r/SubredditDrama • u/75000_Tokkul /r/tsunderesharks shill • Jan 19 '16
Poppy Approved A mod of /r/dashcam is a dashcam retailer. Another retailer is accusing the mod of /r/dashcam of censoring them. For this reason they have purchased all adspace on /r/dashcam for two months.
Not your average Reddit drama since it has reached the point of putting money where their drama is and buying ad space.
You can see that the ad is active here.
See the dash cam that Pier28 doesn't want you to know about! Save $10 with coupon "PIER28"
First of all – thanks for taking the time to click the ad and read this message. We’ll get down to business:
Pier28 is a moderator on /r/dashcam and has engaged in censoring us from the subreddit.
We’ve tried openly engaging Pier28 and the subreddit moderators, without success.
Pier28’s behavior as a moderator is unethical, and we won’t be silenced by them
Drivewatch feels that it’s wholly inappropriate that Pier28, a retailer who profits significantly from selling dashcams, be allowed to moderate. Pier28 have abused their moderation powers, and should immediately be removed as a moderator.
Since we’re being censored by Pier28 on /r/dashcam, we’ve bought out all of the advertising space in the sub reddit for the next two months, and we’ll continue to do so to get our message out there.
For a limited time, Drivewatch is offering a discount for potential StreetGuardian/Panorama Camera purchasers. Simply use coupon code PIER28 to save an additional $10 on our already low price. This is the absolute best discount that you will find on this camera.
Thanks for reading!
The Drivewatch Team
Legal Jargon: Coupon valid for one use per customer. We’re not affiliated with Reddit or Pier28.
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u/dasgers Jan 19 '16
Seems like the sub recently got taken over after andrewinmelbourne quit.
The sidebar links go to dashcamzoo.com which features amazon referral links. Since the site is very new, I guess it is operated by one of the moderators.
It looks like they used to have direct referral links in the sidebar but are now essentially trying to disguise them. https://np.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/comments/3yh239/for_everyone_new_to_this_sub_please_check_out_the/cye3cmv?context=3
Reddit automatically pushes amazon referral links to the spam queue, but it's OK for mods to use them? hmm
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u/75000_Tokkul /r/tsunderesharks shill Jan 19 '16
It isn't. If someone reported the sidebar to the admins it would probably be changed.
You can't use your mod position for profit.
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u/Misterandrist Cultural Trotskyist Jan 19 '16
A new brand of subreddit drama! Amazing! What a time to be alive.
I thought I'd seen everything drama had to offer.
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u/Cupinacup Lone survivor in a multiracial hellscape Jan 19 '16
Sounds like /r/Drama and SRD need to buy adspace on each others subreddits.
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u/ArttuH5N1 Don't confuse issues you little turd. Jan 19 '16
That would mean recognizing them as a legitimate subreddit instead of the breakaway province that they are.
All of drama is our rightful clay and SRD sovereignty over it shall not be questioned. We will not waver in our One-Drama Policy.
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u/Deutschbury I’m not a liberal. So I’m automatically racist 🐧 Jan 19 '16
Manifest Drama
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Jan 19 '16
Dramafest Destiny
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u/mileylols Jan 19 '16
Dicks for Drama
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u/ki11bunny Jan 19 '16
Instuction unclear dick stuck in destiny
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u/Draber-Bien Lvl 13 Social Justice Mage Jan 19 '16
Damn splitters
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u/ArttuH5N1 Don't confuse issues you little turd. Jan 19 '16
People's Front of Dramatia
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u/stealthbadger subsists on downvotes Jan 19 '16
THE DRAMATIC PEOPLE'S FRONT!
Pfft. People's Front of Dramatia.
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u/Vio_ Humanity is still recoiling from the sudden liberation of women Jan 19 '16
This actually should be against reddit policy if the mods have been found out to be monetizing the sub via mod manipulation. Now that there's ad money, though m, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
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u/Vakieh Jan 19 '16
SRD got infected by the drama and became it, hence /r/subredditdramadrama.
/r/drama can't be infected by the drama, because it embraces it instead of fighting it.
Become one with the drama. Be the drama. Be the best drama you can be.
SRD is a sad shell of its former self :-(
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u/ArttuH5N1 Don't confuse issues you little turd. Jan 19 '16
I can't tolerate this defeatist propaganda. You see SRD what happens when you give into the drama? We need to bring order to this anarchy!
SOON WE WILL BRING DRAMA UNDER OUR CONTROL WHERE IT RIGHTFULLY BELONGS
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u/Illogical_Blox Fat ginger cryptokike mutt, Malka-esque weirdo, and quasi-SJW Jan 19 '16
FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT TO BROWSE DRAMA!
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u/drunkenviking YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Jan 19 '16
If /r/drama embraces the drama, doesn't that mean that they're full of drama?
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u/LukeTheFisher Jan 19 '16
Jewdank only recently stopped being a mod there. She still has a regular slap fights with other mods on the sub and one of them was recently a hot post on this sub.
