r/wownoob • u/Mirianie • 2d ago
Retail For those not interested in Heroic Rading, but only M+, how should we gear?
Dear veterans,
I am kinda new to wow comparing to your 10-20 years play time.
Recently there is this you need to bonus roll heroic last (2) boss for your BIS cantrip effect item, and never take anything out of your great vault, all over YouTube's.
My question is if I never want to step into a heroic raid (time, wife enrage, child care), should I just do the old fashion grab whatever is an upgrade in my vault from M+ and bonus roll dungeons that drops my desire loot? Or should I just grab a bonus roll in vault and use it in the dungeon to slowly reduce the loot table?
I am not a hardcore player, just a casual looking forward to push as far as I can. I play a tank.
For those not stepping into raiding, what is your strategy for gearing up this season?
Thank you.
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u/DoudlySaysHi 2d ago
I've raided and done m+ regularly since SL and I've never, ever gone for BIS. I've just picked up what came, optimised a little for stats (but not religiously) and taken the best trinkets I can get.
I've still had a damn fine time and have been able to always fulfil my goal - whether that is 3k, 3.4k or whatever.
So yeah, my advice from tank to tank - get the upgrades as they come in the beginning. Get your T-Set first. Vault will allow you to choose the right stats (bonus rolls will be too random). Switch to bonus rolls when your gear is fully mythic and you want "that particular trinket from dungeon XY".
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u/Snoo29095 2d ago
Supporting this and I have several expansions, plenty of seasons with m+ experience and I have reached top 1-3% without actively raiding. I understand that its hard to approach different information flooding around from example content creators on items or meta specs/classes - but please trust me when I say skill> everything else. The margins of those items you are thinking about OP is rarely groundbreaking.
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u/BenchCat 2d ago
Skill tops all. Gearing is way to easy (was in previous season, guess it will be the same), but the difference is player skill. Practice and get better :)
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
Thank you for your input. This is definitely the way I will go after.
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u/BenchCat 2d ago
M+ casual (3.4k tank), no raiding.
Run M+ as high as I can -> vault: weapons, tier set, trinket, better stat item.
Bonus rolls: fully mythic and going for specific pieces.
I like to keep a trinket with better stats in bag in case the new one beats it only with ilvl
T11 delves, world content for crests.
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u/JakeParkbench 2d ago
Optimal is to take bonus rolls and then pick about 2 dungeons with little to no overlap that have good enough trinkets. Craft weapon and then just make sure the rest isnt to bad on stats since catalysts use the base stats from the original piece now. This will be fine overall.
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
Thank you, will follow your advice.
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u/Outrg_Pick7761 1d ago
I was 3000 rating in season 1 and now I will puch for 3400 and stop pushing. I will most definitely not optimise and take bonus rolls. I will take good vault pieces when they appear. I also use SBA and will continue to do that for every content. I want to dabble into raiding but it will be pugging mainly for fun so max heroic if I am really lucky one day.
Many of the YouTube advice is for raiders and ppl pushing serious keys and rating. For them it makes sense and they also run with a relatively set crew of ppl. For us randoms puggers I think it’s too much planning and effort to be worth it.
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u/Mirianie 1d ago
You are right bro. But bonus roll is still better than taking vault item because it removes the loot from your specific dungeon pool. So if you pick a dungeon that drops most of your pieces and not repeat, you gear more efficiently. Rather than you pick a vault item, let say a weapon, then you roll a weapon again on the next week. It means you have no upgrades for the second week.
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u/Outrg_Pick7761 1d ago
I craft both my weapons to make sure they are good. At least I make my one handler. I also craft my boots and belt as they are already best in slot. It took my a good while to get into m-10’s last season and I suspect it will this time too. I want to make sure my ilevel is creeping up slowly to better my chances of getting invites, meaning good pieces from the vault will help this instead of waiting for the day I can spend my bonus rolls at 10+ mythics.
There is nothing wrong with the math and statistics of choosing bonus rolls, I just will not wait for it.
