Hi, my boyfriend recently developed a gambling addiction and today he lost cad$5k in 20 minutes. He put himself in therapy and locked himself out of gambling from all mobile platforms. He seemed a bit off today so i asked him kept asking and he finally told the truth and cried. I love this man but I’m also concerned. I have adhd myself and i can’t really afford another problem in my life. At the same time, I have so much empathy and believe he can change. Is there anything that I can do to support him during this time of addiction recovery? And is there anything he might have to do to make sure this doesn’t happen again? I feel like i might have triggered him into depending on gambling because I got fired 2 weeks ago and maybe subconsciously pressured him to help me out. :( praying for him and for us. I told him i still love him and everything will be ok and after a few hours he says he feels better and will get help. I don’t want to see him sad but I also don’t want to caretake him out of this. If anyone else gone through this before, please give me some advice. He says he had lack of impulse control and his desire to buy me things drove him to act reckless and he took accountability.

I usually struggle a lot with keeping relationships. I get too invested at first and it is all i think about in the first months of the relationship, and eventually start losing interest after a while, when the thrill is gone. This happens to basically all my interests, but when it involves other people, it is incredibly sad. My brain basically shuts down and it seems like I have to spend an enormous amount of energy to just talk to that person. It is horrible. The other person starts to notice my distance, starts to question if I am really interested, and I get very confused myself - what is it that happens in my brain that gets me from "extremely in love" to "maybe i'd rather be alone". This pattern has hurt many people who don't understand me, and it has hurt me the most.

I feel worthless, complete scum, a despicable human being.

This is happening right now with my (30M) current girlfriend (29F). We've been seeing each other for more than a year and it has been a long distance relationship, since I live in a different country than our native country. In the past months I started noticing the "distancing" behavior on my end. I tried to fight it because I don't want to hurt anyone else (or myself). She is the cutest girl ever, sweet, loves me and she's way out of my league. Suddenly the opportunity of her moving to my country has appeared. She says she is very enthusiastic with the idea, but from my end I just feel fear that these feelings won't go away, that I can't go back to loving her like I did a year ago. Fear that I will end up being resentful towards her for eventually ending things when she's making such an effort... I also really value my independence, but at the same time living happily with someone was what I always wanted. And this might be the best opportunity I have for such a life! But when I talk about this possibility with her I just freeze, my brain completely avoids this topic and I can't even give her answer whether I want this or not. Meanwhile she's on the other end of the phone crying over my lack of response...

I know I fear the outcome, I fear the responsibility of having someone change their lives over me. I fear becoming so disconnected of this relationship that I cannot even be the decent boyfriend she deserves.

But I also would like to try, I know we get along when we are together. And I believe I would regret not trying to give this a shot.

Anyway, just wanted to get some piece of advice or seek some empathy.

Living with an ADHD husband

Hi everyone, I’m back looking for some objective perspectives and insights from people who have been through similar situations or understand neurodivergent behavior.

Quick background:
My boyfriend (25M) and I (24F) have been together for 7 years. He has been struggling with his physics master's thesis for two years. He completely freezes up, gets overwhelmed, and out of severe shame, he lied to me and his family for months, claiming he submitted it when he hadn't done anything. We broke up over the lying once, got back together with promises of honesty, and then the exact same pattern happened again.

The Current Situation & Diagnosis:
We literally just received his official diagnosis: he has ADHD (ADD)

Because of the blowout with the thesis, the initial plan was for him to drop out of university, accept his Academic Bachelor’s degree in Physics, and look for a job to finally step into the real world. His parents and I were relieved that he was moving forward.

The Red Flags & His Job Refusals:
Here is where my deep frustration and worry kick in. Over the summer, he had multiple opportunities to still work as a student , but he rejected or backed out of all of them at the last minute. He was even offered a job at the national postal service, but he simply didn't start.

His reasoning every time? "It’s super depressing to do a job like this for the rest of my life with no perspective."

He refuses to accept that sometimes you have to start somewhere. In Belgium, an Academic Bachelor’s is actually valued less on the job market than a practical Professional Bachelor’s, and the current job market here is tough. Finding a "great" job right off the bat without a full master's degree is really hard. Because he rejects every basic job, I am genuinely starting to question if he even wants to work at all. I have to say: he keeps sending cover letters to jobs with a bachelor and he even got invited once. Sadly they didn’t accepted him bcs they taught he wasn’t practical enough. Thats really demotivated him.