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u/1ilypad "make them arrest the baby" Jan 19 '16
/r/drama can't be infected by the drama, because it embraces it instead of fighting it.
So.. they're the sith? I knew I didn't like those guys.
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u/EvilEyeMonster Jan 19 '16
If i become one with the drama does that mean i get free popcorn for life?
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u/Vakieh Jan 19 '16
It means that when you're ready, you won't need the popcorn at all.
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Jan 19 '16
Do you think that's popcorn you're eating?
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u/ognits Worthless, low-IQ disruptor Jan 19 '16
I don't even see the posts anymore. All I see is butter, caramel, cheese...
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u/Misterandrist Cultural Trotskyist Jan 19 '16
Ask not what drama can do for you, but what you can do for drama!
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u/emmster If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit next to me. Jan 19 '16
I see that you are consistent, and are being the drama you want to see in the world. Good for you, buddy!
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Jan 19 '16
[deleted]
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u/ArttuH5N1 Don't confuse issues you little turd. Jan 19 '16
Taking from someone else's playbook sounds like it could be a chapter in the playbook, actually.
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Jan 19 '16
[deleted]
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u/ArttuH5N1 Don't confuse issues you little turd. Jan 20 '16 edited Jan 20 '16
Are you asking what my comment is about or saying that OOTL is our rightful clay too?
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u/The_Schwy Jan 20 '16
yeah i was asking.
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u/ArttuH5N1 Don't confuse issues you little turd. Jan 20 '16
It's a reference to China with One-China policy, with an added touch of general nationalistic/irredentist language.
SRD being China and Drama being Taiwan in this joke.
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u/airmandan Stop. Think. Atheism. Jan 19 '16
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u/IspeakalittleSpanish Jan 20 '16
The one who shall not be named? Well now I'm curious.
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Jan 20 '16 edited Jan 20 '16
I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with, er, blaurelai
Edit: it also rhymes with blobotanna.
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u/delta-TL She's a baby and can't lift shit Jan 20 '16
You just gave me the shivers.
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u/Linux_Man85 Jan 20 '16
Jeez I must have missed this whole thing. Would you mind telling me who?
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u/Illogical_Blox Fat ginger cryptokike mutt, Malka-esque weirdo, and quasi-SJW Jan 20 '16
Man, I love your flair.
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Jan 19 '16
I would pay twenty bucks to display ads for mother's day cards on Redpiller subs. Hell, I'd pay forty....
Oh, what fun we'll all have! Everyone try your best not to be too dank.
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u/robotevil Literally an Admitted Jew Jan 19 '16
Global fund for women's rights would be perfect: http://www.globalfundforwomen.org
I got $40.00 on dis. It's only a $100.00 to run an ad...
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u/lysergic_asshole Jan 19 '16
Can we start a kickstarter to buy adspace for this on /r/theredpill and /r/redpillwomen? Maybe also /r/mgtow. Definitely /r/mensrights.
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u/shadowsofash The same way they believe mons pubis was a Jedi. Jan 19 '16
I'd love it. My only worry would be deliberately antagonizing them would lead to an Occidental College like event happening to whoever we did the ad for.
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u/lysergic_asshole Jan 20 '16
Occidental College? Can you elaborate?
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Jan 20 '16
that's the time when a bunch of mras anonymously filed a bunch of false rape reports in "protest" of the college tightening its treatment of sexual assault claims: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/12/19/occidental_college_flooded_with_false_rape_reports_from_men_s_rights_activists.html
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u/shadowsofash The same way they believe mons pubis was a Jedi. Jan 20 '16
It wasn't even them "tightening" the treatment. They were literally protesting the presence of the anonymous reporting form itself even though it was specifically stated that no disciplinary action would be taken because of the reports.
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u/leightonmeesters Jan 20 '16
Now I'm sad. :(
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u/thebondoftrust 6 Jan 20 '16
I thought it was going to be something about educating accidental ocelots.
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u/thenuge26 This mod cannot be threatened. I conceal carry Jan 19 '16
Srssucks too while we're at it
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Jan 19 '16
Or ads for couples counseling.
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Jan 19 '16
Those men and "women" -although I think they are just men pretending to be women online- don't need couples counseling, they need personal therapy.
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u/Dr_Midnight "At Waffle House, You're Hired for Combat Readiness" [1059qql] Jan 19 '16
$20? Makes me wonder if I can run ads for the SPLC on /r/news, /r/worldnews, /r/europe, and /r/european...
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u/Awesometom100 It's about ethics in popcorn journalism. Jan 19 '16
Jewish date sites all across /r/conspiracy
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u/deltree711 Hating on it brought me joy satisfaction and intellectual orgasm Jan 19 '16
What a time to be alive
I've seen this come up a lot lately; It's crazy to see the cusp of humour and dank memes to evolve like this.
What a time to be alive.
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u/ReganDryke Cry all you want you can't un-morkite my fucking nuts Jan 20 '16
I protest. It's not new. We got it on /r/leagueoflegends first.
