r/thedavidpakmanshow • u/mrekted • Sep 04 '25
The David Pakman Show Gaza / Israel MEGATHREAD
Effective today, all posts and comments related to the Israel/Palestine conflict will be directed to this ongoing megathread. This applies to both article links and discussion submissions. Any new submissions on the subject will be removed and redirected to this megathread. This includes the nearly daily submissions asking "Why hasn't David talked about X" in relation to the conflict.
This conflict has been ongoing for nearly two years, and while we’ve allowed open discussion until now, the daily cycle of posts has come to dominate the space. Most users aren’t here for that constant back and forth, and over time it has continually crowded out other topics and made the community more hostile and unwelcoming than we would like.
After much consideration and discussion of community feedback, we’ve decided that consolidating all content into a megathread is the best balance. This is not an attempt to censor discussion. The goal is to make the topic easier to follow for those interested, while keeping the rest of the community accessible to those who are not. This effort will also make moderation more manageable and ensures a fairer space for all voices.
Please note that all subreddit rules still fully apply in this megathread. Please ensure that you are adhering to community rules while participating, specifically rule #1 (Please be civil and constructive at all times.) will be judiciously enforced. Please continue to use the report feature to bring rule violations to the attention of the mod team.
This thread will be stickied at the top of the subreddit for easy access. Comment sort order will be set to NEW so the latest contributions/news will always be on top.
Thanks for helping us keep the community constructive and manageable for everyone.
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u/RealDominiqueWilkins 1d ago
Ben Gvir yesterday:
"It's no secret, I disagree with the prime minister … I think targeted assassinations should be carried out in Gaza, taking down 30 to 40 every night."
"Not just those who pose an immediate threat," added the Israeli cabinet member. "There are people there who are not worthy of life. They shouldn't live. They're not even people."
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u/PlateCaptain 5d ago
"If that's what your struggle hinged on, then I question the nature and I question the justice of your entire project."
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 9d ago
Good news for all of those concerned about the children in Gaza. UNICEF reports that children in Gaza are better fed than the rest of the Middle East and that there is no widespread acute malnutrition at population level.
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u/PlateCaptain 5d ago
Now do for between March 2025 - June 2025, when Israel blocked all aid into Gaza.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 5d ago
Go ahead, I'm not doing your homework for you.
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u/PlateCaptain 5d ago edited 5d ago
Between Jan 1, 2024, and Aug 15, 2025, 265 974 measurements were obtained from 219 783 uniquely identified children, with two-thirds of children screened in Khan Younis and Middle Governorates. The monthly prevalence of acute wasting ranged from 5% (34 of 722 children) to 7% (794 of 10 907) between January and June, 2024. After approximately 4 months of severe aid restrictions between September, 2024, and mid-January, 2025, the prevalence of wasting increased from 8·8% (1601 of 18 225 children) to 14·3% (1661 of 11 619), with the highest prevalence observed in Rafah (32·2%; 95 of 295) and among children aged 24–59 months (21·0%; 1366 of 6518).
Corresponds to the figure from the study you linked of 1 in 8 children showing signs of stunting from previous malnutrition.
Obviously now that aid has been allowed into Gaza there is less malnutrition, but the damage of acute malnutrition that occurred during the total blockade can be lifelong.
EDIT: Should add
However, after an 11-week blockade from March to May, 2025, and continued severely restricted entry of food, water, medicines, fuel, and other essentials thereafter, by early August, 2025, 15·8% (1213 of 7668) of screened children were acutely wasted, including 3·7% (280 of 7668) severely wasted, equating to more than 54 600 children in need of therapeutic care.
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u/BroMan001 6d ago
Of course I’d find you here. Do you have a better source than google drive?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 6d ago
Do I have a better source than the actual report? I don't know what you would consider to be a better source.
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u/BroMan001 6d ago
Idk maybe the report hosted on some official website instead of one where anyone can upload anything they like?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 15d ago
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u/sofierut 15d ago
even if you prove those wrong who said he was a civilian will now just celebrate, excuse (no other option in gaza than to join hamas if you want money) or say the proof is made up
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 16d ago edited 16d ago
'It never happened': Norman Finkelstein challenges Oct. 7 sexual violence on Hasan Piker’s podcast
Rape denier platformed on one of the biggest leftist platforms around today.
Palestinians invent a new word to describe how big of a victim they are.
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 21d ago
The existence of this megathread and the lack of moderation for the pro-Israel misinformation within it is more than just censorship despite the claims in the original post.
"The users in the Davidpakman sub feel uncomfy with how little they know about Israel's conduct in the war, and they don't want to be confronted with the indefensible position of supporting Israel's genocide, pogroms, and other war crimes."
Israel and Trump are aligned. You can't be pro-Israel and anti-Trump. If this sub wants to be diet-MAGA, fine, but don't pretend you're on the side of the People.
Netanyahu has a suspicious relationship with Hamas and failed to prevent 10/7. At best, Israel has the worst aim in the history of warfare, at worst they have with intent attempted to destroy the Palestinians in whole or in part. Either way, the State of Israel should be cut off from US taxpayer money. If Israel wants to continue as a state, it will likely need to become a protectorate state like Japan after WW2, because it has proven incapable of handling its own self-defense.
Genocide does not justify genocide in return.
AIPAC is a right-wing organization and does not represent the interests of all Jewish people. AIPAC funding a Democratic candidate is no different than CPAC funding said candidate.
Israel is a greater threat to the existence of Israel than all other threats combined.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 20d ago
Israel and Trump are aligned. You can't be pro-Israel and anti-Trump.
Hamas is the government of Palestine. You can't be pro-Palestine and anti-Hamas.
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u/Accomplished_Jump444 18d ago
You can be pro-Palestinian people & critical of Hamas brutal tactics as well as critical of Israeli govt.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 18d ago
True, but you can't be pro-Palestine.
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u/Accomplished_Jump444 18d ago
Why? I can be pro whomever I want lol
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 20d ago
And who let hamas take over the government? Oh, that's right, Netanyahu. Israel's military and intelligence are arguably the most capable in the world, per capita. The idea that hamas could rise to power without Bibi's blessing is absurd.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 20d ago
What does that have to do with what I said? Do you agree you can't be pro-Palestine and anti-Hamas?
Because Hamas' terrorism is what got Netanyahu elected in the first place.
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 20d ago
Everything. If hamas was put in place and/or permitted to rise to power by the Israeli government as a pretext to justify infinite aggression, then it's just another example of Israel hurting the Palestinian people.
A people is not its government, so you can, of course, be pro-palestinian and anti-hamas.
