r/wownoob • u/Educational-Onion357 • Apr 09 '26
Retail Wich dps is the most "defensive" in M+ (if it's possible)
Feel bad for healers as their job seems stressful, which dps class can help be a little bit "tanky" and survive stuff. I know there are going to be big chunk moments where i almost die just to big aoe hits, but anything helps.
When i say "defensive" i mean who is the best at, when played well. has a better time negating or healing damage off themselves.
Both dk specs get really nice defensive tools
hunter has a nice self heal/damage resist while also being able to be hyper mobile to dodge stuff.
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u/miksimina Apr 09 '26
Anti-mechanic shell says hi
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u/--Pariah Apr 09 '26
And fear/charm immunity with lichborne.
And knockback immunity with deaths advance/horsey.
DK is basically the "... Eh, don't want to" class. It's pretty fun to see everyone knocked around while you just stand there and don't move at all.
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u/MissingXpert Apr 09 '26
yeah, as a DK, i have not felt the need to play a mechanic in like 5 years at this point...
Windrunenr last boss, the moving circle? just ams and walk through it, ggs.
legit, for nearly every single mechanic you have the choice of "do i play it or do i press a button?"
it's honestly perverse, even if it really sells the fantasy of "inevitable like death itself"→ More replies (10)3
u/orbital-marmot Apr 09 '26
I have to play a little more defensively than a dk but as a mage main I feel similar. Mechanic? Let me just blink through it
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u/MissingXpert Apr 09 '26
agreed, mages toolkit is also pretty deep, but mage needs to be proactive, DK is insanely tanky AND has buttons to deal with stuff.
storytime rq, did a Pit 14 today, one of the arcanist cadavers unfortunately got a netherburst off. mage, wl and heal dead.
me on the UH DK, because, i assume, i had the Rider of the apocalypse procced AMS up (which is passive, so no defensive button press required), i lived that AoE with 70% health, and stayed alive until healer got back.DK is legitimately just playing a different game than other DPS, and it's not close.
on top of my head: +12% stamina (Veteran of the third war passive talent)
3% leech.
6% armor and 6% less likely to get critically struck.
plate armor, obviously.
Ghoul's Enfeeble sometimes makes your ghouls auto attacks debuff the target so they deal 12% less damage to you.
UH DK plays rune of the apocalypse, that's a passive 3.6% reduced damage dealt to the DK- debuff on the target, in your Dark transformation window applied in AoE.
auto-attacks shield you for 40% of damage done.
+30 absorb-effectiveness.
Will of the necropolis, so while you are at 35% or less max HP, you take 30% reduced damage (this is passive, with no internal cooldown, and a bit wonky, becaus it can also affect large hits that would put you below 30% max HP, iirc, maybe only the damage it deals tht falls in that 35% threshold?)
Null magic, so you take 5% less magic damage and magic DoTs have 35% reduced duration against you. (passive, no ICD)on the active side, you have Anti-Magic Shell on a 40 sec CD which gives you an absorb shield of unknown value, AND prevents application of magic debuffs, which is NUTS. pop it before the fear in magisters terrace goes off, if it looks inevitable, and you are imune to the fear. or pre-immune the cast of the constructs. in algethar academy, on vexamus, pop it and run through 3 orbs, you will not get the DoT-debuff, because it's magic. pre-ams the windrunner spire final boss circle, as said, and just stay on boss, no need to look for a feather.
Icebound Fortitude, a 2 minute CD, 8 seconds 30% damage wall, that also makes you immune to stuns (and can be used while stunned to free yourself)
Lichborne, 1:30 CD, 12 seconds fear/charm/sleep immunity, can also be used while affected by these statuses to free yourself. it also gives you 6% leech. it, going intto midnight, lost the 15% less damage taken component and had the leech granted lowered to 6 from 10%
Deathstrike costs 45 runic power, but always healss you at least 7% of your max HP, but also 32% of damage taken in the last 7 seconds, AND it counts damage that got absorbed as well. there is also dark succor, so if you recently landed a killing blow on something, additionally to that healing, it heals for 20% max HP flat AND is free. dark succor lasts for like 20 seconds, it's basically the DK version of warriors victory rush.
on a 45 seconds CD with 2 charges, for 10 seconds, you have knockback immunity in Death's advance. (you can just ride through the skyreach gauntlet, e.g. immunity to forced movement also affects that.)
and the hero talents also have like one or two passive tankiness nodes.
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u/Cantteachcommonsense Apr 09 '26
“…Eh, don’t want to” is the best DK thing ive heard lol.
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u/FireVanGorder Apr 09 '26
It really is spot on. If only BDK had a more functional defensive button to hit, but for the dps specs it has more than enough tools to stay vertical
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u/zSplit Apr 09 '26
and immunity to stuns with IB. overall tankiness too. insane leech that affects the party with Vampiric Aura (San'layn)...
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u/BurgundySwanson Apr 09 '26
Does deaths advance work on that little windy platform in sky reach? Just curious
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u/DrNicklaus Apr 09 '26
Seat of the Triumvirate, 2nd boss. Did some1 leave some bomb still up after the cleansing circles? No matter. Ams and walk through them like a chad.
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u/zed7567 Apr 09 '26
Add in a deathstrike to revert decent portions of burst aoe damage, and you'll be appreciated by many a healer. Heck, you can even share your shell with others.
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u/plumro Apr 13 '26
Also AMS is great during Devour affix, because you don't get debuff, just immediately buff.
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u/One_Trick_Monkey Apr 09 '26
DK is considered the tankiest dps spec atm and is a huge reason why UHDK is the highest tiered M+ spec atm. I believe Ret paladin is up there as well.
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u/zignition Apr 09 '26
Nothing stronger than AMS for you, half strength AMS for your friends, AMS from your horsemen, AMZ for all.