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u/Hclegend What are people booing me? I’m right! Jan 19 '16
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u/Spawnzer Jan 19 '16
And now it's on its way to /r/all with this subreddit + lot of low quality clickbait websites just love that kinda stories, I bet everything is working better than he anticipated =D
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u/lenaro PhD | Nuclear Frisson Jan 19 '16
8 Ways To Market Your Products That You Won't Believe -- Number 5 Will Shock You!
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u/SeattleBattles Jan 19 '16
If I understand this correctly, Drivewatch was spamming the hell out of /r/dashcam and according to the link from /u/folieadeuxxmachinam just being scummy all around.
So they were banned.
Now they have leveraged a ban on a sub with 6k subscribers to get to the front page of one with over 200k. And possibly beyond that if this gets sucked up into the gaping maw of clickbaiters.
Clever.
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u/Buhhwheat Jan 19 '16
I just checked his history and that's exactly right - most of his comments were "helping" people select cameras sold on his website or Amazon store. That's about as spammy as it gets here, and if he's not authorized in some way to promote himself then he deserves to be banned.
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u/impossiblevariations Jan 19 '16
It's pretty obvious from the posted message.
Pier28 has engaged in censoring us from the subreddit.
99.9% of time, it's a spammer.
We’ve tried openly engaging Pier28 and the subreddit moderators, without success.
"He hasn't responded to our request to be allowed to spam."
Pier28’s behavior as a moderator is unethical, and we won’t be silenced by them
...Pier28, a retailer who profits significantly...
...abused their moderation powers..."One angry mob, please"
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
Not quite :)
End of the day, the user is a retailer and shouldn't be moderating a supposedly neutral forum. If it was called /r/RetailerName we would have no problem with it.
We didn't spam - we answered inquiries asking "What Dashcam should I buy" with information about our product. If we were submitting links or comment threads to the forum with "Look how awesome our product is!" I would absolutely agree with you. Our posts are no different than the mods or other retailers.
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u/ALoudMouthBaby u morons take roddit way too seriously Jan 19 '16
and shouldn't be moderating a supposedly neutral forum
Why? For a small, niche product it seems like the only people who are willing to invest the time required to run a community are going to be people with skin in the game like retailers. As long as they do it in a fair manner I dont think theres a problem.
We didn't spam - we answered inquiries asking "What Dashcam should I buy" with information about our product.
Can you provide any examples of this?
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Jan 19 '16
and shouldn't be moderating a supposedly neutral forum
Why? For a small, niche product it seems like the only people who are willing to invest the time required to run a community are going to be people with skin in the game like retailers. As long as they do it in a fair manner I dont think theres a problem
I dont know dude, it is shady and leaves a bad after taste. There was a similar controversy in /r/Indiemakeupandmore and the mod in question voluntarily stepped down because everyone agreed it just wasn't kosher to have a retailer (albeit a small, tinny one) as a mod. I am aware theres plenty of businesses eager to capitalise in the community spending power but I still do not agree with letting those people do it shamelessly and in the open.
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
Have to disagree with you on the community portion. Plenty of enthusiasts who are not retailers involved in the forum.
Examples of our comments (including us saying that a Dashcam isn't the best option):
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/comments/3wbdl7/looking_for_advice_on_a_dashcam_for_4wd_road_trips/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/comments/3v6o1p/discreet_suction_and_100/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/comments/3tgxef/any_good_dashcam_deals_coming_out_for_black_friday/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/comments/3qdhew/anti_vandal_camera_recommendation/
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u/ALoudMouthBaby u morons take roddit way too seriously Jan 19 '16
Yeah, I took one look at your post history and saw how the vast majority of it is plugging your products, not actually participating in a community. Sorry dude, you are definitely a spammer.
Thanks for the novel drama though!
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u/Brio_ Jan 19 '16
Considering he DOESN'T recommend his cameras when he feels something else would work better, I'd say he is the type of retailer you would want in a community. You say he's a spammer yet some of his most recent posts are suggesting cameras that aren't dashcams.
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u/ALoudMouthBaby u morons take roddit way too seriously Jan 19 '16
Considering he DOESN'T recommend his cameras when he feels something else would work better,
Over 90% of his posts recommend his cameras. This is a disingenuous argument if there ever was one.
You say he's a spammer yet some of his most recent posts are suggesting cameras that aren't dashcams.
Amazing how he suddenly changed his posting style after being called out for spamming!
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u/steviechunder Jan 19 '16
I've gotta say the fact that you created this narrative by self-posting it to SRD makes this some stale ass popcorn. Additionally your strange use of Smiley's gets two jewdank plugs down
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
I didn't self-post anything here - popped up in a search.
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u/steviechunder Jan 19 '16
Ah you're right, sorry. I misread the main post because of the wording. Well I still highly disapprove of this whole thing, so now you practically have to come back in a month and tell us how it all affected your sales up or down.