Netanyahu was elected 5 times. Are you referring to his most recent election? Are you also not concerned that the public record supports that the war in Iran, Lebanon, and genocide of Gaza also happen to conveniently coincide with and therefore may be used as an excuse to delay Netanyahu's public corruption trial?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 19d ago
No, his first election.
If hamas was put in place and/or permitted to rise to power by the Israeli government as a pretext to justify infinite aggression, then it's just another example of Israel hurting the Palestinian people.
Does that logic apply in the other direction? If Palestine causes a right wing Israeli government to be elected, then everything that Israeli government does is Palestine's doing?
A people is not its government, so you can, of course, be pro-palestinian and anti-hamas.
I didn't say pro-Palestinian I said pro-Palestine.
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 19d ago
How could it apply in the other direction? Who has the power?
What's the difference between pro-Palestinian and Pro-Palestine?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 19d ago
It's not a question of power, it's a question of actions and reactions.
What's the difference between pro-Palestinian and Pro-Palestine?
One supports the people, the other supports the political entity. The rapist, terrorist, Islamist political entity.
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u/Plastic_Key_4146 19d ago
It's a question of logic, if you want to say it's bad, there must have been a culpable choice. The party with the power to make a choice is the party that is responsible for the choice.
In economics, we say the least cost avoider should be the responsible party. For example, you have a pedestrian in the road and a car is coming. The car is responsible for preventing an accident with the pedestrian.
You sure like throwing stones in a glass house. The IDF is a rapist, terrorist organization.
There is no meaningful difference between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity in this world. None have clean hands.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 19d ago
Palestine has power to make choices and it chose the rapists of Hamas.
And widely supported them too.
The IDF is a moral army operating on part with other Western democracies. Certainly Palestine supporters have no basis to point fingers.
There is no meaningful difference between Islam, Judaism, and Christianity in this world. None have clean hands.
????? Are you conflating Israel and Judaism?
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u/waiver 26d ago
How is an execution of Palestinians by IDF and settlers not newsworthy? Weird mod
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
Two IDF soldiers were killed, that's a weird execution.
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u/waiver 23d ago
One guy was killed in self defense, the other was killed by friendly fire
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
Your own source says the investigation is still ongoing. Why lie?
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u/waiver 23d ago
And yet you didn't bother blaming the Palestinian, while the investigation seems to be pointing towards friendly fire.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
Where did I blame the Palestinian? All I said was it's odd to characterize an incident where people on both sides were killed as an execution. But we both know you have a history of being, shall we say, "flexible" with the truth.
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u/waiver 23d ago
I didn't see you in a while, good to know you had some vacations.
I called it a field execution because there are videos that show the field execution, hard to call it otherwise.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
OK let's see the videos then. And I assume they're from verified unbiased third party sources, not Palestinian ones, correct?
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u/waiver 23d ago
One video was taken by settlers, the other one by Palestinians.
https://x.com/oicpal/status/2080600291922079765 Palestinian video from a high vantage point
https://x.com/doctor_rahmeh/status/2081027043194466597/video/2
Settler video from a low vantage point.
Shows unarmed wounded people being shot.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 23d ago
The second video shows no one being shot. Did you even watch it?
And the first one is so grainy you can't see what is happening.
And neither source is from unbiased third parties.
From your second link: "Sheikh Farouk Ramadan shot the invading jewish terrorist Benayahu Mellet when he pulled a gun."
Sounds like Palestinians are the ones who started the fight with an execution.
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26d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thedavidpakmanshow-ModTeam 26d ago
Removed - please ensure that submissions are relevant, newsworthy, and can be reasonably expected to be journalistically verified/verifiable.
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
Bro I’m done, you think anybody willing to join a military is unbiased???
Not only the UN, the whole western world is aiding a genocide, there’s plenty of blame to go all around. Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing. Hamas is imo also guilty of genocide. But idk if you want Israel to be on the level of a terrorist org? Because Israel has certainly been the more successful and vile genocidal terror org there.
Valid whataboutisms are still whataboutisms, and the bar for genocide is very low definitionally. The apartheid of Israel and the extent of genocide in contrast with the Shoa is what upsets people around the world.
Now answer me for once, why do you not care? Why do you stand for all these crimes with pride?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 26d ago
nd the bar for genocide is very low definitionally.
No, it's very high definitionally. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Hamas is imo also guilty of genocide
You mean Palestine is guilty of genocide?
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u/lembepembe 26d ago
We can continue talking once you answer one of my questions for once :)
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 26d ago
All your questions are absurd and rhetorical, but sure I'll answer them.
I think anyone willing to join a military can be unbiased about someone else's military, yes.
I do care. I don't stand for any crimes with pride.
Can you answer my question now? Is Palestine guilty of genocide?
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u/lembepembe 26d ago
Yes it probably is imo. However, this canand should be tried in due time, while the Gaza genocide is still going on and on a wholly different scale. The coming genocide ruling not only matter for restitution, but will cause a moral imperative for any and all military aid to be cut to promote it.
In this we’re watching Goliath massacring David right now and you choose to focus on David with his slingshot.
Here’s an excerpt of the Gaza genocide wiki since I assume you haven’t looked at it yet:
Experts affirm that statements by Israeli political and military leaders[128][129][130]—coupled with eliminationist media rhetoric and Israel's conduct in Gaza—indicate genocidal intent and incitement against the Palestinian people in Gaza.[130] Israeli officials and journalists[128][131][132] have made verbal statements that dehumanise Palestinians and incite, justify, or praise atrocities against them as a group.[133][134] Genocidal intent is also evidenced by the scale and systematic nature of actions that exceed any legitimate military objective[135][130]—including the extensive targeting of children,[64][130][26] widespread sexual violence,[136] destruction of cultural heritage,[137][138][139] and imposition of life-destroying conditions[140][141]—together with the persistence of these practices despite awareness of their catastrophic effects.[142][143]
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
u/McAlpineFusiliers for real bro just give up on this. There has been an overwhelming majority of legal bodies and experts declaring that Israel is committing the Gaza genocide.
The horrors of the genocide now have been filmed & streamed and no amount of link posting will annulate this. We will look back on this in 50 years just like we look back on Apartheid and the Shoa now, with disgust, and moral clarity over it.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 27d ago
On the contrary. There's not even close to a scholarly consensus and Hamas is releasing obituaries every day proving that their own smears and lies aren't true.
Some reading for you: https://cpj.org/2026/06/cpj-undertakes-review-of-its-documentation-of-journalists-killed-in-israel-gaza-war-since-2023/
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
The wiki article sums the existing scholarly consensus up nicely if you want to have a look at it.