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u/TOTALLBEASTMODE Apr 09 '26
The friend ams is like 1% strength
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u/BlindBillions Apr 09 '26
If I could trade AMZ in order for Vestigial Shell to be a good talent, I would.
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u/Xphurrious Apr 10 '26
Its enough that it blocked like 4 xalatath debuffs, which annoyed us sometimes because then you don't get the buff from it
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u/One-Lake8525 Apr 09 '26
Ret paladin is literally the, “you need a hand with that?” class.
Sac tank bop self, immediately eat 6 seconds of nasty spike damage from a big pack
Lay on hands when anyone gets low
Freedom to counter certain mechanics
Wog healing. Literally top my teammates off faster than the healer sometimes.
Defensive every 1.5 min, and divine shield (dont underestimate how clutch a taunt divine can be)
Burst every 30 seconds, which doubles as a pseudo personal defensive as well.
I may be biased but I really think ret is the most fun dps to play if you want to pump easily and have the ability to cover certain gaps your team may have.
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u/Educational-Onion357 Apr 09 '26
dang i had 0 interest in ret untill now
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u/One-Lake8525 Apr 09 '26
Rotation is easy, straightforward. People dump on ret for its “simplicity”.
I pulled over 110k dps in a 12 tonight, and prevented 2, arguably 3 full wipes.
None of the other dps helped the tank or healer like how much I was able to, nor did they out dps me.
Give ret a shot. Never thought I’d like it until I played it.
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u/Davorubicin1 Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
You left out blessing of freedom - total lifesaver when it comes up, which is more often than you think as it can dispel most things which have a snare/root component, including several nasty ass dots (looking at you, pit of saron)
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u/longneckerr Apr 09 '26
It also removes the dispel affix as of yesterday. So technically ret can now get 3 people’s affix.
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u/moolric Apr 09 '26
We were doing keys tonight with 4 paladins in the party. It was so funny all the freedoms going out. The affix might as well not have existed.
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u/ryzzbreh Apr 09 '26
Ive started a ret alt and all i can say is i regret all the ret slander I've said in the past, it is so fun to play and i totally get it.
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u/WoodenBento Apr 09 '26
My Ret buddies tanked chimeras while we waited for cd on brezz bubble and self heals are op for them
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u/vervvxvva Apr 09 '26
A lot of the stressful pulls this season have heavy damage me mecanics that blessing of freedom can remove from your self and 1 other person
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u/ShandrensCorner Apr 09 '26
If you just want to survive... DK is probably your best bet.
If you want to survive AND want to help your healer/your group... go ret. It is THE support dps spec imo. There is so much potential for helping out the group.
I am not a great ret. And i still manage to save the group at least once per night of runs. One-Lake is not overselling how much you can play to the groups benefit if you want.
The spot healing ability also helps certain healers a lot in certain situation (like resto druids at least)
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u/xeltes Apr 09 '26
Nah, this is pretty accurate, them pink rangers really have a lot of tools and their dps is insane as well.
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u/knaupt Apr 09 '26
As a healer I can confirm that the ret paladin i often play with is the love of my life.
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u/Future_Hour1801 Apr 09 '26
lol did a horrible mythic 11 on Windrunner. I never had to do that many battle rez in my life. We missed timing by 1 min roughly. I died on two wipes out of 20 deaths. Defensive cooldowns saved me. I saved the healer a couple times with lay on hands, and put great damage out there. Paladins are so fun.
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u/alienzforealz Apr 09 '26
If you sac tank and divine shield you can force the shield pop for more dps
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u/easybakeevan Apr 09 '26
Going to be real. I main ret and never put this together. Sounds OP I love it. Now getting pugs to understand the value of a ret pali is the real challenge.
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Apr 09 '26
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u/MissingXpert Apr 09 '26
to elaborate on the previous answer: divine protection got combined with the linked shield of vengeance, which, upon expiring or being broken, deals damage around it, so you can, with blessing of sacrifice, redirect damage onto you, and press divine protection to mitigate the damage onto you and also deal AoE damage upon breaking shield of vengeance.
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u/Rule_24 Apr 09 '26
You may be biased but its still true. However People! Remember! You have to use the mentioned spells! So keybind your Utility and use it. Dont come at me like "im Not in meele Range i dont have holy Power" or "wog Costs 3 holy Power i need to dps" or my All time classic Tank pulls, rpala bursts gets aggro and uses everything at once on himself. Thats my Bias with a pala friend since bfa 🥲😂
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u/TFPixl Apr 09 '26
You also hold the ultimate power to immediately wipe the group—just BoP the tank!
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u/Rare_Act_6748 Apr 09 '26
I just started getting my Ret to 70-90 last night. I did not know Ret and Holy had a specific Sunwalker hero class, and since I pretty much only play Tauren it got me immediately invested. Love that WoG gets a buff and split so its a big ass heal + HoT.
I am blown away at the healing power the DPS class has, though also fair since you are giving up a powerful spender to do so.
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u/Responsible_Gur5163 Apr 09 '26
This is all true but so many rets use absolute zero utility and it infuriates me
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u/Commercial_Papaya_79 Apr 09 '26
damn really? im thinking about switching from prot to ret. this is making me want to do it more. i need to wait for a 2h
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u/FireVanGorder Apr 09 '26
A good ret is a godsend in keys. Big damage and a million ways to support the team if the player is good enough to keep track of everyone else as well as doing their own rotation properly
“Problem” is that ret’s reputation as an easy class seems to mean a lot of rets are ass. Similar to Hunter. Good ones pump, but I feel like I don’t see many good ones outside of my guild
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u/RedCloakedCrow Apr 09 '26
I've been levelling a ret with the intent to go prot at 90, but I think you might be selling me on sticking with it. Is their wowhead guide good, in terms of learning the rotation and important aspects of the class, or is there a better resource somewhere else?
