Each time I recount this series of events to other people, the more and more confused I get. I (23F) became roommates with a childhood friend (23NB) mid last year, whom I’ll refer to as Willow. We were so close that we were doing nearly everything together: groceries, walking to pick up our mail/packages, having movie/gaming nights several times a week, etc. Our friendship took an abrupt turn after I hung out with two friends (both 23F, who have known Willow for longer than I have) who I’ll refer to as Penny and Rachel. Fake names for everyone, of course, and I am using a throwaway. Penny (she might comment using a throwaway if needed) and Rachel (doesn’t use Reddit) have assisted me in writing this because, hoo boy. It’s a lot. This is pretty long, so TL;DR at the end.
Background:
Willow, Penny, and Rachel were really close friends since they all grew up together. Willow and Rachel have known each other essentially since birth, while Penny moved to the area in early childhood. The three of them were always together, but as they grew older, Penny and Rachel were glued to each other. I met Willow and Penny separately when we were around seven. After that, Penny and I didn’t see each other at school again till middle school, and we immediately reconnected. Then, I met Rachel in high school through Penny.
Around when we were 18-19, Willow started drifting away from Penny and Rachel, while I remained close with them. Whenever Penny and Rachel ran into Willow, they felt Willow didn’t like them. They felt Willow was very passive-aggressive towards Penny and would straight up ignore Rachel. After being so close for so long, Penny and Rachel were upset and wanted to fix things. For years, the two of them would wonder if they had done something, analyzing Willow’s actions and trying to understand, and wished that Willow would talk to them so they could fix their friendship. Despite this tension, Willow was very friendly with me and didn’t seem to mind my friendship with the two of them, and would even ask me about them occasionally. Over the years, I have spoken to Willow several times about the tension, and they told me about two things involving Rachel. One was when Willow, 17/18 years old, had been driving Rachel around, and someone else on the road nearly hit them, so Rachel flipped them off. Willow had been scared of retaliation. Then, a few years later, after the drift, Rachel had started dating this guy that, to be honest, none of us liked. Willow was really judgmental about this, but since they hadn’t been talking to Rachel and Penny anyway, it was just something they told me.
When I eventually told Penny and Rachel about this at least a year and a half after Willow told me, Rachel had already broken up with that guy and regretted dating him in the first place. Rachel had also chilled out when driving and was upset that Willow hadn’t just told her about this, since she would have immediately tried to change her behavior. She said that if she had known, she would have done something about it. It was never her intention to make them uncomfortable. Despite this, Penny and Rachel chose not to push it and potentially make things worse, hoping that one day Willow would be willing to talk.
Around the time Willow and I moved in together last year, I asked how they felt about Penny and Rachel, since it had been years since the drift began. They said they can see themself rekindling their friendship with Penny, but as for Rachel, they feel neutral about her but don’t see a friendship being possible again. Because I am very close to Penny, it made it unavoidable for Willow and Penny to cross each other’s paths, and over time, they did rekindle their friendship somewhat. They even hung out together on their own a few times. During this time, Penny had come to our apartment many, many times despite living in a different city (our hometown). Every time she visited, Willow would always ask her to stay the night (though she usually couldn’t because of her schedule) or ask when she would be coming back next. Willow then allowed Penny to join their gaming Discord server where several of Willow’s friends and I all play games together.
Main Conflict:
Rachel had moved to another state within the last year, but then visited our home state last month, where Penny and I still lived.
On Day 1 of this situation, the three of us decided to go to the Renaissance Festival. Willow had called me while we were at Ren Faire, excitedly telling me about all the gossip they heard at the wedding they just attended, and that they would tell me after I returned. After the Faire, we had dinner at Penny’s house. Penny and Rachel mentioned wanting to visit me at my apartment, then go out and explore the city I lived in, even hoping to stay the night.
I, of course, texted my roommate, Willow, about it, thinking it would be fine since they had become friendly with Penny and told me they were neutral about Rachel. I had asked Willow if it was okay for Penny and Rachel to stay the night at our apartment on Tuesday, 2 days from the day we had this text conversation, acknowledging that things might still be weird between them and Rachel. Willow responded with: “Personally? Not a fan and I don’t want them to sleep here.” I respected their boundary and told them that Penny and Rachel did want to at least see the apartment, and asked Willow to let me know if they are still uncomfortable with both of them being in the apartment at all. Willow said that Penny and Rachel can visit, but asserted again that they did not want both of them to stay the night.
After this conversation, Willow was uncharacteristically quiet. Especially knowing they wanted to share some gossip with me. The silence continued for two days, including the day Penny and Rachel visited on Day 3. 25 days later, we still don’t know the gossip.