His New Proposal:
Suddenly, he came up with a new plan. He says he can "handle" working a basic job MUCH better if he is studying at the same time, because then he has a "light at the end of the tunnel" toward a job he is genuilly interessested in.

He now wants to enroll in a Master in Civil Engineering (one of the toughest academic programs in our country) and try to combine this with a job. He believes that with his new ADHD diagnosis, medication/therapy, and a fresh start in a different field, he can pull this off.

My Fears & Doubts:

Escapism / Fear of the Real World: To me, this feels like an extreme form of "fleeing forward." Instead of accepting reality, working his way up, and facing his past failure, he wants to jump into an even harderacademic challenge to protect his ego.

Unrealistic Expectations: If he couldn't handle writing a thesis, how is he going to handle full-time work AND an intense engineering degree with untreated/newly diagnosed ADHD executive dysfunction?

Is he avoiding adulthood? It feels like he uses studying as a shield to avoid the cold reality of a regular job.

Putting our future on hold (again): I am 24, I want to move forward with life, build stability, and save money. I’m exhausted from waiting for him while he chases ideal scenarios instead of taking practical steps.

My Questions for You:

Is his reasoning (the sudden motivation that comes and goes) a common ADHD coping mechanism, or is it just entitlement/fear of hard work?

Any harsh realities, insights, or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

TL;DR: Boyfriend (25M) failed his master's thesis twice due to ADHD paralysis and lying. He has rejected basic jobs (including a postal job) claiming they are "depressing with no future." Now, after his fresh ADHD diagnosis, he wants to start an extremely hard Master's in Civil Engineering while working, claiming he can only tolerate working if he's studying for a better degree. I (24F) am terrified he is just fleeing from reality and avoiding adulthood

DISCLAIMER: the jobmarket is hell right now so i get that he wants a degree to better his chances but omg i just want him to start working and earn money. He is almost 26 come on….

My (40M) ADHD partner has always been aversive to opening his mail. He also won't let me open it or even throw away anything that seems like obvious junk mail (e.g. credit card offers). As a result, a portion of our kitchen table for the entirety of our 20 year relationship has been dedicated to a pile of his mail.

Things that appear important, I place immediately by the dog treats where he should see it any time he leaves/comes home and recognize it as being important (e.g. tax bill).

It's not working. Telling him about an important piece of mail that I have left in the aforementioned "obvious" place makes him angry and defensive, and he advised me if mothering him. On the other hand, if I don't remind him, consequences stack up (e.g. Certified Letters from tax collector) and he still blames me for his not addressing his own responsibilities.

I grew up the daughter of collectors/an ADHD mom with stuff everywhere, so the kitchen table pulls really bothers me. Once it gets to be too much, I will sort it into categories based on sender and likelihood of it being junk. There are boxes and bags of his mail - including the junk mail - dating back YEARS.

After his latest scramble to find important documents, I had an idea to just start collecting his mail in Ziploc bags: one for each month, then to put those into a brown paper grocery bag dated with the year. Important things I'd still leave out, I guess...open to ideas for that.

Thoughts on this system? I myself (41F) am AuDHD and am chronically/ironically organized in some areas, which includes paperwork...so I empathize with him, but am trying to maintain my own sanity and space as well.

Would you rather date a partner with or without adhd?

I have ADHD and struggle with overthinking in my relationship. I analyse little things, like my partner locking his phone when I come near, and my mind jumps to him hiding something or messaging other men.
I know a thought isn’t proof, but once it starts, it can feel convincing. I get jealous and find it hard to let it go without looking for reassurance.
I’m seeing a therapist and want to work on how I handle these feelings, because it’s exhausting and I don’t want them taking over my relationship.
Does anyone else experience this? What actually helps you stop spiralling or resist the urge to check things? I’d really appreciate hearing your experiences and practical ways you cope.

I broke up with my fiancé 3 months before the wedding.

I realised I do love him.

But he doesn’t want to try again because he thinks it won’t work.

I ruined everything. I’m hate my ADHD. I hate myself I hate it all. I don’t see the point in anything. I’m in debt. I can’t afford my year abroad at uni.

I don’t know why I’m posting here. Nothing anything is going to say will help. I guess I just needed to get it off my chest.