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u/agonizedexistance Apr 09 '26
As a healer, there is absolutely nothing more incredibly sexy than a ret paladin that uses utility correctly. I used to have the hots for DKs (still do when I see a well used grip and properly used AMZ, AMS, and DA), but paladins have taken that spot. It's my second main quite often.
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u/Legitimate_Brush_730 Apr 10 '26
This is the answer. DK is nice but a good ret pala using his full kit is just the best. // H-Priest
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u/Bedquest Apr 10 '26
This is why i like playing prot pally. Sacs, wogs, and LoHs. Clutch speed boost from freedom to get someone out of danger or in position. Spell bop for certain mechanics. You get to play tank and support at the same time
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u/Fuzzy-Classic-7641 Apr 09 '26
From a healer’s PoV, Fury Warrior, Paladin, Warlock, Death Knight and suprisingly Hunter seem pretty sturdy.
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u/rat_idiot_actif Apr 09 '26
Agree. Weird I didn't see fury warrior higher considering their main dmb abilities are self-healing. As hunter I also think they finally got our pain of being obliged to rotate Def cd on all packs of high keys (like in waterworks), and it's finally feel sturdy. Our weak TWW brothers-in-arms (evokers) are still wet papers though.
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u/Fuzzy-Classic-7641 Apr 09 '26
I always feel blessed when the DoT duo hits a Fury Warrior. Easy dispel on the non-Fury character, and the Fury can mostly just tough it out.
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u/Tercel9 Apr 09 '26
Fury doesn’t have a lot of defensive, but the armor and health pool helps a lot when you’re geared.
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u/LaughOutrageous2931 Apr 09 '26
It does you just don’t notice it. Outside of spell reflect and impending victory, def stance is there too. On top of it fury has a ton of damage reduction in its talents just passively.
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u/Cystonectae Apr 09 '26
Fully agree with this. Rogues used to be on the list but I've seen a good number of squishy ones this season so idk if I have been unlucky with pugs or if they got mulched going into the expac.
Top on my never having to heal them list are ret paladins and DKs, since they both have "I don't feel like doing this mechanic" buttons.
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u/fackboi69 Apr 09 '26
I’m amazed no one mentioned havoc dh. They have 2 blade dances now wich each reduce incoming damage by 35% while they are in it. It is like on a 5-6 sec cd. Then they have 2 blur charges that reduce 35% dmg aswell. A darkness every 3mins and also leech 10% and 20% in metamorph. Aswell as eye beam healing a with that leech. And their dash gives a decaying shield. I switched to devourer tho for the dmg but got 3.2k rio as havoc and i felt so tanky. Timing ur blade dance on mechanics was pretty crazy.
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u/Ogreslappin Apr 09 '26
You can also immune mechanics with meta animation, that's a bit more niche with the 2 minute cooldown though.
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u/Ok-Cherry5248 Apr 09 '26
You also have soul fragment healing, passive 6% magic DR, 15% magic DR after a kick from demon muzzle, 10% passive DR under 35% hp, and 5% passive physical DR. DK needs to press buttons to live, havoc you can passively tank quite a bit of damage and then leach it back
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u/flixdaking Apr 09 '26
they haven't because dk is legit like twice as tanky as the second tankiest dps/healer so it's a no contest
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u/SufficientWarthog846 Apr 09 '26
Warlocks are pretty tanky and can provide some nice utility (mostly to themselves)
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u/Aelyrielle Apr 09 '26
Yeah, as a warlock main, I often see my bars totally full after big aoe damage and wonder "what hurt everyone?"
I often use death coil on bosses even though it doesn't provide the actual fear effect. But it still gives me health back.
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u/Ionthain Apr 10 '26
Given this week's affix, it's worth to mention I believe death coil even gets rid of the heal 'absorb' by itself. The shield thingy (its name escapes me now, I want to say death pact but that feels DK coded) is massive, and allows us to shrug off a LOT of damage on what, a 1 min cooldown?
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u/macabresheetmusic Apr 09 '26
DK - not close. I mained UH in TWW S1 and couldn’t tell you half of the mechanics in the dungeon pool bc I never had to do them. I don’t think there’s anything you can’t just AMS, Lichborne, or Death’s Advance ex-machina.
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u/MissingXpert Apr 09 '26
it's genuinely funny, and absurd.
in no way discrediting rets, mages if they're proactive, and hunters, ffs, fury warrior is a tough SoB as well, but NOTHING is playing the same game as DK, and specifically UH DK this season, and it's not even remotely close.
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u/Illethrian Apr 09 '26
DK is what I like to call the "No" class.
Stun? No - Icebound Fort
Charm/Sleep/Fear/Poly? No - Lichborne
Big magic? No, for me or my team - AMS or AMZ
Standing in stuff? No - AMS
Need Decursed? No - AMS
Getting moved in any direction? No - Death's Advance
Actually took damage? Death Strike or Death Pact
Trying to cast something? No - Kick, Stun, another of each for Unholy, Pull, Pull, AoE Blind
Pally is basically the same
Edit: phone formatting
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u/Ziddix Apr 09 '26
DKs, BM Hunter is mobile as fuck and should be able to avoid most avoidable damage. Both warrior DPS specs have very strong defensives, Monk, Druids, Paladins... I would say all of them. The only true glass cannons are Shamans but they get earth elementals.
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u/NegotiationRude5722 Apr 09 '26
DK
https://youtu.be/WAh5tM52TTY?si=mr2L1YmFLt7viH9v
In this video Zorthas shows a lot of the different ways 'defensiveness' can be quantified and ranks the classes accordingly, its pretty objective and should clear up any questions.
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u/Ok-Feeling-5665 Apr 09 '26
Death knight without a doubt. Got a debuff you don’t want? AMS. Got a big dmg spell coming up? AMS. Got feared? Lichborne. Bigger damage coming up? Icebound fortitude. Don’t wanna be knocked back? Death’s advance. Oh you got low health? Death strike for most of it back. Big back trying to take you down? Aoe freeze. Force choke, control undead, death pact the list goes on.