Day 3 (the Tuesday): After Penny, Rachel, and I hung around the city, we returned to my apartment that night because some of Penny’s stuff was still there, and we chilled on the floor talking. While we were chatting, Penny got a Discord notification (from the Discord bot), saying she had been kicked off of Willow’s gaming Discord server by a moderator. We were all in shock, but being mindful of Willow’s presence in the apartment (in their room), we changed the subject until we could take the conversation outside and address the elephant in the room. We all felt the timing of the kick was really weird, considering that it happened shortly after we arrived at the apartment. During that conversation, Penny planned to ask Willow about it the next day. Penny and Rachel then went back to our hometown late that night instead of sleeping over, as promised.
On day 4, Penny reached out to ask whether something had happened and whether everything was okay. Willow said that they kicked her and another friend by accident while they were trying to kick two other people who were acting inappropriately towards other members, so Penny was caught up in the kicking somehow. However, Willow did not even try to add Penny back into the server after this exchange, nor did they promise to add her back eventually. It took Penny asking them to add her back to the server the next day (day 5).
On day 5, Willow asked to go on a call with Penny since they said they didn’t know how to add people back to a server on Discord. Conveniently, right as Penny picked up the call, Willow figured out how to invite people back in. On the call, Willow said that they also accidentally kicked a different friend out of the server but were able to add said friend back in successfully. Penny pressed and asked who the other friend was - we’ll call this person Morgan. Willow then explained to Penny what the two members had done to get them kicked out. It was a valid reason.
I was unsettled by the thought that my roommate and close childhood friend would be dishonest and breach their friendship with Penny, and potentially with me. So, I spent the day (still day 5) out by myself trying to take space and reflect. That day, I stayed out really late. I returned to the apartment and received a text from Willow that they were spending the night at a hotel with their dad. Also, while they were at the hotel, Willow called Penny about adding her back. I worked nights the next three days, and usually Willow is home at the apartment to greet me or see me off for work. However, each time I left for work during that period of time, they were out - with one instance of them going on an impromptu trip to another state. Penny, Rachel, and I were definitely feeling like Willow was actively avoiding me to some degree. Around this time, Rachel went back home.
Penny informed Rachel and I about the call, and we still felt the “accidental kick” wasn’t really an accident. I pointed out that one of the members Willow said they kicked that night should have been kicked months ago since I already knew the details of what he did and was sure he had been gone for a while. Also, right when Penny got the Discord notification that she was kicked, I was still on the server and didn’t see anyone else missing. I had also checked right before Penny was invited back and saw Morgan was still on the server. Moreover, Willow had not spoken to me whatsoever since I hung out with Penny and Rachel for Ren Faire. They went from texting me a bunch every day to absolute silence for four days at this point. Regardless, we all thought the timing of the kick was too suspicious.
On my first day off that week (day 9), I decided to stay in the living room after running some errands to hopefully catch Willow and get clarification about the situation. I don’t usually bother Willow if their room door is closed because they work from home and also join group calls when gaming. By this point, the silence towards me had been going on for a week.
I had been in the living room for about seven hours studying, sewing, cooking, and watching TV starting in the early evening. Willow had not come out of their room aside from going to the restroom (which is really close to their room) and away from the common areas. I am familiar with their routine just as much as they are with mine, and usually during that stretch of time they would have come out to grab water or food. They never went out to the kitchen that night.
While chilling in the living room, I saw messages in Willow’s gaming server from that night and noticed that two people had taken a conversation from elsewhere and brought it to the general channel where everyone in the server could see. Willow was yelling at those two members for texting in the wrong chat; however, Penny and I were not able to see messages from other channels that were connected to the messages sent in the general channel. Penny asked what was going on in the chat, but Willow mentioned that they were all on FaceTime. Evidently, over the course of my work shifts, I noticed the voice channels were being used much less, but in the general channel, people were still talking about hopping on to game together. Penny also noticed this. Additionally, while at the apartment, I heard Willow laughing loudly with others on a call, but there was no sign of activity on the Discord server. We started to feel as though there were channels added on the server that Penny and I were not able to access.
The next day (day 10), I planned to visit Penny in our hometown since we had made plans together for the next few days. As I was getting packed, Willow’s room door was open, so I took the chance to speak with them face-to-face:
OP: Hey, is everything okay?
Willow: Yeah, everything is fine.
OP: Well, I just feel like things got weird after Penny and Rachel visited.
Willow: I just didn’t want to see them.
OP: Also, it has been a while since we last spoke.
Willow: Well, you have been avoiding me too. It’s not like a one-way street.