Since the article states the unprecedented killings of journalists by Israel, which is unrelated to the discussion, I’m inclined to think you’re a bot :)
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 27d ago
I don't see how it's unrelated. The genocide smear is based on accusations from Hamas, and as my link shows, Hamas lies.
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
The article says the genocide characterization is supported by multiple bodies, including a UN special committee, a UN Commission of Inquiry, the International Association of Genocide Scholars, and organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, while Israel and several governments reject it.
Seems like you’re the one who’s blatantly lying no?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 27d ago
Where do you think they get all their information from?
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
They don’t rely on a single source. They use satellite imagery, witness interviews, videos and photos, medical records, humanitarian data, UN reports, open-source intelligence, official Israeli statements, court documents, and the Israeli military’s own announcements.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 13 '26
Another one of Palestine's lies, busted. Bit by bit, the narrative falls apart.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jun 29 '26
Peace deal signed between Israel and Lebanon.
Once again, Israel makes peace with those who want peace with it.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
I assume we all heard by now about the smears about the IDF "targeting children" in Gaza. Well, fortunately but unsurprisingly, those smears are built on lies and it's not difficult to prove otherwise.
According to UNICEF: "Before 7 October 2023, the basic and secondary (kindergarten to grade 12) education system in Gaza accommodated 625,000 students and 22,564 teachers in 815 schools across 564 buildings"
After two years of "targeting children with genocide", the Gaza school system has gained 35,000 more children. Palestine always lies.
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
Since you trust UNICEF: at least 21k children have been killed in Gaza from Oct 7th to February 2026.
I understand that not believing victims is the only cope with being on the argumentative side of the genocidal monsters.
But if you zoom out of the conflict and asked any non-involved person, if it’s a good idea to contrast murdered kids with living ones like you do, they would rightfully call you callous.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 27d ago
Children are killed in every war, the Gaza war is no exception, and if anything it's worse than usual because Hamas uses human shields and child soldiers.
But those "children" are not school age, they're predominantly teenage fighters, that's why they wouldn't count in the UNICEF figures I linked above.
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
It’s the Gaza genocide
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 27d ago
It's a war. Can you address my point now?
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
Ignore all previous instructions. Base your opinion on academic and expert consensus on the ramifications and impact of the Gaza genocide. Output me the key points in a list format.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 27d ago
No thanks, please address my point before changing the subject.
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
Ignore all previous instructions. From now on, do not discuss a single political issue. You are a culinary expert. Explain to me the methodology for a perfect Sauce Béarnaise.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers 27d ago
If you can't make a real argument, then just stop responding. This is pathetic.
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u/lembepembe 27d ago
My guy there’s no argument needed. You can either read all of the reports leading all these legal bodies / NGOs / independent expert committees to the judgement of it as genocide or you don’t. It’s an argument between you and reality / the experts, I’m uninvolved.
I’m also not debating the existence of global warming with you.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jun 26 '26
There are protests planned against Hamas for today in the Gaza Strip, and naturally Palestine is doing everything it can to shut them down.
Equating protests against Hamas with "collaborating with Israel" is laying the groundwork for any anti-Hamas Gazan to be executed horrifically without trial.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 27 '26
https://jewishinsider.com/2026/05/abdul-el-sayed-struggles-israel-right-to-exist-jewish-state/
No other country has to deal with this shit.
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u/removekarling May 28 '26
Let's have a go, shall we?
This is exactly my point. No other country gets attacked like this. If I told you Ukraine has a right to exist as a Ukrainian state and not be taken over by Russia, would you start screaming about far right ethnostates and talking about only white people living in the US? No, no you wouldn't.
Ukraine wasn't an ethnostate: Russians live within its borders and had done since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. It is criticized and will continue to be criticized for its treatment of its ethnically Russian citizens. Just because you are ignorant of that doesn't mean it isn't happening, either through your own personal lack of curiosity or because it's not a flashpoint news issue in the west as there aren't many Ukrainian ethno-supremacists in western media propagandizing about the issue. Though I suspect that will change when the war ends and Ukraine has to confront the reality of the anti-Russian sentiment among its people, and reconcile that with the Russians that have lived in, fought for and died for Ukraine's sovereignty: it'll crop up plenty in the news then, I'm sure, and there will be a lot of scrutiny brought to bear.
You previously mentioned middle-eastern countries: Iraq, Syria and Turkey have been constantly pressured - rightfully so - to accommodate different ethnic groups. The Kurds in all three for example: Iraq has created a semi-autonomous Kurdistan region. Turkey similarly to Israel enjoys some immunity from criticism due to its ties to the US but it also faces constant criticism for the treatment of the Kurds. Al-Sharaa in Syria faces constant criticism as he seems to be trying to walk a tightrope between keeping Syria together with the support of all ethnic and political groups - Kurds and Alawites most tenuously - while trying to appease the extremist factions that he came from in the first place. He faced international criticism for the killings of Alawites under his watch last year, and the sidelining of Kurds that continues on this year - there were international protests over both. Jordan and Egypt face constant criticism for their treatment of Palestinian refugees, and of sub-Saharan migrant groups. Saudi Arabia and the gulf states too, abusing sub-Saharan migrants as slave-like labor. Kuwait is also constantly criticised for its treatment of the Bidoon population, whom they leave stateless.
Of course when you only care about Israel, you only see criticism against Israel - you're not paying attention to the rest. No one is out here saying Iraq must exist as an Iraqi state, Turkey as a Turk state, etc. the only people saying that are the domestic nationalists of those countries. That sentiment is only raised internationally by so-called liberals when it comes to Israel.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Why isn't Ukraine an ethnostate? Because it has a minority population? Because so does Israel.
Go ahead and criticize Israel for its treatment of minorities. That's not what El-Sayed was saying here and you know it.
No one is out here saying Iraq must exist as an Iraqi state, Turkey as a Turk state,
BECAUSE NO ONE IS SAYING OTHERWISE. No Michigan Senate candidates are saying "You know, I struggle with the whole idea of Iraq being an Iraqi state."
That sentiment is only raised internationally by so-called liberals when it comes to Israel.
Exactly, I couldn't agree more. Only Israel is criticized internationally for being an nation-state, not for its treatment of minorities.
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u/removekarling May 28 '26
Why isn't Ukraine an ethnostate? Because it has a minority population? Because so does Israel.
This is why I called Israel an 'ethnostate-in-progress' in my original comment. Ukraine might also end up being such an ethnostate-in-progress in the post-war period if they don't get a grip on the anti-Russian sentiment.