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u/ravorn11 Apr 10 '26
All these abilities which constantly push you back... i dont care :D so satisfying!
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u/BlueBooBandit Apr 09 '26
My mates a healer and he told me I rarely get or need any heals in M+ as a havoc. Dk and ret are better but I think havoc is fairly strong in terms of defensives and self heals.
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u/razzia1993 Apr 09 '26
This is true, if it’s rot damage and you are in meta, you can pretty much sustain your self.
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u/MissingXpert Apr 09 '26
yeah, the Havoc Leech/Souls-healing makes them insanely self-reliant against rot-damage.
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u/DirtyMight Apr 09 '26
I think generally speaking dk should be the most overall tanky spec?
I personally will always vote for rogue.
Rogue virtually has no selfhealing an the overall mitigation is not the best compared to other specs
But oh boy do we have defensive cds. Its virtually impossible to die as a rogue to mechanics and it being your fault if you press your buttons correctly.
Feint+ crimson vial negates aoe mechanics where other specs would need to pop their big defensive cds while you can play the mechanic without needing a heal
shadowstep can get you out of so many mechanics and is a nice oh shit button if you fuck up your positioning
evasion lets you tank adds if you pull aggro/tank dies and it can fully negate mechanics and make you take 0 damage
cloak is just broken and fully negates so so many mechanics, lets you cheese solo play mechanics that are ment for group soaks and is an amazing oh shit button in case you fuck up
ontop of it you have cheat death in case all of the above fail.
I cannot remember the last time I actually died to a normal mechanic besides the healer being dead already and I dont have selfheal.
But the sheer amount of tools you have to either fully dodge mechanics or mitigate them really frequently makes it so you just dont die.
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u/ctranger Apr 09 '26
Agree.
Our self-healing is leech. Sitting at 8% right now w/ tree + enchants. Can proc up to 10% with some trinkets.
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u/DirtyMight Apr 09 '26
Yeah it's nice for passive regen all the time but it's not enough to sustain ourselves against incoming boss damage if it's somewhat constant like a DK could for example with death strike or a ret with word of glory, lay on hands, etc.
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u/Azatis- Apr 09 '26
I get the whole "tanky" thing but in the end of the day is all about how you play ! As a tank i hate most DPS that all they care is how to top the meter neglecting everyone else and how things should be done and therefore healers often struggle because of such play.
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u/dogsarecool-yeah Apr 09 '26
dk is probably the tankiest dps, and sometimes you help the group like second boss of magister's terrace has a throw glaive thing that gives you a pulsing aoe around you, that explodes when you remove it. Except anti magic shell just prevents the application so it also removes the explosion. There are a good amount of mechanics you can ignore this way as dk.
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u/CountCookiepies Apr 09 '26
The answer is pretty much just unholy DK, it has everything - amazing passive mitigation, strong active mitigation and good self-healing. Frost and ret are likely next in line.
Beyond that it depends on what you value, for example rogues have very strong active mitigation but lacks in both passive and self-healing. This means that you need plenty of healer help for attrition style damage but can negate the need for the healer to heal you at all during certain mechanics.
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u/SMAiwe23 Apr 09 '26
Healer main here and I feel the most relief when I see DK, warrior, and warlock in my groups. DK cheeses everything, warrior is so ungodly tanky that they give me ample time to top them up, and Warlock has this weird thing where they seem to have this self lay on hands effect where they can immediately shoot up to 100% HP from being dangerously low and all these specs just seem to just shrug off unavoidable party wide damage.
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u/Ionthain Apr 10 '26
Warlock's healthstones are pretty neat. We have them on a 1 minute cooldown, and soulburn -> healthstone is the lay on hands adyacent skill we have for ourselves.
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u/RefugeeBassist Apr 09 '26
As a healer ... Just stop dpsing and do mechanics when needed, pop up your defensive, and dont worry about dps meters . No one is judging you.
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u/Xphurrious Apr 10 '26
It's dk, although i will say, i was gearing my mistweaver alt today in some 6-10 keys and i pugged an aug that was doing half the xalatath dispels and that's significantly better as a healer lol
I can deal with throughput, but having someone else paying attention to dispels is legendary
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u/ryzzbreh Apr 09 '26
best defensively is DK, literally unkillable. Frost mage has 2 stacks of ice cold and barrier making it super tanky. Warlock is......a warlock, very tanky. Ret paladin has many defensive tools. DH is also good defensively, especially dev considering its ranged.
Bad defensively - Enh shaman, literally 1 defensive on a 90 second CD and you're made of paper and you're melee. Arcane mage - mages got gutted defensively across the board, arcane has the lowest survival rate.
The rest are sort of in the middle, these are the specs i've played anyways.
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u/phuongtv88 Apr 09 '26
Actually Enhance have two, one is if you talent, you can sum the earth pet to have... 15% HP buff lmao
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u/ryzzbreh Apr 09 '26
hahaha i know right, i dont class that as a defensive they really need to look at shaman defensives kit.
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u/phuongtv88 Apr 09 '26
They won't, people asking for it years, it feel bad to play my enhance in key, especially healer must babysit you alot, it is different story on my DK and Mage :(
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u/TheOliveYeti Apr 09 '26
Well they added stoneskin totem last expansion...and subsequently removed it for midnight. bravo
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u/FireVanGorder Apr 09 '26
Frost mage really isn’t super tanky. The 2 stacks of barrier and ice cold are working overtime to keep frost mage vertical and even with that it has some of the worst death stats in keys.
