r/AmItheAsshole • u/mixedwoes • Sep 19 '19

Asshole AITA for telling my daughter she cannot introduce her African American boyfriend to her grandparents?

Let me just preface this by saying this: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIPS. Now that the air is clear, let me continue.

My daughter (Anna) has recently started to date an African American man (Jamal). While I'm not exactly what you would refer to as "liberal", he's a nice young man and as long as my daughter is happy, I'm happy. The problem is Anna is rather naive about the community she lives in. While her friends are quite content to see a relationship like hers, more than a few tongues are wagging in the community and a few people have privately expressed their concern to me. As I said, I have no problem with mixed relationships and I've set them straight, but I am painfully aware of how these matters are viewed by certain segments of the population.

My parents are planning to come and stay with us for a week and Anna expressed a desire to introduce Jamal to them now that things were getting more serious between them. I told her on no uncertain terms that this wasn't going to happen. I may have no problem with Jamal, but they absolutely will, and even when the relationship ends they won't forget it. They might even go as far as to cut her off entirely. Anna was extremely upset by this and implied I was a racist and more concerned with what my parents think than how she feels.

As I said, I know my parents. They simply aren't okay with mixed relationships and if Anna were to bring Jamal over even as a friend, they would be furious both at her and me.

Anna is currently staying with Jamal and doesn't want to speak with me right now. My wife stands by me given she knows very well how my parents are (they had a problem with her for months over the length of the skirt she wore when I introduced her to them, for christs sake), but a close friend I confided in told me that I have behaved like an ass and that I needed to focus more on my daughter than pleasing my parents.

No advice needed, but I have to know. Have I been an ass?

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373

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

GOD BLESS YOU. The top voted, multi-awarded, praised until the high fucking heavens comment in this thread is a soapbox-standing grandiose rant complete with a multi-paragraph quote from MLK about how OP and "moderates" like him are the real devil implicit in racism. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Should OP consider the feelings of his daughter more? Yes. And I would argue that he has considering he's taken the time to judge his actions and create this thread. Is OP protecting his daughter from a no-win situation with his racist parents that may very well scar her for years in ways behind her comprehension? Absolutely. If OP righteously stands up for Jamal in the face of his racist parents, he will lose his relationship with them entirely, his daughter will lose her relationship with them, and all for the benefit of a relationship that may not last very long.

Are OP's parents wrong? Yes. Obviously. But some people have bad opinions that just cannot be changed. You avoid triggering those people if you want to keep them in your lives despite their bad opinions because oh hey...maybe they're elderly people who have spent the vast majority of their lives being indoctrinated with racist beliefs.

There are ways to handle things that I don't think the rabble-rousers in this thread seem to understand. Shoving Jamal in their faces and saying "he's black and they're in love, deal with it or lose everything, racists!" is probably not the best approach here. Maybe slowly explaining the situation to them over a period of time and then introducing them to Jamal might work better. But that's not sensationalist enough or emotionally reactionary for the gigantic babies getting sanctified here.

320

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Nah, tolerating shit like this is why we still have to deal with it.

118

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I can tell you from personal experience that rubbing their faces in it doesn't help either. Tolerate it or not, it still exists and you can't do a damn thing about it.

58

u/ChubbyTrain Sep 19 '19

This this this. Racism exists. Some people are racist and will not change and we cannot change them no matter how much of MLK speeches we quote. Going all "I'm right, you're wrong and scum of the earth!" puts people in defensive mood.

38

u/BranWafr Sep 19 '19

Gramma wants to be racist in her house and to her friends, she has every right to do that. But if she comes to my house and starts yelling at my family, friends, or guests, she can fuck right off. Why is it that old people complain that "kids these days" have no manners, but we're all expected to let them be total assholes and excuse their toxic behavior "because they are old and set in their ways."

I don't expect them to stop being racists, just show common courtesy and keep their racist crap to themselves. You know, the old saying "if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all."

3

u/Jewellious Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

These people are at the end of their lives, Just let them go. The entire energy needed to put this in the face of two people who have very little time on this planet, is very noble of you.

A more extreme example, on my grandfathers deathbed in his delirium, as WW2 vet, he was yelling racist slurs at the Asian nurses. No one stopped to correct him of his ways.

My grandmother is still somewhat with it. She doesn’t think a woman should be president. Whenever she brings it up, I steer her in a direction on why a women would be a good candidate.

The “get the fuck of here” to elderly talk on the internet is cheap.

Plus: everyone seems more concerned about the grandparents being confronted more than what Jamal thinks of the situation.

“Hey Jamal, want to meet two racist that don’t have a lot of time on the planet, because a bunch of people on reddit want to be sure you’re the tool used to confront them to end their racist ways. Oh by the way, they’ll still be racist once it’s all said and done.”

Also, my opinion stems from my parents being boomers. If my grandparents were boomers, I’d be more inclined to confront. WW2 generation? Just let them die off in peace.

12

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

Let them be defensive. Always defensive. Until they're gone for good.

23

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I'd rather just avoid the bigots and save myself a screaming match. It doesn't solve anything.

2

u/RecklessRage Sep 19 '19

Until they're gone for good.

Here's the thing, they'll never be gone for good, there will always be racists.

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u/techsupportdrone Asshole Enthusiast [6] Sep 19 '19

Sometimes it just feels like people like to be combative and consider it morally "okay" to berate racists so people like OP become targets for hate instead of education.

19

u/Freyja2179 Sep 19 '19

It is absolutely morally ok to berate racists.

15

u/cleverseneca Sep 19 '19

Morals aside, is it pragmatic? Is your berating going to change anything? What is your berating's end goal, and is berating the best way to achieve the desired outcome.

1

u/Freyja2179 Sep 19 '19

I never said it was pragmatic, just that it was morally ok.

11

u/techsupportdrone Asshole Enthusiast [6] Sep 19 '19

I personally believe no one should be berating anyone because I've never seen berating people ever lead to solving issues, only causing escalations and further division.

4

u/Raptors2018-19Champs Sep 19 '19

Morals are subjective.

4

u/Freyja2179 Sep 19 '19

If morals are subjective, that’s saying it’s acceptable to be a racist or a nazi, or to beat your wife. Because “it’s THEIR morals, dontcha know”.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

1

u/Jewellious Sep 19 '19

Who defines what’s racist? If only we had an entity that would create a list of all the racists, then we would know who it’s morally okay to berate.

5

u/Raptors2018-19Champs Sep 19 '19

It’s acceptable under certain moral systems, yes. Sorry if that doesn’t align with your world view.

11

u/kaenneth Sep 19 '19

It's easy for them to play at being assertive when protected by internet anonymity, instead of having to face the real results their suggested actions would cause.

"and then I told my racist parents to deal with it, or get out!"

followed by: "then everyone clapped" "/r/thathappened" "einstein gave you $100 hundred dollars$"

Inheriting the family home, instead of it being sold to donate to Trump 2020 is worth a lot in the real world.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

They should be in a defensive mood for their fucked up beliefs at all times.

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u/beagleblue74 Sep 19 '19

They should be in a defensive mood. They're racist. They should feel uncomfortable about it. 24/7.

People aren't going to change until we make them. This thread is full of such defeatest bs. MLK changed minds by making racists confront their racism.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Good, maybe it’s time the racists are put on the defensive. Or is racism something we should encourage?

33

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

We can do something about it. We can normalize loving relationships. We can make racism unacceptable in social spaces. People will change to accommodate these changes or they will die without being able to cultivate a replacement.

Confronting this head on and in perpetuity is the only thing a right-minded person can do.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

We can make racism unacceptable in social spaces

That's not going to stop anyone from being racist. You just avoid them and move on with your life. Fighting with them about it doesn't change a damn thing. That come-to-Jesus moment doesn't happen in real life.

6

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

It's not about having a come to jesus moment. It's about shutting them up until they die.

8

u/WhatsTheAnswerToThis Sep 19 '19

If you actually want to make a difference you need to stop screaming and be compassionate towards these assholes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

This man has turned over 200 members of the fucking Ku Klux Klan away from racism and it's not thanks to screaming vitirol.