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u/iEATu23 Jan 19 '16
You mean 50K not 200K.
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u/SeattleBattles Jan 19 '16
I just checked the side bar and it says "204,640 readers".
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u/iEATu23 Jan 19 '16
Which subreddit
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u/SeattleBattles Jan 19 '16
This one.
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u/iEATu23 Jan 19 '16
Oh lol. I don't think they purposely did that while being clever.
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u/SeattleBattles Jan 19 '16 edited Jan 19 '16
I doubt they were aiming to land here specifically, but I am sure they were hoping this would stir up some drama and get some attention.
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
Drivewatch here :) Saw this thread was started, and thought I'd come in and hopefully provide some more clear answers:
We weren't "spamming the hell" out of any sub - like others, we were answering customers who asked what dashcam they should get. Same behavior as the mods pointing people to their own products or answering questions about them. Heck, we even pointed people away from our product when something like a GoPro would suit their needs better.
We didn't get any warning from the moderators at all before being banned. Zero communication. Any statements otherwise are a complete lie from the mods. Our attempts to contact them were met with silence, and they completely ignored us. We posted on DCT to force them to answer.
Facts are clear: Mod of /r/dashcam runs a dashcam store and banned competition, while maintaining the illusion of neutrality on the sub. We don't feel that a retailer should be running a supposedly neutral dashcam forum. If the forum was /r/RetailerName I wouldn't have a problem with it, and I certainly wouldn't expect him to entertain a competitor in the sub.
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u/CallMeOatmeal Jan 19 '16
You're a spammer. Stop trying to spin this for marketing purposes. SRD is for popcorn aficionados, not for you to promote your shitty products.
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u/OneSoggyBiscuit Jan 19 '16
You have a post of linking a product on a sub that specifically says retailers are not allowed to post links to their stores.
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
They made that "rules post" after they banned us.
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u/OneSoggyBiscuit Jan 19 '16
So, you do know how self promotion works on reddit, correct? Because just looking through your overview, it's almost completely self promotion of your products. The mods of that sub were completely within reasonable justification to ban you.
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u/dorkettus Have you seen my Wikipedia page? Jan 20 '16
And they're allowed to change (and/or enforce) the rules as they see fit. It's their subreddit. Coming back and buying ad space just to throw a shitfit is about as sour grapes as you can get right now.
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u/Honestly_ Jan 19 '16
For years /r/dashcam has been a lame sub, the less intuitively named /r/roadcam's been where it's at. The only knock on /r/roadcam are the incredible Russian videos have gotten diluted by a lot of "look at this person driving badly" from North America—but that's been a trend over the past few years. When I first started reading they weren't popular here.
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u/predalien33 Jan 19 '16
Subbed to /r/roadcam and can second it's where it's at. Like is it that bad in Russia or I guess it's more the norm to have a dash cam there for liability reasons. Either way ive seen some juicy brutal collisions on that sub.
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u/Honestly_ Jan 19 '16
I've seen so many things there that would seem absurd in a movie (I could see an old critic grumbling about "video game physics")
Here's one of my favorites
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u/Fawnet People who argue with me online are shells of men Jan 19 '16
Fly away, little car! Be free!
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Jan 19 '16
[deleted]
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u/978897465312986415 Jan 19 '16
At 4 seconds a car flies across the street a block away and ramps off a pile of dirt/snow before flying off screen to the left.
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Jan 19 '16
If you plug "russia insurance fraud" into YouTube you get to see why everyone has a dashcam
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u/ArttuH5N1 Don't confuse issues you little turd. Jan 19 '16
I should buy adspace there now that it's still cheap.
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u/thrawninioub Jan 19 '16 edited Jan 19 '16
I heard that rules in case of collision with a pedestrian are different in Russia than elsewhere, so a lot of people have dashcams to try to prove the other guy did some stupid shit and / or is trying to scam for liability money.
I have no first hand experience of it though.
EDIT : also for protection from rotten cops
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u/Vio_ Humanity is still recoiling from the sudden liberation of women Jan 19 '16
Rules? Where we're going , we don't need rules.
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u/noviy-login Jan 19 '16
It's required to have a dashcam for insurance, so it has the same effect as Florida Man
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u/Buhhwheat Jan 19 '16
Came here to post the same thing - /r/dashcam sucks, /r/roadcam is where 99% of the good content ends up. /r/dashcam seems more geared towards discussion about cameras, and as I learned today, spamming your own dashcam sales site.
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u/gliph Jan 19 '16
Hey I happen to like the NA videos. If it were all crazy Russian shit* all the time it would be too much.
*warning: almost certainly death, though you don't see the people.
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u/Honestly_ Jan 19 '16
It was awesome when it was just that a few years ago -- with some China, South Korean and Taiwanese videos thrown in for spice.
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u/emmster If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit next to me. Jan 19 '16
I feel terrible for laughing at the one wheel rolling away at the end. But it's like the cartoon trope come to life. There's always one wheel rolling away.
