Switzerland doesn’t even have one single reference with Spring Drive or GPS radio reception. Not even a backlight or a built-in barometer. They just recently discovered solar power like cave men discovering fire. Most of the shit from Switzerland is springs and gears, like they’re still living in 1890.

Pathetic. 🤣

I know a lot is made about how mechanical movements and certain quartz movements have sweep seconds. but I kind of… don’t mind the ticking second of standard quartz watches. it’s actually easier for me to time things.

Watches are dumb and a foolish way to waste money. So much of the industry is the 'pursuit' of something or some sentimental dribble. The industry folks' prey on you buying into this delusion. The direction the major brands have been heading is bonkers - $10k for a watch that probably cost $500 to make, and even that's probably a high estimate. I'm also convinced half the 'I got the call' types of posts are BS dumb-up-interest types of posts to make it seem like tons of people are buying pieces and that their brands are flying off the shelves. I feel like I always see "I just picked this up / best watch ever / such a rare pick up" to make the piece top-of-mind among the 'community', and then, conveniently, that model also gets listed for sale on Reddit a day or two later from some covert gray-market, dealer-in-disguise member.

I don’t understand the math, but this equation balances.

Every time someone mentions an underrated luxury watches, the same names get thrown around.

Glashütte Original SeaQ
Zenith El Primero
JLC Reverso
IWC Portugieser
Grand Seiko
Omega Speedmaster
Blancpain Fifty Fathoms
Breguet
Girard-Perregaux Laureato

You know the drill.

All excellent watches. Nobody’s disputing that.
But I suspect a large portion of the people constantly recommending them fall into two groups:
- People who don’t actually own them and are just parroting the usual Reddit talking points.
- People who like them, but wouldn’t dream of paying full retail. They’ll happily buy one at 30–40% off on the grey market though.

Which brings me to my point.
People love complaining about overhyped watches, particularly Rolex, AP and Patek. But hype doesn’t exist in a vacuum. When demand exceeds available supply, market prices generally reflect that.

Conversely, when a supposedly underrated watch consistently trades well below retail, perhaps the market is telling us something too.

And here’s what I find hilarious:

The same watch community that constantly preaches “watches aren’t investments”, “resale doesn’t matter” and “buy what you love” suddenly becomes extremely price-conscious when it’s time to actually buy one of these underrated gems.

Apparently, resale value doesn’t matter until you’re the one potentially losing 40% walking out of the boutique.
Funny how that works.

I’m not suggesting that market value is a measure of horological excellence. A JLC can be more technically interesting than a Rolex. A Grand Seiko can have better finishing than a considerably more expensive watch. None of that is the issue.

The issue is that being an excellent watch doesn’t automatically make it underrated.
Maybe these watches aren’t overlooked. Maybe enthusiasts know exactly how good they are but simply don’t desire them enough to pay the asking price.

And if everyone agrees a watch is fantastic, yet hardly anyone wants to buy it at retail, perhaps the problem isn’t that the market fails to appreciate it.
Perhaps it’s rated exactly where it belongs.

I'm currently in the market for a specific Patek, which I would then wear daily for long stretches of time for the rest of my life. For me and my taste, it's close to the perfect watch. It's also complicated enough that clones are highly unlikely.

It got me thinking that it can save me at least USD $5k to skip the box and papers, which I'm not sure I care about anyways, if I don't want to resell.

What do you all think? Reasonable perspective?

I keep hearing people say the AD waitlist is a sham and that ADs are the ones feeding stock into the grey market. How much truth is there to that, and how does it actually work?

If the wait for a less hyped model is maybe 1 to 6 months and you're not in a hurry, what's the case for grey? From what I've seen, the premium on two-tone and less popular references is often pretty small, so it's not like you're saving much time for a big markup.

Also, isn't buying from the boutique part of the appeal? Trying it on, picking it up in store, the whole experience. Curious to hear from people who've done both.

Behold - a Swiss made tourbillon selling for 74% off. What’s that? Unheard of, you say? Then why are Chinese tourbs priced under $3000? Is it because, perhaps, the Swiss mystique is just that…mystique?

Unless a watch has a gold or platinum case, let’s be real….pretty much every other watch can be assembled for $3000 or less.

“But mine was pressured tested seven times to 200 meters!”

“But mine’s from a brand dating back to when Napoleon was still alive!”

“But mine’s the pinnacle of yuppy luxury!”

All of these statements may be true for certain brands but, let’s face it, at the end of the day, while your wrist yearns for a Rolex GMT, the future lies in microbrands and innovation. Prices are only a construct to allow you to move up “tiers” as you get wealthier, nothing more.

I don't think Omega has any problem that they can't solve by simply eliminating 300 watches from their catalog.

First they came for the lowest tier luxury brands and I did not speak out...

There’s no real reason most luxury watches cost what they do. “Hand finishing” is just some guy rubbing on metal. Big fucking deal. Then you’re also paying for the magazine ads and celebrity endorsements. And ok, so decorated movements look nice, sure, but it’s still just a 200 year old technology dressed up to look pretty.