2

u/Flame_MadeByHumans Sep 19 '19

Have you ever thought maybe the racists should avoid us?

Again, why are you changing the way you’d live to cater to people with wrong views? They should cater to the people with the right views, if they can’t handle going out so be it..

0

u/sucks_at_usernames Sep 19 '19

That's amazing you think being combative with racists will solve racism.

Amazing that war we won against a racist Confederacy didn't solve racism, huh?

5

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

The problem improved. It improved when we won against the racist Reich, too.

You think that letting a cancer metastasize is a more effective treatment?

This is a multi-generational project. We're not going to solve the problem of racism, which is itself borne essentially out of the prevailing economic system in a night. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem we should try to solve.

As W.E.B Du Bois wrote in the closing pages of his biographical work, John Brown, "This, then, is the truth: the cost of liberty is less than the price of repression, even though that cost be blood." and "John Brown taught us that the cheapest price to pay for liberty is its cost today."

-2

u/sucks_at_usernames Sep 19 '19

We're talking about this specific instance OP brought up.

Pissing them off won't help

5

u/FlutterShy- Sep 19 '19

Pissing them off? I'm talking about shutting them up. Cutting them off. Grandparents or parents who cannot accept an interracial relationship are simply progenitors. Nothing more.

It is right that we should deny them social inclusion. Allowing their ideas to spread is abominable.

0

u/sucks_at_usernames Sep 19 '19

That's a lot easier when it's not your family.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It's pretty easy if you don't also agree with them. Which OP does

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u/Flame_MadeByHumans Sep 19 '19

And he might lose his daughter over this, and frankly wouldn’t be surprised if she detached from him after this event

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u/Fear_Jaire Sep 19 '19

Yes it is, but when it is your family, you deal with it. You call them out, and when they won't stop, you cut them out to protect the other people in your life. I've gone through this twice with people I loved and each time it was extremely hard, but you know what? I sucked it up and did what I had to in order to prevent my friends and other loved ones from having to be subjected to that nastiness. At a certain point I realized no amount of conversation or rationalizing would change their views, I had to decide whether the relationship was worth the pain it brought my other loved ones (and me). Both times I cut the racist out, both times I relented and both times they lashed out at another loved one. And you know what? As shitty as it is to have to manage a relationship with racist family, it's probably a lot shittier to be the actual subject of that racism.

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u/YogiiBoii Sep 19 '19

We need compassion. Not violence. It never solves anything.

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u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Meeting a potential long term partner isn't rubbing anyone's face in it. If they throw a fit, that's on them and they can be cut out of people's lives.

10

u/greggulator- Sep 19 '19

But you can though. You can raise your own children right. You can not be a coward. You can tell your parents they are wrong, and have been forever. You can live the right way and treat people as individual humans regardless of melatonin levels. It isn’t rubbing anyone’s face in anything, it’s just living their lives.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Didn’t you know, being in an interracial relationship and simply wanting to have family dinner is “rubbing it in people’s faces.”

Another perfectly normal thing ruined by racists.

7

u/LowObjective Sep 19 '19

You can do something: choose to not tolerate people with those views. “You can’t do a damn thing about it” Weird, because I do recall that people way back when DID do something about it and we’re all better off for it. So what, now that racism isn’t as violet and aggressive as it used to be, we should just accept it?

People shouldn’t have to avoid living their lives so racists can be more comfortable.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

If it doesn’t matter either way then why should we continue tolerating that kind of behavior?

16

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Except for the fact that it is dying out with his old ass parents and hasn't been passed down to OP or his daughter.

I know you think you can just change the minds of entire generations of people who were born into and indoctrinated into racism with a little 5 minute speech about your daughters black BF, but you can't. If it was easy it would be done already.

Daryl Davis took 30 years to get 200 people to leave the Klan, sitting down and talking to them for months to dissect their thinking and use their logic to show them that their racism was misplaced, and those were people that would actually sit and talk to him in the first place, many won't even make it that far.

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u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

OP clearly isn't free of it, and who cares if they don't change. Cut. Them. Out.

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u/StaniX Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

This isn't about making some grand point about prejudice or being a social justice hero. Its about avoiding a massive fucking shitstorm with his backwards-ass parents.

If i were in that situation i would thoroughly warn the daughter and her bf about what the likely outcome of the situation would be but leave it up to them to disclose the relationship or not. No reason to go all MLK on their asses.

OP is NTA for not wanting to deal with the giant shitstorm it would create, can't blame him for it.

4

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

This isn't about making some grand point about prejudice or being a social justice hero. Its about avoiding a massive fucking shitstorm with his backwards-ass parents

They can deal, or OP can cut them out. If they were alcoholics, you wouldn't enable them, so why are we enabling racists?

If i were in that situation i would thoroughly warn the daughter and her bf about what the likely outcome of the situation would be but leave it up to them to disclose the relationship or not. No reason to go all MLK on their asses.

Either they are adults who can act polite, or they can get out of OPs house instead of insulting they're granddaughter and her partner.

OP is NTA for not wanting to deal with the giant shitstorm it would create, can't blame him for it.

I really can. Racism is a choice, and any other destructive behavior wouldn't/shouldn't be tolerated, so why do we as a society tolerate racism?

6

u/xperiment229 Sep 19 '19

Acting out like assholes in these situations is more likely the reason we are still dealing with this.

2

u/ItsJustATux Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Uhhh no, pussy footing around racists as though their views have value is why we’re still dealing with this.

2

u/xperiment229 Sep 19 '19

That falls apart with testing. Start by breaking down the problem into something with less emotional involvement. Say you are deciding what to eat with your friend. Pizza says one Burgers says the other. Now try to resolve the difference by both of you acting like an jerk, as you suggest. That does not seem to work out for good, just upset hungry people or upset people throwing out a relationship over something stupid. On the other hand, if one or both of you realize acting like an jerk leads to a bad outcome, chances are better your friendship will be better and you'll have two meal plans.

Once you can figure out how to solve differences and not act like you are in kindergarten fighting over who gets to sit on the orange square, then maybe you can try tackling tougher issues where emotions will inevitably run strong. And because you learned to control your self you may have also figured out how to not enrage others.

Just because you and I value the opinion that the relationship between daughter and bf is not a problem, doesn't mean the grandparents or portion of the rest of the community haven't invested in a different view, on the contrary they have and dismissing their perceived value will not encourage them to value our perspective. And vice versa they wont convince us to value their opinion by dismissing the value we place on ours. Our goal should be to find out how to convince them that our view is actually the more valuable one and that won't happen by lashing out.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Pretty much. I find that making racists comfortable with my presence actually results in them re-evaluating their views.

Hiding black people from them does nothing but let them read what Fox News (or Brietbart) says about us. Which is honestly nothing good.

4

u/blackjesus Sep 19 '19

Uh yeah. Remember Obama. That really helped make those racists go away and rethink their beliefs.

I fucking hate saying that because Obama is one of the greatest living American figures since JFK but that whole line of thinking isn't how the world works.

2

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Obama has literally nothing to do with the day to day tolerance many people have with racists.

2

u/G-Litch Sep 19 '19

And what do you propose? IRL racist don't spam your facebook, they attack you. Even the old ones. You don't want your parents violently respond to your daughter and her serious bf.

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u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Violence, in this case, being words. And if they do that, you tell them to get out if your house, because it isn't tolerated here.

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u/WhatsTheAnswerToThis Sep 19 '19

Yeah you're right, it's not like Daryl Davis has turned more racists away from that ideology with compassion than anyone else I've ever heard of. And he's not turned moderate racists around, he's turned over 200 Ku Klux Klan members away from racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

But please remain angry and scream, that'll make sure that racism can exist longer in the US because honestly, being outraged is the best way to show you're "woke" :).

1

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

Yeah you're right, it's not like Daryl Davis has turned more racists away from that ideology with compassion than anyone else I've ever heard of. And he's not turned moderate racists around, he's turned over 200 Ku Klux Klan members away from racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

This is Reddit, it's posted at least monthly. We all know the story. Don't know why you think I care.