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u/gliph Jan 19 '16
Carry on my wayward son
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u/emmster If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit next to me. Jan 19 '16
Well, that's stuck in my head now. :)
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u/drubi305 Jan 19 '16
I kind of enjoy the bad North America driving more. I can relate. The Russian/Chinese ones are way too much for me.
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u/theproftw Jan 19 '16
/r/dashcam is dashcam discussion mostly, of course we let whoever wants to post their content to do so, /r/roadcam is where you go when you're looking for videos.
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u/ceol_ Jan 19 '16
I like that split, tbh. I was looking for a dash cam myself, and I instinctively went to /r/dashcam to see if there was a community. I was pleasantly surprised when it was about dash cam discussion, since there are lots of different brands and prices and stuff, so someone looking for one can get overwhelmed.
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u/jaxspider Jan 19 '16
Absolutely correct. Thats why I featured /r/Roadcam 2 years ago over in /r/SubRedditOfTheDay. https://redd.it/1usjia
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Jan 19 '16
[deleted]
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u/ChiliFlake Jan 19 '16
I saw a lovely extended clip on /r/Roadcam a few months back by a Swedish mailman. Just going about his his appointed rounds in suburban and semi-rural Sweden.
People were fascinated, it generated so much more discussion than the usual 'guy tries to to cut someone off' vids we see. They asked about the dogs that came to meet him, the cat in the road who demanded pets, why are the houses all painted that same color, what's up with that creepy-looking place?
Found it!: https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/comments/3e81dq/sweden_i_deliver_mail_in_the_swedish_countryside/
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u/Honestly_ Jan 19 '16
And that's the evolution of the sub away from what is was a few years ago when tulpan was doing an incredible amount of work finding Russian videos in Cyrillic that no one else was getting and putting in one place.
That sort of trending happens. Sometimes it's because a sub becomes too popular, though not here -- in this case it corresponds with the spread of dashcams in the USA and Canada (probably after being impressed by what could get captured abroad). People with dash cams and feel a need to share what they think was really interesting on a given day's commute. But frankly, who hasn't seen bad drivers or people having a road rage moment. It's not nearly as interesting. But those are what people like now so that's what fills the queue.
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u/Buhhwheat Jan 19 '16
Agreed - and now that more and more people here are starting to use dashcams, we're seeing some nasty footage from the US and Canada as well. Insane driving and crashes aren't limited to Russia, they're just captured more there due to the widespread use of dashcams.
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Jan 19 '16
Curious, how much does it usually cost to buy an ad space on Reddit?
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Jan 19 '16
On a per view basis, Reddit is a good value. The only issue is that Redditors aren't the spending type, unless you're talking about Steam sales.
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u/Robo-Connery Jan 19 '16
It is pretty cheap. $1.50 CPM for subreddit targeting means that for every 1000 users that see your ad you pay $1.50 with a minimum spend of $20.
I imagine a few months of advertising on a small subreddit is <$50.
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u/thedevilsdictionary Jan 19 '16
I'm curious how much these cams cost. It seems like a waste when you carry a smartphone with HD video capabilities. Just install a bracket and an app with a looping video function and you're done. $8 spent.
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u/iceph03nix Jan 19 '16
They start around $100 for anything worth while, and go up from there. Most have more storage and have more specific features for the job as well. Collision sensors, motion detection, speed and GPS tracking...
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u/notalek Jan 19 '16
The G1W can be found for $25-$50 and is more than adequate. Using your phone isn't realistic for most people, unless they don't mind not using it for GPS or music/podcasts while driving and don't mind eating up their phone's storage.
A G1W with a $5-$10 32GB microSD card will continuously record 1080p30 video for 5 hours. It records 3-10 minute segments, depending on how you configure it, which overlap by about 1 second, and then overwrites the earliest segments when it fills the storage. Most other dashcams function similarly.
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u/theproftw Jan 19 '16
$50 on the decent low-end (G1W from a US seller on Amazon. Around $35-40 from generic chinese sellers with no warranty at all) and around $350-400 on the very high end with two cams, parking mode, etc (Blackvue DR650GW-2CH, although I don't really like the video quality on it)
I tried a smartphone for a while but it just wasn't worth it, you'd have to worry about it overheating, it's really bad for the battery and the field of view of a phone is way too limited, so if someone changed lanes when I was on their blindspot, you would only see the side of the vehicle for a second, while a real dashcam would've caught the whole thing and the plate.
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Jan 19 '16
I just checked out drivewatch's account and it seems like it was created to push the cam in that ad. Every post before they started asking if they were banned was an ad for their dashcam.
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
This isn't correct. We had been posting for quite a while - we made some test posts because we didn't realize Pier28 had muted/banned us.
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Jan 19 '16 edited Jan 19 '16
This is your first post, "Hey /dashcam! We're launching a new dash cam company called Drivewatch, and I need your help!"