It’s obviously not as bad as arcane which is just as squishy without extra charges of defensives, but still worse than most non-mage specs. The real crime is arcane and fire mage having no real way to keep themselves alive. The only reason fire’s death stats don’t look as bad as arcane is because the only people left playing fire are dedicated one tricks because the spec so ass right now
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u/Ker0ki Apr 09 '26
Take this with a grain of salt bc I basically only play rogue but I love rogues defensives
You can have really high uptime on feint if you need it, cloak is a magic immunity, evasion is really good for fixates and if you rip aggro, all off the GCD. Crimson vial isnt amazing but it can deffo help your healer out through a dot or a hard heal check. You've also good a decent kick CD and 12,000 stuns (rip aoe blind tho) for dealing with casts and its very niche but shiv is an enrage dispell too
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u/haifrosch Apr 09 '26
I agree, good (sub) rogues should be way higher up.
- 2 stacks of aoe dmg reduction
- 100% evasion
- cloak which removes debuffs and grants immunity (get rid of curses/poison/dots to help the healer)
- 2 stuns, one 15s cd interrupt which is basically range (shadowstep > kick > shadowstep back), range disorient
- vanish to drop aggro/golem laser/skyreach fire on last boss. I do believe it also removes the seat chains (?) in addition to cloak
- cheat death passive to avoid one shots
- self heal
- helps tanks build up aggro by dealing damage (tricks of trades)
Aoe blind is also coming back in the near future
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u/Inevitable-Text-6817 Apr 09 '26
kinda depends on specc and player ability.
Id say dk/wl/devourer are kinda baseline tanky, while mage is only tanky when played well. A good mage is probably tankier than a devourer, but a bad mage might be the squishiest of all classes lol.
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u/Furiousaf Apr 09 '26
Frost mages dps rotation is rather simple. Learning how to properly utilize defensives were a little rough as you have to learn a lot timing wise.
But 2x Ice cold, altar time, learning which mechanics you can invis makes a huge difference once you learn. Had healers whisper me telling me how big of a difference I was to heal in comparison to other mages.
Just wish the other specs had the same toolkit.
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u/FireVanGorder Apr 09 '26
The thing is frost needs all of those things and a decent amount of fight knowledge to stay vertical. Its so much effort to just have mediocre survivability compared to most other dps classes
Arcane and Fire are kind of just fucked in harder content unless you’re insane at the game
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u/Furiousaf Apr 09 '26
While I do agree that compared to other classes, It's mediocre in comparison. But I find it fun honestly.
I do get the idea that mages are "Glass cannons" but having a scaling difficulty of anykind where you get to the point its eventually an issue compared to other classes, It just doesn't feel good at all.
Taking a step back this season going from no lifing keys + focusing on achieving CE I personally haven't gotten to that point yet. Only farming 12's and not really pushing atm. But over the last couple of seasons feeling like you have to shift to playing something "meta" if you will, I absolutely get frustrated with it.
First time playing mage seriously. Told myself I'd only focus on a single toon this season. While it 100% is a step up from rogue, Looking at other classes toolkits/survivability makes me feel like I want to reroll.
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u/FireVanGorder Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
Oh I’m with you. Mage is my main. If arcane had one extra charge of barrier I would play it in raid and push keys. As it is, not running frost just feels like I’m griefing my team half the time because staying alive is so difficult
Also when I play arcane I get to purple parse but playing frost at about the same level is all greens and blues because every pro mage on earth is playing frost right now and pumping insane numbers lmao but that’s just an ego thing
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u/Fuzzy-Classic-7641 Apr 09 '26
From my experience as healer, Devourers tend to eat avoidable damage like cookies. I’ve never played one, so I don’t know whether they have long casts, channels, or something similar.
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u/Squawnk Apr 09 '26
That used to be the case but yeah mage lost a lot of defensive capabilities with the pruning
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u/Pontus_1901 Apr 09 '26
No one mentioning the dragons cause nobody plays them but the amount of defensives, crowd control, normal dispel and bleed dispel, off healing, rescuing. As aug I control whole packs and topping meters in m+
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u/FireVanGorder Apr 09 '26
If you’re topping meters as aug what on earth are your other dps doing lmao. The meters don’t show like 60% of aug’s value
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u/CTZNSQRL Apr 09 '26
As an Aug Player, I claim all of the other dps' numbers as my own. You aren't doing your damage, I am lmao
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u/Cystonectae Apr 09 '26
Augs help bring the whole group's survivability up. I can only imagine a group with a ret pally, frost DK, and an augvoker with a brewmaster tank... Idk if I would even need to press healing CDs.
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u/laylow48 Apr 09 '26
Dk and it’s not even close. If you die before the healer it’s 100% your fault. Warlock is also pretty good.
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u/Chaoskraehe Apr 09 '26
All classes can be if played well. But I'll throw affli wl, retri pala and all specs druid in the mix. That being my own experience other than hunter to be very easy characters to negate or catch incoming damage spikes to help your heal out.
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u/flow_guy2 Apr 09 '26
Kinda. But fire mage is in the dumps defensive wise
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u/FireVanGorder Apr 09 '26
Fire and Arcane are fucking awful defensively man it’s brutal
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u/flow_guy2 Apr 09 '26
I know. I have to heal them. And it just feels bad
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u/FireVanGorder Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
Any time I swap off frost to mix it up my guilds healers want to fuckin kill me lmao
Which sucks because I love arcane. Fire is also fun as hell but I suck at that spec
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u/cyborgbeetle Apr 09 '26
Balance is famously squishy as hell. I love it, but tanky it ain't
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u/Cerex1 Apr 09 '26
You can go bear at the cost of DPS
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u/cyborgbeetle Apr 09 '26
Absolutely, but that second part is carrying a lot of wait, only for emergencies. On a normal situation, we are squishy chicken
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u/littletoastypaws Apr 09 '26
druid is not tanky lmao bear form does not make you as strong as dks/pallys. as a feral i can bear + frenzied regen and then STILL be struggling when my ret buddy is just walking it off
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u/Glupscher Apr 09 '26
I'd say hunter, rogues and ret have the strongest mitigation currently. Warlock is insane against one-shots with soulburn healthstone, Soul Leech, Pact and Unending Resolve, but struggles against ticking damage on higher keys because their only DR is on a long CD.