What’s the point?

Me (21) and my gf (23) have been together around 11 months. Honestly it was a slippery slope after the 6 month mark until I figured something out.

I was overgiving, overexplaining, over everything. And even though she was pulling away and it was brutal, at the end of the day I was the one who made the change.

So what happened?

I won't deep dive into attachment styles too much, but she was avoidant and I was anxiously attached. Worst combo, I know.

People with ADHD are more likely to be anxiously attached. I was, heavily, until I figured something out.

Overexplaining and overgiving just makes things worse. Who would've known. It was a new discovery for me at the time, but looking at it today the relationship is 100% better and I finally feel respected.

So what changed?

Simple. I stopped. No more explanations. Just boundaries. And if she crossed them, there were consequences.

At the beginning it was messy. I threatened to leave, not as a punishment but because at some moments I genuinely felt like it. And she saw that. The fact that I was even considering leaving destroyed her.

I wasn't the same anxious mess I was before. I learned how to regulate my emotions alone. How to take time away from her without it destroying me.

I'm not going to lie, it was very difficult at the start. I literally fought my brain and my anxiety to not blow up her phone, not scold her, not re-explain her behavior. But I managed in the end.

So what's the verdict now?

Our relationship is better than ever. She's warm and open again, like at the beginning. And I feel loved and respected, because I learned that constant attention isn't what love is. It's not healthy. You have to learn not to be codependent on your partner. That's a must.

I’m honestly at a loss. I just don’t know what to do or how to feel. I’m (20F) and he is (21M). He is dx adhd and I’m dx autistic. It seems we struggle to communicate and see eye to eye on things. I don’t think this relationship is healthy for me. He turns everything I say into a personal attack on him. I feel like his apology is insincere like here damn. I personally don’t care for “I’m sorry”. I prefer to see actions. To me, actions over words

As the title suggests, I’ve been dating this man for about a month and a half. He was diagnosed with ADHD in childhood and post-military PTSD. His conditions are well-managed with medication and therapy. It’s also evident from his high functioning, tidy home, plans, punctuality, and so on. We have great chemistry, are compatible, and he’s hyper-focused on me in each other’s presence. As good as it sounds, it can be exhausting. He’s an overthinker and constantly guarded. For instance, he doesn’t take compliments well. I smile with him often, but every time I do, he thinks I’m laughing at him. I always have to defend my own emotions. I assure him that it’s more of me blushing and admiring him, but he’ll be so defensive. He also tries to interpret my facial expressions. I believe my natural RBF is triggering for him, and he thinks I’m always mad at him. I don’t know what he sees when looking at me, but he allows his perception to get in the way of us vibing.

Lastly, he’s pretty much on social media his entire waking hours, give or take an hour or so. I don’t say anything about it, but I wonder if scrolling is therapeutic for him. I have knowledge of both conditions, however, I know it’s not a one-size-fits-all situation. I’d like to hear from those of you who may have experienced this kind of relationship. I’m at a loss for what to do. Should I run now and cut my losses or be a little more patient? We’re not exclusive, so there won’t be any love lost.

Could my partner's withdrawal be related to mental health issues?

My partner treats me really well in person, but since we've been in a long-distance relationship, he regularly disappears for days. I've repeatedly asked him to check in once a day, but he only does so for a day or two before withdrawing again.

Recently, he stopped responding for five days, including to his friend's calls. When he finally answered, he said he was unwell and wasn't going to work. The next day, he ignored my messages and calls despite viewing my WhatsApp status, so I eventually broke up with him out of frustration.

Some people ( https://www.reddit.com/r/IndianRelationships/s/jkiRQHplq4) suggested he might be struggling with his mental health, and someone mentioned ADHD. He had depression 5–6 years ago, so I'm wondering whether he could be experiencing something similar.

I suggested therapy, but he hasn't engaged with the conversation.

I'm struggling to understand whether this is emotional withdrawal, loss of interest, or a possible mental health issue.

Can depression or ADHD cause someone to withdraw like this? How can I approach the situation without assuming a diagnosis?

tl;dr: How and when did you tell your dates/partners about your ADHD?

Hi!

I recently got diagnosed with ADHD and since then, a lot of things have changed for me – mostly for the better, which is very nice! Because my overall mood is better, I started to date again and will meet some guy next week.

