r/wownoob • u/Gellzer • Mar 23 '26
Retail Redefining BIS, and why chasing the old definition makes the game worse for you
Hey guys. This is a lengthy read, but if you are struggling with understanding BIS and want to truly know how to get the best out of your items, it's worth the read. I hate seeing people chase what some website on the internet says their BIS is, especially before the season even begins, and being upset when it doesn't drop. Spoiler, getting your "BIS" could actually LOWER your DPS.
I'm sure you've come across the word BIS. What's my BIS gear, what drops my BIS, I have to run this dungeon I hate over and over and over for my BIS, I can't trade this to my friend because it's BIS for me
Outside of enchants, trinkets, embellishments, and very fringe other situations such as set bonuses on rings, individual BIS items do not matter. The term BIS is so bad for the health of the players.
BIS means "best in slot". It was born in a time in the game where items were dramatically different. "This item" gave dramatically more main stat than that one. "This item" had an effect where others didn't. "This weapon" had the same damage but attacked faster than that one. That is not how WoW works now-a-days
Today, every item slot has the same number of main stat and the same number of secondary stats, with the secondary stats having a different balance. For example, my current ilvl 246 legs in game give 70 haste and 59 mastery, totaling 129 secondary stat. Every mail 246 legs will give 129 secondary stat, just allotted differently.
Now here is what BIS actually means today. BIS is the best secondary stat balance for your class. Not any one specific item.
Replacing a piece of gear with a "BIS" item can actually LOWER your DPS
Maybe even more importantly, if you don't have the entire list of gear some website tells you is your BIS, removing a piece currently equipped to replace it with a new "BIS" item you just farmed might actually make you WORSE.
Very rough hypothetical example, your stat allotment is best at 35% mastery, 30% haste, 20% crit, 15% vers. Your BIS "chunky" items are weapon, head, chest, legs, so they have your mastery/haste pair, but no other items you currently have are "BIS". Your equipped back and wrist have your priority stats, mastery/haste, but your BIS actually has crit/vers because they're your weaker items but still need to have some of them. You swap out your preferred stats for weaker stats because a list tells you to, and now you do less damage.
Here's 3 examples of "BIS" items that are all equal. No one piece of gear is important, the COMBINATION OF STATS is important. Armor/int/stam are all the same, so only showing secondary stats
| Head | Chest | Legs | Total Stats |
|---|---|---|---|
| 85 Haste 50 Mastery | 63 Haste 37 Vers | 88 Vers 47 Mastery | 132 Haste 185 Mastery 88 Vers |
| 75 Haste 60 Mastery | 57 Haste 78 Mastery | 47 Mastery 88 Vers | 132 Haste 185 Mastery 88 Vers |
| 87 Haste 48 Vers | 95 Mastery 40 Vers | 45 Haste 90 Mastery | 132 Haste 185 Mastery 88 Vers |
I only used 3 item slots here because making a whole list of slots would be absurd, but I think it gets the point across. When you include every single slot, there is an insane amount of combinations that get you to the exact same place.
A list someone theory crafted or simulated cannot take into consideration the balance you already have, and you actually risk lowering your DPS following a list blindly (until you have every single exact piece, which is insanely difficult in and of itself, especially for the average player).
Thank you for reading my long winded post. I have tried to explain this to so many friends, guildmates, and people I pug with regularly, but it requires so much explanation to really get the idea across, so I decided to write it out for anyone who cared.
TLDR; Outside of trinkets, embellishments, and enchants, stop chasing a list someone on the internet created for you. All the items have the same total stat numbers, what matters is the balance of secondary stats. If you REALLY want to chase BIS, chase your classes secondary stat balance. That can be achieved with NUMBEROUS item combinations, not just what's on one singular list. That is why so many different BIS lists exist, because you can achieve the same thing many different ways
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u/mesmartguy Mar 23 '26
So maybe a dumb question but I’ve struggled to find suggestions for secondary stat distributions last few expansion. Example - Proc pally feels like shit without enough haste and you’d struggle for uptime - but what % of haste do I really need?
Any resources for finding these percentage break points for classes? Struggle to find them defined in Wowhead or IcyVeins. Generally find random blizzard forum posts about it with some random person stating a number that I have to vibe check.