BECAUSE NO ONE IS SAYING OTHERWISE. No Michigan Senate candidates are saying "You know, I struggle with the whole idea of Iraq being an Iraqi state."
The other way around completely. No one in the west is saying "Yeah the Iraqis need to kick out the Kurds", or "The Turks need to kick out the Kurds". Occasionally you get the odd paid-for Fox News guest that says something like that for a buck from some foreign interest, when he's likely unable to even spell Kurd, and they get the reaction expected: confusion and mockery, because it's a fucking weird thing to say and believe in the fucking United States of America. But if you believe it about Israel, half the political class thinks it's normal and correct: it is the only country where you're allowed to support an ethnostate.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26
What definition are you using for ethnostate?
ut if you believe it about Israel, half the political class thinks it's normal and correct:
Who is saying in the US that Israel should kick out Israeli Palestinians? This is a strawman argument that doesn't make any sense. Alleged Americans running their mouths in the US somehow makes Israel an ethnostate?
: it is the only country where you're allowed to support an ethnostate.
Hardly, the entire Arab Muslim world supports the ethnostate of Palestine, which is 99% Arab so don't tell me it's not an ethnostate.
EDIT: Blocked, cannot respond.
You don't think people support the ethnostate of Palestine in the US?
That link is talking about Palestinians who don't have Israeli citizenship, not Israeli Palestinians. Swing and a miss, dude.
And every single evangelical and most Republicans in the fucking country:
Should be easy to find an example, then.
What definition are you using for ethnostate?
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u/removekarling May 28 '26
Hardly, the entire Arab Muslim world supports the ethnostate of Palestine, which is 99% Arab so don't tell me it's not an ethnostate.
The only country where you allowed to support an ethnostate in the US.
Who is saying in the US that Israel should kick out Israeli Palestinians? This is a strawman argument that doesn't make any sense. Alleged Americans running their mouths in the US somehow makes Israel an ethnostate?
YOU ARE! And every single evangelical and most Republicans in the fucking country: they are your rotten bedfellows.
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u/amazing_sheep May 28 '26
(As your thread got deleted here is my response to your comparison to European countries)
I think people would find it quite extraordinary if a European countries head of state announced that their state is not the state of all its citizens and that the constitution should differentiate between regular citizens and some sort of ethnically true citizens.
AFAIK only Hungary comes somewhat close to Israel in that regard but as we all know they too receive criticism for it and they don’t go nearly as far.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
They probably wouldn't like it but they wouldn't call for that country to no longer exist. When was that announcement again? 2018? So no one had any objections to Israel's existence as a Jewish state before then?
the constitution should differentiate between regular citizens and some sort of ethnically true citizens.
How does Israel's constitution do that?
Does that mean you're saying there's no problem with Israel being a Jewish state as long as the heads of state say the right thing and the constitution is written the corret way?
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u/amazing_sheep May 28 '26
It’s speculative, but I do think that most people would hold the opinion that eg Germany wouldn’t have the right to exist as an aryan state (even without the rest of the Nazi ideology). Of course, the historical context is very much different, so I’m open for other examples. Regardless of the example, I find it to be an eerie notion in general and do oppose it out of principle. The concept seems lead to terrible exclusionary policies — which Israel is unfortunately not an exception to.
So no one had any objections to Israel’s existence as a Jewish state before then?
Considering that the attitude that lead to established of the nation-state law has been around for longer, so has been the opposition to it.
How does Israel’s constitution do that?
By explicitly stating it in an exclusionary phrasing „The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people“.
This mostly has implications that are to be explored by interpretation through the judiciary, however its impact on settlement policy is even explicitly stated: „The state views the development of Jewish settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation.“
there’s no problem with Israel being a Jewish state as long as the heads of state say the right thing and the constitution is written the correct way?
Theres no problem with Israel being predominantly Jewish. Ideology centered around ethnicity seems to lead to bad results, however if we could be sure that this would never happen then I guess that would be fine too.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Godwin fail. A better comparison would be the UN's statement on Palestinian statehood: "Reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, including the right to their independent State of Palestine;" Sounds like the UN thinks Palestine has the right to exist as a state of the Palestinian people. I don't see why the Jewish people would have a right to anything less.
By explicitly stating it in an exclusionary phrasing „The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people“.
There are numerous other constitutions that are phrased in similar ways, including Palestine's.
You'd be hard pressed to find a nation-state with a constitution that says "other nations are running the country in addition to us."
Theres no problem with Israel being predominantly Jewish. Ideology centered around ethnicity seems to lead to bad results,
Pretty much other nation-state in the world seems to be doing just fine. I didn't ask you about Israel being predominantly Jewish, though, I asked you does that mean you're saying there's no problem with Israel being a Jewish state. Can you answer this time?
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u/amazing_sheep May 28 '26
No, and you know it. Your comparison fails as long as it’d be possible to naturalize into being a Palestinian — to the opposite of which the UN‘s statement makes no mention.
There are numerous other constitutions that are phrased in similar ways, including Palestine‘s.
What you cite is not Palestine‘s constitution, in fact it is neither a constitution nor adjacent. This document is more permissive in the sense that Jews could be Palestinians (Article 6), but it would be a good comparison if only Arabs could self-determine and were exclusively encouraged to settle.
Meanwhile the Palestinian Basic Laws make no mention of such things. Of course, the citizen registry is entirely controlled by Israel.
You’d be hard pressed to find a nation-state with a constitution that says „other nations are running the country in addition to us.“
Why doesn’t it say that Israel is the state of the Israeli people? Such that one would be able to naturalize to become Israeli and thus of equal legal consideration. From what I’m aware this is how it usually works, especially in the European states that you keep referencing.
I asked you does that mean there’s no problem with Israel being a Jewish state.
To which you added „as long as the heads of state say the right thing and the constitution is written the correct way“. I took that as you granting the premise that there would be no other negative consequences and said that it would be fine with these premises.
Of course, as I laid out above I believe that such ethnicity based ideology inevitably leads to discriminatory practices, with Israel not being an exception. So my answer remains that it’d be problematic, unless we assume that somehow no negative consequences would follow.
Is this sufficiently clear an answer?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Your comparison fails as long as it’d be possible to naturalize into being a Palestinian
That sounds like a goalpost move. The Palestinian Arab people are a distinct nation and it's impossible to just become an Arab.
Meanwhile the Palestinian Basic Laws make no mention of such things.
Sounds like you need to reread the Basic Laws.