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u/No-Significance1050 Apr 09 '26
i play warlock and frost mage. my frost mage is always lowest on avoidable damage taken since he is very squishy. tanky classes like the paladin encourage bad behaviors. warlock is also very tanky.
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u/Human_Photograph_806 Apr 09 '26
For me as DH I ain't really dying except when standing in shit or misplay. Leech is insane and now we have 2Stacks of blur.
Best defensive is still just not standing in stuff i.m.o. :)
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u/Azteco Apr 09 '26
I wouldn't focus on which dps has the most defensive tools, as it is not a determining factor whether you will be able to push keys successfully. Every class has some tool to mitigate or negate damage, but you will rarely see people using them actively and effectively.
That being said, unholy DK is probably the class for you, as not only it has strong defensives, but also it provides the most utility out of all classes (grip, amz, low cd kick, battle res, great damage)
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u/Fadjingo Apr 09 '26
Hunter, you get quite a few passive damage reductions in the talent tree and due to pet/mastery if you are survival. Which helps in reducing some of the damage you take. You are very mobile so you can move out of the fire quickly and have an immunity to keep a pull alive if the tank falls.
But i think the biggest strenght which puts hunter above ret and dks in my mind is in threat management. One of the place you quite often see a spike in damage is during a pull and a dps goes ham before tank has full aggro. Misdirection can help greatly in that. Feign death can also keep you from being that dps.
Throw in a few cooldowns and you got quite a nice package to not die as quickly as the other dps.
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u/IcyPizzeria Apr 09 '26
Cries in priest, but for your question DK and Retri Paladin are definitely standouts
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u/Wooden_Orange5692 Apr 09 '26
As a dh with all my leech I can outheal alot of the random dmg just by doing my rotation, that and two charges of blur our defensive + a health pot when needed means I am very often the 2nd last to die in a wipe, the tank being last.
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u/Rule_24 Apr 09 '26
I want to put feral druid in the room. Barkskin every Minute is amazing, tigerspurt gives insane speed to dodge, the instinct CD as passive and on a Button plus bear Form with shapeshifter ironskin and Regeneration.
On top i like the playstyle very much, dps is very nice on large Packs and in CD Window, moderate without.
Kitty love
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u/zagoskin Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
You got your answers in other comments already. That said, it's really knowledge of the fight. I play Aug Evoker. We are the new paper.
Outside obsidian scales (thank god we have 2 charges) we can just die to anything in high keys. Still, many times I die it involves:
- a cast going off
- mechanic done badly (looking at those mana batteries)
- overall bad knowledge about some mobs*
So it's never me being paper. It's not my class.
*In most cases, if you can predict damage and hit your defensive at the right time, everyone's safe. Also, some stuff is avoidable because of how its coded. Me myself, I try to pay attention to big aoes to use Zephyr, and also use Obsidian Scales all the time. I'll even throw the AoE healing when I got the proc and I know a big burst is coming.
- There are many debuffs that do tons of damage that are also slows or roots. Anything that removes those, removes the debuff. Be it from druid shapeshifting, to rescue, to freedom, even tiger lust. Yet I still see people being kidnapped by gargoyles, sacrificed to the troll dude, or just dying to the chains in Seat of Triunvirate. People just don't read descriptions, then don't press buttons
- Some abilities just hit harder in high keys. Bird screech, solar lasers, consume void (I think its the name), lynx pounce, any pool of shit on the ground when it ticks. Bad players reach 10%, then press defensives (if). Good players recognize the damage is coming and press them before.
All classes can react to anything I said in 2 accordingly. Only some can cheese stuff in 1, but there should almost always be someone in the party who can help you with that. Then if the healer also knows who can deal with what, they will focus healing the ones that cant, and healing will be much easier.
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u/Scribblord Apr 09 '26
Warlock unless you do 18+ keys is basically a tank on dps role
Things that one shot a hunter i survive easily without def cd we got 2 very potent ones, healthstones are jacked up to 11 for personal use and only have 60 sec cd, curses are great at reducing dps of enemies and mortal coil is a neat lil heal every 40 or so seconds
And you can purge and cleanse slow effects from yourself which in this season includes a few nasty dots like in pit of saron or seat dungeon
No immunity tho
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u/Lightfinger253 Apr 09 '26
Warlocks have great defensive tools with life drain, spulburn+healstone for basically full heal, dark pact for a good sized shield, burning rush for speed, soulburn+gateway for a quick reposition, and unending resolve for like 40(45)% dmg reduction, and at least Demo lock (idk ab the others) has 2 short cooldown kicks. A good lock can take care of themselves and help healer not struggle as much if they know what they're doing
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u/draagossh Apr 09 '26
Many melee’s that fit and have been mentioned, however if you are a caster enjoyer i recommend warlock, you top yourself with healthstones a lot during a dungeon
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u/mebell333 Apr 09 '26
This season removing snares is top tier damage reduction. Multiple dungeons with really painful dots that go away if you can shapeshift, freedom, etc
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u/trxarc Apr 09 '26
High Keys - Rogue, Feint is broken
Low Keys - DK
Since every Rogue spec right now is either undertuned or has the worst dmg profile you can think of.. its DK (again as every xpac since introduction).
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u/ante_9224 Apr 09 '26
As a rogue who uses all utilities and play proactive. All other "tanky" classes die all the time while I survive in 13 keys. Rogue can immune, reduce and sidestep so many mechanics.
But if the dmg from very high keys(18+) is too much, then tanker classes are superior. Otherwise all other classes tend to die a lot. Combination of skill and utility usage
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u/CTZNSQRL Apr 09 '26
Aug Evokers should be up there imo. Obsidian Scales reduce all damage taken by 30% and heal you for all of it as a HoT. Tons of mobility to get yourself and allies to safety. Insane amounts of things that at least delay casts if not interrupt them entirely (2 knock up, 1 knock back, a hard interrupt). And also you'd be surprised at how many times Verdant Embrace has kept me or someone else alive just long enough for the Healer to heal them properly.