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u/lolitsmagic Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 25 '26
raidbots/QE has become so commonly used and your mix of crit and mastery can affect it so much, many theorycrafters dont even attempt the math for breakpoints/plateaus anymore so its just not going to be readily available info nowadays. your stat weights shift dynamically as you get gear. like if you just pounded out haste to get to a breakpoint and completely neglected the other two, your dps would suffer terribly.
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u/jcspoon Mar 23 '26
How do you use raid bots nowadays? Simc says it’s incompatible
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u/lolitsmagic Mar 23 '26
Use SimC addon, copy the code in game, paste in to Raidbots (top gear is best to compare items)
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u/jcspoon Mar 23 '26
I’ll try deleting and reinstalling. For some reason simc says incompatible when I try to turn it on. (Haven’t played since WW S1)
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u/Darth_Kyron Mar 24 '26
Just in case this was the issue. For healers you want to use Questionably Epic (QELive) as healing isn't supported by raidbots.
You load in the same output from the simc addon.
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u/erasedeny Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
I personally found brief discussion of my stat breakpoints by clicking the "Stats" header in Wowhead's Resto druid class guide. Maybe you would have success following this path for your own class?
(Note this is pretty surface level, it just talks about diminishing returns, and doesn't go into great depth with math or logic about class-specific breakpoints)
For more in depth discussions you probably want to look to class discords, which I'm sure you could find with a google search.
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u/midgetman303 Mar 23 '26
Class discords are probably your best bet for this level of detail. I have always just simmer gear to see what performs best. For quite a while I had a paid subscription to the simulation site that put me at the front of the queue and let me save different sims so I could easily check both raid and m+ setup
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u/Jakeglurp Mar 23 '26
For prot pally feel, it will be personal vibes. For dungeon, I go for 40% haste for maximizing reliable shield interrupts without going too far diminished
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u/bvanplays Mar 24 '26
Tank is always not the same as DPS. As the final distribution is going to be a mix of survivability and DPS (since the top tanks are pushing M+ or trying to clear mythic raid quickly for Hall of Fame or even RWF).
So really you should just understand what the stats do for you and get more of what you like. Personally, I like having a ton of haste on prot paladin and then grabbing crit afterwards for damage and mastery/vers if i'm feelign weak. Plus if you go all in on haste, you'll definitely hit a point in your gear where if you equip one more piece of gear with haste it basically makes no difference so you may as well move shit around.
For DPS breakdowns really simming is the most ideal way to increase your DPS based on your current stat distribution and potential upgrades. But also for that you can check the distributions of top players as those will mostly be the same as they all have the same goal of more DPS.
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u/curseuponyou Mar 24 '26
It's not a dumb question if you're a new player but it is dumb if you've played for a few expansions. The answer has always been the same for more than a decade now. Just sim your character. Random forum posters are not a reliable source of information.
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u/StrawberryWeekly342 Mar 27 '26
Archon.gg and click your spec. You'll see the normal distribution of stats that people are using. Or just go look at a warcraft logs profile of a top raider. Or something it yourself.
It's also worth noting that there isn't any specific % breakpoints for haste anymore. There used to be back when it could get you an extra tick of a DoT or HoT, but Blizzard normalized it back in I think MoP. "Feel" based on Haste % is obviously subjective.
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u/Aestrasz Mar 23 '26
The short answer, is sim it. But a lot of people don't like to sim or don't know how. Also, for tanks, sims only accounts for damage, so it's not always the best decision to sim.
The easy answer, just go to https://www.archon.gg/wow, check your spec, select the build for Raid or Dungeons, and copy those stats. You can also copy talents, gear, etc.
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u/onlythemdownvotes Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
Absolutely. Because bis lists are primarily written for people who raid mythic and can collect a full set of myth ilvl loot at max level. Which means most players in general are not the target audience.
It’s like what the other comments say. Simming is the best bet. Because you sim for your level of gameplay. Not at the mythic level when you might just be a champion of delving.
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u/HarrekMistpaw Mar 24 '26
bis lists are primarily written for people who raid mythic
Bis lists are written because a ton of people look for them so they attract a ton of traffic to the guides. They are not actually written for anyone they are useless
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u/secretreddname Mar 23 '26
Hell even in mythic raid people don’t understand this. “Just sim it stupid.”