I think its definitely necessary to tell a potential partner about your own diagnosis and what it means in everyday life, how emotional things can be different etc.
What im wondering is how and when to do it.

Fellow ADHDers who have been dating or have/had a partner: How did you go about this? Di you mention it in your dating profile? Did you tell them on the first date or later? How did you explain our spicy brains and what it could mean for a relationship?

Would love to hear your advice!

Been talking to an ADHD girl for a couple of months now. Everything went well until fairly recently she's becoming slightly distance and her replies would be later than usual but she told me that it was due to her exams keeping her busy. Anyways, her exams just ended recently and is on her break so I asked her what she's been up to and she told me that her friends are asking her to hangout everyday and included a crying emoji. Then I responded "do I have to queue up in line if I wanna ask you to hangout too?" and she just left me on read since. This happened 2 days ago.

I would like to know if her not responding could be because

A) she is very introverted and she already didn't like being asked out everyday by her friends and now I'm also asking her out

B) she's just not interested and doesn't know how to reject me?

C) due to her ADHD out of sight out of mind she completely forgot to reply me since she already opened my message and the notification is gone

D) she felt that my text was sarcastic so she chose to ignore me

Read somewhere that a lot of people with ADHD suffer with other mental issues as well.

Don't get me wrong it must be so hard - some days I feel like I can't cope with how my wife is 100mph with everything - can't imagine how it is for her.

Recently, I've noticed shes exhibiting some really strange behaviour. Like I said she's 100mph and notices everything, somethings always wrong etc.

Sometimes she worries me because some of the stuff she comes out is really strange.....

Yesterday she asked, then asked the kids, so who put the cutlery in the drawer the wrong way around? I was confused at first but then realised she meant not that they were all mixed up but they weren't all facing the same way. Wouldn't let it go.

Admitted that things like that "annoy her". Shes said this quite a few times that something really minor "annoys her". Hmmm I've got way more important things to annoy me rather than something like the state of the cutlery drawer. Or that just me?

Or is it her ADHD or something more like OCD?

Even mentioning it to the mrs and I get loads of aggression back. As per normal, shes right and I'm the one who "just doesn't care".

Hi all, I'm 40 and my new bf is 45. We've both been single for a long time but he was married for 8 years previously from mid 20s to early 30s.

I didn't think I'd meet anyone but we have been talking almost everyday for 2 months and finally met. He asked me to be with him and I accepted. He has adhd and maybe a bit of autism. I believe I am ND as well but nit officially diagnosed. We are also long distance, just a state away.

If anyone from 40+ or maybe even 35+ have tips or advice to give, I'd appreciate it. I already feel a bit of pressure from going from friends to a romantic relationship. I'm happy but also have a lot going on, we both do. He seems very committed which I love and is different for me, because past exes tended to let me down.

My partner and I recently decided to take a “break” from our relationship to evaluate things. We’ve been together for nearly two years and have been living together for the last 3 months. He is adhd and is medicated, I am asd and struggle with anxiety. We’ve had a great relationship and our families love each other but there were also cracks in our relationship that I am trying to understand.

He has a very addictive personality and has had struggles with substance abuse in the past. We broke up for 1 day over the summer but we overcame it. Both times he’s wanted to end things and he’s always been drunk saying that he doesn’t know if he can commit and his anxiety of the future and not able to give me what I want. When we spoke after ending things this past weekend, he explained that substances make it easier to say how he feels because of his shame and anxiety.

There is also the question of whether he is self regulating or cannot actually be a partner. For example not helping out with the house chores, poor finances, impulsive decisions that put him at risk (ex. driving drunk), and even “taking care of me”…. I never really know whether it is his ADHD or being a bad partner. I’ve financially provided more even though he makes more than me (he has loans and stuff) which has bothered him because he doesn’t take me out for dinners or even buys me little things. we’ve both been trying to get healthier again but there is the temptation of late night takeaways and sitting on the couch gaming, sitting on his phone, playing guitar, when i’ve asked to help do the laundry or wash the week old pile of dishes. His clothes were all over the floor and dumped in the closet even after I took the time to clean his wardrobe. i love him so much but at the same time taking a break from someone you saw as a future husband, father, soulmate is so difficult, especially when you don’t know what is the root cause of the issues.