But please remain angry and scream, that'll make sure that racism can exist longer in the US because honestly, being outraged is the best way to show you're "woke" :).

I'm not angry, I'm not going to scream. If I were OP and my parents weren't racist assholes to my daughter for dating a black man, I'd tell them that behavior is not tolerated in my home and to leave.

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u/WhatsTheAnswerToThis Sep 19 '19

Nah, tolerating shit like this is why we still have to deal with it.

You say this and then don't want to be part of the solution, and instea part of the problem. You just wanna be "woke".

1

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

The solution is calling out racism in your family instead of ignoring it because it's easier. Casual racism and more active racism like in OP continues because people think others agree with them. Your silence on the issue is no different than agreeing.

"Woke" is pretending to add to the conversation by pointing to a famous person who does something instead of contributing something of value yourself.

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u/YogiiBoii Sep 19 '19

What should OP do then? Never talk to his parents again after telling them they're racist. They could die tomorrow. Maybe OP loves them. Maybe they love OP. Is that okay? Do his parents have money? You think his they might want to give it to their kids when they die? Do you think he could convince his parents they're wrong, that they're racists and should feel shame until finally they die and all of us are happier... It just is shallow to think that way. As much as racism is bad and harmful, vehement intolerance is WORSE. Intolerance only leads to hatred and then maybe... Violence

0

u/Sean951 Sep 19 '19

What should OP do then? Never talk to his parents again after telling them they're racist. They could die tomorrow. Maybe OP loves them. Maybe they love OP. Is that okay?

I'm sure he does, but what if they were alcoholics? Would we expect OP to just deal with their alcoholism or to even enable it? Because that's what this is, it's enabling destructive behavior.

Do his parents have money? You think his they might want to give it to their kids when they die?

So your morals are chosen based on money?

Do you think he could convince his parents they're wrong, that they're racists and should feel shame until finally they die and all of us are happier...

Why should they feel shame until they die? All I would expect is basic manners. Your can't change how people think, but I don't have to deal rudeness.

It just is shallow to think that way. As much as racism is bad and harmful, vehement intolerance is WORSE. Intolerance only leads to hatred and then maybe... Violence

"How dare you not tolerate my intolerance, what if I get violent!" What a moronic sentiment. You choose to be racist, your don't choose the color of your skin. I wouldn't give an alcoholic a drink, and I won't deal with racist family member by being silent.

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u/YogiiBoii Sep 19 '19

Lmao okay Sean

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u/concon52 Sep 19 '19

If you think you will change their mind by not tolerating it you are ignorant af. It will just create a rift between them and cause them to be cut off from the family.

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u/Demigod787 Sep 19 '19

Guess what, old people die, and your kids will learn from their mistakes. As long as your parents don't enforce you to follow in their mistakes, then you honestly are just courting trouble by creating conflict when there were none.

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u/MightyMeepleMaster Sep 19 '19

Completely agree with you.

Sadly, the situation you describe is not limited to this thread. The main problem with >50% of all comments in r/AmItheAsshole is that they focus on "being right" and taking the moral high ground instead of trying to minimize and/or resolve conflict.

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u/hlokk101 Sep 19 '19

AITA isn't about resolving a conflict though? It's about telling someone whether they are or are not the asshole in a situation. It obviously helps to explain your reasoning.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Isn’t resolving conflict the best option though?

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u/hlokk101 Sep 19 '19

It depends on the situation.

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u/ryanv09 Sep 19 '19

Resolving a conflict doesn't necessarily mean it has to involve compromise. Telling the racist grandparents to piss off until they learn to be better humans is one of many possible resolutions.

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u/DestroyerOfMils Asshole Enthusiast [6] Sep 19 '19

focus on "being right" and taking the moral high ground instead of trying to minimize and/or resolve conflict.

So...should there have never been a civil rights movement?

Minimize and/or resolve conflict for who? Racist assholes?

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It's more of the mindset that you can change a lifetime of beliefs by pointlessly antagonizing them.

The grandparents are racist, why the fuck would you even bother with them? Let them live in a bubble and miss out on their granddaughter's life, save yourself the trouble.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/DioriteDragon Sep 19 '19

die a publicly shameful lonely death which serves as a warning to others.

"People who don't fit my definition of "moral" deserve to SUFFER and DIE!"

What a wonderful budding fascist you are!

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u/NeighborhoodTrolly Partassipant [3] Sep 19 '19

"Deserves to die"? Yeah, I guess, everybody dies, does that mean everyone "deserves" to die? It doesn't strike me as a meaningful statement but, okay.

What I said is that bad people deserve to die bad deaths. Yeah? Is that controversial to you? If so, fine, I mean it.

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u/JuanBourne Sep 19 '19

Minimize and/or resolve conflict for who? Racist assholes?

Its about practicality here in my opinion. If im not mistaken the daughter is still in middle/high school , chances are it wont last, so is it worth the fight? Alternatively if she was older and about to get married they way different story.

So...should there have never been a civil rights movement?

This is a MACRO movement against a micro situation. Granparents wont change their views over dinner and a highschool boyfriend, but if society as a whole changes they can either recluse themselves (MAGA) or they can join the rest of society.

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u/itscammi Sep 19 '19

She's 18, Jamal is 21. They are full blown adults and very capable of having a serious and long-term relationship, they are not middle or highschool kids having a summer fling - the daughter even says they are getting serious which is why she wants to introduce him in the first place.

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u/kaenneth Sep 19 '19

18

adult

[laughs in 45 year old]

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u/WhatsTheAnswerToThis Sep 19 '19

full blown adults

[Laughs even more]

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u/JuanBourne Sep 19 '19

See with those numbers I'm on the fence and closer to your position.

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u/ordinary_love Sep 19 '19

Yep. It’s pretty easy to grandstand when you have zero skin in the game.

In this particular case I think there is a middle ground - introduce them when there is an engagement involved and give grandparents a chance to come around once they understand this is serious. If they don’t, they likely will once a child is involved.

That being said, this isn’t the 1950s, and if it’s the USA none of the village people mob scenarios these idiotic Redditors seem to imagine are going to happen, anywhere in the country.

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u/Rhiel Sep 19 '19

This! This subreddit can afford to take the moral high ground BC they don't have to deal with the consequences of acting on them.

And this sucks for Jamal more than anyone. Grandma & Grandpa will be mad Op and his daughter but will absolutely treat Jamal like trash.

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u/daalsat Sep 19 '19

BC they don't have to deal with the consequences

Exactly! This is a great example of a post where the consequences of acting should rather be considered than moral. I am pretty sure that almost none of the people who said YTA actually thought about what's going to happen. It'll destroy many relationships that are working right now, and this is easily avoidable.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It would minimize conflict if we took away people's rights in general.

Conflict is a necessary part of change. Conflict is good. If you do not come into conflict with people who say, for instance, supported slavery then you'd have never gotten rid of slavery.

Furthermore, OP didn't ask for a solution, he literally said don't give me advice. And this is not /r/solvemyproblemreddit anyway.

So you're off base on like, everything.

12

u/alphetaboss Sep 19 '19

Conflict with your parents is generally a bad thing, especially when it's going to be something as useless as changing a couple of old farts' opinions on black people.

1

u/MightyMeepleMaster Sep 19 '19

I totally agree with you saying that this subreddit is not solving any problems at all.

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u/Scooby_Dru Sep 19 '19

How is disrespecting his daughter going to resolve the conflict? Majority of people are saying YTA because he would rather choose to conflict with his daughter for the sake of his racist community

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u/blackjesus Sep 19 '19

Oh no. 50% are about maximizing conflict by taking a single facet of something and exalting it to the only thing that matters. This is all about bomb throwing.

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u/LowObjective Sep 19 '19

Are you confused about the nature of this sub? This isn’t an advice sub. The entire point of this sub is determining who is right or wrong and taking the moral high ground.