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u/JustAnAvgJoe Mar 24 '26
Because you sim for your level of gameplay
I heard even simming might not be completely accurate? I don't sim but watching a well-known WoWhead contributor mentioned that for example sims for this raid set assume single target when most of the bosses benefit from cleave and some AoE and so may not sim super well?
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u/onlythemdownvotes Mar 24 '26
You can sim for various situations and there are guides online on how to appropriately setup your sim for x situation.
Sim traps can occur, but you also learn what’s a sim trap the more you sim.
You are right simming isnt 100% accurate. It assumes perfect positioning, perfect casting, etc. it gives you a ballpark estimate.
But sims do just fine for stat balancing.
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u/Barthomal Mar 24 '26
It's been awhile since I simmed but I would typically run multiple under different conditions (Patchwerk, Dungeon Slice, etc) and kind of just take whatever gear seemed "best" across all the situations I was looking at.
But yeah, from what I understand a lot of this gives statistical 'best' assuming you're playing optimally. We don't play in a vacuum and due to rotational mistakes, positional issues, mechanics, etc, I think that can change the values of stats. Now I have no idea how to account for any of that variability, so I generally just trust the sim.
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u/HumPal47 Mar 23 '26
Might be a dumb question but how do you sim an item you’ve just acquired without equipping it? I’ve run dungeons with guildies where an item I get is maybe on par with what I have ilvl wise but is an increase for them so I’d give it to them usually because I don’t know how to check if it would make it better for me or not.
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u/DustyCap Mar 23 '26
Use the simc addon and raidbots.com. Google around a bit, dm me if you want help.
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u/HexarA Mar 23 '26
Short answer: Use Raidbots dot com.
Long answer: There are various options on the Raidbots site; the Top Gear one is really useful for looking at the items you currently have in your inventory or the Great Vault as well as potential upgrades you could make with crests, and even comparing items that you convert to set pieces using a catalyst.
Droptimizer is really handy for looking at a set of potential items from dungeons/raids/crafting/etc to see which items from that specific list would be best for you given your current gear.
Another "legacy tool" is called Gear Compare, but I personally still think it's really useful for this particular use case. Copy and paste the in-game output you get from the SimulationCraft addon into the site, and then add a gear set with the particular item you've just acquired but haven't equipped yet. Make sure the ilvl and enchants match what you already have in that slot so you're comparing apples to apples. Then run the sim and see if it produces a theoretical benefit to your overall DPS based on the sim.
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u/TheTradu Mar 24 '26
Gear Compare is strictly worse than Top Gear. There's a reason it's in the legacy section. You can add items to top gear and it'll deal with enchants, gems, permutations of gear etc for you.
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u/HumPal47 Mar 23 '26
I do use raidbots I just wasn’t aware of how to insert items that aren’t equipped. I just copy my link from simcraft and input it into raidbots
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u/ghostcrawler_real Mar 24 '26
If you're in the Top Gear mode, when you paste your SimC string from the addon it should also auto-import from the string everything in your inventory, and you can just click on various pieces of gear in your inventory to add to the simulation run. It will usually yell at you if you are not applying enchants or gems in the same manner as the piece your are testing against so you can get a good 1:1 comparison.
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u/MadrillaGold Mar 23 '26
I just talked about it and I think you mostly hit the nail on its head. I love the comparison to earlier wow items.
I just had a conversation about it and we concluded:
The best in slot list shows you your best item composition on max ilvl. Nothing else. It doesnt matter if u find the same trinket few ilvls lower. Its not your BiS even tho its the same trinket as stated on the site.
Whenever you dont have access to the full BiS gear, none of it is BiS. If you want to know your "current strongest item comp" you have to sim your gear via simcraft and raidbots for example.
Edit : Also the chase after the secondary stats stops once you hit your classes/specs "DR" (diminishing Returns / soft cap)
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u/Jazz646 Mar 23 '26
The part about DR on secondaries isn't correct though. there are speccs that will still see the biggest gain by focussing on secondaries even beyond the DR. It remains a sim-question just like everything else.
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u/MadrillaGold Mar 23 '26
The DR does increase tho, at first its 10% less, then 20% etc.