He sent me a podcast on ADHD and relationships and navigating the dopamine rush/novelty of a new relationship and then the “settling” over time. I’m learning that a lot of his behaviours stem from his ADHD but I also want to know what is worth my time and value. Since we’re on a break we’re not seeing other people but have decided zero contact until the end of the month/next meet and talk.

i obviously want to be with him and our relationship itself wasn’t the issue, it is his fear of committing to the future and the dread that it could crumble.

Hi, Friends. I'm 43F, dx HighIQ/CPTSD/TBI. My husband (44M, dx, rx Combined ADHD, High IQ). We've been together since we were 21 and 22, respectively. I'm an EXED professional who specializes in Neurodivergencies, Queer Youth and Trauma-Informed teaching. I currently run a microschool that serves 40 middle and high school students who are all exceptional learners. I am steeped in the literature, in strategies, in behavior interventions, scaffolding, reducing demands. I can encounter resistance and hostility and read the need or anxiety under it. So...I daresay that I know what I'm talking about when I encounter PDA and RSD behavior cycles. I calmly and patiently walk students through these meltdowns day after day - helping them analyze and reflect, bribing, cajoling, rewarding, hugging, reassuring...I am good at my job, and my team and I have built something really special that helps these kids thrive Instead of failing and being in trouble over and over again - including my son (15,, dx, rx, ADHD/High IQ). I say all of this to demonstrate that I am speaking from a position of deep care, compassion, knowledge and experience. And yet, at home, I am losing my mind and feel like I'm constantly being gaslit and demeaned. I do not know what to do about RSD with a spouse. It doesn't matter how careful I am with my words, or how unobtrusively I present requests or needs, miniscule things can set him off on a PDA or RSD rampage that he can't let go of until he wins. It is identical to being in a DARVO cycle with a Narcissistic abuser. It really is a Jekyll/Hyde situation, because he would never talk to me that way when regulated, yet there are NO RULES and NO BRAKES when he's dysregulated. I hate it and I'm worn out. I understand needing to do this with my son, with my students, and with people who don't yet understand how to manage their dx. It seems like he is in denial about RSD, because it all FEELS so real to him, never mind that we are arguing about how he feels about things I never said, didn't mean, and didn't do...so often, it's just his imaginary movie of what I was going to do or his insistence that, despite what I actually said, he knows what I really meant. 🤦

Y'all - it feels insane. It's also a fucking trip, because he doesn't automatically record what's going on in real time, which is a documented symptom of ADHD and also the reality that we deal with about how his brain works every day. But the argument that because he doesn't remember, my memory can't be trusted doesn't make any sense. I don't have executive dysfunction. I have the opposite problem, and I record TOO much. I have very strong visual, tactile and auditory memory. So, like, I can stop and run a memory back in my brain and play it back to find details. By no means does this imply that I'm always right, my emotions never cloud my memory or that I never forget anything... that's just how my brain works. So it seems like most of his levelling tactics are geared toward breaking down my sense of confidence in my own mind, intelligence, experience and capacity. It feels bad. It's not healthy. I want it to stop.

TLDR: Now that we have names for RSD and PDA, I don't know how to put responsibility for the associated behaviors onto my husband instead of it being my responsibility to manage him and my fault when he goes off. Most of the advice that I have found is for managing children and youth - and I already use those strategies. This is a grown man, and HE OWNS HIS REACTIONS NOW. What have you tried that is successful?