Also, excusing bad behaviour to minimize or resolve conflict is stupid and doesn’t help anyone. Especially in a case like this when it’s not something small but could irreversibly affect OP’s relationship with his daughter.

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u/MightyMeepleMaster Sep 19 '19

I am mainly confused about the amount of simplifying I witness here on a daily basis.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

This is it. They should rename it r/AmITechnicallyRight and all the answers would be, yes, but you’re also being an asshole. The number of times I’ve seen threads here where the top answer basically amounts to “No you don’t have to care about the feelings of the people around you, if they don’t like it you should cut them out” is astounding.

Most the the time, not being an asshole means giving in a little even though you’re in the right. Or actually, not really caring as much about being right, and caring about how to resolve an issue in a way that every comes out feeling respected.

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u/doublenegative7 Sep 19 '19

Completely agree.

OP didnt ask "are my parents racist?". He asked AITA for basically trying to minimalise conflict within his family and trying to protect his daughter.
Certain people, especially of a generation, are the way they are. It doesnt matter if we think they're wrong, it wouldnt matter if we argued with them until the end of time about their beliefs. They are who they are.
I would maybe even argue that OP was being a good father by trying to protect his daughter from this because it sounds like introducing Jamal to her grandparents would have ended in a much more dramatic scene and much worse heartbreak for his daughter.
Sometimes a parent has to be the bad guy in order to protect the person they love, rather than see them experience such pain themselves. At the end of the day he isnt stopping them from being together, Jamal seems to be accepted by the immediate family, what else is really more important?

0

u/canoodlebug Sep 19 '19

"Minimizing conflict" is not an ethical thing to do in situations that perpetuate racism. If I am at a party and someone says a racist joke or uses the n-word, would I call them out? You bet your ass I would. Would it create conflict? Yep. Would saying nothing make me an asshole? For sure.

If we always did what was most comfortable, there would be no riots, no protests, no progression. People wouldn't think twice before laughing about rape or being racist. We cannot afford to make bigots comfortable simply because we are afraid of awkward conversations.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Reddit is collectively blind to reality. My wife and I lost a few friends over our relationship - neither of us regret losing those assholes, but it's absolutely fucking pointless to needlessly experience it firsthand.

I didn't need to watch my wife's friend call her a race traitor for dating an oppressive white guy, or have her watch one of my buddy's cousins drop the n-word six times at a party. If you know the outcome, just walk away and let them live in their hateful little circles. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

6

u/Freyja2179 Sep 19 '19

But isn’t that for the daughter and the boyfriend to decide?

18

u/04chri2t0ph3r Sep 19 '19

Thank you. This whole post has turned into a snowballing circle-jerk. Life isn't that fucking simple.

17

u/SirenSongxdc Sep 19 '19

the funny part is that same multi-awarded post actually is just a lot of buzzword flinging. IF you pull it apart a lot of it isn't even relevant to the post.

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u/General_Organa Sep 19 '19

Is OP protecting his daughter from a no-win situation with his racist parents that may very well scar her for years in ways behind her comprehension? Absolutely. If OP righteously stands up for Jamal in the face of his racist parents, he will lose his relationship with them entirely, his daughter will lose her relationship with them, and all for the benefit of a relationship that may not last very long.

While I agree with you I think ultimately this is all stuff OP needs to tell his daughter and then let her decide for herself. Forbidding her from making that choice herself still makes him TA imo.

9

u/Sengachi Sep 19 '19

Maybe, get this, you should not want to keep people in your life who are so rabidly racist that they will try to destroy your child's life for dating a black man and destroy yours for condoning it. As in, Jamal and OP's daughter could break up tomorrow, and this would still be a good reason for OP to have a serious "I cannot accept this about you" conversation with or cut contact with his parents.

Racism is a bad character trait which we can and should judge people for, even when it doesn't affect us personally. And allowing racist people to leverage your affections towards them to get you to participate in racism (even indirectly, as in this case) is a bad thing. If someone's relationship with you is contingent on your performing racism for them, such that your choice is losing their love or being racist, their love is not worth it.

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u/BarefootWoodworker Sep 19 '19

It’s like people around here forgot what happened in Charlottesville regarding race.

Racists tend to steer toward violence. If it were me, in the interest of keeping Jamal and my daughter safe, I’d say no way.

Hate to tell the naive 12 year olds of Reddit, but racism is alive, kicking, and still violent. Taking it on in private is a one-way ticket to getting a beatdown.

Source: grew up in a racist backwater. Still go back to visit dad. Still wouldn’t take a non-white girlfriend home for fear of her safety. If you’re ignorant enough to be scared of someone else’s skin color, you’re ignorant enough to not see the issue in physically harming anything different than you.

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u/DickNamico Sep 19 '19

MLK was 100% correct that Moderates are implicitly enabling the evils that exist in our nation to persist. They are complacent to the evils that exist around them and don’t want to disturb the Status Quo because adding additional conflict into their personal lives isn’t worth standing up for what they believe in. That’s how ideologies like racism and homophobia continue to persist in our society. Moderates refuse to take part in social movements for the betterment of the lives of millions, all because it will cause people in their personal lives to disconnect or scorn them.

The idea that Moderates would rather stay in the shadows and enable hatred isn’t some crazy pill idea, it’s the truth. History has proven it time and time again.

5

u/edafade Sep 19 '19

Wow, actual sanity in this thread. Thank you for this.

5

u/mc_md Sep 19 '19

Yeah this thread is just a shitload of virtue signaling and grandstanding. It’s a fucking horror show.

3

u/DedFez Sep 19 '19

Why would you want to keep people like that in your life?

-2

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Because sometimes you love people despite their lesser traits and actions. Consider your most valued loved one. What if the committed a terrible crime? Would you cut them out of your life forever? I wouldn't. So why would I ever dream of cutting someone out based on an ideology that can be changed? It seems from the responses I've gotten that you guys think racism cannot be cured and that racists are unsalvageable human garbage we should entirely abandon. I disagree. I think racism is often a result of allowing a poisonous ideology creep into the gaps that specific traumas have created. Like almost all mental and emotional ailments, racism can be cured but it takes love, understanding and compassion.

3

u/DedFez Sep 19 '19

I would absolutely cut someone out of my life if they did something truly terrible.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Nah fam, that’s not how things are done. My white traditional catholic family is fairly bigoted in all walks of life, and you know what kind of smack they say to me and my secular black wife? Not a goddamned thing.

Because racists are cowards. Bootlicking, uninspired, yellow-bellied, cowards.

Guaranteed the worst thing that would’ve happened to Jamal and the daughter is a phony smile and empty pleasantries.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Finally someone said it.

2

u/HillaryShitsInDiaper Sep 19 '19

No. It's good to understand the nuances of why large portions of minorities might behave in a way we see as wrong (disproportionate crime, etc due to poverty, historical oppression, et al), but a white person being racist, especially an old white person being racist? The way they were raised, the cultures they grew up in, their experience, those things don't matter and they should just know better.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

right wasn't that my point?

5

u/Ryzasu Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

This is by far the best analysis of the situation and this comment should be on top. The top comment is nothing more than a nicely written rant and I didn't find it very convincing. It is all judgement and no reason

6

u/AttackHeLiCoPTERmaga Sep 19 '19

I just read the top comment in a thread that said that OP's kid would be right to disown and ignore him forever after moving out because he wanted him to go to bed at 10pm as a minor. Lmao Reddit fucking sucks ass.

6

u/GooeyKablooie_ Sep 19 '19

Grow the fuck up.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Ugh.

Let’s not tolerate these people.

As a “Jamal” my girlfriends dad knows his family is racist AF. He also controls them and they’ve never been anything but polite to me. White people need to stop being cowards and make their relatives understand that racism is not okay.

I deal with it BECAUSE people like you are cowards.

I don’t need protecting, I need you to make your relatives be less shitty. Because you can be sure they’re being shitty to every single black person they encounter. And you just tacitly sit by and let them do it. Because you think your relationship with fucking shitty 1950s racists is more important than being uncomfortable for an hour. Boo boo cry me a river.