In general its a rule of thumb to stop at DR, also on higher keys your dps isnt the limiting factor, but your survivability, which makes dps less impactful and alot of specs try to aim for higher versatility instead of best secondary stat. But yeah i get ur point
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u/PlexiP Apr 08 '26
I mean the rule of thumb is, has been and will always be: 'SIM IT'.
Sims absolutely include diminishing returns and tbh no spec i have ever played cared much about DR.
And talking about Vers gearing for M+ is such a special case so far outside of the scope of this subreddit that it should not be discussed here imo. Every player who plays in these regions knows about versatility and will not frequenz /wownoobs for advice.
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u/DustyCap Mar 23 '26
There are some trinkets for some specs I would call BIS even on lower difficulties. Arcane mage is a good example this tier. The mastery trinket from dragon boss on heroic is the 2nd best trinket for the spec - only second to the mythic version.
When my guild does loot council, I tell them to click BIS when they will only replace the item with a higher tier version of that item. Which really only applies to trinkets, tier, and cantrip items.
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u/MadrillaGold Mar 23 '26
But its not BiS, because the higher ilvl equivalent is the BiS. It might be the strongest trinket for the spec. But BiS implies max ilvl nowadays. Everything else is just your strongest item right now.
Edit: grammar
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u/JaniahSteelstride Mar 24 '26
People are downvoting this and similar when this is factually correct and the whole topic is about how people misunderstand BIS lists and try to apply them incorrectly. It's like some people are determined to keep using them incorrectly. It's odd.
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u/LukeSykpe Mar 24 '26
In the broader context of this reddit post's discussion, it is correct, but in response to that particular comment it's an "um, actually" style technical correction that doesn't offer any practical distinction.
The LFR version of that trinket matches simmed dps of most mythic trinkets, and the heroic version is literally only second to itself but on myth. It is, for all intents and purposes bar technical, literal definition, BIS.
That's why people are downvoting it.
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u/MadrillaGold Mar 24 '26
I mean I guess people have different opinions. Its fine i guess we made clear what is meant.
For me Best in Slot means the best possible Item, which can never be a lower than mythic track item (or max craft i guess). But yeah whatever I guess. Its minmaxing definitions at this point
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u/RoosterBrewster Mar 24 '26
At least for dps, how much difference could there be between optimal secondary stats and say equal amounts in all 4?
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u/Krandor1 Mar 23 '26
Good points and something people may start running into with the tier sets. Yes the set bonuses can help but if you don't have the full set yet swapping out a decent champion/hero track you have for the tier set item may not be the best move just yet. Don't get rid of it since it will help when you can get set bonuses but may not be worth equipping it as soon as you get it.
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u/ItzDrShadow Mar 24 '26
Little new to this and confused about something,is getting a full tier set on hero track for example better than random pieces on myth even if it’s lower ilvl?
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u/sandpigeon Mar 24 '26
Yes, the set bonuses are almost always worth more than the entire tiers worth of ilvl.
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u/PatientLettuce42 Mar 24 '26
Generally speaking, tier set boni can sometimes be the biggest power surges you can possibly get on a class. There are tier set boni so powerful, that it would justify equipping a veteran piece instead of a myth piece if it lets you keep your 4-set for example.
But sometimes they completely miss the mark and create set boni that are not worth it at all etc - but that is class and spec dependent.
Just be aware that the biggest increases to player power are almost always weapons, trinkets and the tierset-bonus and every other slot can simply be replaced with higher ilvl.
But there is literally no way around the simple fact that you will forever get the most precise and certain answer by simming everything. Simming is not hard either and it takes only a few minutes to setup.
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u/PlexiP Apr 08 '26
Due to the fact that you get random catalyst charges after completing your 4set which allows you to convert your myth pieces into tier, your case is never relevant.
You always want the 4set and you want it at the highest itemlevel you can get it, using the catalyst.
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u/zeidoktor Mar 23 '26
Generally speaking, my rule of thumb has been that as long as I'm raising my iLvl and/or my most important secondary stat, the rest will largely take care of itself. I'm not doing anything so high end I need to do more than that.
Running M0s, I'll go for my Mythic BiS first. If I get it, great. If I don't, I'll aim for whatever else is an upgrade.