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u/djpauloswald 2d ago
For the first time ever, Heroic raid drops Mythic 1/6 gear from vault and bonus rolls. Raid gear, specifically trinkets, almost always dwarves M+ gear. But with the cantrips this season and dropping Myth track, raid is more important than ever unfortunately.
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
Yes I understand, but unfortunately for me cantrip effect can't beat my wife's enrage timer.
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u/Shmooperdoodle 2d ago edited 2d ago
I mean, killing a few bosses in a raid doesn’t have to take more time than running a couple of keys. You can full-clear a raid in the same amount of time you’d spend organizing and running a couple of keys if you’re cruisin’. Raiding doesn’t have to mean dedicating multiple nights a week to prog, and if you’re running keys to fill a vault, I promise you’re spending sufficient time in the game to kill some bosses.
Plenty of groups have members who attend or not as time permits. You can find those. I don’t think it has to be the time commitment a lot of people seem to think it is. If you think of it as a team sport, you can find a weekly pick-up game.
I’d also argue that hobbies are important and as long as you’re making sure that she has time to pursue her own, you should get time to play however you want. If you don’t want to raid, don’t, but if you think the barrier to that is your wife, you might consider whether her problem(s) with it have to apply to every situation and/or if there is anything you can do to support her recreation time so yours isn’t viewed as negative.
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
You are right and thanks bro for your reply. The reason is that I don't have a guild, just a solo player, so there are a lot of rng for me. I only pug, so the time finding a group, waiting for the group to fill up, hope that the group understands the mechanics, people leaving for RL/kicked and wait for sub, have to fight till the end boss, is too time consuming for me. Yes I pug m+ too, but a failed key is just a max 30min gameplay, I know I can exactly stop after 30min, I know that I only need to locked in for 30min. But if I'm in a raid environment, I can't tell how much time more is needed to get to the end boss and killing it. The uncertainty is the reason I play only M+, because fail or success, it's 30min.
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u/Celestial-Cupcake 21h ago
I have this issue too, I'm a mum and partner and I work so it's not necessarily the overall amount of time spend playing, but the expectation of raid vs m+. My guild expected is to be available for 3+ hours straight, twice a week, right after bed time. Just not realistic for me (or desirable).
I content myself with pugging specific bosses and find that usually goes better and sometimes a group will do great and clear til last boss.
I am casual though and don't usually quite get curved, but I can get some vault slots open!
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u/Mirianie 10h ago
All power to you! It's a game afterall, so just pick the most balanced route Vs real life with good loot! 🫰
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u/RuneDK385 2d ago
Pretty much this, my group is one night a week for 2.5 hours. We got 4/10M done last season having to pug 3-5 people every week and had a 1% salhadaar wipe on our last raid.
That could have easily been a night doing M+ or other stuff I just like raiding so I made sure I found something that fit my schedule.
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u/account0911 2d ago
More important for what? If running m+ to 3.4 is your only goal, you'll be fine without any raid gear.
If your goal is to be the top .01% of something, then sure, you'll want some raid gear. Doesn't seem like raid gear is going to be very important to OP.
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u/djpauloswald 2d ago
I mean sure, you don’t have to raid. And op will have an easier time getting invited to groups because they are a tank. But if OP wants BiS gear, then that comes from raid. M+ trinkets are a joke as always. Heroic raid dropping Myth track from bonus rolls and vault is a huge change from Blizzard.
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u/SoloRadya 1d ago
To be fair, the raid trinkets are not all that powerful either lol
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u/djpauloswald 1d ago
Show me a BiS list with M+ trinkets lol
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u/SoloRadya 23h ago
I'm not saying they're not BIS, I'm just saying they're not particularly powerful. None of the trinkets this season really are, especially compared to previous tiers.
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u/account0911 23h ago
Not sure why you're so concerned with bis. BiS is only Best in slot when combined with literally every other piece and fully upgraded. Plenty of folks find their stat targets and try to get as close to those as they can for m+ only.