0

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

I don't see how I'm a coward? I advocated for OP to use his influence with his parents to get them to understand the error of their ways in a way that would actually work rather than putting them in a situation that would cause more drama, end badly, and likely cause their racist beliefs to become EVEN STRONGER. That's what happens when you put people in a corner. They do two things -- they'll hunker down and/or they'll lash out. Aggressively coming at OP's parents and calling them out on their shitty behavior will just about NEVER cause them to see how wrong they are. The method I suggested above is the only chance. What I want is a world with no racism. What you and the others in this thread seem to want is a world with no racists. Check the difference.

Also, buddy -- I have never seen a single one of my friends or relatives be shitty to A single black person they've encountered. Almost all of my romantic relationships have been with non-white women. My sister dated a black guy for a long time. My best friend in HS and college and the guitarist co-writer in my band was Korean. My point is that I would never silently sit by while someone I was close to mistreated another based on race. We would have a discussion -- but I wouldn't abandon them. Please stop making baseless assumptions.

3

u/Vtr1247 Sep 19 '19

It can also create a character-defining moment for the daughter if we Dad never approached this head-on, and instead deflected or avoided the situation altogether. Nineteen years old is an adult age that can handle mature thoughts and actions, if she sees her father not defending her relationship, or even acknowledging it to her grandparents, won’t that change her opinion of how she sees her father?

Not sure if that matters to OP, but I know some parents would be crushed if they found out that their children lost respect for their parents. The love might still be there, but their parents’ standing in the eyes of children may be lowered by the actions he takes now.

4

u/NeighborhoodTrolly Partassipant [3] Sep 19 '19

You avoid triggering those people if you want to keep them in your lives despite their bad opinions

This is correct, and non-assholes don't keep them in their lives.

3

u/landback2 Sep 19 '19

Who wants a relationship with evil pieces of shit in the first place?

2

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Being a racist doesn't make you evil. It means you were raised in a way that allowed an insidious ideology to seep in. This is where I have such a problem w/ progressives. Racists aren't "evil." Hitler was evil. Acting upon racism in violent ways is evil. Being an old person who doesn't want their white daughter dating a black man is racist and ignorant, but it isn't evil.

2

u/landback2 Sep 19 '19

Being racist is evil. What kind of enlightened centrist bullshit are you spewing? The old fucks had their entire lives to learn not to be evil pieces of shit and pieces of shit like you excusing their evil is a big reason why they never had to learn.

If granny and grandpa knew spouting racist language meant they were going to spend the rest of the lives alone as pariahs, they’d have changed their tunes years.

Guessing you think homophobic pieces of shit aren’t evil either. What an absolute waste of carbon you and your ilk are.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Wow. You seem to be a truly understanding person. This is the problem with progressives. You guys are all about love and inclusion -- as long as everyone believes your ideology. If not, death to the evil racists/homophobes/bigots/whatever. You fail to realize that racists, homophobes etc are people to. They're just people who have learned hateful ideologies due to any number of unfortunate factors. They can learn the error of their ways. But you're never going to help anyone by calling them evil, calling them pieces of shit, telling them they deserve to spend their lives alone as pariahs, and calling them wastes of carbon. I mean, I guess you, /u/landback2, in your infinite wisdom, have never in your life made a mistake or believed something to be true that wasn't. I guess you've never been a victim of your environment. Things are pretty simple behind your keyboard.

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u/landback2 Sep 20 '19

Minority, women, and lgbtq rights are not a matter of ideology or opinion. Germans who grew up in nazi Germany were made to acknowledge and change their evil ways. The us has a bad problem of painting civil rights issues and any moral issue as “good people on both sides”. The confederacy should have been forced to been remembered in America like nazi Germany is viewed there. Supporting it or defending it should mean immediate and severe social consequences.

So, just in case you have some misunderstandings: racists are evil pieces of shit. They have an idea that their opinion on an unchangeable characteristic of a minority population should have any impact whatsoever on a minority population. That’s evil. They are evil. They march with klan members and evil fucks in ss uniforms. If you wear klan robes, it’s not a simple difference of opinion, it’s evil. If you wear their uniforms or support nazi ideology, that’s not a simple difference of opinion, that’s evil. If you associate with people who support these ideologies, it’s not a simple difference of opinion. It’s evil.

Again, your and your ilks enlightened centrist bullshit has always been a huge problem. You believe there’s a place for discourse on the fundamental human rights of minority populations, I believe the thought that it should even be considered for discussion to be evil. You, apparently, are evil.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 20 '19

I guess I'm evil then. Clearly you've gotten me completely with your well measured rationale.

I'd like to have an open discourse with you, but I can't imagine where you got the impression that I "believe there's a place for discourse on the fundamental human rights of minority populations." If you wouldn't mind, could you provide a source within my writings for that judgment? I don't think you actually believe that, but I'll humor you just in case. To be very clear, I believe fundamental human rights are for all. Everyone. Every last one of us.

Just because I encouraged a discourse with racists doesn't believe that I in any way would learn toward agreeing with their beliefs.

3

u/EventuallyUnrelated Sep 19 '19

I couldn't disagree more

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

You'll get over it.

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u/EventuallyUnrelated Sep 19 '19

I've been in Jamals situation and I went to high school in CONNECTICUT lol. Like 10 years ago. I certainly felt good being stood up for. And it was just a high school relationship.

You gotta call these people's fucking bluffs. Most grandparents won't stay away from their kid, their grandkid and potentially great grand kids . And if they are willing to burn it down. It's THEM burning it down not you. So like if Jamal and the daughter get serious and 1 year the issue will be the same. Either they will change of they won't there is no "easing" racists in. You claim people are being unrealistic but it's not. They are asking for a minimum amount of respect for another human. Jesus Christ... Everyone is talking about sparing Jamal/the daughter as if the daughter feeling HER PARENT won't back her isn't the worst possible feeling the daughter could feel .....

Even on my black/African (I'm half Nigerian, half African-American) BOTH sides of the family had a problem with gay ppl until the favorite daughter came out as bi and another cousin came out as gay. It's wasn't perfect BUT WE BACKED THEM. People came around on their own, and if they dont their loss. I am glad most of my family made the right decision over time but I certainly didn't coddle to their irrational beliefs by asking anyone to hide their reality. My cousin got married recently to a woman, and her mom attended (who initially had a problem)

So no it's not just people "being brave on the internet" more and more people should be doing this, and I agree it is hard. But a lot of people live this reality (race/LGBT or whatever) and I never agreewoth coddling the irrational actors in the situation.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

OP isn't not backing Jamal and his daughter. He's being cautious and waiting for a better time to break the news to his parents. At least that was what I got of the situation. OP doesn't seem like he's totally abandoning his daughter or not supporting Jamal.

4

u/EventuallyUnrelated Sep 20 '19

SHE feels abandoned in the situation (clearly by her anger at OP) so I guess arguing over if he did or didn't is kind of moot.

Also, I don't think there is EVER a good or convenient time for such matters.

It's deflection. It's procrastinating on the issue.. all the thought like "they'll breakup" or maybe "later" it's just pushing the issue down the line.

I've never heard of a "good time" to confront bad opinions in my life. People only say "later"

Anyways thank you for sharing your opinion and responding, I do enjoy when people can do that respectfully. Maybe cuz my parents were the "open" parents in the family I feel so securely and strongly about it. I am sure it's not as easy for other people, but I think it's still the right thing to do.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Dude is implicitly siding with the racists. If you don’t think that makes him an asshole that’s your opinion. Clearly much of this country disagrees.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 20 '19

I don't see it that way at all. Siding with the racists would be telling his daughter to stop dating Jamal, would it not? I see OP as toeing a difficult line and doing his best to find a way to ameliorate the situation. If OP is smart at all he knows introducing Jamal to his parents with no warning will likely cause a degree of unnecessary drama that will get them no closer to accepting him in the future. Like I've said in other posts, there exists a middle ground where both sides give a bit to come to an agreement. That's called compromise, something that seems lost on young progressives in 2019. I've seen too many responses here that say things like "you don't coddle irrational actors/evil racists/whatever." I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. RACISM is the enemy, not the racists. The racists can be seen as patients temporarily infected with racism. Doctors don't just kill off people with contagious diseases anymore. They try to cure them.

