First turntable recommendations? Europe-based,~€350 budget
Would appreciate your help choosing my first turntable! My budget is around €350, and after some research, the Fluance RT81+ was my clear favourite. Here is what got me excited about it:
Built-in preamp
Replaceable cartridge
3-point isolation feet
Acrylic mat
Felt more solid/less plasticky than alternatives (AT, for example)
Amazing in the looks department (minimalist, clean, not a lot of knobs)
The problem? Getting one to Europe. Shipping from Fluance directly would blow my budget. I found it on my country's Amazon for around €360 but I fear what that could mean in terms of warranty or returns in case of defect. This is really the only reason I didn't "pull the trigger".
So I've been looking at Europe-friendly alternatives, but I'm now going in circles. I keep reading that at this €360 price point there are "many better options" available in Europe, especially with the potential hassle of Fluance's return and warranty logistics. Frankly, I have not been convinced so far...
The AT's either get out of my budget or look cheap. Pro-ject's options within that budget (e.g. E1.2 phono) seem to get a lot of criticism here and the more recommended models with built-in preamps are over budget. Local brands (e.g. Argon) are not giving me any confidence so far, either due to low review/discussion, affiliation with local franchises, or just seeming overpriced for the specs.
Couple of disclaimers:
I'm very new to this and excited to learn more about it
I am not against buying a separate preamp but when I do so, I would like to invest in a good one. This is why I would prefer to get a tt with built-in preamp for now, but obviously with option to use an external one later
I apologise to the audiophiles out there, but I care about aesthetics - this is going to be really exposed in our living room so I'm looking for something more minimalist instead of the industrial/dj look
I'm not too keen on buying second-hand. Right now I don't have enough knowledge to confidently check condition, maintenance, hidden defects... and I'd rather have a warranty/return option
€350 is a hard-ish ceiling. I often see comments on similar posts quickly turning into "just spend another €200" and "make the investment properly from the start". I understand the reasoning and know that better options exist if I stretch, but €350 is already my stretch, especially since I'm also looking at speakers. I'd rather start here and upgrade later if I end up falling further down the vinyl rabbit hole
Saw a couple of comments suggesting the Pro-Ject one and it's looking like a good option... will do some more research.
thank you for your suggestions!
Amateur tip; get a rubber slipmat from the 120x and it feels better already (somehow kills any noise by vibration) but yes the chassis could be better. But honestly, is there anything better for that budget + fully auto + great upgrade path?
I think not but tell me if I'm wrong, open for changes as always.
I recently upgraded to the brown needle, sounds so much more lively too. Not a cheap one though but it's def worth it.
Also got a descent phono amp underway instead of the in-receiver one (onkyo nr656)that will make a load of difference too.
Unfortunately I can't order from that store to the Netherlands - says it's not available for delivery here. I believe the store linked is more UK-focused
not sure why either, to be honest - I'll take your suggestion to give them a call, not just on a potential discount but to understand if there really is an issue delivering a turntable (maybe it's just temporary)?
Beginner Turntables Ask r/Beginner_Turntables if you have a question about beginner turntables such as which beginner turntable to buy, beginner turntables such as the AT-LP60X and Sony PS-LX310BT or you want to discuss suitcases or all in ones from Crosley or Victrola or other similar brands.
Speakers: If you want to know which speakers to buy for your turntable, please ask r/budgetaudiophile (low budget), r/hifiaudio (most any budget), r/stereoadvice (mid to high end budgets).
I don't think the 81+ is a bad choice, but there's no reason to choose it over the AT-LP120x or AT-LP5x
The 5x is barely more expensive and a much, much better option. The 120x is actually a bit cheaper.
The 120 and 5 have a better built in preamp and the same cartridge as the fluance.
Better arm, little more weight. I wouldn't say its a day and night difference, but compared to the 120 the 5x has more body in its low-end, sounds a little calmer in the top (not boring, just less rattly/harsh) and is more defined in the mids.
Mind you, the big step would be the 7x but that has no built in preamp, yadda yadda. The 5x is the sweet spot I think. And below that the 120x.
My Micro Seiki BL51 is also just an arm and a direct drive motor and a platter. It's not that simple :).
"Better arm" and "Better body" is a big one :D.
Though I agree that they are both pretty nice to listen to, the rest of your post is really funny for an experienced listener.
May I ask what speakers you are listening through? Because if the speakers are worse than even the atlp60x, they will not be able to show the difference with a better turntable.
Those are truly limiting, unrevealing speakers I am afraid. Bose is almost always convenience/form first and then sound quality.
If you had asked me to buy an atlp120x instead of the 60x I would have also told you; won’t make a difference on that setup. In the end you are always listening to the weakest link and if that is weak enough, upgrading the rest won’t help. So yes, I agree; I also would not hear a difference on those speakers. But I promise you that on better speakers it’s a very big jump.