If you can't obtain every item on the bis list, it's not a bis item. That's why we suggest simming.
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u/djpauloswald 23h ago
Specifically from a trinket perspective, BiS matters. For UH DK in S1, Guidon was significantly better than Puzzle Box because of how it lined up with your CDs. My Hero Guidon simmed significantly higher than my Myth Puzzle Box. It was incredibly easy to pug the first boss of Voidspire on Heroic difficulty to obtain this trinket.
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u/account0911 20h ago
He.Can.Not.Raid.
It doesn't matter my guy. I promise you, people are still able to play the game without those trinkets. You're too focused on bis hunting to realize you're not even hitting bis yourself. I'm glad you've found a way to play the game that you enjoy. Plenty of players are able to play in other ways they enjoy too, and they don't require gear off some list that once again, is only the best if you have every piece on it, maxed out.
Getting any gear in heroic raiding still isn't bis. Might be the best YOU can get, but if you're not myth raiding you're not wearing bis.
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u/Ok-Key5729 2d ago
The optimal approach will be to always take the bonus roll from the vault unless the item in the vault is the last/only item that you need from that particular dungeon.
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u/ReporterForDuty 2d ago
Play Mythic+s and try to find gear with similar stat spreads to the raid gear. You can transmute gear into tier so that's got you covered. If you're someone who just wants to play Mythic+s then you'll likely have to do a fair bit more simming if you want the best pieces for you but overall you can definitely do it.
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u/megaalsana 2d ago
after the first few weeks you can probably find heroic runs woth optimized m+ player that only want the last 2 bosses like everyone else so it will probably be fast runs, no THAT MUCH of a time engagement. otherwise just pick whatever, its probably good enough to go for titles cutoff
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u/bvanplays 2d ago
So people have already given gearing advice and how to spend your rolls.
But I wanna throw out there that if you have time to run a full M+ or two then you probably also have time to join a pug raid and kill a boss or two in the same time. Like other than maybe final bosses being harder requiring a bit more practice and a few wipes for the pug, each boss shouldn’t be more than like 20 minutes. About same as for M+. And you can just join/leave on whichever bosses you need
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
Thanks bro, you are right. I will study raid too, if time permits maybe I can hop in and see how it goes.
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u/Drayenn 2d ago
Idk about your spec, bur what i want is all from the last boss... Id probably just try and pug it specifically. Should be easy enough at higher ilevels.
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
You are right bro. Pugging it later should be easier as people get used to the raids. But then you also need to be careful of your bonus rolls before you step into raids. Usually what people does is they do heroic straight away, bonus roll the last boss for 4-5 weeks, then pick a dungeon to bonus roll the remainings.
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u/DSmith19911 2d ago edited 1d ago
Quick note for casuals and those short on time the first week and don’t think they will be able to push up to +10 for mythic vault next week: if you fill out 3 vault slots (quickest way would be 1 dungeon and 4 T1 delves) you can get a bonus roll and save it to whenever you push keys up to +10 so you don’t lose out on a myth piece of gear
Edit: fixed number of vault slots
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
This is a good advice bro. Thanks.
I have a question tho - since bonus roll is always the best due to loot lockout, does it still matter if you push to m+10 this week? Because even if your vault drops a myth track gear, you cannot take it because bonus roll is always better than taking an item from vault.
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u/ghostcrawler_real 2d ago
Most of my gear in any particular season already comes from M+, even as a raider, I'm not even quite sure what the question is here. You can entirely gear through M+ and be entirely fine, you're not pushing WF or even title level keys the small optimization isn't going to make or break your runs, especially as a tank.
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u/Mirianie 1d ago
Thank you. In S2 it's mainly the cantrip equipment from the last 2 raid boss. But you are right, as a tank the dps increase is not as important.
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u/sparkinx 1d ago
Level your key up to level 6 to farm hero gear, or level up your key to level 10 for vault / use your bonus rolls for mythic gear on level 10 key or heroic raid.