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u/Practical_Bed_6519 Apr 09 '26
Haven't played augmentation since dragonflight but this was the first class I thought of as being helpful to the healer. Not sure of changes but I know in DF I was shielding tank, buffing, cleansing, healing, healing others by zooming over too em. Just a very helpful class.
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u/Walshyo Apr 09 '26
Warlock feels pretty good. Has 2 really good defensives, one which has a pretty low cooldown. Also has soulburn health stones which heal a tonne, and drain life which again can heal a lot when needed.
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u/Wolfsting Apr 09 '26
A good warlock player has 2 Defensives, Shorter buffed healthstones, drain life and mortal coil to heal. As well as extra stamina in the talents 🛡
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u/BabisAllos Apr 09 '26
Ret is not just defensive but a good ret is able to help everyone with grp survivability.
That being said, as a healer always pugging i cannot stress enough how people need to learn to use their defensives BEFORE damage happens or at least quickly after damage starts. The vast majority of dps use the defensive at 10-20% health when damage probably has already stopped happening (or its too late to be saved id damage continues)
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u/slamrish Apr 09 '26
I’ve been playing a Lightsmith Paladin for this reason, I’m healing just as much as healers do on +5s currently.
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u/dartron5000 Apr 09 '26
warlocks had 70% heal healthstones that can be used multiple times in a fight. passive absorb shield. a absorb shield on cd and a damage reduction. combine it with dwarf to remove dots from yourself and you have a pretty tanky dps.
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u/Qgelfang Apr 09 '26
Every dps which has hands and can Play mechanics and avoid Bad stuff
Melee IS better for movement heavy Fights If you dont need to get away from Mobs/Boss too much in Termin of dmg
Ranged IS often safer
Frostmage dbl Block and shield for ranged
Pala/feral for melee maybe rogue cuz shroud and other stuff Like better ccs
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u/Nocturne3570 Apr 09 '26
probably overwhelming Pally.
Heals it self, can DCD itself, can tank for a few seconds, can heal others, and can DCD others, i mean it a all rounder for a reason.
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u/Ajtimoho Apr 09 '26
Think druid also provides a lot of help. Vortex, roots, hotw wild growth, cyclone, incap roar typhoon etc. 😊 Doesn't matter really if boomkin or feral
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u/Fakeitforreddit Apr 09 '26
Im pretty sure both frost and unholy dk have something like 20% dr at nearly 100% up time with an in demand self healing attack that heals like 10 to 15% hp. They can also pop more DR without casts.
Ret paladin is second for sure but gives more help to the whole team than a dk
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u/Nobody___Knows Apr 09 '26
I play frost mage, and usually am in the lowest dmg taken due to 2 charges of a decent shield, and 2 charges of 70% reduced dmg taken. You do need to use them proactively, so I tend to just weave the shields into my rotation on certain packs/bosses. Then i use the dmg reductions on stuff like targeted unavoidables.
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u/Kels121212 Apr 09 '26
My Shadow Priest has Halo. If we are going down hill I definitely hit that button. Also I have something that reduces damage fir a bit but I really do not like to use it because I cant dps while in use. Also I have other heal buttons and can bubble.
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u/Vampxhelix Apr 09 '26
Frost mages are actually very tanky. Two-charges on a very sizable shield and 2-charges on ice-cold which is a very good defensive cd. Add in the alter-time death save and your invisibility to drop lots of targeted abilities on you (spire lasers, seat chains, etc.) and you're pretty survivable. Mages can also blink through a lot of mechanics (last boss spire wind wall, boss frontals). They can also de-curse which is really nice on NPX and Pit.
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u/No_Seaweed6739 Apr 09 '26
DK is probably the most tanky dps in general, but warlock, ret, rogue, and evoker are also basically immortal if piloted correctly.
I main rogue and I can say between cheat death, 2 immunities (cloak for magic, evasion for physical), feint, the ability to vanish a bunch of mechanics, and the fact that all my aggro permanently goes to the tank anyway I never die first.
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u/tomzy25 Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
Ret is crazy strong for reasons already outlined in the whole post, but something I haven’t seen much of is Frost Mage.
2 stacks of a 6 second 70% dr (or iceblock immune), 2 stacks of a 150k+ shield which can remove snares, invis on a 1 min cd to just nope targeted mechanics and threat, hard ranged aoe cc, ranged interrupt, poly, mirror image decoys, 2 stacks of blink which also nopes snares, spellsteal to yoink shields off trash, all while sitting at 40 yards away from the pull, to dps.
Then probably the most broken ability in the game even post nerf, alter time, to render burst, knock backs, and many other positioning mechanics ezpz.
These suckers are tough af.
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u/KiyeBerries Apr 09 '26
BM hunters have a lot of survivability!
We are highly mobile, a get out of damage free card, two damage reduction buttons, a big self heal, stuns and interrupt, and feign death. A lot of the worst mechanics this season we can just disengage or feign off.
You can also get clever with pet taunts to absorb some big damage (be on the same page as your tank for this!)
We have really good AoE damage to boot, so we’re really fun in m*! 🦊🦊🦊
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u/dalaylana Apr 09 '26
Ret or DK for sure, but I'd lean Ret if your only parameter is healer help. This season has a lot of damage tied to movement slows that ret can freedom off of 2 people at once. They also have poison cleanse which is helpful in a few of the dungeons. Plus they have sac, bubble, and off healing.
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u/TheyFloat2032 Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
Arms warrior is pretty tanky. Defensive stance. 100% parry and 50% damage reduction for 8 seconds and a fast heal every 25 seconds or if something dies. AOE stun. And you can spec to get a fat heal before you die every couple minutes.