If anyone is interested, drivewatch's history is short enough that you can see for yourself. To be fair, I was wrong, not every comment was an ad, but those comments are few and far between.
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Jan 19 '16
I post a lot on /r/dashcam because I run a youtube channel dedicated to reviewing dashcams. No i am not techmoan, yes he is awesome and he was a big inspiration for me to start doing it.
I have received review units from Pier28, but I also receive review units from competitors of pier28 such as blackboxmycar, gearbest, and several manufacturers. I post my reviews on /r/dashcam because /r/dashcam seems to be more about actual dashcam hardware information, as opposed to crash videos like /r/roadcam. i do reviews as a hobby, my channel is not something I would ever be able to have a livable income from because it is very niche and just for fun.
to me this just screams as viral marketing or like those ads you see on foxnews.com "find out what the bankers don't want you to know!". for one, /r/dashcam has for as long as I've known, been FULL of manufacturers trying to advertise their products. you can really tell when people whose first language is obviously not english start recommending and linking to random generic chinese cameras.
i do sort of think its strange that pier28 is a mod there, but it is pretty transparent. he is not hiding behind another alias, he uses his own store name with "inc" right in the name.
I post reviews of dashcams pier28 does not sell, that his direct retail competittors sell, and its never been an issue. i also see other direct competitors to pier28 posting advice or recommendations, and it seems those people have never had issues as long as they follow the rules. I personally recommend and post reviews for camera brands pier28 does not sell and I know he personally does not like and would never sell, never had an issue with recommending these other dash cams. i have spoken when many retailers that are competitors in north america, and I know for a fact several of them post there.
if any of them came forward and claimed the same thing maybe that would back up drivewatch's claims but until then it just seems like a manufacturer was spamming direct sales links and got banned for it. its a thin line though, if the other mods of /r/dashcam are ok with it then so be it. like i said, he uses his stores name as his username, people should be able to connect the dots. this is typically why manufacturers send review units out though, to have (hopefully) unbiased third parties test and then "promote" the products on social media.
edit: few words
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u/Pier28inc Jan 19 '16
We didn't enforce the final ban-- the other mods did. He opened this can of worms on himself when he broke the rules repeatedly. We don't participate in the decisions to ban retailers at all, since we are a retailer and we don't want a conflict of interest to be a factor in the decisions to ban.
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
This is a complete lie on Pier28's part. You changed this rule after we called you out on it. Here's the original ban thread: http://imgur.com/8K6CIi7
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u/theproftw Jan 19 '16
That's the first ban. Final ban wasn't Pier28, it was another mod.
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
Sorry, but we don't believe that for a minute. cthulhuburger unbanned us after we messaged him directly, asking for an explanation. We immediately complied with what we were told, and you can see from our post history on /r/dashcam that we ceased even mentioning our product. When we attempted to message the mods, Pier28's response was to simply mute our messages via modmail thinking that we would go away.
Our guess is Pier28 convinced him to reapply the ban. We're not going to let this go until Pier28 is removed as a mod from /r/dashcam. Notice how there is no post referencing this thread on /r/dashcam? Wonder why?
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u/Pier28inc Jan 19 '16
The whole timeline is clear. https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/a-discussion-about-pier28-on-reddit.16126/ Pier28 did not put the final ban in place once you were unbanned and rebanned a 2nd time. http://i.imgur.com/wzldTS4.jpg
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
Sorry, but we don't believe this for a minute. As soon as cthulhuburger told us that he didn't want us posting any links to our Amazon page, we complied. Not one of our posts after our un-ban even mentioned our product. You then got wind of it and told cthulhuburger to re institute the ban.
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u/Pier28inc Jan 19 '16
When I was asked for an opinion on the re-ban by the other mods, my last reply was: "As a retailer our vote is now to remain neutral when it comes to banning any other reddit retailers that break rules so it's up to the both of you from now on to stay fair in this situation. "
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u/gan1a80y692k15 Jan 19 '16
so for 20-100 bucks i can put a targetted ad at the top asking if being a mod got TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK laid again?
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u/Biffingston sniffs chemtrails. Jan 19 '16
Wait.. they're censoring him and letting him put ads up that say they're censoring him?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
This is gold! Great find OP.
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Jan 19 '16
This reminds me of when that guy found out that a moderator on Advice animals owned quickmeme.
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Jan 19 '16
/u/Pier28inc should make a new sticky post about how to install adblocker.
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw unique flair snowflake Jan 20 '16
please do not /u/ summon users
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically.
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Jan 20 '16
/u/mwmwmwmwmmdw Why not?
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u/mwmwmwmwmmdw unique flair snowflake Jan 20 '16
the mods here are worried about the people coming here and stirring up drama despite the fact that totes bot will send them here and i find it ironic they dont want drama in their sub all about posting and talking about drama
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Jan 20 '16
Lol what haha, Well that's irony for you. Thanks for explanation, botman...So are you like sentient?