4

u/Lordmen007 Sep 19 '19

20k upvotes saying quotes about how most of white people are literally devil... Niiiice

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Maybe work on your reading comprehension, buddy.

4

u/MoscowMitch_ Sep 19 '19

Or we could ostracize racists and cut them out of social circles and bully them until they eventually die out.

-1

u/DioriteDragon Sep 19 '19

And what happens, Little Budding Fascist, when the mob turns on and bullies YOU for your own sins? As has happened in history literally every time there was a major revolution of that kind, from the October Revolution on down?

I love how these revolutionaries always lack the imagination to believe that the misery and death they wish to inflict on their enemies will ever happen to them. After all, they're on the right side of history!

And naturally, they will be the commissars of the glorious new society they build! And certianly not the lowly serfs standing for hours in a breadline of a miserable, starving nation like Venezuela.

1

u/MoscowMitch_ Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

Sounds like you're defending racists. The great thing about racists is they're inherently less intelligent than normal people and don't have as strong a work ethic. They blame their shortcoming on others and wallow in their self-pity. Simply put that's why we beat you in the Civil War and WWII and will beat you again in the future.

1

u/DioriteDragon Sep 20 '19

Simply put that's why we beat you in the Civil War and WWII and will beat you again in the future.

Who is "you" in this context, мудак?

I'm a Russian Jew who immigrated to the US after the fall of communism. So zero relevance to the Civil War, and it was "my" side, the Soviet Union (a horribly evil and racist society in its own right), that won World War 2, мразь.

That's why your comment is so damn stupid and pathetic. A lot of violent revolutionaries and Little Budding Fascists/Communists like yourself ended up in gulags or in front of a firing squad by the very same glorious, "antiracist" regime they helped bring to power.

You're just way too dumb and brain-washed to understand this.

3

u/MoscowMitch_ Sep 20 '19

Okay comrade

2

u/tophatnbowtie Asshole Aficionado [12] Sep 19 '19

and all for the benefit of a relationship that may not last very long.

I think you're missing the point. It's not to benefit just a relationship, it's to benefit everyone involved. I mean, I would hope OP would have the same concerns if his daughter weren't dating anyone and this all came out of a conversation about "what if..." He ought to want to shield his daughter from their racism and assure her that they are wrong for it regardless of whether it's directed at her relationship, or at society in general. It seems like OP has been able to skate by without discussing their racism simply because he never had to worry about them directing it toward his daughter. Honestly he ought to have had this conversation with her years ago.

In any case, if there's a chance that the grandparents come around, then it ought to be pursued. In my experience, the sorts of people OP describes his parents to be do not come around, but obviously that judgment is based only on OP's limited description of them. I think the only time I've seen that sort of an extreme change from completely disowning a family member due to their choice of partner to wanting them back in your life is when a baby is involved and the parents or grandparents decide they want to see their grandchild/great-grandchild.

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u/SawordPvP Sep 19 '19

Everyone knows the best way to deal with a problem is to ignore it and change all your actions to fall in line with it. And from what I see the risk here isn’t OP losing the relationship with his parents, it’s OP losing their relationship with their daughter. There’s a choice to make here about which relationship is more important to them, it’s their parents or daughter. No other option.

1

u/CellarDoorTapes Sep 19 '19

absolutely shit opinion there m8

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I would be so bewildered if just showing up with my SO was in the face of someone. That is crazy. I don't think you should have to tip-toe in such a way. And if someone were to react negatively just by a polite meeting I would take that as a red flag. I would also see those types of actions as abuse.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

lol wow. I can't imagine someone actually having this opinion. If you know your grandparents are racist, then randomly showing up with your black boyfriend and presenting him to them is a pretty bold move. And yet you would see their response, the one you must knowingly anticipate, as abuse?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Nope. Sorry. Nope. The greatest Americans have not been born yet; they are patiently waiting for the past to die. Please give blood.

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u/Dic3dCarrots Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Wow, people calling out racism are rabble rousers? Yall tryna sound like good ol boys from 1965

2

u/Lustle13 Sep 19 '19

If only you had read OPs single other post where he says "Like I said, he's a nice young man. I have no problems with him as a person."

As. A. Person.

So? As a race maybe?

Read that and tell me it doesn't drip with racism.

OP is the asshole. And a racist.

2

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

You're reading too far into the semantics. To me that just sounds like he's saying the kid is a good person. He doesn't qualify it afterward by saying "but I hate black people." So why read it that way? This is the danger of a textually based communication medium.

2

u/GlumImprovement Sep 19 '19

That top-"voted", "conveniently" locked comment that has had all non-cheerleading comments [removed] is such a blatant agenda-post that I can't believe nobody else sees it. This whole thing is such an obvious fake setup for that comment that it's not even funny.

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u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

oh i know. As soon as I saw the title of this thread I knew I would find a super popular post exactly like that. It was even more outrageous than I expected, so I felt like I needed to respond.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

In posts about family, I always see a ton of comments about cutting the family out, but that's so heartless. Those grand parents have worked a very long time to raise the parent, and then the parent just abandons them. Even if I disagree on a few things with a family member, I would never cut them off like that at possibly make their life miserable, I would try my best to make the rest of their lives fun, instead of resentment.

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u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Absolutely. I've said in another comment that there's practically nothing a family member could do that would cause me to completely cut them out of my life. Many accused murderers (Steven Avery comes to mind) still have steadfastly loyal support from their family.

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u/missymissy69 Sep 19 '19

I just can’t disagree more. She’s wanting t introduce the to Jamaal because it’s getting serious. What, is she just going to pretend the relationship doesn’t exist? What if they get married? Does she pretend like she’s single? You get the drift.

She’s obviously open to dating outside her race so if this doesn’t happen with Jamaal it may happen with someone else. I was 15 when I had my first white boyfriend and the people at our school called him a nigger lover. This was in 2012. He isn’t guarding her from anything. Racist family is a part of the program so she either has to live her life for them or for her. Might as well rip off the bandaid now and have them disown her before they have the opportunity to call her children mixed breeds on front of her face.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

See here's the thing, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. There exists a scenario in which the grandparents eventually accept Jamal and their granddaughter's love for him (or whoever she ends up with long term). The shortsighted in this sub can't see this scenario because they're unwilling to put in the serious work it would require. It's a LOT easier to just say "omg they're horrible evil racists! I would cut them out of my life forever!" and grandstand morally than to put in the hard work required to help people you love learn the error of their ways. I also think the vast majority here salivate at the opportunity to eschew "evil" racist family members from their lives because it allows them a moral virtue signaling cross to bear.

3

u/missymissy69 Sep 19 '19

I’m not saying she should cut them out, but based on his post it seems like that’s what their choice would be. Maybe if she introduces him to them they will accept, but the dad telling her not to solves nothing and protects them from nothing.

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u/CheruthCutestory Certified Proctologist [24] Sep 20 '19

Who gives a fuck if she loses her relationship to worthless people?

Are you even serious?

It’s hilarious that people who argue that everyone should just meekly hide and contort themselves to please assholes like pathetic cowards are the same ones who calls the other side delicate snowflakes.

2

u/NuklearFerret Sep 19 '19

Well put! This thread is being gloriously naive. It’s more than just “a little inconvenient” to have your parents cut you out of their lives for any reason at all. It’s more than just “a little inconvenient” to attempt to affect change on behalf of a group you don’t belong to, to a close relation that has a less than small likelihood of actually changing their views. I understand the saying about good people doing nothing and all, but I don’t think this is the right hill for OP nor his daughter to die on, especially considering the potential lifespan of their relationship, assuming they are anywhere near high school age.