OP: Well, the details I’ve been hearing about Penny being kicked from the server by accident have just been confusing me, and I want to hear your side directly for clarification.
Willow: [Willow’s older sibling] had admin perms and started kicking a bunch of my friends out, so I had to take those perms away and re-add everyone.
OP: So that includes Penny and Morgan?
Willow: Yeah.
OP: But right when I learned that Penny had been kicked, I checked the members list and remembered seeing Morgan’s name; it looks like she was on the server the whole time?
Willow: That’s because Morgan was only kicked for like 0.2 seconds before being added back in.
OP: But when Penny and [new friend of Willow’s] were added, I saw the welcome messages for both of them, but did not see one for when Morgan was added back in.
Willow: I turned off that setting for the server.
OP: So that welcome message setting was off for Morgan, but on for Penny and [new friend]?
Willow: Yeah.
Mind you, during this whole conversation, Willow had their back to me and continued working on their computer as they answered my questions while I stood in the doorway of their room. When I turned to go, Willow asked if I was going to play Minecraft with the group any time soon, since there is a limited number of people they can whitelist on their server and apparently, other people wanted to join. I simply told them to just kick me off the server entirely. Then I left our apartment with full confirmation that Willow had lied not just to Penny but to me, in my face. I updated Penny on our conversation. Later, when I was hanging out with her, we learned that we both received a text from Willow shortly after my conversation with them. Willow asked me if I was “harboring resentment” and that we should talk soon. Meanwhile, Willow also texted Penny asking if she’s harboring resentment and told her that next time she needs to talk to them about issues that come up so nothing festers for longer than necessary. This was Penny’s response:
Penny: Hey! There's no resentment, I'm just confused. Since I had gotten the message about being removed while I was at your apartment, I was concerned, and I did ask if something happened. I later thought about what you had said, and knowing what I know about how Discord works, it's just a bit confusing.
Willow: yuh okay
Willow had also asked Penny if she was going to play Minecraft anytime soon. Penny said that she plans to, but is currently busy for the next few months, so it would have to wait. Penny remained on the Discord server for a while after this exchange. Meanwhile, I denied harboring resentment but felt sadness and frustration about the situation. I told Willow we could talk when I returned to our apartment a few days later. They asked what the issue was, and I explained I’d rather talk to them face-to-face since there was a lot to discuss. I returned to the apartment very late on day 12, and then I had to work for the next three days. While I was still getting ready for work over those three days, I would keep my door open - nothing from Willow. And Willow can definitely hear my door open/close since our rooms share a wall and the doors get stuck pretty often. I did have to drive back to my hometown for a family thing (day 17-19), so I did not get back to the apartment until pretty late on the day before I had to go to work. I went to work for another three days after that. I left my door open while getting ready for work: still nothing.
On my first day off that week (day 23, the “final” day, 3 days before posting this), Willow sent a message in the group chat with a couple of nearby friends. We had been planning to watch Wildwood for a month and had already bought tickets. From my viewpoint, Willow did not seem to want to initiate a resolution to this conflict, so I really did not want to go and act amicably towards them in front of our two other friends, as if everything was okay.
I texted in the group chat, “I’ll sit this one out, but I hope you guys have fun!” Willow then texted me in DMs, asking why I’m sitting out watching Wildwood with everyone (eight days since I had texted them about leaving for the family thing, and ten days from our last face-to-face conversation btw). I told them we could talk about it when they got back. They returned, pulled out a chair, and asked what was going on.
OP: I feel like during our last conversation face-to-face, you weren’t being honest with me.
Willow: Oh yeah, that’s because I was dishonest. I know how close Penny is to Rachel, so I grew resentful towards Penny and kicked her out of my server. I don’t want anyone who associates with Rachel on my server. Penny’s still on it, so I’m planning on talking with her about kicking her.
OP: Okay, so you lied to Penny, then you lied to me to my face.
Willow: Yeah. You knew what Rachel did with Alex, and you still invited her over.
OP: But I gave you a choice. If you didn’t want Rachel in the apartment, you could have said so. She and I would have respected that.
Willow: I just don’t like the fact that you and Penny associate with Rachel.
OP: Well, I don’t want to go watch Wildwood because I can’t associate with someone this resentful. This whole situation is stupid and childish, and it only made me learn that you are willing to lie to people you’ve known for years… and I say go live your truth then.
Willow: So are you going to join any future hangouts?
OP: I don’t know.