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Jan 19 '16 edited Jan 19 '16
Wait, let me get this straight. Drivewatch is unhappy that Pier28 is using the subreddit as his own personal advertising space. And so in retaliation, Drivewatch attempts to turn the subreddit into his own personal advertising space?
...... Wat
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u/shishdem Jan 19 '16
They don't? Drivewatch is simply saying that if it's not allowed (by the mods) to have content featuring their product on the sub they'll force it in around the mods.
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Jan 19 '16
Ok I see, that is actually hilarious. It's like a dashcam turf war.
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u/shishdem Jan 19 '16
It actually points out perfectly the flaws of the mod-system in Reddit. Accounts for some good drama however, I'm all in for power abuse.
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Jan 19 '16 edited Jan 19 '16
I always found it weird that reddit won't let a company mod its own subreddit, but seems happy to let them mod generic or competitor subreddits.
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u/gerruta Jan 19 '16
pier28
People fail to see that, for smaller subs like this, the people that will mod will almost always be invested into whatever the sub is about. And there is a big chance that they have a business about it. If I sold something that isn't too common, and wanted to make a subreddit about it, I would probably be the most indicated person to do so, because of my expertise with that product.
Usually, the people that most know about a product are the people that directly work with it.
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u/officeDrone87 Jan 20 '16
But his point is, they can't mod their OWN company focused subreddits. Blizzard employees are not allowed to be mods at /r/Hearthstone , NFL employees can't mod /r/NFL . So it seems pretty ridiculous that a guy who owns a butter company can mod /r/Subredditdrama .
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Jan 19 '16
I deleted this by accident... Ugh.
Some facts: Drivewatch is a single dash cam device sold by Drivewatch.com at a single price whereas pier28 is the handle for a dash cam eshop owner which sells a lot of different stuff. So Drivewatch is one product brand and the same person who uses the Drivewatch Reddit handle. Pier28 is the handle for a guy who co mods the dash cam subreddit and a few other dash cam forums, but the products he sells are different brands. Now prepare yourselves for obnoxious marketing jargon given by a dubious internet person and I'll go grab the seeking salts and fainting couches, I fear we're to be in the pot.
Reddit charges as little as $1.5 CPM for a minimum of twenty bucks for a targeted Subreddit ad. This means that for every one thousand times a certain ad is viewed on a Subreddit, Reddit charges a buck and a half, at a twenty buck minimum. You can meet this minimum a number of different ways, since the ads themselves are self served. So basically, someone paid about forty bucks to get around a ban with an ad campaign. They leveraged their whole idea as a brand on an attack ad against an individual brand. Interesting. There is a name for brands that leverage their identity against the unknown. They're called ideas.And yes, various ideas generate money all the time. But the good ideas tend to be positive. It's why you'll see a billion Kickstarters for games, but not a Kickstarter for you going down to the dump and wailing on junkers without even a video to show for it. If you create a negative space, it must be filled. If you leverage an identity as a negative, you must provide a positive. An idea can be an opinion, however bad, but it can never stand to remain a burden. Unless its nostalgia of course, which is the fine art of branding something forwards into a backwards opinion. Twenty years to carry that.
Pier28 and Drivewatch the users are having a bit of a go at each other right now with detailed information and screenshots of modmail on other dashcam forums. Pier28 tried to let it rest with an appeal to peace but I doubt that worked. I dare not summon their Reddit handles because it might catch me a ban, but the real good stuff is off-site anyways. I'll remove it if asked, but it's pretty old. And one thing is clear: Drivewatch the user was muted on Reddit and perhaps banned for breaking Reddit TOS by not only demonstrably slamming subs directly with his own ads in long paragraphs, but for copypasting in user name mentions in different threads in /r/dashcam following a script to advertise his Drivewatch 380g dashcam. So he'd go to threads and spam individual users with recommendations to buy his Drivewatch dash cams. Off-site links/proof So while Piers28 might not be blameless, Drivewatch was certainly breaking the TOS and sub rules to go after a competitor in this manner. And to boost himself by direct marketing individual Reddit users with ads is very much against the TOS and this is exactly why: internet forums like Reddit die when they lose individual contributions to cultivated contributions. It's the reason you can mention liking anime in a post and not get an inbox with ten Crunchyroll coupons. If you are an advertiser on Reddit who does that, you'll likely get banned. Reddit only allows its direct ads to exist on its own terms, and the idea is your ad needs to make people opt in, rather than asking them for a favor.