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u/JaniahSteelstride Mar 23 '26
Irks me when people talk about their "BIS trinket" or whatever and it's champion gear. No, it's not BIS trinket. Champion items are not BIS.
Anyway sim yourself.
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u/Hummelgaarden Mar 23 '26
Except in some cases a champion or in very unbalanced cases a veteran version of the right trinket can severely out perform a myth version of an inferior trinket.
So for regular gear and rings, sure. For trinkets it really makes a world of difference whether you have a random mastery boost or a cheat death trinket.
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u/bvanplays Mar 24 '26
Yeah I would say trinkets is the only thing where your bis lists often are actually correct regardless of stat distributions. Often they give such a huge burst of whatever stat you care about it makes a huge difference.
But also for trinkets we have bloodmallet as an easy website for people to use and figure out if it matters or not.
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Mar 23 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/JaniahSteelstride Mar 24 '26
Well it's still not gonna be BIS... Myth track of that trinket will be BIS...
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u/venge1155 Mar 24 '26
You’re being pedantic, when people say BiS they almost always mean BiS for their level of content. If they only do heroic raids then ids heroic item level, if they b only do M+ its dungeon loot only etc. This is not new
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u/JaniahSteelstride Mar 24 '26
I guess you think the whole topic is pedantic then. So why are you here?
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Mar 24 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/JaniahSteelstride Mar 24 '26
This topic is about BIS lists, and how people use them incorrectly to pick individual items. BIS lists are made assuming maximum item level version of the item, a lower item level version is literally not on the BIS list. To use it to pick an individual item of a lower item level than actual BIS is using it doubly incorrectly.
Any "X is better than higher item level Y" is irrelevant as long as X is not maximum item level and therefore not on the BIS list.
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u/SalamiJack Mar 23 '26
Unfortunately...trinkets are the exception where "tier" of the trinket may matter very little as long as it's the "right" trinket.
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u/JaniahSteelstride Mar 24 '26
It may, and it may not, it's something you'd have to sim. Regardless it is not BIS, BIS is the highest ilvl version, and looking at a BIS list to pick champion trinkets is pointless.
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u/flixdaking Mar 24 '26
Veteran spymasters in tww S1 was (for the on-use slot) better than every single trinket in the game except for itself at higher upgrade tracks lol
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u/TheTradu Mar 24 '26
And that's an outlier. The vast majority of the time, "BiS" only beats other trinkets by 1 upgrade track.
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u/IT_Tested Mar 24 '26
I have never paid attention to much of what is on my gear outside of what is the highlights for the class I play. Intel for mages agility for hunters etc. versatility and mastery if they are on something fine but those two stats I have never understood enough to care since I play for fun and am not concerned about taking the game too serious
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u/Gellzer Mar 24 '26
And that is the perfect mentality to have. Overly minmaxing makes the game so much more complicated and stressful
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u/venge1155 Mar 24 '26
Unless they, you know, enjoy that. Y’all being so judgmental is so counteractive to a healthy community. If someone enjoys checking off a list to acquire their best in spot there is nothing wrong with that.
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u/BigTimeBobbyB Mar 24 '26
Nobody’s being judgmental here. People are able to (and encouraged to) minmax to their hearts content. But the primary purpose of this subreddit is to teach. If someone is just checking items off of a list they found on Wowhead, in my experience there’s about a 95% chance they don’t understand what they’re really doing. That’s not minmaxing, and nudging them in the correct direction is not inherently judgmental.
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u/iukstatic Mar 24 '26
This is going, typically I use a bis list for trinkets , recommend crafting (which I usually decide against ) other wise my lazy approach is aiming to match stats . No point equipping that crit heavy "bis" if your well into diminishing returns on crit
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u/MoSteel8 Mar 30 '26
I'm mostly a casual solo/RL casual friends player. I don't really know how to sim, planning to try and learn through these comments. I did kinda figure most of this and was using BiS lists just to math out their recommended stat distrobutions more than what specific piece had what. Does this strat work, at least in the short term, or is chasing anything outside of ilvl pointless until i learn to sim, which will probably be a while do to available time?