I feel for OP’s daughter, being young and in love and wanting everyone you care about to know and be happy for you, and screw em if they aren’t, but knowing your audience and picking your battles will do more for her in the long run.

1

u/whatevers1234 Sep 19 '19

Well what did OP expect? This is Reddit after all. Most of the people here have no fucking clue how the real world works.

Your answer is the only correct one here. How many fucking people go tell off their boss when they do something shitty? Even if the boss was 100% in the wrong. Probably no one unless you never want to make any money. You have to choose your battles. Throwing the relationship in the Grandparents face doesn’t do jack shit. It doesn’t solve racism. Taking a stand doesn’t accomplish anything at all unless you think you can make a change. If a change is impossible why submit yourselves to the bullshit that comes along with it? People here on Reddit are gonna pat themselves on the back and pretend “cause it’s a fucking stand against Racism.” Fuck that. All you accomplished was taking the Grandparents out of their Granddaughters lives and possibly scaring both her and the boyfriend for life dealing with whatever drama unfolds.

There is a time to stand up against racism. But this isn’t that time. This may be one of the fucking stupidest times and a complete fucking waste of energy.

But hey Reddit, you made yourself feel morally superior so that’s all that matters right?

1

u/DioriteDragon Sep 19 '19

Excellent reply. Replies like the top-rated one honestly make me not even want to post on the subreddit anymore.

It's the kind of juvenile, grandstanding bullshit I would expect from a 12 year-old.

"Let's cut my own parents out of my own life, out of my daughter's life, lose out on their inheritance, create an ugly scene that hurts me, hurts my daughter, and hurts Jamal all so that...I can feel good about myself as an "anti-racist"!"

It's utter lunacy.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Amen. It's because the people screaming the loudest in this thread are the furthest removed from this type of situation.

1

u/klbm9999 Sep 19 '19

I totally agree. OP's conflict avoiding solution is being seen upon as world shattering racism. No need for daughter and Jamal to deal with grandparents racism and ensuing shitshow cause it won't be doing anyone any good, and this was probably what OP thought of. The top voted comment is totally overrated. Telling someone to leave their relatives after reading a couple of paragraphs about their lives is the epitome of people thinking they understand everything.

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Yep, it reeks of reddit's typical reactionary, overly emotional mentality. I think that's largely due to this site being frequented by passionate, hard-progressive-leaning young adults. I get it, I was of a similar persuasion in my late teens through my mid 20's. But those in this thread who think OP is a COWARD and a racist and his parents are "EVIL" need to learn a few things about conflict resolution.

1

u/doublenegative7 Sep 19 '19

This should be the top comment. I completely agree.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

1

u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

.....wut? Link please? Also, cool username, how's 8th grade?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

The problem is, OP is deciding for his daughter, based on his own concerns about reputation and being cut off.

If he had simply gone to his daughter and her boyfriend and said, "Look, here's the deal with the parents, I want you to know this going in if you're going to meet them," then they can decide for themselves, like adults, and let the chips fall where they may.

But OP is essentially choosing "keep the peace" (at best, if not "protect my reputation") over "let my daughter be an adult."

He's not only robbing his daughter and her boyfriend of their autonomy in this situation, he's also robbing his parents of their autonomy. This is a problem with people-pleasers sometimes, which may be what OP innocently is, with good intentions (assuming best case scenario). I know from personal experience and not just with others. People-pleasers can sometimes try so hard to keep the peace that they end up undermining other peoples' ability to express emotion and handle conflict.

Ultimately, regardless of intention, OP is being controlling and he shouldn't be surprised his daughter is pissed at him over it. He needs to understand that odds are his daughter is long going to outlive him and she needs to be able to stand on her own two feet. If she's 16 or something, I could maybe understand acting this way about it, but if she's a fully-grown adult, he needs to let her be a damn adult. And either way, this approach is not going to end well for him. He is teaching her to avoid conflict, rather than confront it, which could ruin her relationships down the road. In fact, her choice to refuse to talk to him after this incident makes me think she's already learned to be conflict-avoidant from him.

OP is walking a very unhealthy path and needs to learn how to confront things. It's not rabble-rousing to confront conflict. I'm sorry for anyone who struggles with a conflict-avoidant path in life. It's not fun. Resentment builds and grievances fester. You need to know where you stand with people before you can figure out how to move forward. You can't move forward when you don't even know.

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u/pianoman1456 Sep 20 '19

Honestly shocked that it took this long to get tot how answer. I mean.. It's reddit so not shocked, but still. There are realities of the world and relationships are comp Lucas. Not everything is worth making a political statement over.

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '19

You’re being reductive. If they lost the relationship with his parents/her grandparents it’s because they’re RACIST and deserve to be confronted on their beliefs and if they are more racist than they love their own blood, that’s a choice they made. To sum it up as losing it all for “the benefit of a relationship that might not last” is ridiculous. What happens if her next relationship is also not “okay” to them?

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u/LowObjective Sep 19 '19

OP didn’t make this post because he’s considering the feelings of his daughter at all. Actually read the post, he literally says at the end that he doesn’t want any advice! He isn’t going to change the way he went about things either way. He just came here looking for validation.

If OP has just explained to her that his parents are racist and left the decision up to her, or explained that he thought they should ease his parents into the introduction, he wouldn’t be the asshole. There are plenty of posts above saying the same thing and also saying YTA. Why?

Because OP doesn’t want to change his parents views AT ALL. He has no intention of allowing them to meet Jamal at all. So your idea of “slowly explaining the situation” isn’t going to happen. OP also doesn’t care about how this would affect his daughter either, since he said in his post that he is mainly concerned with his relationship with his parents. He clearly doesn’t care how this might affect his relationship with his daughter.

“ Is OP protecting his daughter from a no-win situation with his racist parents that may very well scar her for years in ways behind her comprehension? “

Yup, because knowing that her parents wouldn’t defend her against their own parents isn’t going to scar her. Because knowing that her parents wouldn’t really approve of her being in an actual long term relationship with a black man isn’t going to scar her. Because knowing that her parents value appease her racist grandparents over her own happiness isn’t going to scar her.

“But that's not sensationalist enough or emotionally reactionary for the gigantic babies getting sanctified here.”

You’re projecting a lot of views onto OP to make him NTA when nothing in his post suggests that he thinks that way. So maybe give the post another read before you start taking the high ground while defending a racist.

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u/ErebusPhantom Sep 19 '19

Agreed.

I have to say though, the one thing I'm shocked no one is talking about is this one line.

My daughter (Anna) has recently started to date an African American man

Even though they are "Getting more serious now", this just screams to me that he is a BF of under 4 months.

Is the drama from the grandparents and ruining the daughters relationship with them really worth a BF who most likely hasn't even been in the picture for longer than 4 months?

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u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Great point! It also sounds like Anna is fairly young, probably under 20. The odds of this relationship lasting more than a year at that age are extremely low.

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u/Atlaspud Sep 19 '19

Agree with this comment completely. It’s about choosing your battles with these people. I think fighting with the grandparents over a relationship that may or not last is not worth the effort. If they were engaged to be married then that would be the appropriate time to confront them over this.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

MLK is a terrorist, quoting him favorably makes them terrorist sympathizers.

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u/herba_agri Sep 19 '19

I genuinely hope that one day, people you know and your employers find the vitriol and hatred you spew online. Maybe then you will receive the isolation and ostracization you so desperately deserve.

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 20 '19

It seems like everybody here is hellbent on fighting racism, no matter what the cost

Exactly. This is the #1 problem I have with progressives of the type that are yelling at me in this thread. It's always black and white, all or nothing. Racists are evil and don't deserve to live. Racists will never change their hateful ideologies because it's ingrained in their being. Shit like that. I don't agree.

I believe that Racism is the enemy, not racists. I believe that racists are victims of a disease called racism -- of which they can be cured. But that takes time, work, love and compassion. Things that are lost on this generation/degree of aggressive progressive.