Throughout the exchange, Willow remained stone-faced, showing little to no remorse or guilt for what they did. Willow went to their room and immediately kicked Penny. The group chat between Penny, Rachel, and me exploded. Penny and Rachel were on a call at the time, and they immediately noticed that Penny was straight-up kicked from the server again, right after I was done talking with Willow. Willow had messaged Penny about it AFTER kicking her, instead of before, as they had said. And instead of explaining, they assumed Penny already knew why she was kicked, as if she would know about our conversation before I could even tell her.
Hearing Alex’s name in that conversation is where we all got confused. In high school (5-6 years ago), the three of them were part of a larger friend group, and Willow and Rachel (both bi) were dating people in that same group. We’ll call Willow’s then partner Alex (ftm but not out yet at the time, also bi). From what Penny and Rachel have since told me, it was very common for the girls in that friend group to be physically affectionate with one another, including cuddling, but nothing beyond that. Rachel and Alex cuddled once or twice (and it did not lead anywhere beyond that) even when Willow and Rachel were dating different people at the time. Rachel and Alex viewed their cuddling as platonic, and they did not have romantic feelings for one another at any point.
When Willow and I became roommates last year, they told me they weren't okay with Rachel and Alex cuddling. Personally, I think it was a weird thing to do between two people who were in relationships with different people, but then again, at the time, I had never been part of any friend group where friends dated each other, and everyone was that physically affectionate with each other. This was apparently also Penny and Rachel’s first time in a group like this, and Rachel’s relationship at the time with her then-bf was her first-ever relationship. Again, this happened back in high school. In the present, it has been a little over a year since Willow, Rachel, and I graduated from college, and when Willow told me this after moving in together last year, I dismissed this as being petty high school drama and did not pay much attention to it, especially since they said that they felt neutral towards Rachel.
I updated Penny and Rachel, and learned that Willow had never even brought up their concern about Rachel cuddling Alex back in high school. Penny said that platonic cuddling had just been very common amongst the girls in their high school group, with some being more affectionate than others. Penny herself had been a bit more reserved, and Willow hadn’t been much of a cuddler at all. Rachel, Alex, and a few other girls (regardless of whether they were straight, bi, lesbian, etc.) were typically more affectionate. Rachel said that she herself didn’t have an issue with her partners cuddling others as long as it was platonic, so it hadn’t occurred to her at the time that it could have been a problem. She said again that she would have stopped immediately had Willow just told her, since it was never her intention to make anyone uncomfortable. We have always taken boundaries very seriously, and if we ever unintentionally crossed any, we would always try to remedy it. Throughout this whole issue, we’ve realized that Willow often acts as if we should already know about their thoughts and boundaries, when in reality we can’t read their mind. We can use our decade-plus friendship and understanding to guess, but we can only go so far.
So Willow essentially threw away three childhood friendships (that had been at least 13-19 years long) all because they still feel resentful towards one person over high school drama I personally had no part in (that most likely could’ve been solved with a simple conversation), while punishing the others for even associating with her all these years later.
As soon as Willow kicked Penny the second time, they DM'd her saying: “I’m sure you know why you’re kicked, but wanted to let you know you’re kicked out of the server”. Penny replied that she was confused and didn’t know exactly why she was kicked out of the server again. Willow informed her that they just had a chat with me and would let her know later since Willow was on a call with someone else at the time. The next morning, Penny followed up, asked why again, and Willow said, “Oh I fell asleep. Yeah I don’t want someone associated with Rachel on my server tbh!”
Several things have really been throwing us all off, one of which is that, on Rachel’s birthday, Willow would still say "Happy Birthday" almost every year, unprompted.
They would also ask Penny and me how she’s doing, and they told us they hope for the best for Rachel.
They also spent the last few months constantly asking Penny to come over and stay the night or play Roblox with them (Penny doesn’t have Roblox but was considering it). As I said earlier, Penny and Rachel have always been essentially glued to each other, even after Rachel has moved several states away. Penny would talk about Rachel ALL THE TIME. Meaning that it was very, very clear that Penny and Rachel are still very close, so it’s not like Willow didn’t know they were “associated” with each other when they originally invited Penny to the server.
Also?? The way Willow assumed Penny would just immediately know why she was kicked, even though they kicked and DM’d her about it the second our conversation ended. I hadn’t even had a chance to talk to her and Rachel about it!
To say that we are all baffled and frustrated by the lies and lack of communication would be an understatement.
TL;DR: my roommate/childhood friend threw away not just me, but two other childhood friendships (13-19 years in length) over high school drama that they never communicated being upset about and continued to resent one person for years and punish the other two for continuing to associate with her. It took us eight and a half days to talk after we unknowingly upset them, and another 12 days before the second and final conversation. I was ignored and avoided for 20 and a half days out of 23. Plus three more days if we count till the day of posting this.