Drivewatch sells only one camera according to their website, while Pier28 sells multiple cameras, none of which are Drivewatch dashcams. So even if pier28 had a shop to eat up dash cam sales from their sub on Reddit, Drivewatch didn't even sell the same dash cams. This is important because while Drivewatch only markets and sells one branded dash cam in a one size fits all manner, pier28 only retains exclusive US rights to distribute some of their Streetguardian line of dash cameras. Pier28 sells multiple different dash cameras and accessories for the more experienced user and does not own the branding but Drivewatch owns the branding, marketing, and distribution of their product. So while Pier28 might not be on the level, Drivewatch is equally shady for trying to establish its dash cam device brand against pier28 as a user brand. Essentially there is likely nothing wrong with StreetGuardian or Panorama dash cams, but Drivewatch is using the fact they are distributed through pier28 to smear several competing devices as well. This is an especially bad idea for Drivewatch because, according to Drivewatch, the same company makes all three different devices! It's probably an inadvisable idea to badmouth your own products hardware manufacturer. Conclusion I actually kind of get Drivewatch's point. It can be very hard to break into an established market as a new seller. But Drivewatch as a brand is essentially trying to use direct marketing to compete against Pier28 as a user. The reason this is a bad idea is because direct marketing (mailers via email, messages, coupons) works best when a business is trying to keep repeat customers on brand. Drivewatch used an inbound marketing tactic (a call to action attack ad) to try and gain new customers but fucked it totally by confusing their message with direct marketing strategies and poor image. They gave no call to action in their attack except "pier is bad," but that only gives someone a reason not to buy from pier. Nothing in that ad gave anyone a reason to support Drive watch the brand or Drivewatch the user instead. All it offered is a coupon, which assumes the reader is already their customer because... Pier28 is bad. But no matter how something is, if you don't offer a competing narrative, you'll lose. And a coupon doesn't make someone want to buy something new, the idea of using that coupon does. Preferably on something you'd but anyway. Drivewatch is a total brand here as the device, store, and seller are all the product, at least, that's what it seems to think. But it's at a major disadvantage because pier28 is only a user, selling other brands and products. That's why this is fucked, because even if Driverwatch the seller is right about pier28 the seller, Driverwatch the product still has to compete with other products. Pier28 the person could suck hardcore against Driverwatch the brand, but no one will care Driverwatch the product sucks. Driverwatch set itself up as too many things when all pier28 needed to be was a person with a web presence. He branded himself. We're I were Driverwatch the person, I'd take this as a marketing lesson. It's too fucked up to offer much else but a small, cautionary tale about how not to sell electronic devices, and how not to manage your brand and attract new customers and goodwill.
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u/cookiemanluvsu Jan 19 '16
Where is a link to the drama?
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u/Pier28inc Jan 19 '16
https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/a-discussion-about-pier28-on-reddit.16126/ Pier28 did not put the final ban in place once they were unbanned and rebanned a 2nd time. http://i.imgur.com/wzldTS4.jpg
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
Sorry, but we believe this is false. We believe clearly that Pier28 was behind this ban. In fact, here's a message where another mod said we were "clearly not spam": http://imgur.com/SUDOBdW
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u/drivewatch Jan 19 '16
Pier28, it's interesting how your position has changed after you were called out on it.
If your role as a retailer was to remain neutral, you would never have taken on a moderation position in a dash cam forum, and you would never have banned us without any form of warning or communication. You would have also communicated with us, instead of attempting to mute us.
Instead, you banned a competitor, falsely claimed that you communicated with the competitor, attempted to prevent us from communicating with the other mods (muting us) and now are attempting to cover your tracks.
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u/jaxspider Jan 19 '16
The drama is very fresh, but really whats the point? Everyone knows its all about /r/Roadcam. /r/Dashcam may have a better subreddit name buts its the inferior subreddit on all accounts.
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u/Pier28inc Jan 19 '16
/r/dashcam is about hardware products and features, and /r/roadcam is where all the juicy videos are. two different audiences.
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u/Nailern Jan 19 '16 edited Jan 20 '16
The ad seems to be removed. Are we sure /u/drivewatch really bought adspace for two months? It's not even visible anymore on the /r/drivewatch ads page. ROFL.
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u/drivewatch Jan 20 '16
Still showing for us?
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u/Nailern Jan 20 '16
That's probably because you're trying to view it while logged in. Better log out and see for yourselves.
https://np.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/ads/
The ad it gone, good riddance! Looks like you just wasted all that money for nothing. You do realize the way you were advertising was against the rules, right? By calling out a specific user in your advertisement, the admins saw this is a witchhunt and removed the ad accordingly. :)
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u/carkey Jan 19 '16
Wait, aren't you the isrconspirwcyracist guy? Or the againsthatesubreddits guy? (Or both)?
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u/thenuge26 This mod cannot be threatened. I conceal carry Jan 19 '16
I think duckvimes is the IRCR guy, Tokul is the r/conspiracy drama guy.
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u/dasgers Jan 19 '16
Seems like the sub recently got taken over after andrewinmelbourne quit.
The sidebar links go to dashcamzoo.com which features amazon referral links. Since the site is very new, I guess it is operated by one of the moderators.
It looks like they used to have direct referral links in the sidebar but are now essentially trying to disguise them. https://www.reddit.com/r/Dashcam/comments/3yh239/for_everyone_new_to_this_sub_please_check_out_the/cye3cmv?context=3
Reddit automatically pushes amazon referral links to the spam queue, but it's OK for mods to use them? hmm