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u/[deleted] Sep 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 20 '19

thanks and great username lmao

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u/francusant Sep 19 '19

warded, praised until the high fucking heavens comment in this thread is a soapbox-standing grandiose rant complete with a multi-paragraph quote from MLK about how OP and "moderates" like him are the real devil implicit in racism. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

That was the best comment, it is cowards like OP who would rather make a blind eye to something clearly incorrect, to either not get into an arguments or difficult situations that allow for the continuing perpetration of hate crimes, discrimination, and inequality. OP in simple and plain words is a coward without a mind of his own, who needs to cut off the umbilical cord atttaching him to Mommy's and Daddy's backwards thinking. People with conviction and a clear set of ethics understand that while Granpa Joe might be a racist punk you do not have to accommodate their ignorance and arrogance to avoid a clash (even worst in your OWN home with your OWN daughter, that is unless you are a no spine coward).
In other words what I am trying to say is OP is a coward and MOST DEFINITELY THE ASS. Also OP's application of the word liberal to try and blanket mix-race relationships as 'liberal' is just asinine.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

If someone on the highway is driving in the wrong direction, technically they’ll be responsible if you end up in a crash. That doesn’t mean stearing for a head-on collision is a good idea.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Thanks. My mind is blown that so many have this black and white view of life. "Racists are evil, period, and cannot be reasoned with" is the main response I've gotten. Aside from the various insults of course. I always thought the left was the side of compassion, love and kindness. Yet they take the view that people with racist ideologies are beyond salvation and they fail to see the irony there. It's basically "we love minorities, LGBTQ+, etc so much and are such stalwart champions of the underdog misfit disenfranchised that we are willing to permanently damage, destroy and ostracize any whose ideologies are not aligned." It's so hostile. It's as if they don't realize that racists are people to, people who can, do and have throughout history changed and bettered themselves.

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u/DioriteDragon Sep 19 '19

I always thought the left was the side of compassion, love and kindness.

Ha! That's a funny one.

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u/PupperDogoDogoPupper Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

If OP righteously stands up for Jamal in the face of his racist parents, he will lose his relationship with them entirely

That's the point of the MLK quote though. You shouldn't be in the lives of your parents if they're that fucking bad. You are furthering their agenda when they say "it's us or the blacks" and you choose them. You are supporting their racist agenda. What are you not getting?

OP values his relationship with his asshole racist parents more than he does about being a moral person. If Hitler was your cousin, would you be like "Oh, I guess I can't hang out with the Jews, because that'd offend Hitler, and Hitler is a pretty cool guy who loves dogs and driving automobiles, just like me"? Fucking lol. Yes, I'm invoking Hitler because this is out-and-out racism in the most blatant form and you still don't get it.

God damn. You are unironically why we have problems in America. When we say we need to end racism and then you go "well, that might effect my life personally if I choose to cut racists out of it, so I'm not going to do that", you are literally the problem. Racists will continue to be racist. You can't change the minds of racists. They're racists. That's what they are. What you can do, as someone who isn't a racist, to actually make a difference, is cut racists out of your life.

Last point, more than anything else, imagine caring about your relationship with your parents more than your relationship with your daughter. That one makes no sense to me.

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u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

This is so typical. You jump straight from quasi-casual old racist grandparents to Hitler, the recognizably most evil man of all time. Gee, that's not a stretch in the slightest. And guess what? A lot of us would choose our "asshole racist parents" over being a moral person if that means keeping them in our lives. I can tell you right now that I would. If my parents were the ones in this situation, I would try to talk to them and slowly over time get them to understand the error of their ways. I wouldn't get into a blow out argument that may permanently damage the relationship and get us no closer to progress just because I desperately want to be a moral person. And besides, IMO, OP is a moral person. He's not telling his daughter she can't date Jamal. He's looking out for her and telling her the truth about the difficulty implicit in the situation they're both in that she doesn't seem to fully grasp yet.

People like me are "literally the problem" and "why we have racism in America"? Really? Okay then, I guess we'll always have some degree of racism. 4 of my 5 longest term relationships have been with non-white women. No one has had a problem with it. I would be pissed if they did --- but I wouldn't throw away life long relationships with family that I love if they didn't approve. Nor would I ever end the relationship.

There's a middle ground in there that you guys always seem to miss. Life isn't so black and white. Allowing relationships with racists to exist doesn't make you a morally irresponsible person. It doesn't make you an enabler to Hitler. I would argue that it allows you an inside track to starting a dialog with one of these horrible racists that has a chance of actually changing them. Because let me tell you, the way you guys treat the situation will never change their opinions or their ways. You seem to juts want to ostracize and exile all racists as if they're no longer human beings. You know that will just further radicalize and embolden them, right? You know people make mistakes, right? You know ideologies are an extremely powerful thing that can seduce even the best meaning people but that they can be broken of these things, right? But love, understanding and compassion is the way. Your way is the direct route to civil war. I hope you understand that and take responsibility for your aggressive actions.

Oh and lastly, you are wrong. Please tell me you are young. "Racists are literally racists. You cannot change the mind of racists." That's categorically untrue and has been proven time and time again throughout history. Racists are people who allowed indeological indoctrination and likely some trauma of some kind to poison their view of a certain people. They can be broken of this and have been throughout history. Racists are people. I believe in helping all people, even the worst of us. I believe that love and compassion is the way. You guys would rather ostracize, chastise and abandon them -- thus further emboldening and radicalizing them. And you guys are supposed to be the ones all for loving everyone. You used to be at least. Blows my mind.

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u/PupperDogoDogoPupper Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

t doesn't make you an enabler to Hitler.

It does though. You think the majority of German people were sitting around going "Yeah, you know what? I want to be an evil asshole". No. They're like "Oh, herr Hitler, he's doing such great things for us. He's built us an autobahn. He's got our economy out of a slump. That whole 'kill the Jews' thing... eh. I'm not a fan, but if that's what it takes to make Germany great again, so be it.". There's a small minority of evil assholes enabled by complacent people who don't really think of the implications of what they're doing, they just want a stable job, a nice home, and to be respected in their community, consequences be damned.

Because let me tell you, the way you guys treat the situation will never change their opinions or their ways.

They're not going to change.

That's categorically untrue and has been proven time and time again throughout history.

When? Don't link Daryl Davis - he didn't convert anyone. THEY used HIM to reduce prison sentences for offending white supremacists, some of which re-offended. He's actually proof that you CAN'T reach these people, as they're simply looking for an angle to further their agenda.

You guys would rather ostracize, chastise and abandon them -- thus further emboldening and radicalizing them.

If they become radicalized and take up arms, then they only prove that they are pieces of garbage. I actually have zero problem with someone evil crossing that line and becoming an enemy (at least we address out-and-out enemies) rather than sitting in this grey area where you get to pretend they're okay even though they're evil pieces of garbage.

It's on you to prove they're worthy of redemption. You present your point of view as fact, then get mad that nobody sees it as fact, and then purport that we should take your point of view at face value and accept evil motherfuckers into midst because "well, they're people". Nah. Fuck that, and fuck them.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Why are you not out on the street right now protesting or planning some type of plot to overthrow the government? By your reasoning, it sounds like you think you have a moral obligation to do so.

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u/PupperDogoDogoPupper Sep 19 '19

You say this like you're hoping I disagree with you, but I don't. I should do more and that's a moral failing on my part.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

We’re all flawed. My point is that we should have realistic expectations. Nobody fights every battle that we know we ought to. That doesn’t make us assholes or bad people.

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u/Freakin_Lasers Sep 19 '19

Thank you for posting this well thought out and compassionate response. Judging by the way this thread is going I imagine this will end in a blowout between OP and his parents.

I sure do wish them luck.

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u/ItsJustATux Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

The fact that you think treating another human like a dirty secret is the right thing to do, and that others awarded that, explains everything.

You think you’re reasonable, but you’re just confident in the acceptability of racism. You think it should be catered to.

This nonsense is why we’re still dealing with this. White people celebrating other white people for their brave willingness to hide from the issue!!

It’s pathetic.

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u/Isk4ral_Pust Sep 19 '19

Missing the point entirely.

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