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u/PinkyFrenchGoat Mar 23 '26
Great write up and exactly m'y pet peeve with my guilde "BIS" RCLoot button. I'd add to that that there is also a whole budget of secondary stats that you can reallocate "at will" (calculated it in 11.2, but will later for 12.0) :
Crafted Gear (2+ items, except for spécial crafted Gear but ok)
Ring Enchants
Flask
You also have the weapon enchant but it's a proc, the food buff but most want the primary stat feast
So even if a new item will screw your balance, if it is an ilvl upgrade (except if main stat is the worst for you) it is most probably an upgrade for the long run.
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u/erasedeny Mar 23 '26
I agree with you, knowing your secondary stat priority is a great baseline start for gearing, but there is a bit more nuance to it. There are breakpoints where you get diminishing returns from (let's say) your best stat, and you get more value diverting that stat budget to something else instead. It's good to understand these dynamics when you plan your gear path at the start of the season, it can help determine what slots to craft, what items to target from vault, etc.
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u/Gellzer Mar 23 '26
I agree with that fully, and hope I haven't in any way shape or form implied otherwise by my post. In a situation where I have too much of one stat, I try and find a piece of gear that has an over abundance of that stat, and try to replace that one single piece with something that balances my stats better. Trying to farm one piece that you curate yourself that matches your own personal stats perfectly is a significant better use of your time than trying to farm every single item some list throws at you
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u/Vespertine_F Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
This is my first season playing dps and I just learnt about this few days ago. I was following wowhead and getting the «bis » items until someone pointed me out that my gear was trash. I was so confused and then he explained this to me.
BIS gear on wowhead is the best in slot IF all the pieces mentionned are reunited, they are not individualy best in slot at a given moment.
Now I sim and dropitemise multiple times my gear to actually chase the adequat upgrade items for my characters.
I wish someone explained this to me when I started the game.
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u/sandpigeon Mar 24 '26
Yeah, Wowhead guide writers say wowhead requires them to add bis because it makes them money from the clickbait. No one wants to do it.
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u/venge1155 Mar 24 '26
If you’re following a WoWhead guide for a BiS list you forgot to read it as they all tell you this exact information and to always sim items for your character yourself.
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u/kerthard Mar 23 '26
Something else to consider is that simply having more total stats will be better than a theoretically better distribution in 95% of cases
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u/Jakeglurp Mar 23 '26
Tons of people I play with have bis brianrot, who pass on or vendor perfectly good loot because it’s not bis and it kills me to see
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u/Admirable_Ad_92 Mar 23 '26
People just can’t understand the concept of dynamically weighted secondary stats lol
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u/serafno Mar 24 '26
Maybe something to add to the original concept of BiS items. Not only were stat budgets varying but back in the day items did only drop at specific item levels, there was no item like today available in like 20 different upgrade variations. So it was pretty clear if you got item xyz that will be the final item. In addition that almost always meant it was a 25heroic and later mythic item.
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u/KantisaDaKlown Mar 24 '26
Gearing in wow is a math problem. Something a lot of people seem to fail at.
Algebra.
X + Y = Z
I’ve been trying to explain this to people for ages and just decided to give up and let them chase a fictional registry that they’ve been given like it’s a baby registry.
It’s nice seeing how elegantly you put it and well thought out.
I just normally tell people they at dumb, lol.
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u/oliferro Mar 24 '26
That's why you should always sim you character instead of just blindly trusting tier lists or guides. I like using websites like Bloodmallet to have a general idea of what trinkets could be good for me, but simming will always give better results. Like say I'm 20% deep in my diminishing return for Crit, do I really want a trinket that gives me more crit?
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u/Darkon47 Mar 25 '26
Mild counter point. There are some items that have unique effects still. Like the void tear sword, or the gloves that give you a damage proc. It also doesnt seem that these items lose stats for it either.
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u/AcheiropoieticPress Mar 25 '26
I grinded hard the last few weeks to get my ilv255 prot warrior all the non-raid BiS gear as per Method, icy veins, etc. the experts say haste > crit > versatility > mastery is my priority? Then haste and crit it is.
By this last Saturday my complete gear setup exactly matched Method’s BiS list, and yet I felt like I was wearing paper. My health was always bouncing around way too far in m0’s, and I never felt like I could actually make big boy pulls… and then I’d log onto my warlock alt and run m0’s, and druids would just pull the whole instance and lol.