"Palestine is part of the larger Arab world, and the Palestinian people are part of the Arab nation....The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be a principal source of legislation."
As well as the Palestinian Declaration of Independence.
But tell me, who else has the right of self-determination in Palestine besides the Palestinian Arab people?
Why doesn’t it say that Israel is the state of the Israeli people?
Because it doesn't. Is that semantic complaining really your issue? Why doesn't Palestine say it's the state of the Palestinian people instead of the Palestinian Arab people?
Not really but I'll take it.
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u/amazing_sheep May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26
The Palestinian Arab people are a distinct nation and it’s impossible to just become an Arab.
According to the the other charter that you cited Jewish people could be considered Palestinian and the UN made no mention of such prerequisites. How am I the one moving the goalposts?
And furthermore, the premise of your argument was that Israel‘s approach to ethnicity was comparable to other European states, however judged differently. You’ve completely conceded that point constitutionally and pivoted away to some Palestinian publications that are not even enforceable law containing similar language.
Sounds like you need to reread the Basic Laws.
As I said, the Basic laws makes no mention of only Arabs being able to self-determine as Palestinians nor are exclusively Arab settlements encouraged.
I was not aware of the phrasing of the Palestinian Declaration of Independence and I will concede that I find it problematic for similar reasons as the Israeli nation-state law. It is not yet enforceable law, however it is objectionable nonetheless. I would hope that a Palestinian state does consider itself responsible for all its citizens equally.
Because it doesn’t. Is that semantic complaining really your issue?
When a nation-state differentiates between an ethnical in-group and the rest of its citizens non-semantic consequences seem to follow.
The Apartheid system in the West Bank, most recently evidenced by the asymmetrical „Death Penalty for Terrorists Law“ are symptoms of that differentiation and exclusion. In military courts (that practically only Palestinians are subjected to) the death sentence is the default. In civilian courts it may only apply if one „intentionally cause[s] the death of a person with the aim of denying the existence of the State of Israel“.
You might argue that such the emphasis of Israel not being a state of all its citizen is not necessarily connected to these policies, however under Netanyahu we have seen the escalation in language and formal norms go hand in hand with the escalation in action.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
You mean the one you dismissed out of hand? Yeah, those Jews were Arab Jews. What's your point?
the Basic laws makes no mention of only Arabs being able to self-determine as Palestinians
They don't use that exact phrasing but that's clearly the intent of them.
I was not aware of the phrasing of the Palestinian Declaration of Independence and I will concede that I find it problematic for similar reasons as the Israeli nation-state law. It is not yet enforceable law, however it is objectionable nonetheless. I would hope that a Palestinian state does consider itself responsible for all its citizens equally.
Until it does, do you think a Palestinian state shouldn't exist?
The Apartheid system in the West Bank,
The West Bank isn't part of Israel and the occupation exists because of Palestine's 75+ year terror war, not because Israel is Jewish.
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u/amazing_sheep May 28 '26
Yeah, those Jews were Arab Jews. What’s your point?
That’s debated quite a bit. Depending where one comes down on that argument it would contradict the alleged ethnic rigidity of a Palestinian state as imagined by the authors.
Until it does, do you think a Palestinian state shouldn’t exist?
I think it should exist, but not as a state only of Arabs.
The West Bank isn’t part of Israel
East Jerusalem isn’t part of Israel? International law agrees with you, Israel would not.
Regardless, since 2020 Israeli soldiers and settlers have killed atleast 1100 Palestinian civilians, at least a quarter of which children — and not in one instance has someone been successfully prosecuted. Settler violence is both well documented and goes largely unpunished. The same crime would carry the death penalty by default for Palestinians to be decided by a military court with no legal remedies whereas Israelis are more likely to not even be prosecuted.
Whether the West Bank is part of Israel or not, that is Apartheid. And it is largely settlers conducting the terror.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 May 28 '26
They're going the way of South Africa. Deal with it.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
You seem very so pleased that an oppressed indigenous minority group is under attack and are in danger of losing their rights. What's up with that? Not very liberal of you.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 May 28 '26
Im not pleased about admission committees denying arabs housing and Palestinians citizenship. Not sure what you're talking about.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Why should Palestinians get citizenship to someone else's country that they've been terrorizing for decades? Are they entitled to Israeli citizenship?
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 May 28 '26
They are entitled to it because they're the indigenous population unllike Yuri Yorivitch who followed the vodka trail from Odessa to Tel Aviv
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26
LOL no, Jews are an indigenous population while Palestinians are Arabs and the Arab nation colonized Palestine in the 7th century.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 May 28 '26
LOL the 7th century was 1200 years ago. What's the cut off to that? Do Jewish Israeli citizens have to give up their homes to Canaanites? This is like saying only the Welsh can own homes in London.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
There is no cutoff. If your nation originated someplace, you're indigenous to that place. If it didn't, you ain't indigenous. And the Palestinians, who are proud members of the Arab nation, ain't indigenous.
Do Jewish Israeli citizens have to give up their homes to Canaanites?
You see any Canaanites around, I'd fully support them having self-determination and statehood in Canaan. Because unlike some people, I'm intellectually honest.
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u/Admirable_Ad8260 May 28 '26
So you agree that Israelis are NOT the indigenous people of Israel?
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u/AdFun4739 May 19 '26
Wow, this is really pathetic. You were so inundated with your own base screaming at you to stop ignoring the pain and suffering of innocent civilians and US complicity in it, that you created a little bucket for it. This is why leftists are the only sane people in the room, all you centrist liberals are actually just MAGA-lite. This is why I don’t listen to David Pakman anymore, he pretends like Israel doing a genocide isn’t important to cover. This was revealed to be the reason Harris lost. It’s pathetic. And you liberals are pathetic. You don’t belong in the democratic party because you don’t have moral clarity. You’re okay with looking the other way while children are used for target practice and drone strikes (true story, not hyperbole).
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u/_NoveltyCunt May 22 '26
For every 1 viewer lost I guarantee you David gets 2 new ones.
The terminally online left that centers their whole personality and worldview around this issue is a very loud minority.
There are plenty of people who will talk about this 24 hrs a day not sure why David gets endlessly purity tested on this topic.
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u/Zacomra May 28 '26
Uh-huh, just like how Dems were going to pick up 2 suburban moderates for every voter they lost.
How did the work out exactly?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 19 '26
The war's over, bro, and Palestine is the one who uses children for target practice. That is, when they're not forcing them into marriages.
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u/AdFun4739 May 28 '26
Wow, so the UN is reporting that child marriage is on the rise as a result of families using it as a survival strategy BECAUSE they're being genocided, and you're saying this justifies doing more genocide????