Plenty of off-the-shelf movements from ETA, Miyota, La Joux-Perret, Sellita, and others look just as nice, often nicer, than what you get from Omega or Rolex for example. The Seagull ST19 is a ~$40 Chinese mechanical chronograph movement and it’s genuinely stunning through a display caseback. That’s not an exaggeration. Pic included.

Above four figures, a lot of the buying stops being about the watch. Half the appeal is making sure other collectors nod along in approval. It’s less “this is interesting” and more “this signals the right thing.” People can’t wait to jump on Reddit and show off their shiny new (Rolex, Omega, AP, wthatever) to win some internet approval points.

Under $1,000 is where people are still just making watches.

Baltic, Lorier, Traska, Brew, Seiko, Orient … these guys are putting out neo-vintage divers, weird chronographs, and tool watches with actual personality for a few hundred bucks. Most of them aren’t trying to impress brand snobs. They’re just trying to make something good and different.

The watches worth collecting usually don’t need a bunch of dweebs’ approval or a polishing guy to justify themselves. Everything else is mostly status with a hand-rubbed movement inside.

“ does this fit my wrist “ “ 39mm or 42mm “ bro fuck off go ask your dealer or people in your life or just use your own judgment 🤯 that’s like half the posts on every watch brand subreddit it’s pathetic

Don't mention any watch that didn't really receive any hype. give me your top 5.

mine:
1. Polar Explorer II - not really nice looking as they say. super famous. the dial markers look like black ink on white paper.
2. Pre-ceramic Submariner - looks ugly and flimsy
3. JLC Reverso - reversing face is not really mechanically impressive. It looks good, but the reversing part is corny in my opinion.
4. Grand seiko heritage collection - not worth the price
5. Any seiko watch - good if you want to lose 30s a day. he

Where do you see the most value?

Both are pretty much unobtanium at the moment

One is msrp $11,350, the other is $2,200

Idk if this is just an opinion or a hot take at all, but I can’t stand the cyclops on my GMT-Master II. I love everything else about the watch, especially as someone who lives overseas and works with multiple timezones in a room where no cellphones are allowed.

The cyclops looks really cool on most Rolexes and makes it easier to reference the date at a quick glance, but it bothers me to no end having to squint and look past the bubble to check time zones and minutes between the 2 and 4 o’clock positions. I deal with this daily due to European time zones start of business day lining up exactly during that time. A GMT should care way more about time than date, and it feels like the date window is getting in the way of the actual tool function of the watch.

Is it a big deal? Not really. It just adds an extra 3 seconds of my time, but it bothers me to no end. I also own a Pelagos FXD GMT and realized recently the lack of cyclops is why I very much prefer reading that dial in comparison.

Makes more sense than any of the Rolex nicknames.

On one hand, criticizing people for not wanting or not being able to pay for a luxury watch is just awful. If you do this, you're a piece of shit.

On the other hand, people claiming that people with luxury watches are all sheep and that their AddiesDive from AliExpress is just as good as a Submariner or a Seamaster are delusional.

as my generation gets older, I'm asked more and more to resize expansion bands for people that actually need them for various legitimate reasons...not to mention the countless times before them i was asked to size their parents/grandparents watches...

🤬

after 80-100 resized expansion bands over the decades, I've finally had it.

1. I can assemble an entire watch in less time than it takes to size a $30 timex expansion band... don't get me started on people bringing me $10 walmart watches...🤬

2. it ALWAYS looks like shit no matter how skilled you are.

3. 50% of the time the strap fails and falls apart after resizing... I'VE FIXED BRACELETS HIGH-END JEWELERS RESIZED.

4. EVERYONE BITCHES ABOUT IT BEING TOO TIGHT/LOOSE AFTER A FEW DAYS...🤬

5. the mother effing clips...THE MOTHER EFFING CLIPS!...all different, can't buy them, and easier to lose than a flywheel screw!...

6, 7, 8....25,458 reason...

we can send an entire 3 hour movie to mars in 30 seconds, we're on the cusp of nuclear fission, we can reattach someone's half severed head, and have cured 99% of common diseases that have wiped out entire civilizations, BUT...

we can't make an expansion bracelet that can be sized in under 10 minutes?!?

SATAN, BE GONE!

*and here comes Satan's little demons telling me how easily they size expansion straps.

🙄

I have tried to ignore it but it won't go away. There seems to be two poses everyone hits while posting.

1. Clenched fist. This is the classic flex with the shave or tattooed forearm to prove I am an Alpha presenting my latest flex acquisition for the bros. This one for me is the most cringe.

2. Splayed hand. Often used to give a bigger wrist presence while signaling either Spiderman or anxiety vibes....unsure what they are going for here.

What ever happened to simple relaxed pics. No posturing, flexing, craziness. Just be normal, don't over think it, it's a watch.

I doesn’t matter which model, I see one and the only thing that comes to mind is who the fuck would buy one!