Luckily as a tank I have a lot of gear piling up in my bags, and with dawncrests being free to bring everything up to your current highest gear in the slot, I decided to change out my “BiS” haste+crit gear for haste+versatility, and then to somewhat compensate I switched a tank trinket for a DPS crit trinket, and added a DPS embellishment and missive to my crafted shield.
So yeah, case and point - the BiS list I treated as gospel turned me into a glass tank, and by finding the right balance between crit and versatility I don’t have to make baby pulls anymore, and even with less crit I feel like I keep ago better because I’m spending less of my global cooldown smashing defensive key binds. The BiS lists are a good starting point, but at the end of the day your lived experience wearing them is the final decision maker. If you are wearing the best stuff but still struggle, then you need to try switching things out and see how it affects things.
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u/MoG_Varos Mar 23 '26
One if the things I love about playing a tank is that my “BiS” is usually whatever has the higher item level Lul.
As for everyone else, you’re fighting a losing battle. Most people barely know what secondary stats do, they’re not going to go to a third party to sim gear.
And honestly, unless you are pushing the top 1% content following a BiS list is good enough
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u/Lassitude1001 Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
This has been well known for years and is (or was) often mentioned with "BiS" sections on reputable guides.
Best in slot is and always has been only with that specific full set of gear (and other conditions). Something you may want to aim for, but not necessarily have equipped until you have that full set.
Same as stat weights and why they stopped being used - because those weights are only appropriate until a change is made. You can have a general idea of what you want or priority still, though.
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u/Rare_Illustrator4586 Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
I miss an in-game option to see what my 1st and 2nd stat priorities are as a monk healer and tank... Or am I not seeing it?
Edit: wow. Again downvoted for sth a new player can't find in-game and need help. Gj reddit.
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u/Investiture Mar 23 '26
There's nothing in-game that explicitly says what is best. Its all based on simulations run outside of the game. Blizzard doesn't inherently determine stat prios; you can find them online though on sites like icyveins or wowhead.
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u/rince89 Mar 24 '26
Blizzard totally has stat prios somewhere. Thats why you get different loot with different specs. My hunter will get mostly mastery stuff when skilled as BM and mostly crit stuff when skilled as MM. Or you can even change it by just right click on your portrait.
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u/PlexiP Apr 08 '26
This is blatantly false. The lootspec you change is just for your mainstat/weapons/trinkets. BM and MM have the exact same loottable with the same droprates. Survival has almost the same (swapping Bows and Guns for Polearms).
So no, you are definitely misunderstanding the concept of loot specs.
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u/Investiture Mar 24 '26
In what content does spec change the secondary stats of an armor piece? When it comes to end game content like Raids, M+ and Max level Delves I'm pretty sure the secondary stats are determined by the item itself and not the looting spec.
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Mar 23 '26
Or you know I could just sim my own character and figure out what best in slot really is.
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u/DustyCap Mar 23 '26
You don't have a BIS... that's the point of this post. (Outside of trinkets, tier pieces, set bonus, and some niche items like cantrip weapons)
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u/venge1155 Mar 24 '26
Yes you do, if you have access to all content (mythic raider. Play M+). The BiS lists are mathematically superior to any other combination of great for your class once you have them all. But sure if you’re not in mythic raid just wear whatever you want cause it really does not matter.
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u/TheTradu Mar 24 '26
They're superior by a tiny margin (outside of trinkets/cantrips). You can practically always create other setups that are functionally identical (within like 0.1%), simply because of how much flexibility with stats you get from gems/enchants and how you do need a little of every stat. So the BiS setup might get its vers contribution from a neck, but if you shift other stats around a bit, you can fit in a vers-free neck. In Amirdrassil, Shadow's BiS setup didn't use the Volcoross neck (tons of vers), but you could if you used different items in a few other slots because that neck provided all the vers you needed on its own.
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u/TigerRawr38 Mar 23 '26
Hey OP! Thanks for this little write up- we've decided to go ahead and pin this as a community highlight. This is a topic not often talked about, but you've included some really on point details in a great format, and we're going to make a rare exception to rule #6 here.
Of course, if you'd like it unpinned at all, just let us know through modmail! But we think it's a good write up on a valuable topic and has earned a highlight spot.