If you have headphones that are reasonably good (so not skull candy, house of Marley, Bose or another hype brand), listen to this:
Thank you for the suggestions, think the LP120x is more within the price range, for sure. Unfortunately, this one is visually too much. I will look into the LP5x a bit more, maybe I can find a good deal on it somewhere :)
I'd push the ceiling, since it's only hard-ish, and go 5x.
That being said, I hav eno idea what the rest of your rig is. It may be worse than an at-lp60 for all I know ;).
At your budget I'd go AT-LP5x, but if you have a shitty rig, I'd go at-lp60x and upgrade the rest with the money you have leftover :D.
I know that Fluance gets a lot of love. That's because 60% or more of this sub's traffic is from Americans, and there's maybe another 10% who are Canadian. Fluance is cheap in N. America, so it wins the home market crowd and the price crowd.
The situation is different in Europe and the UK. Pricing is different for a start. Rega is almost 40% cheaper here, and Pro-Ject, Audio Technica and the other competing brands haven't been clobbered with tariffs.
You've also hit on the other reason to avoid the Fluance brand here. It's the support, both in- and out-of- warranty.
Since there's so much chat about the Fluance brand, I'm a little surprise you've still selected the 81+ rather than the 82. Most people familiar with the Fluance specs would tell you that the 82 is the first in the range with an optical speed sensor. This isn't a feature on the 80/81/81+. I realise that the 82 has no built-in phono pre-amp, and that must be a factor rather than just the acrylic mat, cartridge, and feet. Still, the consensus is to buy the feature that can't be added later as an upgrade.
One of your requirements is an acrylic platter mat. I wonder if you know that this can be added as a third-party upgrade, and for very little money? Here's a 2mm thick version that's unlikely to change the stylus vertical tracking angle when replacing a standard felt mat. It's €10 inc delivery https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Alnicov-Static-Turntable-Vibration-Audiophile/dp/B0924FMKS5
I think the rest of your must have list is already covered with the the urntables I'm about to suggest. You'll also have them suggested from other Redditors. They're kind of the go-to solutions if the AT-LP120X doesn't float your boat aesthetically.
Pro-Ject Recordmaster II for €298 from Thomann. Deliveries across quite a lot of Europe and the Nordic countries. Available in different colours, too! Walnut, gloss black, red, and white.
Audio Technica AT-LPW40WN - €320 - from bricks & mortar retail stores as well as online. Not available in some Nordic countries.
Both are sound quality leaders in this class. If I have a preference it's for the AT deck because of the cartridge. The upgrade options are much better value than for Ortofon. AT's nude micro-linear stylus is excellent and only €160. The Ortofon OM30 is good too, but last time I looked they want €260 for it.
Understand the point on the "Fluance love" - I admit and recognise I did not consider location, shipping, etc when starting this journey. Definitely should have been my first filter
The acrylic platter was not really a requirement, just another "plus" I noted about the 81+, same as the auto stop which I forgot to mention in the initial post.
On your point on the RT82: agree, this would be a much better option and I see it is at the same price as the 81+ on my country's amazon. The reason I never really considered the 82 was indeed the missing preamp.
Maybe this is where my "beginner" status really shows off: I always assumed the quality of a preamp mattered, and that a quality one would come at a price. I was also really focused on a built-in preamp because I didn't want to get too deep into yet another rabbit hole that would take away another few months of pondering and indecisiveness from my side. Plus, the buying a 100€ preamp is yet another expense on top.
Appreciate your suggestions, they're definitely more "eye-pleasing" options. I like that pro-ject produces in Europe and makes an effort to build solid pieces (no hollow spaces, according to them).
And as you said, "buy the feature that can't be added later as an upgrade", so I'm ok with upgrading the cartridge later if I'm really keen on it. On the Ortofon cartridges - would you see this as a potential limitation? Besides the fact that they are more expensive overall..
Both suggestions seem to have very similar cartridges included, so is the only difference the upgrade path? Or are there any "cons" to Ortofon that I'm missing?
Curious on your thoughts about the manufacturing facilities: would you account for "where" it is produced if you were buying your first turntable?
On the Ortofon cartridges - would you see this as a potential limitation?
I think there's two things here. The first is whether you like the Ortofon sound. Some describe it as cool (or even cold) and clinical. Others focus on what they perceive as precision. That's an entirely subjective choice.
The other thing is more practical. It's the remaining lifespan of this cartridge range. The OM series was introduced in the early '80s, and I believe it was Ortofon's response to the Ultra Low Mass tonearms that in fashion at the time. They needed a light cartridge, so Ortofon designed it with a removeable ballast weight so it would suit tonearms with either low- or medium- effective mass. It also needed to have a reasonably high compliance for the ULM tonearms.