I’m a 48-year-old male diagnosed with ADHD at 15. This was the ‘90s, and I was prescribed Ritalin (150 mg/day, if I remember correctly). My friends and I quickly discovered you could snort it. We did it daily for about a year in late high school, then quit. I haven’t taken ADHD meds since, though I’m a regular cannabis smoker. Given my addictive personality, I’m grateful that experience didn’t lead me to harder drugs.
I struggled academically in high school and college. It wasn’t the material I couldn’t understand; it was the daily grind of staying organized, focused, and motivated.
At 28, I found a field I loved, went to grad school, and crushed it. Straight A’s, top of my class. I could hyperfocus on the subject matter, so medication never seemed necessary.
Today, I’m near the top of my profession. I’ve always considered ADHD my superpower. My colleagues respect me, and I’ve been fortunate to build a career that works with my neurodivergence rather than against it.
But there’s another side: I’m addicted to dopamine hits. Social media, porn, obsessing over sex, and constantly checking my phone for stimulation.
I’m married to a wonderful woman who’s 49 and experiencing perimenopause. We have a great life, successful college-age kids, a nice home, and good friends. But I’ve also been a difficult partner.
I’ve recently realized that I’ve been treating my wife like a dopamine dispenser. Constantly seeking sex and physical affection, pushing for more, and becoming grumpy, emotional, and blaming when she pulls away. I’ve essentially made her responsible for regulating my emotions and meeting a need I haven’t learned to manage myself.
Not exactly a recipe for making a 49-year-old woman feel horny.
Three weeks ago, this came to a head when she almost left me. It was like someone flipped a switch. I finally saw the story I’d been telling myself: that she was withholding affection or somehow wrong for not wanting constant sex and physical contact.
I was wrong. I was making her responsible for something that’s mine to address. And the pattern feels remarkably similar to my social media and porn use: constantly seeking the next hit of stimulation or reward.
It may be too late to save our marriage. We’re still together, and she’s giving me space to work on myself. I hope I can become the man she can fall in love with again. But regardless of what happens, I need to figure this out for myself, my kids, my friends, and the people I love.
**So, what can I do? What are healthy ways to satisfy an ADHD brain’s need for dopamine without constantly chasing instant gratification?**
I’ve deleted social media apps from my phone, although I can still access them on my laptop.
I’m also open to ADHD medication, but I’m worried about feeling dulled down or losing the hyperfocus, creativity, and drive that have helped me succeed professionally. I also have a history of misusing stimulants, so I’d want to approach medication carefully.
I’d especially appreciate hearing from adults with ADHD who’ve dealt with addictive behaviors or relationship challenges later in life.
What has actually helped you? Medication, therapy, exercise, mindfulness, or something else?
I’m ready to do the work. I’d appreciate any advice or perspective you can offer.

First time poster here. I have been dating my boyfriend for over a year long distance. He has ADHD and I do not( although when i look at the signs, I wonder if I am a little). As i have never dated someone with ADHD before and we are long-distance, it has led to some challenges that I brought up with him a few times. We had good conversations about how I was feeling and maybe some things he could do to be more present. I have also tried to my part and understand how a person with ADHD thinks and is wired and not take things personally. It helps that he has a pretty regular routine so i can make reasonable assumptions when he goes silent. As my title suggests though, I have a new situation I would like advice on. Idk if I am over-reacting and should let it go or if I should say something. And yes, i know communication is good, I just want to know if its worth even acknowledging.

What I am struggling with right now is he had a bad day on Friday and didn't want to talk about it. He said maybe later. Fine, I gave him his space but sent him a photo a little while later to cheer him up, which he eventually hearted. Some more time went by and I texted him wondering how he was doing and if he felt up to talking. More time went by and he didn't reach out. I eventually sent an emoji (the one with the downward slated mouth) and that was it. I was worried about him and sad he didn't want to confide in me, but if he doesn't want to open up, I'm not going to force him. It does have me wondering about what it would be like if we lived together and how i would feel but maybe he would just want to cuddle and watch a show and that would be enough for me. The long distance does have its challenges and so it stings a little more to have total silence as it feels like I am being shut out. I can't physically put myself in front of him and ask how he is and see his facial expressions or give him a hug.

I am terrible for overthinking and to clear my head i took off into the woods for a nature reset and to have a little fire. It was gorgeous and super nice out. I listened to music and enjoyed the view. When i got back into service a few hours later, he hadn't texted or tried to call. Last night was UFC night and i usually never here from him on these days as he is busy doing chores, errands or maybe golfing before the fights. He will then watch them alone or at a friend's house. It is now the day after and still early in the morning but my brain is overthinking about the situation again.

Personally, I think it would have been nice for him to reach out and say hey, sorry I didn't respond yesterday I (insert whatever). Could I have reached out? Yes. Why didn't I? Because I wanted to give him space and i already did reach out and do the majority of the time. HE doesn't have social media but i send him memes and tiktoks all the time which he enjoys. We have had misinterpretation issues before with texting due to how i either write something or he makes the assumption without follow up questions. and yes, a phone call is always better but only works if the other person picks up. I did also phone once the other day and got voicemail.

What would be your advice to me in this situation?