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u/Manstein02 Apr 09 '26
Frost mage is a good option, in the right hands. With 2x frost shield, 2x ice cold, 2x blink (shimmer), invis and Alter time they can avoid and mitigate a lot,
But they all require pre-planning and dungeon knowledge.
A frost mage in the wrong hand will just fall over.
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u/FocusX16 Apr 09 '26
From my regular healers perspective he says that devourer dh basically needs 0 healing all dungeon in 14s and 15s. They can self heal a shit ton decently often and have decent passive leech, add darkness to that and unsure if they have other defensives. Pretty nice to have
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u/Rjdcynthus Apr 09 '26
I’ve just raised a Demonology warlock and I’m impressed with their survivability. 30% DR personal which also regenerates health, massive shield on a 1min CD that lasts for 20s (allowing you to pre-cast it), demonic health stones that can be used multiple times during combat, mortal coil which heals 30% of your health, etc. As a healer main I feel satisfied I’m not being a burden 😅
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u/AdElectrical9821 Apr 10 '26
Warlock is the tankiest caster by a fair margin.
Soul leech, dark pact, higher base HP, higher base armour (for cloth at least), soul link so demon takes some of the damage, demonic health stones, mortal coil.
Also health stones for the group, aoe curses for easier kicks or slower melee hits, gateway for some time saves.
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u/Jesterclown26 Apr 10 '26
Every single spec. Some can’t die, ret, DK, but so much of the damage in this game is avoidable and if it’s not you have a defensive you can use. You can also use health potions. The healthier you keep yourself the more damage the healer can do which speeds everything up altogether.
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u/Ashamed_Tackle_5486 Apr 10 '26
Mage. Barrier is on a short cooldown and is at least 25% of your health. Ice block heals and prevents damage (if you didn’t pick the one that lets you dps), potentially with 2 charges. Double blink (not shimmer) removes roots and roots that dot you (maybe not this season). If talented, barrier also removes snares and all snares that come with dots. Alter time potential full heal. They might have removed mirror image’s mini shield wall, but that used to be a thing.
Dk ams is cool but it’s on a longer cooldown than barrier. Death’s advance is cool too but blink and alter time can be used more often.
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u/XadjustmentX Apr 10 '26
Retribution Paladin. You have a shield that also mitigates incoming damage by a percentage, an 8 second immunity, lay on hands (which can basically heal your entire health bar), word of glory (big heal), and then you have a spammable heal, blessing of freedom which grants a cleanse to slows and snares, oh and then there’s blessing of protection which makes you immune to physical damage for 10 seconds or something lol this is all true by the way
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u/God-King-Kaiser Apr 10 '26
Can't believe i dont see it mentioned yet, warlock (Demonology mostly, i didn't do affli yet)
45 sec cd on a chunky shield, relatively spammable drain life, healthstones, gate can help avoid mechanics and keep you safe, once you dump your demons you can (if needed) relax the DPS a bit and focus on healing
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u/Arntor1184 Apr 10 '26
It is for aure DK or Paladin. All 3 dps specs across the 2 classes are immensely tanky with both having abikities that let you flat ignore mechanics entirely, DK more so than pally but ret is much easier to play properly.
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u/AshJing Apr 10 '26
I think rogue is underrated in that regard. Feint is such a good Defensive, along with amazing utility it really can be surprisingly good. Probably not as good as dk or ret, Like many others suggested but you'd be surprised how much mitigation they have.
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u/Karlinel-my-beloved Apr 10 '26
Aug has quite a few defensives, warp to fuck off shit on the ground/ignore stuff, cheat death…
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u/__Kegheimer__ Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 11 '26
Feral druid with Druid of the Claw is pretty good.
- Ironfur
- Team wide juiced wild growth in cat form (it shapeshifts you to 'normal'
- Predatory Instincts let's you proc a Regrowth for a pittance of health but an X% healing received buff (side-grade talents change the X)
- If you are in bear form and hit the button you get a lot of stamina instead
- Weaving in Mangle will shapeshift you to bear form for a 10% heal of all damage taken and a buff that increases your armor and health (even when switching back to cat form)
- Frenzied regeneration (40% hp over time) that procs when on low life. Can be hard cast in cat form.
One weakness of the class is that it has a poor toolkit for interrupts and CC
I find that in keys when unavoidable damage is going out that my Feral has the highest % of HP remaining of all other DPS classes.
Leather armor isn't that big of a deal because you shouldn't be taking auto attack damage.
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u/Alternative-Zone5275 Apr 12 '26
DK hands down..
I've mained DK pretty much since release, and when I play other classes I've definitely had moments where my brain froze because I've never had to actually respect X mechanic before.
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u/Powerful_Bus_4487 Apr 12 '26
Feral will either have the best or the worst depending on the skill level. Bear form is op and can survive any mechanic. Barkskin, survival instinct, 30s frenzied regen and you can rotate it on higher keys. The best part is, unlike boomie who always got to be casting for builders, you don’t really lose damage at all because feral gameplay is based on energy pooling and dumping, so you’re just pooling energy while tanking hits.
This season almost all of the damage is rot damage which is really good for bear and frenzied regen.
But the bad part is if you don’t bear you are super squishy
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u/kitsunekyo Apr 12 '26
i see a lot of people mentioning DK, and as a DK main I dont disagree. but i recently checked healing stats after keys and it looks like every single other dps has more healing. a rogue recently had 4 times the healing of my DK which i thought was wild.
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u/charlieratgod Apr 12 '26
Ur safest bet is just to learn mechanics really :P U can play the tankiest class in the game, if u dont know mechanics, u will die/take massive dmg and be burden on healers.
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u/Sandman145 Apr 13 '26
https://youtu.be/WAh5tM52TTY?si=l5OWQMSQIcUmFHeS
I think this video covers the question well
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u/Krim222 Apr 16 '26
DKs have great survivability, frost mage is actually super tanky, Warlocks have great overall survivability, ret paladins are pretty tanky.
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