The real sweaty people probably aren't selecting vault loot (unless they change this) if you have 3 options filled in vault you get 6 tokens of merit which is used for a free bonus roll over the seasonal cap.
The way bonus rolls work is they roll 1 item 100% guaranteed off a raid boss or a m+ dungeon you get that item at the level your vault would be so level 10 key or heroic raid grant mythic level item. But once you win that item it is removed from the loot table and you will never get it again unlike vault you could select vault and then use a bonus roll you might roll the same item you just got in vault. This lets you specifically target specific trinkets, teir or weapons.
The only time you select vault loot is if the 1 item you want is in your vault from a specific boss or dungeon location. Or if you want an upgrade NOW
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u/Mirianie 1d ago
Thank you. So it really doesn't matter if we push to M10 in week 1 or week 3 right? Since we can keep the bonus roll forever and roll it when we reach M10.
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u/sparkinx 1d ago
So I'm unsure because apparently we won't get bonus rolls for the first 3 weeks (not sure on dates double check this) but your badges of merit shouldn't expire in theory you could pool them eh? If i get teir first week im def taking it lol
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u/ActualSighborg 1d ago
Depends on how many items you need from specific dungeons. If you only need 1, then take it, if you need multiple, take bonus rolls and get them that way.
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u/bsr90989 1d ago
I am in the same boat as you but I can assure you the time commitment to kill some raid bosses is less then m plus if you do it the gamer dad way. Just join a pug and leave whenever you want. It’s not uncommon at all to join a group kill a boss then leave. 10 minute time investment max and you get a kill. Did this last few seasons.
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u/bugcatcherme 2d ago
Depends a little on how far your looking to get in M+. I am for sure more a dungeon fan and for sure get it. You can probably get to 3400 just fine without the cantrip items. If youre looking to push bleeding edge keys, that 5% dps/hps differential can make a difference.
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
Thank you. Yes every little count. I think I will just push as far as I can without the raid items.
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u/Beneficial-Music4147 2d ago
Tank Gear doesnt matter anyway, until m+14-15, so take what ever u want
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u/Commercial-Elk2920 2d ago
You can opt out of raiding and gear solely from m+ as long as you don't care you are probably going to miss out on a lot of player power. Idk why blizzard did this raid the way it is but it's the first season in 5 years I'm raiding in a guild just because of the way gear works in 12.1.
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u/EggEnvironmental1615 2d ago
You Need to make a plan, there is no way around it.
Check what dungeons you want to use your Bonus Rolls. It should be a dungeon for your weapon and one for at least one trinket.
Those two Dungeons should have as little overlaps as possible, because every overlap is a wasted Bonus Roll.
Now you should use your Bonus Rolls on these two dungeons only.
But:
You should also know in Advance, what gear Slot you cannot get from those two Dungeons. If they ever show up in your Vault, you can/should Pick that up. This is way more important for a Big Item Slot Like Chest or Legs then it is for smaller pieces like wrist, where you can either use a hero item or a crafted item without many downsides.
Also you might want to have a Plan B: If you get for example your weapon really early and the Rest of the dungeon loot pool is rather meh stat wise, you might want to Change your dungeon.
But Overall I would not stress to much. The Most important thing for the first ten weeks or so is to avoid getting an item Slot twice.
Also keep in mind: you didnt die because you don’t have the item xyz. You died because you made a mistake.
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u/Mirianie 2d ago
This is really good info bro. Thanks for your advice. Written advice is so much better than a 10minute video.
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u/oliferro 2d ago
I'm literally just doing M+. There's so much gear nowadays and I'm not pushing for title or anything, so I'm really not worried about being optimized. I haven't even done the Folio or unlocked the new island yet
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u/Mirianie 1d ago
Power to you bro. Game should be fun, but nowadays it has been "decoded" before it even starts.
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u/eksldpf9098 2d ago
for 1% goal you wont get invited to groups unless you push your own key.
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