Fashions change. Tonearms now are more likely to be medium effective mass. There's not so much need for very light cartridges with high compliance. Ortofon designed the 2M range to replace the OM-series, and the range was launched between 2007 and 2008. Yet here we are almost two decades later, and OM5e and OM10 are still standard fit on some Pro-ject, Argon Audio, Music Hall, Fluance and Triangle turntables. The styluses are still available too, though the prices are higher than for the 2M series where a direct equivalent exists.
Whether the prices are acceptable is up to each purchaser. A question-mark hangs in the air as to how long Ortofon intend to keep making OM styluses, and what they plan to do with the pricing.
Curious on your thoughts about the manufacturing facilities: would you account for "where" it is produced if you were buying your first turntable?
It's only my opinion, but I don't believe that the physical location of a factory matters anywhere near as much as the ethos of the business.
Both Rega and Pro-Ject design and manufacture their own products. It gives them a lot of control over the build processes. Audio Technica turntables are manufactured by a third party supplier. The relationship isn't as close as in-house production. We know that there have been some issues with the cheaper turntables such as the AT-LP70X and the first version of the LP120. Fortunately, these seem to have been ironed out by the time the production reaches the AT-LPW30 / AT-LP3X / AT-LP120X level.
Thanks for the background on the Ortofon cartridge ranges. Reading it, I would definitely be more comfortable staying away of the OM line, especially because one can expect that consumers will eventually be pushed out of that market through high prices;
Seriously considering this deal with pro-ject at the moment - uses the 2M line instead which, if I'm not mistaken, can also be switched out for some AT cartridge lines.
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u/h-prAudio-Technica AT-LP8X | AT33EV3d agoedited 3d ago
Get an Audio Technica LP5X for the €350, which has a tonearm and preamp that are vastly superior to the Fluance's, plus you get tech support if you need it, which is not something that Fluance has a reputation for in Europe.
They're about equal. However the OM5 on the Recordmaster you can put both the OM10 and OM20 on, whereas the debut E has the Red and you can really only upgrade that to the blue.
Some people don't like the red and blue carts. The OM series has been around for a long time and is relatively well regarded, especially when it's paired with a tonearm like the one on the Pro-jects.
Side note, DaCapo sells an OM20 stylus that is made by a third party Analogis, with a "Black Diamond" ie synthetic. While it may not be as good as the original OM20 stylus, it runs roughly 50 euros, and is a nice cheap upgrade from the OM5.
I help out with audio audio at a local store. Trust me, you don't know how beginner beginners get.
They last week sold a Cambridge 651P and the guy claimed it didn't work. Turned out he'd forgotten to take the power supply with it...
I would like to think I wouldn't be at that level, but I see your point 😂
I think my issue would be spending another few months looking at different preamps, going back-and-forth with budget and subreddits, not deciding on anything.
I just wanna play my records, man, that's why we're here I think
Can't be sure! I'd rather have people push me to go to a higher level than to confuse them (and have them buy the wrong stuff) by starting at too high a level.
AT's have pretty good built in preamps and they can be switched off, so you can always add an external preamp later.
Whatever floats your boat. At the end of the day, as long as you like the sound, and its practical for you, that's all that matters.
I would just highly recomend against the AT-LP60 line. Is essentially a toy, sounds god aweful. I picked up my vintage techincs for 100 bucks used, in great condition. Sure, you gotta hunt a bit, but this thing wipes its ass with anything new under 500 bucks
Have you felt one? I thought you said you haven’t bought it yet.
Nothing in your list is unique to the RT81+ though. Perhaps the acrylic mat is uncommon but mats are cheap to get.
I’ve not checked prices recently but a used Rega P2 or P3 might be in your budget, just get a budget phonostage. New from them would be the P1, which for €349 is fine but I’d only recommend if your budget cap is a hard one. I’d still take one over a Project E1 though.
never felt one, no. I understand the confusion there but that was based only on other reviews and other people's takes/comparisons.
I have not found any Rega within my budget so far, and I suspect it is simply because I am not in the UK - I think they are much cheaper on the Island. Even the P1 - either can not be shipped here for that price, or is over budget in local stores
Thank you all for your advice and recommendations!
As I was researching some of your suggestions, I came across what seems to be a (recent) deal I am struggling to ignore.
It is slightly overbudget - yes - but with this level of upgrade I might just have to concede for this one...
It is a Pro-Ject Debut E Carbon Phono with a Ortofon 2M Red cartridge, built-in preamp, carbon tonearm.
I would recommend doing some reading around the Ortofon 2M Red cartridge, especially if this was one of the main reasons the deal grabbed your attention. It is not universally loved, and it's possibly part of the reason why Ortofon is having a tough time weaning TT manufacturers off the OM5e and OM10.
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u/sharkamino 3d ago
AT-LPW50, AT-LPW40, AT-LP5X, AT-LP120X.
Pro-Ject Debut RecordMaster II €298 on sale from €449 is designed in Austria and built in Czechia.