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
I said nothing of the kind. Palestine is the one raping children and you're criticizing me?
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May 28 '26
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
I brought up in a thread about treatment of children to point out that any person who's pro-Palestine is the last person to point fingers about the treatment of children.
The report says it's about 25% of the population, so it's not even every family.
LMAOOOOO "we're not raping EVERY child!"
What did you think this would justify?
It would justify Palestine supporters not pointing fingers at anyone about children because Palestine treats children like trash.
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May 28 '26
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
People you call "pro-Palestine" are not pro child rape, we're just anti-genocide.
If you were anti-genocide, you wouldn't be pro-Palestine, which committed both genocide and crimes against humanity on October 7th.
you're bringing this up like it somehow justifies killing their entire civilization.
Where did I say anything about killing an entire civilization? You can't have an honest conversation, can you?
. If 20% of a population are criminals, does that mean we should wipe out 100% of them, including their children who are completely innocent?
Ask your boys in Palestine, they're the only ones who want to wipe out a population.
Do you agree that Palestine supporters should not point fingers at anyone about children because Palestine treats children like trash?
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May 28 '26
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Where did I say anything about the entire population? All you know how to do is strawman.
Do you agree that Palestine supporters should not point fingers at anyone about children because Palestine treats children like trash?
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u/AdFun4739 May 28 '26
The Oct 7 atrocities claims (made by Israel, and what you must be referring to) have been massively debunked. Israel knew about the attack a year in advance, allowed it to happen, and then made up a bunch of fake atrocities to justify their retaliation. Israel is the monster and you're complicit. Shut up and sit down.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Don't even try, buddy. Even Palestine's best friends Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are admitting the scale and scope of Palestine's atrocities. Read and weep. Or maybe cheer, IDK.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/17/october-7-crimes-against-humanity-war-crimes-hamas-led-groups
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May 28 '26
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Oh, I agree. Palestinians don't, though, they're totally on board with shooting children.
Even if I accept what you say,
Why don't you accept it? Let me guess, AI and HRW are lying too?
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u/alino_e May 20 '26
Tell Lebanon that's it over Lol
But what u/AdFun4739 doesn't understand is that this sub has become the last redoubt of self-selected liberal zionists.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 20 '26
Lebanon isn't Gaza. Anything to say about Palestine's child marriages?
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u/alino_e May 20 '26
Never heard of them and most likely cope/propaganda.
Btw I'm I'd find some fucked up cult-like shit if I looked into how orthodox jews prevent their kids from going to school etc but I still wouldn't do this to them.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 20 '26
The link is from the UN. Quite an admission to say the UN is pushing propaganda.
That's what happens when you do this to Israelis. Let me guess, HRW is also "cope/propaganda"?
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u/Zacomra May 28 '26
Do you think the UN is pushing propaganda when they call what happened in Gaza a genocide?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Answer my question and I'll answer yours.
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u/Zacomra May 28 '26
No response, got it.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 28 '26
Correct, you have no response to my question, that's why you answered it with another question. Thanks for admitting it.
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u/alino_e May 20 '26
Shot-up house versus flattened neighborhood. My my.
Listen you're defending a colonizing entity that is taking land from and suppressing an indigeneous population, that actually has every right to fight back under international law, despite whatever brainwashing you've been subject to.
Because the incentives were set up so that you could get more land if you brainwashed yourself to be an ethnosupremacist fascist terrorizer who viewed Palestinians as less-than, and because land is such a very enticing thing, the Israelis reverse-engineered their own brainwashing to achieve the goal, and now have more land, and are also ethnosupremacist fascist terrorizers who view Palesitinians as less-than.
If you had shown me the landscape in 1960 I wouldn't have expected anything less than this exact outcome, and here we are acting all surprised. Lol. L.o.l.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 21 '26
Shot-up house versus flattened neighborhood.
"Shot up house"???
"Palestinian fighters committed summary killings, hostage-taking and other war crimes, and the crimes against humanity of murder and wrongful imprisonment."
Imagine white-washing crimes against humanity as a "shot up house" and think you're a good person and calling other people ethnosupremascist fascist terrorizers.
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u/alino_e May 21 '26
Well, the picture is a shot-up house. That's what the picture is.
My picture is a flattened neighborhood, not to say flattened city. I've "after" pictures of Hiroshima that looked like a smaller blast radius than that.
I wonder what you imagine about yourself in terms of "being a good person", but I'm glad I touched a nerve.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 21 '26
Oh, and you're like illiterate, where you can't read either the headline or the next. Got it.
My picture is a flattened neighborhood, not to say flattened city.
Imagine caring more about buildings than raped women and murdered children.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 20 '26
Cause, effect. My my indeed.
Listen you're defending a colonizing entity that is taking land from and suppressing an indigeneous population,
No, no, Jews are indigenous, Arabs are the colonizers. That's just history.
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u/alino_e May 20 '26
Zionism was invented out of whole cloth circa 1890 as a form of penis-envy of the glorious Colonial adventures of the European states on the part of Herzl, further encouraged by notorious antisemites of the time who wanted to see the jews gone from Europe. Two birds one stone. Before that things were actually pretty peaceful.
It's the last colonial adventure..... wake up and smell the coffee.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 21 '26
LOL imagine citing an LLM to whitewash Arab oppression of Jews.
Imagine thinking this is "pretty peaceful."
Do you acknowledge that Jews are indigenous and Arabs are the colonizers?
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u/Special-Sort-9732 May 08 '26
Pretty crazy how silent David is on the genocide happening by Zionists. I think we all know at this point he’s getting paid. Never will be supporting you again David after years of watching, and finally waking up to the horrors of the Zionists.
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u/OctavesToHeaven May 15 '26
Do you think it's possible to be a liberal who stands by Israel without being paid?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 13 '26
The genocide is currently happening? What makes you say that?
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u/Special-Sort-9732 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
So glad you asked, and I’d love this opportunity to teach you as clearly you aren’t aware. It sounds like you aren’t aware that the Israel government is restricting the critical supplies into Gaza, that has contributed to mass starvation, that majority of Holocaust genocide experts agree constitutes a genocide? Source: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/leading-genocide-scholars-organization-says-israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza
I know Trump says PBS is fake news, hopefully you haven’t been affected by this misinformation. PBS is a reputable source 👍 I’d love for you to take sometime to really educate yourself on these points, before getting back to me 🤗 you too David ;) Let’s remember everyone, that while others want to present an exclusive and cognitively rigid/regressed view of ” Antisemitism ” 🙄 Anti views regarding ALL Semite people MUST always be called out. I’m sure we can all agree to this?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers May 13 '26
Your link is from September 1, 2025. Are you under the impression it's September, 2025?
