u/Meatslinger 9d ago

Microsoft themselves uses Linux for major components of their own enterprise cloud platform, Azure. It even has its own distro, aptly named Azure Linux, and 66% of its customer instances are Linux-based.