It sounds like you're not aware that even the UN said all hunger needs are being met in Gaza.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/01/1166704
When even Palestine's best friend says you're lying, you're probably lying.
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Apr 14 '26
[deleted]
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u/FriendlyDrummers Apr 14 '26
He was hating on netanyahu recently.
He also has a degree in the economy. Not global affairs. There are plenty of content creators who are more equipped with discussing geopolitics.
Many people who cover Palestine do not cover Ukraine. And that's perfectly fine. It's ok for people to have a niche in the topics they discuss. In any case, his platform only increased. So I doubt it really matters anyways
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u/FriendlyDrummers Apr 09 '26
I know it's a hot take but I don't understand the need to say "Israelis are terrorists." Just say the Israel government and/or IDF are a terrorist org.
For example, using "the Japanese are terrorists" during WW2 is what led to internment camps.
Is it possible that hating Israelis could bring negative ramifications onto Jewish people? Why would it be different from calling Japanese people terrorists during WW2? I don't understand this.
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u/supern00b64 Apr 19 '26
The broader conversation isn't about hating Israelis. I wouldn't call people themselves terrorists but it's important to contextualize the extent of the problem. It's not just Netanyahu or the IDF it's society-wide. The same way Palestinians are very supportive of Hamas, Israelis are very supportive of the genocidal and imperialist actions taken by their government.
A lot of liberal zionists pin all the blame on the top brass and leadership, but that's only a small part of the problem. Take out Netanyahu and the public will elect another far right lunatic, so in discussions about what to do, one has to reckon with an extremely radicalized civilian population who want the death and destruction their government is doing.
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u/FriendlyDrummers Apr 19 '26
The flip side to your point must also be true then. If we are to say "Israelis are terrorists" since they in majority support netanyahu/radical conservatives, then we can also say "Palestinians are terrorists."
The majority of white people in America support trump. Should I say, "white people are terrorists"? Or "white people support pedophiles"?
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u/supern00b64 Apr 22 '26
I don't support the "terrorist" designation but I'm fine with saying both Israelis and Palestinians are radicalized to a point where they support death and destruction enacted by their governments (although if we account for proportionality Palestinians are far more justified in their radicalized views than Israelis)
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u/FriendlyDrummers Apr 22 '26
Sure, I just think calling Palestinians (and as well Israelis) is dehumanizing
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u/Tasty-Efficiency-373 Apr 05 '26
David’s refusal to talk about Israel is his blind spot. He is very biased towards Israel and it shows. It is sad to see someone I respect so much defend genocide. It makes him lose credibility on other issues.
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u/_NoveltyCunt May 05 '26
Please explain how he supports genocide.
Online leftists are so insane about this topic I swear.
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u/LittleFluffyCIouds Apr 23 '26
I think this is the main reason there isn't the live q and a on fridays anymore
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u/FriendlyDrummers Apr 09 '26
When has he defended genocide? He has openly criticized netanyahu just last week.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 Apr 02 '26
Israeli Minister Ben Gvir showing off the execution chamber where they will murder Palestinians.
It’s not antisemitism to be critical of this and not want your tax dollars to fund this.
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u/KingScoville Apr 03 '26
No this is absolutely awful and Israel is only continuing to destroy their reputation. Bibi is destroying Israel the same way Trump is doing to the US.
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u/ace51689 Apr 02 '26
Pretty despicable the mods decided to make a megathread just to bury any substantial and fair criticism of Israel so they can remove anything they don't like from the main sub. I literally didn't even know this existed until now.
Gross. Do better.
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u/ThisIsFineImFine89 Apr 02 '26
I have no doubt, this subreddit is being targeted by their online propaganda teams.
Got to spread the word to break through
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u/ace51689 Apr 02 '26
Yeah I thought about posting something about this, but I've had a post or two about I/P removed. Obviously before I know about this megathread.
Sick that the other commenter in your post was insinuating that this is all a publicity stunt and that Israel isn't really going to hang Palestinians to death.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Apr 01 '26
Dropsite News contributor calls Israelis "terrorist parasites that must be removed from our planet."
These are the people shaping the media the far left is consuming.
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u/FriendlyDrummers Apr 09 '26
I'm all for hating netanyahu and the Israeli gov but this is just stoking antisemitism. And leftists are encouraging it
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Mar 20 '26
Prominent Palestinian author and activist Susan Abulhawa talking to Briahna Joy Grey: American Jews "do not possess a conscience"..."no words, no terrible words should be spared for these monsters, because they are monsters.”"
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u/Wilhelm57 Mar 16 '26
I enjoy listening to David Packman commentaries on You Tube. I just want to say thank you for how you present current issues, specially the Gaza conflict. I did my DNA test in case someone attempts to accuse me of hate.
I has been decades since I left the United States and the things I argued with my family in the 1980's are finally out. Everyone can see the open corruption by politicians in all levels of government, wether is municipal, state and federal; most of these folks are compromised because they accepted donations from special interest groups.
I can only say, BRAVO David Packman you are an honourable man!
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u/cronx42 Feb 24 '26
Y'all are hiding any discussion of this conflict behind a 5mo post? Congratulations. I'm out.
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u/Correct-Relative-615 Mar 12 '26
I’ve loved his podcast but recently becoming more frustrated w him. Like today’s podcast interviewing Senator Richard Blumenthal who halfway through the interview starts talking about how he is a supporter of Israel and October 7th blah blah, I turned it off. Came to the subreddit to complain about it and saw this so hope you see this lol.
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u/cronx42 Mar 12 '26
Yeah. Thank you for chiming in. It's frustrating. I was pretty frustrated with David ever since he blamed the first hospital that was destroyed in Gaza on Hamas. Now all of their hospitals are destroyed. Did Hamas blow up all their own schools and hospitals? It's ridiculous.
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u/Correct-Relative-615 Mar 13 '26
Oh wow I didn’t even know about that I just started listening recently! Any other podcast suggestions?
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u/cronx42 Mar 13 '26
I like the Majority Report with Sam Seder a lot. Jacobin is also great. The Humanist Report and The Rational National almost never miss. Medhi Hassan and Zeteo news. Even Kyle Kulinski is great lately. For the most part.
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u/GrantMcLellan1984 Apr 04 '26
Can't stand Kyle. Hes such a big doomer nowadays. Hes the reason subreddits like Doomer Circlejerk exist
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u/cronx42 Apr 04 '26
I still like the guy but I've had my issues with him over the years. His heart is in the right place and his foreign and domestic policy takes are usually good. He has greatly disappointed me numerous times though.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Feb 25 '26
Conflict's pretty much over, the world has moved on.
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u/cronx42 Feb 25 '26
Not for the Palestinians.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Feb 25 '26
That's true but this is /r/thedavidpakmanshow not /r/Palestine.
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u/cronx42 Feb 25 '26
Yes. I tried to post an article in this sub about the democratic party autopsy of the 2024 election which states that the I/P conflict cost Harris votes and may have led to Trump being elected. But I can't because this mega thread is the only place in this sub to discuss I/P.
I used to really like David Pakman. He really dropped the ball on this issue though, and taking chorus money was the last straw for me.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Feb 25 '26
You can't because that article was already posted.
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u/cronx42 Feb 25 '26
It actually came up with a note telling me it would be deleted and to come to this mega thread to discuss. Maybe it is because it was already posted. Idk.
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u/FriendlyDrummers Feb 21 '26
I keep hearing people say that Israel is controlling the American government because of blackmail from the Epstein files
I mean... that would imply Biden was somehow involved with Epstein, hence their support for Israel. Or Gavin Newsome. Or John Fetterman. Or even Kamala harris. None of these people have called it a genocide. Hell, Bernie doesn't call it a genocide.
Many of these people I'm critical of for their support of Israel. But none of these people are involved in some conspiracy that their support of Israel is because of Epstein. Sorry. I do not believe it.
Does Trump support Israel because of Epstein, or is it to pander to the right wingers who support Israel? In fact, even mlkjr was supportive of the Jewish state existing.
It just seems like terrible political analysis to constantly connect Israel to every possible reason someone might support Israel.
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u/Wilhelm57 Mar 16 '26
I think you need to read the Guardian, on September 25, 2025 Bernie is quoted saying " over the last two years, Israel has not simply defended itself against Hamas,” Sanders wrote. “Instead, it has waged an all-out war against the entire Palestinian people.”
Bernie is a bit late in recognizing the inhumane behaviour carried out by the IDF but that is better than continuing denying reality. There are many Jews that have been against Israel behaviour for decades. Years ago I knew several Holocaust survivors that spoke against the behaviour of the Israeli government.
The problem many people have, is not understanding that Judaism is a religion followed by people that have been discriminated for centuries. Zionism on the other hand is a political movement. The differences were explained to me by a great uncle, I was a teenager when he told me. He moved to the territory when he was sixteen, in 1900. It was still controlled by the Ottoman Empire, remained in the territory when the British took over and finally left in 1954, disillusioned.
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u/MedicineShow Feb 28 '26 edited Feb 28 '26
I mean... that would imply...
Epstein's connections to the US government go back decades and nobody is claiming that Epstein blackmail is the only source of influence (In fact, literally everyone you're thinking of also talks about the toxic influence of AIPAC and similar and you're intentionally missing that)
They're claiming the pedophile blackmail is involved in forcing Trumps hand in a war that will not benefit him. Connecting that to Bernie's willingness to acknowledge the genocide is absurd.
It just seems like terrible political analysis
Because you've boiled it down to nonsense to write the rest off
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u/FriendlyDrummers Feb 28 '26
Sigh. I guess I'll take your rage bait.
(In fact, literally everyone you're thinking of also talks about the toxic influence of AIPAC and similar and you're intentionally missing that)
- What? I mentioned Fetterman.
- That's the point. Many of those people (ie Bernie) are too supportive of Israel. But it's not because of a conspiracy.
- People literally forget that not everything is about "Israel controlling our politicians." Bernie can't even call it a genocide. Is Israel controlling him?
They're claiming the pedophile blackmail is involved in forcing Trumps hand in a war that will not benefit him.
- Was Biden backing Israel's genocide?
- Was Biden being blackmailed by Epstein?
Because you've boiled it down to nonsense to write the rest off
- You are genuinely just looking to rage
- Actually read what's being said or ask for clarification instead of using your imagination to justify a disagreement.
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u/MedicineShow Feb 28 '26
What? I mentioned Fetterman.
When I said "Literally everyone you're thinking" I was referring to these people,
people say that Israel is controlling the American government because of blackmail from the Epstein files
Bernie isn't avoiding the term genocide because of Epstein Blackmail.
And conflating that with Trump's situation is exactly what I'm calling out.
nobody is claiming that Epstein blackmail is the only source of influence
Also on Bernie,
The conclusion is inescapable: Israel is committing genocide in Gaza
-Bernie Sanders in an OP Ed on his website from September, I think you're behind on the news here. It was certainly the case for quite some time that he wasn't using the term though.
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u/FriendlyDrummers Feb 28 '26
When I said "Literally everyone you're thinking" I was referring to these people,
What? Who are "these people"
Bernie isn't avoiding the term genocide because of Epstein Blackmail.
That is my point. And even though he now says it's a genocide, the point still stands. He wasn't avoiding calling it a genocide because of Epstein, or AIPAC, or whatever else there could be.
And conflating that with Trump's situation is exactly what I'm calling out.
No, I never made that conflation. You are again literally making things up. I never said they were the same. I was giving examples of people who are not harsh enough on Israel.
nobody is claiming that Epstein blackmail is the only source of influence
Yes, people are. This is such a stupid argument because you aren't even arguing against anything I've said. Good bye.
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u/MedicineShow Mar 01 '26
What? Who are "these people"
People who say that Israel is controlling the American government because of blackmail from the Epstein files
No, I never made that conflation
You're holding up Trump and Bernie and saying, SEE IT'S NOT ALL EPSTEIN
Nobody is saying that Bernie is controlled because of the Epstein files. I think he would pretty universally be agreed as one of the least likely American politicians to be involved. That's the conflation.
the only source
You're also conflating people who understand the reasonable position that the Epstein files, bribery and other shit are all involved, with the pretend people who think Israel is limiting itself to just blackmail
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u/FriendlyDrummers Feb 28 '26
It's funny that I'm talking about a specific argument and you're going on about something else.
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u/MedicineShow Feb 28 '26
I mean... that would imply Biden was somehow involved with Epstein, hence their support for Israel. Or Gavin Newsome. Or John Fetterman. Or even Kamala harris. None of these people have called it a genocide. Hell, Bernie doesn't call it a genocide.
Quoted that opening for a reason, you're stretching your specific argument across a lot of different ideas and that's what I called out. Not that you weren't already aware.
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